Film Star Wars: Episode VIII

[Art Vandelay]

I have quite a few complaints about the movie:

Spoiler

1. There was too many tone shifts throughout scenes, comedy (all be it sometimes being funny) was forced and the tension was lost.
2. Leia Poppins just visually looked weird.
3. Luke's character is betrayed, I don't feel its in him to contemplate killing his sisters son when he saw the good in Darth Vader when not even Yoda could.
4. Snoke who was built up to be this all powerful being gets such a unsatisfactory death. We never get any of his backstory.
5. I don't think Daisy Ridley is a great actress, said this about the first movie too.
6. Like Force Awakens, some parts of the movie felt like re-writes of the original trilogy (Luke [Obi-Wan] stalling Kylo-Ren [Darth Vader] so his friends can get away).
7. What was the point of Captain Phasma? She looks awesome, they just did nothing with here. Also, the Maz Kanata scene was badly done.
8. Thought they wasted Benicio del Toro if I'm honest.
9. How does Luke die? It's never explained. Why kill him anyway?
10. Some scenes had too much CGI - the casino scene for one.

Overall I really liked it and thought it was what Star Wars needed after the prequels made it all about the Skywalkers and then made the galaxy feel tiny and too connected. I agree with some of your points, mainly 2, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

Spoiler

3. Luke saw all the evil that Vader did before he turned him back to light happening again with Kylo and had a moment of panic before stopping himself. He was already having doubts about the Jedi I think and seemed isolated and depressed. It showed how close to the edge he was that he even thought about it.

9. He spent everything he had left projecting himself through the Force millions of miles across the galaxy. He burned himself out in one last show of how powerful he was. They had to take him out because he's too powerful a character, he'd wipe the floor with Kylo. Same problem the books often had. Plus he's almost certainly going to be a Force ghost from now on. Keeps him around and removes his power from the equation. It was the right thing to do for him. He saved Leia and the rebellion without firing a single shot or killing anyone and left Kylo alive with the hope he can be redeemed later. Which was always his way.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Like some of the aspects they did with this one eg. Rey not a Skywalker, but disappointed with the rest, specifically the one that deals with how specific charactersss are being portrayed and given boring storyline. Not looking forward to the next supposedly final third one, after this dross of a second. Still plan to watch it though but with minimal expectations. The first one is fine.

 

[RedSky]

@Sigma - watch below in regards to your point #3.

 

[Sigma]

@Sigma - watch below in regards to your point #3.

That's a good point to be fair.

 

[Van Piorsing]

@Sigma - watch below in regards to your point #3.

Spot on.

Luke is really a small problem of The Last Jedi. There are bigger ones while his character almost saved the movie entirely from being just another typical loud blockbuster sci-fi.

 

[Cheesy]

Yeah, the Luke/Kylo aspect of it and how he contributed to his villainy was probably the most interesting aspect of the film.

 

[Raees]

Halfway through this film and just want to say it is worse than the prequel trilogy. Overhyped tripe so far. I actually miss Hayden Christensen's Anakin its that bad.

 

[VidaRed]

Halfway through this film and just want to say it is worse than the prequel trilogy. Overhyped tripe so far. I actually miss Hayden Christensen's Anakin its that bad.

I bet that after watching the second half your rating would have dipped further ?

 

[Jonno]

Spoiler: This for me made me lose faith completely in the writing

The death of Snoke. The way they built him up in the last film was pretty good, I wanted some serious momentum built for this guy, and tonnes of back-story, then they just killed him off in such a poor way. He's supposed to be this outrageously powerful leader and he can't handle a basis attack on him. Strange, very strange.

 

[SmashedHombre]

Overall I really liked it and thought it was what Star Wars needed after the prequels made it all about the Skywalkers and then made the galaxy feel tiny and too connected. I agree with some of your points, mainly 2, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

Spoiler

3. Luke saw all the evil that Vader did before he turned him back to light happening again with Kylo and had a moment of panic before stopping himself. He was already having doubts about the Jedi I think and seemed isolated and depressed. It showed how close to the edge he was that he even thought about it.

9. He spent everything he had left projecting himself through the Force millions of miles across the galaxy. He burned himself out in one last show of how powerful he was. They had to take him out because he's too powerful a character, he'd wipe the floor with Kylo. Same problem the books often had. Plus he's almost certainly going to be a Force ghost from now on. Keeps him around and removes his power from the equation. It was the right thing to do for him. He saved Leia and the rebellion without firing a single shot or killing anyone and left Kylo alive with the hope he can be redeemed later. Which was always his way.

