Steve Davies announces his homosexuality.

Aaron said:
It isn't that important but it is in terms of social normalisation and acceptance, which is very important. People always talk about it being 'irrelevant' and all that nonsense, but it's very relevant and positive.

If he were to announce his engagement or bring his wife along to watch him during the game, would the response be 'He's playing cricket not fecking!!!!'

..I suspect not. As homosexuality becomes more and more tolerated and acceptable, these little things the public ignore about others in the public eye and take for granted, will be noticed and will be commented on because they're different.

If he announced his engagement to a girlfriend, I'm sure whilst people who say they don't give a toss about him coming out would not have cared about an engagement announcement, they equally probably wouldn't have seen fit to comment as to how little they care about it and how irrelevant to them it is.

I think there's a huge difference alone just there.
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Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't give a stuff whether he's shagging men, women or both. And I couldn't care less whether he's getting married or tying the knot in a civil partnership. It literally adds nothing to my life. Nor would it if we were dealing with a footballer. If he felt that he needed to tell his team mates, then fair fecks to him. Don't really see why he needed to tell all of us though.

My work colleagues have no idea whether I'm gay, straight or bisexual because I never talk about that stuff there. Work's work.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's living a lie.

How would you feel if you could never bring your wife/girlfriend along to any social events you attend through work? Or introduce her to any of your colleagues? Or even mention her in passing?

Every time homosexuality is discussed, people seem to obsess about the actual act of having sex and try to argue that sex is a private act, so sexuality should also be kept private. Funnily enough, this same line of reasoning is never used when heterosexual people are open and honest about the fact they have a partner of the opposite sex.

Your choice of partner has a far bigger role in your public and personal life than whatever goes in in the privacy of your own bedroom.
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It depends if you mix your working and your private life, I guess. Sure, it must be an arse ache (!) for him if they're regularly going out together as a group of players with WAGs. But for the vast majority of people, personal relationships never intersperse with work life. In that context, it's not necessary to "come out". That's not living a lie, that's just keeping your private life private.
 
Feed Me said:
It depends if you mix your working and your private life, I guess. Sure, it must be an arse ache (!) for him if they're regularly going out together as a group of players with WAGs. But for the vast majority of people, personal relationships never intersperse with work life. In that context, it's not necessary to "come out". That's not living a lie, that's just keeping your private life private.
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These are sportsmen, they spen weeks living in the same hotels as each other, that means they bond as a group, in this case he has just spent the best part of 4 months staying in the same hotels as his teammates, with in this case that team being quite close-knit, so there is discrepancy as teammates are often very good friends to them due to the amount of time they spend together.
 
Feed Me said:
My work colleagues have no idea whether I'm gay, straight or bisexual because I never talk about that stuff there. Work's work.
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So you've never once mentioned a girl you fancy? a girl you've gone out with, a girl whose fit? anything about any previous relationships or anything to do with your life that's in anyway involved with your relationships or lifestyle even casually to anyone you've ever worked with?....Don't believe you

Feed Me said:
It depends if you mix your working and your private life, I guess. Sure, it must be an arse ache (!) for him if they're regularly going out together as a group of players with WAGs. But for the vast majority of people, personal relationships never intersperse with work life. In that context, it's not necessary to "come out". That's not living a lie, that's just keeping your private life private.
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Utter bollocks mate. Just because you can't grasp that having to conduct your personal life like it's an illicit affair you can't mention at all times, and that coming out publically will not only lift that burden but also make the climate easier for others who would like to do the same but are scared of the consequences, doesn't mean those in that unfortunate situation should have to in anyway consider how bothered you are with their revelations.

As Pogue an Aaron have hinted at, you take for granted being straight and all this "well I don't see why they need to tell anyone or why I have to know about it" is particularly narrow minded IMO....It's almost a slightly PCer way of saying "keep it behind closed doors just don't let me know it goes on"...Why the feck should they?
 
phelans shorts said:
These are sportsmen, they spen weeks living in the same hotels as each other, that means they bond as a group, in this case he has just spent the best part of 4 months staying in the same hotels as his teammates, with in this case that team being quite close-knit, so there is discrepancy as teammates are often very good friends to them due to the amount of time they spend together.
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That's cool - I respect his decision to tell his team mates. Not sure if it needed the massive two media interviews though.
 
It's also particularly important that gay people come out in sport as proliferation is the only way to true acceptance. There are presumably quite a few people who are closeted because they fear the rejection their coming out would bring about, so making it more common, more well known and more accepted is a worthwhile and rightfully celebrated thing. Eventually it won't be an issue at all, but for that to happen we have to go through a period of it being big news first. Black footballers are now fully accepted in English football (Big Ron aside) but that didn't mean the first black players weren't a big deal. They were. They were trailblazers who took a shit load of offence so that we could get to this point now. Proliferation and awareness. It's significant in the accepted normality of anything.
 
