Stars and Reserves Draft QF: Invictus / Jim Beam vs green_smiley - Finished 5:6

[Jim Beam]

Not sure what you are implying. It is like saying footballers will never be able play a certain tactics because they have never played it before

The players in my team has all the traits to make the tactics work. Simple as that

Jugovic doesn't have the traits to play in that system, your FB can't provide constant overloads because they will be pinned back by our wingers most of the time.
I reacted because you didn't just stay by your claim to play high-press, but now decided to throw a bit of total football in it which I'm not sure they can execute at all.

Before that, I was simply claiming that the tactics won't work because of the traits of our players and ability to resist your press while hitting you on the counter if you decided to go with almost gung-ho approach. And claim that is the last thing that would be tactically suited against our team.

 

[Jim Beam]

I could post his PES states, but I don't think you will accept it

They are also bad.

 

[Physiocrat]

They are also bad.

I wouldn't rely on them but they actually give you a good idea of their overall play especially when you understand the ladder system they use.

 

[Jim Beam]

@green_smiley have a last few questions for this high-pressing, unconventional with a touch of Bielsa and totaalvoetbal machine. Since you said that your team is tactically better prepared, while ours have more individual quality.

Just curious what is the main plan behind your press because in football every single manager has his own version (from Klopp, Bielsa, Pep, Simeone, Heynckes and so on).

To successfully implement the tactic you have to naturally try to avoid being exposed (something I already pointed out it can't be done with characteristics of our team and it will be impossible to shut them down by this way).

So, few questions:

Will you ignore the ball as a reference point and collectively move towards the space where the ball will arrive trying to block the passing lines (setting pressing traps)? Or will you move towards the ball as the reference point?
What will be your pressing triggers as every team that press has them? (Simeone forces the ball in wide areas for example and use the side-line as an extra defender in which moment he fanatically press with his players)
Will you use rigid-man or space-oriented marking? You said Lerby will closely marked Bozsik so I presume it is a rigid-man marking for him (which is suicidal imo not only because Bozsik has the skill to avoid it, but Albert can drop deep to pick the ball) What about the rest of the team? Would like to hear the answer to this one.
Will you press intensely with most of your players (e.g. Klopp) or just one or two while the rest of them will man-mark our players (e.g. Heynckes)?
Will you press high up the field and towards the center or from the midfield towards the flanks?

My point is that you basically throw the idea of pressing all over the field which no one can do it, called it better tactically prepared team and then as it wasn't enough also throw in a bit of totaalvoetbal as icing on the cake.

 

[Jim Beam]

I wouldn't rely on them but they actually give you a good idea of their overall play especially when you understand the ladder system they use.

I generally agree with you and in this case, they reflect Jugovic quite fairly. Good passer, but the defensive part of his game was far from his strongest side. And he has to mostly deal with Albert here.

But, somehow, Puyol is the problem at RB.

 

[Jim Beam]

Already intruduced most important bits about Sívori and Albert. Here is one more tribute, for the Ballon d'Or number 3 in our attack.

There is only one … Hristo Stoichkov

Spoiler

The 90s were the most divisive decade in Bulgaria’s modern history.

Defined by corruption, over-inflation and makeshift-politics, it was a time when you were given food coupons, but the food was never enough. It was a time when even if you had money, there was nothing in the shops for you to buy.

People queued for a loaf a bread for an entire day, whilst angry sign-brandishing Bulgarians were spilled out on the streets of the country in protest of the sacrifices they were forced to make in the name of current reforms.

I remember very little of this.

But somewhere in the misty cloud of my childhood memories sits the summer of 1994. It was a couple of weeks after my fifth birthday and I was living in Sofia with my family. Bulgaria was going through a difficult political, economic and social transition and … the World Cup was on.

USA ‘94 gave my entire nation a reason to unite and a chance to be happy. It gave us purpose to believe that we will all live a better life one day.

And most of all, it gave us our very own national hero: Hristo Stoichkov.

The Raging Bull, The Dagger (Камата), or The Gunslinger (El Pistolero), Hristo (Chris in English) Stoichkov was a star way before my five-year-old self joined thousands in chanting his name on the streets of Sofia.

Born in 1966 in Bulgaria’s second largest city, Plovdiv, Hristo’s footballing career started in his hometown club, Maritsa Plovdiv at age 11.

In 1982, he moved to Hebros in the neighboring town of Harmanli, where he scored 14 goals in Bulgaria’s third league.

At age 19 and already known for his shocking temper and gigantic ego (Zlatan ain’t got nothing on him), Stoichkov was banned from playing at CSKA in his first season at the club.

During the 1985 Bulgarian Cup Final between CSKA and Levski (subjectively: Sofia’s best team), Stoichkov (and another five players) got in to a massive fight and he was hit with a lifelong ban. While this may seem draconian to us, it was a standard punishment under the Soviet Union and it was later reduced to a year-long suspension.

“There are only two Christs … and the other one is in heaven.”