Kylo is far, far stronger than Luke in the force, isn't he? Didn't Luke say that himself? With Rey being even stronger than Kylo.

Though honestly it just feels like they're going all comic book with it- let's just make the characters stronger and stronger for no real reason.

Could be wrong, of course. I've never been a huge fan of Star Wars. I think the world (galaxy) that Lucas created deserves far better writing. The potential of Star Wars is limitless, yet the films are so uncreative.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Kylo is far, far stronger than Luke in the force, isn't he? Didn't Luke say that himself? With Rey being even stronger than Kylo.

Though honestly it just feels like they're going all comic book with it- let's just make the characters stronger and stronger for no real reason.

Could be wrong, of course. I've never been a huge fan of Star Wars. I think the world (galaxy) that Lucas created deserves far better writing. The potential of Star Wars is limitless, yet the films are so uncreative.

I'm not actually sure. I was always under the impression Luke was the most powerful Force user ever. I think I may have been going off the assumption that Kylo was less powerful because it would be kind of stupid if they keep bringing in more powerful users than Luke.

 

[caid]

I dont think they have a score out of a 100.
They're both capable of doing mad junk.

 

[SmashedHombre]

I dont think they have a score out of a 100.

They do though. They're called midi-chlorians and they're stupid.

I'm not actually sure. I was always under the impression Luke was the most powerful Force user ever. I think I may have been going off the assumption that Kylo was less powerful because it would be kind of stupid if they keep bringing in more powerful users than Luke.

"A key moment in The Last Jedi involves Luke claiming to have only seen raw power like Rey's once before, which was when he attempted to train Kylo" http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/04/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rey-luke-jedi-powers-strength/

So Kylo and Rey are both more powerful than Vader, Luke, Yoda et al. With the assumption being that Rey is the stronger even than Kylo. Honestly, it seems a bit daft to me and feels like they've just substituted actual character development with raw power.

 

[Ubik]

They do though. They're called midi-chlorians and they're stupid.



"A key moment in The Last Jedi involves Luke claiming to have only seen raw power like Rey's once before, which was when he attempted to train Kylo" http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/04/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rey-luke-jedi-powers-strength/

So Kylo and Rey are both more powerful than Vader, Luke, Yoda et al. With the assumption being that Rey is the stronger even than Kylo. Honestly, it seems a bit daft to me and feels like they've just substituted actual character development with raw power.

I took that "raw" literally, as in they both had untamed power that could lead anywhere (hence his fear). Folks like the Emperor, Yoda and whatnot wouldn't be described as having "raw strength".

 

[SmashedHombre]

I took that "raw" literally, as in they both had untamed power that could lead anywhere (hence his fear). Folks like the Emperor, Yoda and whatnot wouldn't be described as having "raw strength".

I think it's raw as in 'untrained'. They're not Masters, so as of yet they haven't fully honed their skills. But their potential is higher than any force user before them.

 

[legolegs]

I think it's raw as in 'untrained'. They're not Masters, so as of yet they haven't fully honed their skills. But their potential is higher than any force user before them.

How would Luke even know? I think he's just talking about the new generation as he saw these people without any training at all.
I don't think he can judge the potential of people like yoda, obi wan, Vader or the emperor.

 

[arthurka]

Anyone else watched the documentary?

The director and the Jedi..

Mark Hamill was fuming with his take on Luke.. Its a really good docu and Rian comes across as a decent guy who was really trying his best. . Though he might have been a bit stubborn with his vision .. But I thought it was very interesting..

 

[beedoubleyou]

Anyone else watched the documentary?

The director and the Jedi..

Mark Hamill was fuming with his take on Luke.. Its a really good docu and Rian comes across as a decent guy who was really trying his best. . Though he might have been a bit stubborn with his vision .. But I thought it was very interesting..

Thought it was great, as it the commentary. The documentary they did for TFA was good too. More I see TLJ movie, more I love it.

 

[simonhch]

My take on the whole force situation is that the most powerful force users to ever exist were Darth Plagueis and Yoda. Anakin Skywalker would have been next in line and potentially stronger than both, had he been able to fully realize his complete potential; but losing his arms and legs somewhat muted his ability. Even if he remained very powerful as Vader.

Luke continued the family line but could only have been more powerful than Vader because he kept all his limbs (minus hand). Now bear in mind that all the Jedi are dead. So his exposure to other force users would have been largely limited to those kids he trained. Of those Kyle and Rey are the most powerful he’s seen, but I don’t think either are anywhere near as powerful as previous greats such as Plagueis, Palpatins, Yoda, Windu, Vader etc.