Mockney said:
So you've never once mentioned a girl you fancy? a girl you've gone out with, a girl whose fit? anything about any previous relationships or anything to do with your life that's in anyway involved with your relationships or lifestyle even casually to anyone you've ever worked with?....Don't believe you



Utter bollocks mate. Just because you can't grasp that having to conduct your personal life like it's an illicit affair you can't mention at all times, and that coming out publically will not only lift that burden but also make the climate easier for others who would like to do the same but are scared of the consequences, doesn't mean those in that unfortunate situation should have to in anyway consider how bothered you are with their revelations.

As Pogue an Aaron have hinted at, you take for granted being straight and all this "well I don't see why they need to tell anyone or why I have to know about it" is particularly narrow minded IMO....It's almost a slightly PCer way of saying "keep it behind closed doors just don't let me know it goes on"...Why the feck should they?
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Not once did I say that you have to conduct your personal relationships as though they were seedy affairs.

It seems that you're an open person, who will happily discuss that sort of thing with work colleagues, and there is nothing wrong with that. But you need to appreciate that others aren't so open with their private lives and that is their prerogative. I resent being told that I conduct my private life as though it's illicit just because I don't go around broadcasting it.

I was being facetious in my original point, but I was trying to get across the point that personally I feel no compulsion to tell anyone about my private life.

I'm not narrow minded just because I don't want to know about his homosexual private life. I don't give a stuff about the behind closed doors lives of heterosexual sportsmen either. I don't watch them compete for these reasons.

As I've said, fair enough that he told his team mates and friends, if he felt that was necessary. It adds nothing to our lives though and it's a sad state of affairs that he feels that he needs to come out or make it public. If he's happy with his life, then get on with it, I say. No need for public declarations.
 
phelans shorts said:
What happens when the news of the world get pictures of him and his boyfriend/partner and basically blackmail him? That would do no one any favours.
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Well the timelines are interesting. He told his team mates before the Ashes, so you can bet your bottom dollar that someone in the media would have had an inkling, and yet they reported nothing on the matter.

The media are a set of cnuts, but I don't think ours are that bad when it comes to things like outing people...
 
Feed Me said:
But you need to appreciate that others aren't so open with their private lives and that is their prerogative. I resent being told that I conduct my private life as though it's illicit just because I don't go around broadcasting it.
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Well exactly. And you need to appreciate that others aren't so closed about it, and may want everyone to know so that it feel less of a burden, or for whatever reasons they have. It's not hurting anyone is it? And they might resent being told to conduct it in private just cos you aren't interested. Being in the public eye he presumably feels it'll save him years of being asked why he hasn't got a girlfriend or something.

I actually agree with you to a point. Broadcasting isn't needed in day to day life. You aren't introduced to gay people with the suffix "this is my mate Tom, he's gay"..but sport is an exception. It's the last bastion of percieved homophobia. Max Clifford's gone on record as saying he's personally told a number of footballers to not come out or it would ruin their careers. This opinion needs to be challenged.

Fair enough you don't find it interesting, but clearly it IS a big deal, as we can count the amount of people who've felt comfortable enough to come out on one hand. I personally think it's a significant thing to do. And worthwhile being celebrated precisely because it needs to happen for us to get to that point where it isn't a big deal anymore. It's the way the World works, though it's very hard for me as a non-famous straight man to lecture famous gays on why they should come out, so all I can really do is quietly hope and rant on the internet.
 
I do think Clifford is right to tell his clients that its "career suicide" really, especially considering the clients he represents, since you only sign with him if you are most likely about or already are a megastar....you'd lose your shirt sales in no times, EA wouldn't put you on the cover of Fifa/NBA/Madden whatever.

At the end of the day, what percentage of gay men that you know care about follow sports? Not remotely enough to make up the money they'd lose from straight people who are semi-homophobic or worse.
 
I couldn't agree less with everything you've said Zen. A Gay footballer coming out would get loads of endorsements, just by the media frenzy it would create. You are of course also assuming he'd be of a high enough caliber to have multi-million pound contracts and be on the cover of Fifa, rather than - as it more likely - part of the 95% of top flight sportsmen who aren't, or don't. Furthermore assuming that people would just stop buying shirts (the majority of which I would assume are bought by kids anyway, not middle aged homophobes) is off the mark IMO, and again seems to naturally assume they'd be a Rooney or a Beckham rather than Danny Murphy or a Clint Dempsey.

I agree completely with Samuel that Max Clifford is causing more harm than good.

As for gays not liking sports, well that's a huge assumption to make, and a very wrong one too I'd wager. And even if it was, some of it could be to do with sport's heavily hetro (100% so in football's case) visage. Something that could change, or be helped to change by more people coming out.
 
