Squad Depth | We're doubled up!

AnotherLondonManc

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If all the business we're expected to complete this summer goes through, we're on course to be doubled up in every position, and doubled up well! (LB not included, we're still fecked there)

Onana
Bayindir

Dalot..........De Ligt......Martinez.......Shaw
Mazraoui......Yoro.......Maguire.......Amass

Casemiro......Mainoo
Berge/Ugarte.....McTominay

Amad.......Fernandes.....Garnacho
Antony...........Mount.........Rashford

Hojlund
Zirkzee
​
There's a very solid starting XI there, and the backups are far from terrible. McTom may be on his way out, but could well be replaced with someone like Amrabat. Antony's shown he's got a pretty low ceiling, but would be a useful option if he could just get back to his form from 2 seaons ago. And Sancho is still on our books too.

Is it a title winning team? No. But this may be the best shape our squad has been in pre season since Fergie.

Anyone else feeling cautiously optimistic?
 
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AnotherLondonManc said:
If all the business we're expected to complete this summer goes through, we're on course to be doubled up in every position, and doubled up well! (LB not included, we're still fecked there)

Hojland / Zirkzee
A.G/M.R - Bruno/Mount - Amad/Antony
Mainoo/McTom - Ugarte/Casemiro
Shaw - L.M/H.M - Yoro/DeLigt - Dalot/Mazr
Onana / Bayindir
​
There's a very solid starting XI there, and the backups are far from terrible. McTom may be on his way out, but could well be replaced with someone like Amrabat. Antony's shown he's got a pretty low ceiling, but would be a useful option if he could just get back to his form from 2 seaons ago. And Sancho is stil on our books too.

Is it a title winning team? No. But this may be the best shape our squad has been in pre season since Fergie.

Anyone else feeling cautiously optimistic?
Click to expand...
Don't mind the doomsday merchants who are negative


What we have done this window is extremely good.

Albeit with Mainoo and Garnacho coming from down below.
We now have a spine of
Mainoo
Garnacho
Amad
Yoro
Hojlund

All below 23 years. We need another 2 windows of 4-5 new players of 22-23 years. If we get this batch correctly. We will dominate for the next decade. We just need to move on all players from 2022 and before from the club.

Ineos should stick to the plan.
  • No new contracts should be handed out to existing players other than the 5 young players.
  • Signings of between 21-23 years only.
  • A manager who tries to control 85% of the matches we play in
We won't even need to go the Arsenal route ( being flawless) of trying and competing against doping Pep. Pep won't be around, so it will be extremely easy to fight off titles. (. Read the period of Pelligrini, Ranieri,Mourinho, Conte all won the league 2014 - 2018 period)

We just need to get the next batch of players correctly even 4 quality players will do the trick.
 
We aren't fecked at left back. We'll have Shaw, Mazraoui, Dalot, Malacia, Martinez and the best young prospect in the country in Amass.

If we want to sell Shaw and bring in someone like Theo Hernandez, then fine.
 
The 2 defensive additions are very important.

I'm not sure we are "expected" to sign Ugarte but I'm sure we will sign someone there.

In an ideal world we could do with another natural left back but I understand that firstly you can't do everything in one summer and also we do have 2 players there and sometimes players move past injury issues.

The idea of selling Lindelof and signing Hermoso is lovely as it improves the level of centre back cover and also someone who is genuinely experienced and comfortable at left back. Potentially even coming out in profit.

Either way it is a very decent squad once we get a midfielder in.
 
AnotherLondonManc said:
If all the business we're expected to complete this summer goes through, we're on course to be doubled up in every position, and doubled up well! (LB not included, we're still fecked there)

Hojland / Zirkzee
A.G/M.R - Bruno/Mount - Amad/Antony
Mainoo/McTom - Ugarte/Casemiro
Shaw - L.M/H.M - Yoro/DeLigt - Dalot/Mazr
Onana / Bayindir
​
There's a very solid starting XI there, and the backups are far from terrible. McTom may be on his way out, but could well be replaced with someone like Amrabat. Antony's shown he's got a pretty low ceiling, but would be a useful option if he could just get back to his form from 2 seaons ago. And Sancho is stil on our books too.

Is it a title winning team? No. But this may be the best shape our squad has been in pre season since Fergie.