Fast forward four years, Stoichkov is still in CSKA and has been named top goalscorer in Europe for the 1989/90 season, receiving the European Golden Shoe (now Golden Boot) for his 38 goals in 30 league games.

In another part of Europe, far far away from Sofia, in 1990 Johan Cruyff was wrapping up his second (and unsuccessful) season as manager of Barcelona. Vultures were circling around his position, sceptical of whether or not he could make a difference at the club. With Barça having won only three LaLiga trophies between 1960 and 1989, it was now or never for Cruyff as boss at Camp Nou.

“In Barcelona we play attacking and aggressive football,” Cruyff explained. “That’s because everyone around the team has an aggressive and offensive attitude. If there are star players who are not aggressive, how can you have an aggressive team? Impossible.”

Doesn’t this sound like a job for one of Europe’s most aggressive players at the time? Cruyff signed Stoichkov in the summer of 1990.

The Dutchman believed in a conflict model for team building and Stoichkov was the perfect bad-ass base on which his Dream Team could stand on.

El Pistolero did not take long to make his LaLiga mark. In his first ever Clásico in the Spanish Super Cup, he stamped on the linesman’s foot and received a lengthy ban.

Classic Hristo.

Despite this early encounter Cruyff believed in the balance of Stoichkov’s technical brilliance and pure lunacy.

“Before Stoichkov came, we had a team of very nice people. But you can’t just have a team of very nice people,” Cruyff said following Stoichkov’s suspension. “You need someone like Stoichkov who is aggressive in a positive way. He goes for the ball and when he gets the ball he shoots at goal.

“There are other players who might wait and see if there is a more beautiful way of doing it, or maybe pass it but he just went ahead and hit it in.”

Stoichkov shot from the hips and had a brutal left foot that nobody knew how to deal with. He was a modern forward before modern forwards were able to play in any position across the attacking line.

Whether he was moving in from the wings or he was playing in a more traditional centre-forward position, the Bulgarian international had effectiveness and versatility like no other.

And the Barcelona boss couldn’t get enough of it.

Hristo allowed Cruyff to create a tactical set-up, which both needed and benefitted from Stoichkov’s ability to be everywhere.

Interchanging positions between team-mates was a model that Cruyff himself had a hand in establishing during the 1970s and remains a part of Barça’s DNA to this day.

Barcelona became LaLiga champions in 1990/91, and Stoichkov’s 20 goals in his first season at the club made that feat reality.

The following season was to be the summit of Cruyff’s Dream Team. They defended their LaLiga title, won the Spanish Super Cup, and their first ever European Cup.

Stoichkov was in the heart of it all. Cruyff played him up front with Michael Laudrup right behind him. The sensational season saw Stoichkov net 22 goals in all competitions.

Then came the 1993/94 season, which brought Romário to Barcelona and all hell broke lose. Stoichkov and him quickly asserted themselves as the most feared attacking duo on the planet.

Both outstanding during the summer’s World Cup; Romário was Brazil’s best player and Stoichkov was USA 94’ top goalscorer. Together they were unstoppable.

“We just couldn’t handle the speed of Stoichkov and Romario,” Alex Ferguson said after Barça thrashed Manchester United 4-0 on 2 November, 1994. “The suddenness with which they attacked was a new experience.”

It takes something monstrous to leave Fergie shocked. Romário and Stoichkov created arguably the best partnership Barcelona had ever seen and certainly the most outrageous both on and off the pitch.

“They constantly battled to see who would get more goals,” remembers ex-Barcelona director Josep María Minguella, who represented both players.

Both of them were furious when they were excluded from Cruyff’s starting XI. Outspoken, thundering, emotional, “when Stoichkov was on the bench,” one team-mate recalls, “he could start a fight with his own shadow. And when Hristo’s angry, he’s dangerous.”

“Hristo was peculiar,” says Minguella, whilst another team-mate described him simply as “a bit dense”.

But sadly it was not to last. Two months after the Man United hammering Romário was gone. Six months after that, so too had Stoichkov. Then Andoni Zubizarreta. Then Laudrup. Then Cruyff.

The trophies went, too, and it was three years before Barcelona won anything again.

The fact that they only played for one year is almost unbelievable, but they managed to become true Camp Nou legends in those 12 months.

Each going their own way, never to speak again, Stoichkov and Romário’s break-up will always loom as the dagger that stabbed the Dream Team in an irremediable way.

“Before Stoichkov came, we had a team of very nice people. But you can’t just have a team of very nice people,” Cruyff said “You need someone like Stoichkov who is aggressive in a positive way. He goes for the ball and when he gets the ball he shoots at goal.

“There are other players who might wait and see if there is a more beautiful way of doing it, or maybe pass it but he just went ahead and hit it in.”

Stoichkov shot from the hips and had a brutal left foot that nobody knew how to deal with. He was a modern forward before modern forwards were able to play in any position across the attacking line.
Whether he was moving in from the wings or he was playing in a more traditional centre-forward position, the Bulgarian international had effectiveness and versatility like no other.