Well by that I mean people who'd be like....I don't know, they wouldn't trash the player and still support him, but just be too sceptical to buy his shirt and stuff, because that's probably where you'd lose the most money most likely, not of being a straight up homophobe, just because they wouldn't want friends in school being like "lol u got gay guys name on your shirt"
 
I don't think most players lose or gain much money from their name being sold or not sold on shirts anyway. Perhaps it might disuade certain people from buying certain merchandise, but I'd be sure they're recoup anything lost in other areas. Gareth Thomas says in that programme that the phone never stopped ringing for endorsements when he came out..
 
Yeah, but that's Gareth Thomas.....is he signed with someone like Max Clifford? He's probably bigger now, because he wasn't huge in the first place. For smaller stars, coming out will do that, because it'll bring them attention, and even more so in these early stages while no big names are there.

And when I said I agree with Max Clifford....yes I did mean the likes of Beckham or Rooney coming out rather than Dempsay or Murphy, I don't really know who Clifford represents, but i'd assume it'd be guys of that superstar calibre and not many of the Murphy calibre, if those players agents are against them coming out, then I probably wouldn't agree with them so much, since there wouldn't be as much to lose, and just like in Thomas' case, probably more to gain.

I also didn't say gays didn't like sports, just that the percentage of them that do like sports is lower than the percentage of the straight male that do, and from my point of view, it's hugely lopsided, I wouldn't it's that lopsided generally though, but its still probably be a big difference.
 
But what would people like Beckham or Rooney "lose" from coming out? They're already massive stars with supreme wealth. The only people who would lose (that I can imagine at any rate) would be the lower tier of players, who might feel it stops them from reaching that next level. This is what Clifford said...

"To my knowledge there is only one top-flight professional gay footballer who came out - Justin Fashanu. He ended up committing suicide. I have been advising a top premiership star who is bisexual. If it came out that he had gay tendencies, his career would be over in two minutes. Should it be? No, but if you go on the terraces and hear the way fans are, and also, that kind of general attitude that goes with football, it’s almost like going back to the dark ages.”

I think it's complete bollocks. For one Fashanu killed himself over assault charges 8 years after he came out and played on for 7 years so linking it so obviously to football is unfair. Secondly he's claiming his career would be over. "in 2 seconds." I think it's more Clifford whose steeped in the dark ages. Such is the feeling these days that if anyone gave out players serious grief they'd be the ones whose career would be over.
 
Mockney said:
But what would people like Beckham or Rooney "lose" from coming out? They're already massive stars with supreme wealth. The only people who would lose (that I can imagine at any rate) would be the lower tier of players, who might feel it stops them from reaching that next level. This is what Clifford said...

"To my knowledge there is only one top-flight professional gay footballer who came out - Justin Fashanu. He ended up committing suicide. I have been advising a top premiership star who is bisexual. If it came out that he had gay tendencies, his career would be over in two minutes. Should it be? No, but if you go on the terraces and hear the way fans are, and also, that kind of general attitude that goes with football, it’s almost like going back to the dark ages.”

I think it's complete bollocks. For one Fashanu killed himself over assault charges 8 years after he came out and played on for 7 years so linking it so obviously to football is unfair. Secondly he's claiming his career would be over. "in 2 seconds." I think it's more Clifford whose steeped in the dark ages. Such is the feeling these days that if anyone gave out players serious grief they'd be the ones whose career would be over.
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Sadly Clifford seems to consider people's 'careers' to be those few years when they're at their peak in terms of marketability. The gimp.

But there's no way it would ruin their careers. They might be slightly less marketable in traditional terms but I guarantee if they had a reasonably attractive footballer come out he'd make the difference and more in an attempt to win the 'pink pound'. There are scores of companies who'd be only too happy to confirm their lack of prejudices by publicly endorsing the first openly gay footballer in the modern game.
 
Precisely. Obviously if it's Luke Chadwick that might count against him, but then being Luke Chadwick counts against him anyway on a daily basis. I can't imagine an example that could possibly result in the "end of their career"...It's a ludicrous proposition
 
Davis. Steve Davis.

There is no confusion. Can people not spell?

Anyways, good for the lad. It's still a little sad that people feel they have to announce this sort of stuff publicly. Though, I guess the more people who out themselves, the less media attention future people doing similar will garner.

Good for him. I hope this helps others.

Still don't think we'll see anything in football for some time, mind.
 
This has been bottled up for years, I went to school with him and used to see him out and about quite a bit until he moved away a couple of years ago. He had a couple of experiences with people I know but at the time was obviously very uncomfortable with the whole situation. It's good that he's finally gained the confidence to actually come out now. It really shouldn't be such a big deal, but you do get sucked in to making it a bigger issue than it has any right to be.
 
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