I also think it’s very likely that to reach your full potential in the force takes a very long time, and a level of insight and wisdom that only comes with age. The most powerful force users we’ve seen have typically been ancient. On screen the most powerful force user we’ve seen is probably Snoke. And it seems extremely likely to me that he’s probably not dead, with that being an illusion for the sake of Kylo Ren. He is also probably Plagueis.

 

[Ubik]

I'm firmly in the "Keep Snoke Dead" camp.

 

[beedoubleyou]

My take on the whole force situation is that the most powerful force users to ever exist were Darth Plagueis and Yoda. Anakin Skywalker would have been next in line and potentially stronger than both, had he been able to fully realize his complete potential; but losing his arms and legs somewhat muted his ability. Even if he remained very powerful as Vader.

Luke continued the family line but could only have been more powerful than Vader because he kept all his limbs (minus hand). Now bear in mind that all the Jedi are dead. So his exposure to other force users would have been largely limited to those kids he trained. Of those Kyle and Rey are the most powerful he’s seen, but I don’t think either are anywhere near as powerful as previous greats such as Plagueis, Palpatins, Yoda, Windu, Vader etc.

I also think it’s very likely that to reach your full potential in the force takes a very long time, and a level of insight and wisdom that only comes with age. The most powerful force users we’ve seen have typically been ancient. On screen the most powerful force user we’ve seen is probably Snoke. And it seems extremely likely to me that he’s probably not dead, with that being an illusion for the sake of Kylo Ren. He is also probably Plagueis.

I think you're right on the force users powers... Rey and Ren are equals but are not anything really special. People were getting very upset about how powerful Rey was but lifting some rocks isn't anything crazy really, is it?

I think Snoke is dead. 100% dead. They'll reveal who he was in or after Episode 9 to avoid contradicting the canon again.

 

[simonhch]

I think you're right on the force users powers... Rey and Ren are equals but are not anything really special. People were getting very upset about how powerful Rey was but lifting some rocks isn't anything crazy really, is it?

I think Snoke is dead. 100% dead. They'll reveal who he was in or after Episode 9 to avoid contradicting the canon again.

You might be right but don’t you think it’s pretty ridiculous that Snoke can see everything in their minds, create a mind channel between them spanning incomprehensible vast distances, but he can’t see Ren killing him? He just seems way way too powerful to be so easily duped, given he’s the most powerful force user we’ve seen on screen. Personally I still find his death by far the most disappointing thing of TLJ, as the movie now lacks a truly menacing antagonist. Rey is now as powerful or more powerful than the villain.

 

[John_Jensen]

You might be right but don’t you think it’s pretty ridiculous that Snoke can see everything in their minds, create a mind channel between them spanning incomprehensible vast distances, but he can’t see Ren killing him? He just seems way way too powerful to be so easily duped, given he’s the most powerful force user we’ve seen on screen. Personally I still find his death by far the most disappointing thing of TLJ, as the movie now lacks a truly menacing antagonist. Rey is now as powerful or more powerful than the villain.

Why would you think Snoke's behaviour should in any way make sense when no other character's behaviour in the film does.

As stated previously, the worst SW film by far. And history will recognise it for the steaming shitpile that it is.

 

[beedoubleyou]

You might be right but don’t you think it’s pretty ridiculous that Snoke can see everything in their minds, create a mind channel between them spanning incomprehensible vast distances, but he can’t see Ren killing him? He just seems way way too powerful to be so easily duped, given he’s the most powerful force user we’ve seen on screen. Personally I still find his death by far the most disappointing thing of TLJ, as the movie now lacks a truly menacing antagonist. Rey is now as powerful or more powerful than the villain.

Well you could say that Snoke's over confidence was his weakness, we've seen it before. I never really understood how The Emperor didn't see Vader plotting against him in Empire and his obvious turn in RoTJ. I suppose Ren's actions were less clear as he had no intention of turning to the light, just killing his master and replacing him.

 

[Bobski]

Snoke's death was utter cringe, and I thought he was a horrible character to start with. Just the way they built to it felt a parody of tropes.

Still think TLJ was tripe and Rogue One is the only half decent film that Disney have produced of the 3.