Anyone else feeling cautiously optimistic?
Click to expand...
Importantly, in most positions, both starter and backup fit a minimum technical level such that we can play the same way with either of them in. Very different than the days of Dalot/AWB.
The glaring case where that's not true is Mainoo/Mctominay, Hence why I would trade Mctominay for Yossouf Fofana. Signing Hermoso on free allows us to cover for Shaw and Martinez. If we can somehow swap Casemiro for Sander Berge too, that'll be great.
The only position where we would have two playere with very different skillsets would be at CF but I would argue that in that case, it's actually a good thing because it allows us to go after defences in more ways than one.
Get Ugarte, Fofana, Berge and Hermoso and this squad would arguably be the strongest in the country.
 
FrankWhite said:
Importantly, in most positions, both starter and backup fit a minimum technical level such that we can play the same way with either of them in. Very different than the days of Dalot/AWB.
The glaring case where that's not true is Mainoo/Mctominay, Hence why I would trade Mctominay for Yossouf Fofana. Signing Hermoso on free allows us to cover for Shaw and Martinez. If we can somehow swap Casemiro for Sander Berge too, that'll be great.
The only position where we would have two playere with very different skillsets would be at CF but I would argue that in that case, it's actually a good thing because it allows us to go after defences in more ways than one.
Get Ugarte, Fofana, Berge and Hermoso and this squad would arguably be the strongest in the country.
Click to expand...
Explain how we now obtain Ugarte, Fofana, Berge and Hermoso without riding ourselves sideways in terms of FFP/PSR?
 
If we can get the 4 signings done that we need in the next few weeks, with a bit of luck we could win the league.

We won't be favourites of course. City still have the best squad but it's not quite as good as a couple of years ago and their case is due for November anyway. Arsenal's squad is arguably better than ours but it's close. I'd say their main advantage over us is the experience of the last couple of years. Liverpool don't have a better squad or first team and have lost Klopp. Villa seem to have bought well on top of a good bunch and have a very astute manager. But competing in the cl means they'll do well to get top 4 again. Chelsea are the biggest wildcard. They could finish anywhere in the top half, including 1st if it all clicks. But given their massive turnover and new manager that would be a shock.

Our biggest problem since Ten Hag came is that every week it's felt like cobbling together whatever half fit players and square pegs we could muster. If we really do end up with 2 suitable players for each position then I think we're back in with an outside chance.
 
KanieKaned said:
Explain how we now obtain Ugarte, Fofana, Berge and Hermoso without riding ourselves sideways in terms of FFP/PSR?
Click to expand...
Let me do Caf maths for you.

Sell:
McTominay = 40m
Lindelof = 30m
AWB = 20m

Thats 90m already. If we add Antony to the list thats another 65m. Or we feel brave we can sell Rashford for extra 100m.
 
Add another DM our squad this year seems very ready!

We could challenge for 4 competition in PL, EL, FA and League Cup.

ETH need to rotate better to keep the squad fresh.

Hope also we have better luck with injury
 
tenpoless said:
Let me do Caf maths for you.

Sell:
McTominay = 40m
Lindelof = 30m
AWB = 20m

Thats 90m already. If we add Antony to the list thats another 65m. Or we feel brave we can sell Rashford for extra 100m.
Click to expand...
You will need to face reality soon regarding those fees for McTominay and Lindelöf.
 
AnotherLondonManc said:
If all the business we're expected to complete this summer goes through, we're on course to be doubled up in every position, and doubled up well! (LB not included, we're still fecked there)

Hojland / Zirkzee
A.G/M.R - Bruno/Mount - Amad/Antony
Mainoo/McTom - Ugarte/Casemiro
Shaw - L.M/H.M - Yoro/DeLigt - Dalot/Mazr
Onana / Bayindir
​
There's a very solid starting XI there, and the backups are far from terrible. McTom may be on his way out, but could well be replaced with someone like Amrabat. Antony's shown he's got a pretty low ceiling, but would be a useful option if he could just get back to his form from 2 seaons ago. And Sancho is stil on our books too.

Is it a title winning team? No. But this may be the best shape our squad has been in pre season since Fergie.

Anyone else feeling cautiously optimistic?
Click to expand...

The midfield is really an issue. Mctominay Casemiro and Eriksen are going to play a lot of games this season and it's a problem. We need 2 midfielders and ship out Mctominay and Eriksen.

