I wouldn't say that's the definition of an AT great worldscorer. If it is, it's a narrow field?
Yes, it is basically
Messi (53-73-60), average of 62
Cristiano (53-60-55), average of 56
Gerd Muller (50-67-43), average of 56
Puskas (47-44-40), average of 43
Heynckes (48-40-42), average of 43
That is if you narrow the field to players from the top 4 leagues and to club football only
Of course you have the Brazilians like Pele, Zico etc. and we know they are great just like the Brazilian league was great back then. I just can't compare them because I have no idea about "regional league Rio de Janeiro" or whatever.
Basically this is what I would call "treble winning goalscoring" because you don't only need to be very consistent, you need to score consistently and win consistently (to get far in competitions to have more matches) and you can only reach those numbers if you excell in every competition there is and don't take your breaks. It is no coincidence that Messi and Cristiano played in the most dominant squads of this century, Puskas played in the most successfull club side ever and Muller and Heynckes were part of the greatest ever Bayern side and the greatest ever Gladbach side, which are the two greatest German sides ever. Basically everything needs to come together perfectly to have a chance at those numbers and it happened in those exceptional circumstances, which should not diminish the performances of the goalscorers, otherwise you are reaching into arguments like "Messi is only great because of Xaviesta". They all had an insane supporting cast, but other players with great supporting casts never reached those heights.
@Don Alfredo
I haven’t checked brwnds post but their starting positions on that list are just the beginning of the story. The next chapter is “who are they up against” and in the case of this game, my players get elevated and yours don’t. There’s an argument to be made that out of your front 4 and my defenders, the two best players belong on our team (KHS and Shesternyov)
When you flip that, it’s not even up for debate that batistuta and Neymar are the clear 1-2 in that particular battle. Virgil Van dijk doesn’t have a 3 year peak at the top level to judge him on but I can understand the recency bias. But partnered with the weakest player in the draft and someone who gets placed behind Maicon In most people’s greatest Brazilian right backs list, there’s just such a huge gap in quality. I expect Neymar to taunt your right side of defence and batistuta to show VVD who’s boss.
As for Veron, you can see for yourself what Graeme Souness appears to value in a player and based on what he says about pogba, there is just not way he would have enjoyed playing against Veron. He’s physical, his technique is unreal and during his time in serie A he was unquestionably one of the top midfielders in the world. He’s also got batistuta ahead of him which yielded many a nice passage of play when they linked up for Argentina.
As for some of your players, would like to know more about Heynckes, and your usage of del Piero is hard for me to picture because it’s not a system he was really part of in his career, despite obviously having the skill set for it.
I think you are really overreaching with Neymar here. If you have George Best there, I would hold my hand up and say Jorginho is no match for him, but Neymar is not really at the top of "greatest winger/wing forward ever" list, more like place 30 or something.
With Virgil Van Dijk, it would not be true to say his peak just started in 2018. There was a reason Liverpool paid big bucks for him. This is a thread on the caf on him in January 2017
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/virgil-van-dijk-performances.425476/
Van Dijk is miles ahead of Smalling. I don't think there is a single aspect of football Smalling is better at than Van Dijk.
Look at the way he controls the ball and dictates the game.
He'd fit in at a Barca, a Madrid. I'd love us to go after Van Dijk, him and Bailly would be monstrous. It's annoying, as much like Wanyama before him, he was an obvious candidate for a big team when he was at Celtic. Dembele is the same at the moment.
Also this video against City in 16/17
Basically he was not rated highly by the masses because he played at a small club, same thing happened to Firmino and Mane. They sign for Liverpool and everyone thinks Klopp makes them great (true with Salah), but Mane was already brilliant at Southampton and Firmino was brilliant at Hoffenheim, in 13/14 he scored 22 and assisted 16 in all competitions. Van Dijk won Southampton's player of the season award in 15/16 in front of Mane for example.
I really like his chances against any kind of physical forward, have never seen him bullied in the air or something like that. Also he plays next to De Ligt and some shit on him, but playing next to De Ligt actually helps Van Dijk's performance because he is a much better partner than fecking Lovren.
@Don Alfredo
What’s the story with fiorentina being the biggest club on dungarees resume?
I can't say I know the whole truth, I know that he was great at Stuttgart for example and you have other Brazilians who never played at better clubs in Europe like Mauro Silva only at Depor, Zico only at Udinese...