 

[Long Ball]

rey should have turned to the dark side leaving the grim ending ala empire strikes back, with leia dead and only luke to face them, po/chewy etc at his side. then rey is redeemed in the third. perhaps her parents should have been powerful dark side users rather than nobodies or being a Kenobi as some predicted. the trilogy needs an edge it doesn't have

but that's not gonna sell toys

 

[noodlehair]

Watched this last night.

It gets to the bit where it should end and then just decides "feck it, I'll keep going" for about another 40 minutes.

At the point I thought it was going to end, it had already reached a point where enough was enough. Not a lot of it was making very much sense.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Watched it last night too. I found it very boring TBH. I like the series but i can't say i'm fanatic of the SW universe, so i won't enter the discussion about all these details which don't make sense according to the dedicated fans.

But i thought it was all too obvious, script-wise, and too damn long for its own good. Snoke was very undeveloped as a character and everyone and his dog knew that they didn't bring Luke back to make him the main protagonist again. In this sense, the decision to put the notion that either Kylo Ren or Rey might switch alliances at the epicentre of the whole thing was rather dull. There was no convincing character on either side of the force that could lure the viewer into thinking that such a twist could become possible.

It's obviously better than the prequels but that's the same as saying that Mourinho's football is better than LvG/Moyes'.

 

[VidaRed]

They do though. They're called midi-chlorians and they're stupid.



"A key moment in The Last Jedi involves Luke claiming to have only seen raw power like Rey's once before, which was when he attempted to train Kylo" http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/04/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rey-luke-jedi-powers-strength/

So Kylo and Rey are both more powerful than Vader, Luke, Yoda et al. With the assumption being that Rey is the stronger even than Kylo. Honestly, it seems a bit daft to me and feels like they've just substituted actual character development with raw power.

That's ludicrous

 

[berbatrick]

np.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/884d2c/leftists_need_to_grapple_with_a_dangerous/dwig24x/

(edited)

 

[John_Jensen]

That's ludicrous

Rey beat the shit out of Luke within a week of finding out the Force was a real thing.

 

[Adzzz]

Arguing the film was deliberately bad to prove it was actually good, unironically, is pretty much peak reddit/internet star-warsery

 

[legolegs]

Rey beat the shit out of Luke within a week of finding out the Force was a real thing.

That's the only time they fought, right? Because yeah, she really, really beat the shit out of him in that scene

 

[Ubik]

That's the only time they fought, right? Because yeah, she really, really beat the shit out of him in that scene

Look at him, covered in sweat from the effort!

 

[Sweet Square]

Er..... I think you lot are overrating just how good the Jedi people are at the whole sword fighting thing



(Oh and as someone who pretty much hates all things star wars, this fight scene is still for whatever reason brilliant)

 

[Bobski]

(Oh and as someone who pretty much hates all things star wars, this fight scene is still for whatever reason brilliant)[/QUOTE]

All the light saber fights in the OT are strong, not because of the choreography, which is simplistic compared to the what came later, or the cool factor but because they fit and amplify the emotion of the scene. The final fight between Vader and Luke in Return is probably the peak 4-5 mins of the entire saga due to that. The weapon is part of the scene rather than the focus of, something the prequels and the rather dull fights in these new ones struggle with.

 

[Sweet Square]

All the light saber fights in the OT are strong, not because of the choreography, which is simplistic compared to the what came later, or the cool factor but because they fit and amplify the emotion of the scene. The final fight between Vader and Luke in Return is probably the peak 4-5 mins of the entire saga due to that. The weapon is part of the scene rather than the focus of, something the prequels and the rather dull fights in these new ones struggle with.

Completely agree which is why the (Extreme Mr Logic voice)''how is it possible that a GIRL!!!!!! beat the Jedi man'' is clearly a load of shite. If a fight scene in Star Wars doesn't work or doesn't hit the right connection then it's because of poor storytelling before and during the scene and not because of the ''logical'' inconsistencies(The clip I posted one of the men is in his 60's and the other is the terminator in space ). Star Wars is far more closer to the soap opera(Or at it's best hitting the themes similar to shakespeare) than classic sci fi discovery the spaceships, the aliens, the lightsabers are all just a expensive dressing for what is essentially a episode of Eastenders/Coronation Street.

something the prequels and the rather dull fights in these new ones struggle with.

The best part of prequels is first fight with the red laser barrier things(And really that's just a call back to the clip I posted).

 

[Klopper76]

 

[RedSky]

feck sake, shit like that makes me mad. Why not just swing first and disarm the left handed weapon first then go into that move?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can’t even begin to imagine the level of nerd required to notice/care about shit like that. And that’s coming from someone who’s always thought of himself as a nerd.