It looks like Casemiro is staying but we can't be fooled by Saturday, we want to rely on him as little as possible this season, he's on a serious decline even if he still has the occasional good game in his locker.

Bringing in just one midfielder to fix the dreadful midfield we had last season doesn't seem anywhere near enough.
 
AnotherLondonManc said:
If all the business we're expected to complete this summer goes through, we're on course to be doubled up in every position, and doubled up well! (LB not included, we're still fecked there)

Hojland / Zirkzee
A.G/M.R - Bruno/Mount - Amad/Antony
Mainoo/McTom - Ugarte/Casemiro
Shaw - L.M/H.M - Yoro/DeLigt - Dalot/Mazr
Onana / Bayindir
​
There's a very solid starting XI there, and the backups are far from terrible. McTom may be on his way out, but could well be replaced with someone like Amrabat. Antony's shown he's got a pretty low ceiling, but would be a useful option if he could just get back to his form from 2 seaons ago. And Sancho is stil on our books too.

Is it a title winning team? No. But this may be the best shape our squad has been in pre season since Fergie.

Anyone else feeling cautiously optimistic?
Click to expand...

Yep, the bottom level is significantly higher now. I disagree that McTominay is an #8 and we haven't signed Ugarte yet. Typically what we've seen is McTominay at #10 to grab a goal and Bruno drop to #8 when needed. Mount and Eriksen were in that #8 role as well. As you pointed out, Shaw still doesn't have adequate cover.

I think we have enough players that are good enough at #8 and LB to say we're doubled up. LB = Mazraoui, Martinez, Malacia, Amass. CM = one of Bruno, Mount, Eriksen, Collyer etc.

The DM situation is scary and I think INEOS know this so I expect it to get fixed.

Next window the focus has to move to improving our top level. GK, LB, DM, RW can all be improved on.
 
Remember the geese said:
We aren't fecked at left back. We'll have Shaw, Mazraoui, Dalot, Malacia, Martinez and the best young prospect in the country in Amass.

If we want to sell Shaw and bring in someone like Theo Hernandez, then fine.
Click to expand...

This. There are question marks around all of them at LB, but it's still 6 solid options there, even if Amass will not be getting loads of game time this season.

We cannot go into a season where we have 7 players for 1 position, just because we had an injury crisis last year. We cannot just expect that it's likely that something like that happens again.
 
Remember the geese said:
We aren't fecked at left back. We'll have Shaw, Mazraoui, Dalot, Malacia, Martinez and the best young prospect in the country in Amass.

If we want to sell Shaw and bring in someone like Theo Hernandez, then fine.
Click to expand...
It's just that LB position has been cursed when it comes into consistency (RB had Dalot always available at least). So unless we have a mainstay LB ready to compete with Shaw it still feels 'incomplete'. Malacia seemed to have solved this issue until he got injured. We're not fecked, just incomplete. Some of the players you mentioned don't consider LB as their preferred position. And our CBs have several players with injury records too, so it's best to not expect them to cover for LB. Rather, they should cover for each other and to be rotated around (for consistency purpose as well).

Out of those I'd consider only Shaw (quite prone to injury), Malacia (injured?), and Amass (still very young) as a mainstay LB. Mazraoui is obviously going to replace AWB.
 
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Midfield is still poor and needs a big revamp. After that we’d have to see where our attack is next summer and possibly upgrade on what we have. LB is another issue.

I do like the business we’ve done so far and especially the profile we are looking at (under 25, high potential)
 
KanieKaned said:
Explain how we now obtain Ugarte, Fofana, Berge and Hermoso without riding ourselves sideways in terms of FFP/PSR?
Click to expand...
For starters, do you know just how much we can or can't spend? It's all speculation, nobody knows anything. Secondly, I imagine if we manage to shift 2 out of Mctominay, Casemiro and Sancho, we would spend. We would get at least two midfielders if we manage to get rid of the former two.
Ideally I'd like to get an established winger in, if we sell Sancho. I like Amad, Garnacho and Mainoo but like Jason Wilcox said, there should be concerns about overplaying the kids. They should be given time to grow, in and out of the team. This is what my preferred main squad would look like:
Hojlund / Zirkzee
A.G/M.R - Bruno/Mount - Rafinha/Amad
Mainoo/Fofana - Ugarte/Berge
L.S/Hermoso - L.M/H.M - Yoro/DeLigt - Dalot/Mazr
Onana / Bayindir
This is a very strong team that still has 7 young players in its core and allows us to still have players like Collyer, Amass and Obi Martin in the background.
 