And the Barcelona boss couldn’t get enough of it.

Hristo allowed Cruyff to create a tactical set-up, which both needed and benefitted from Stoichkov’s ability to be everywhere.

Interchanging positions between team-mates was a model that Cruyff himself had a hand in establishing during the 1970s and remains a part of Barça’s DNA to this day.

Not sure how much I will be able to comment until the end, so see you at the finishing line and best of luck GS.

 

[green_smiley]

I might be away tonight so will make few last posts now. Don't know the score, but regardless, you have a very good team @Jim Beam , but need some improvement in defense. I think you would agree with that

 

[green_smiley]

I generally agree with you and in this case, they reflect Jugovic quite fairly. Good passer, but the defensive part of his game was far from his strongest side. And he has to mostly deal with Albert here.

But, somehow, Puyol is the problem at RB.

It may not be a fair reflection, but from available video compilation, Jugovic has very great work rate and aggressiveness, so I would imagine he would use that trait to win possession back when your team has the ball

If it is 1v1 between Jugovic and Albert with enough space, then it is fair to say that Albert will have a clear upperhand

But with pressing system, the space is reduced significant, making it harder for Albert to maneuvered along, with the likes of Blankenburg and Briegel in close proximity as well

 

[green_smiley]

@green_smiley have a last few questions for this high-pressing, unconventional with a touch of Bielsa and totaalvoetbal machine. Since you said that your team is tactically better prepared, while ours have more individual quality.

Just curious what is the main plan behind your press because in football every single manager has his own version (from Klopp, Bielsa, Pep, Simeone, Heynckes and so on).

To successfully implement the tactic you have to naturally try to avoid being exposed (something I already pointed out it can't be done with characteristics of our team and it will be impossible to shut them down by this way).

So, few questions:

Will you ignore the ball as a reference point and collectively move towards the space where the ball will arrive trying to block the passing lines (setting pressing traps)? Or will you move towards the ball as the reference point?
What will be your pressing triggers as every team that press has them? (Simeone forces the ball in wide areas for example and use the side-line as an extra defender in which moment he fanatically press with his players)
Will you use rigid-man or space-oriented marking? You said Lerby will closely marked Bozsik so I presume it is a rigid-man marking for him (which is suicidal imo not only because Bozsik has the skill to avoid it, but Albert can drop deep to pick the ball) What about the rest of the team? Would like to hear the answer to this one.
Will you press intensely with most of your players (e.g. Klopp) or just one or two while the rest of them will man-mark our players (e.g. Heynckes)?
Will you press high up the field and towards the center or from the midfield towards the flanks?

My point is that you basically throw the idea of pressing all over the field which no one can do it, called it better tactically prepared team and then as it wasn't enough also throw in a bit of totaalvoetbal as icing on the cake.

Obviously, this is based on your belief that your team is good enough to overcome whatever setup that I have, which I disagree of course
As mentioned, the fluidity in my attack especially the front-two is not something revolutionary. It is not difficult to foresee how Keegan and Dalglish can rotate and switch attacking focus

It is not unconventional to have pressing tactics either. I thought it is something common, but you make it a tad complicated

 

[Jim Beam]

It may not be a fair reflection, but from available video compilation, Jugovic has very great work rate and aggressiveness, so I would imagine he would use that trait to win possession back when your team has the ball

If it is 1v1 between Jugovic and Albert with enough space, then it is fair to say that Albert will have a clear upperhand

But with pressing system, the space is reduced significant, making it harder for Albert to maneuvered along, with the likes of Blankenburg and Briegel in close proximity as well

There is a reason why he changed the clubs every year or two after Sampdoria and there is a reason he played in the national team on the wing for most of his career.

Jugovic can't close down Albert. It is the biggest mismatch on the pitch.

Which pressing system though? You can't close everything.

Obviously, this is based on your belief that your team is good enough to overcome whatever setup that I have, which I disagree of course
As mentioned, the fluidity in my attack especially the front-two is not something revolutionary. It is not difficult to foresee how Keegan and Dalglish can rotate and switch attacking focus

It is not unconventional to have pressing tactics either. I thought it is something common, but you make it a tad complicated

You called it unconventional in your previous post.

Btw. I wrote that post as I had a high-pressing team once here with the idea how it will work. Force the opposition to play through the flanks and close the middle of the park... Since you said that you are tactically better prepared I wanted to know more about it.
And it isn't complicated at all. You chase the ball or close the space, hound in packs or leave it to two or three players upfront while marking others. Close the middle or close the flanks and so on.
I do think of course that our team can overcome it based on reasons already explained.
Well, we are now going in circles, so I will leave it.

 

[Jim Beam]

Congrats @green_smiley. And good luck going forward!

 

[green_smiley]

Congrats @green_smiley. And good luck going forward!

Thanks. Very close result

 

[Invictus]

Good luck in the semi-final @green_smiley. That looks like a potentially draft winning team, especially with the increased Star-quota going forward.