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AnotherLondonManc said:
If all the business we're expected to complete this summer goes through, we're on course to be doubled up in every position, and doubled up well! (LB not included, we're still fecked there)

Hojland / Zirkzee
A.G/M.R - Bruno/Mount - Amad/Antony
Mainoo/McTom - Ugarte/Casemiro
Shaw - L.M/H.M - Yoro/DeLigt - Dalot/Mazr
Onana / Bayindir
​
There's a very solid starting XI there, and the backups are far from terrible. McTom may be on his way out, but could well be replaced with someone like Amrabat. Antony's shown he's got a pretty low ceiling, but would be a useful option if he could just get back to his form from 2 seaons ago. And Sancho is stil on our books too.

Is it a title winning team? No. But this may be the best shape our squad has been in pre season since Fergie.

Anyone else feeling cautiously optimistic?
Click to expand...

While i am optimistic about the next season, we essentially only have reliable, top-4 quality back-up only in ST, CB positions. And no, i am not expecting City-level backups, but ones to match Arsenal, pool and even spurs.

(And this is assuming we get a Ugarte type DM and Zirkzee transitioning to PL comfortably).

Everywhere, it is either players who have seriously underwhelmed last season (Rashford, Antony, Case, Mount), or are huge question marks (Amass, Bayindir, Mazroui).
 
with AWB leaving today and De Ligt & Mazraoui coming in today as well, we are well covered in defense, hopefully Ugarte is signed this week too, so we are also covered in midfield, we have enough cover in attack with Hojlund's injury not being a long term one.

Some sales must be completed soon, Lindelof has no space with De Ligt & Yoro coming in, McTominay can fetch at least 20M if not more and Pellistri is not needed, not that i think Antony is better but Pelli is the one easier to shift.
 
The baseline in defence looks a lot stronger with the additions of Yoro and de Ligt but not a lot else has materially changed.

We should (hopefully) have a player who is a lot more available than Martial in Zirkzee but this team still lacks goals, and the midfield still looks neglected.

It might look a little rosier if we got another two or three more signings in.
 
Defensively we look much better, if players stay fit.

Shifting McT, Sancho and Lindelof and bringing in Ugarte with perhaps a bargain CM would be a great end to the window.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Midfield is still poor and needs a big revamp. After that we’d have to see where our attack is next summer and possibly upgrade on what we have. LB is another issue.

I do like the business we’ve done so far and especially the profile we are looking at (under 25, high potential)
Click to expand...
That ain't happening for anything north of 42-43 mil
 
There are still a lot of question marks over most of these players. They’re young and certainly seem to fit the right profile, but it’s hard to ignore that we only have one player in the realm of world class. Two if Shaw can ever stay fit and get back to his best.

Still, there’s nothing more exciting than watching a young team grow together. I’m happy that we’re target young players with potential
 
I think we will be ok this year without buying an actual LB with the current signings..

We have Shaw as indisputable starter, and we have as alternative options
- Mazraoui.. He is definitely a rightback, but he is smart enough to also cover LB (same goes for Dalot by the way)
- Martinez.. He can cover there inverted in the same way for example Ake covers LB for City
- Amass.. If he continues to develop Im sure he can play some minutes if needed
- Malacia.. Cant rely on him to be honest, but heh.. He is still here..

Martinez towards LB as alternative option is made possible because of the depth we have in CB with De Ligt, Yoro Maguire Evens as option besides Martinez himself.. (not counting Lindelof as he will be still shipped I think).

The downside is that with MArtinez and Mazraoui as cover for Shaw, there will always be another type of defender so it has affect on the way you want to player football.. Only Amass is similar in terms of style, but we have to see whether Ten Hag will use him during the season.

It's not ideal, but we knew we werent going to fix all our problems in the first INEOS window..
 
Flying high said:
If we can get the 4 signings done that we need in the next few weeks, with a bit of luck we could win the league.

We won't be favourites of course.
Click to expand...

To win the league you have to win almost every game in a 6 month period, and even that didn't get us the league as we still lost despite our insane run the last 5-6 months where we won almost every single league game barring the City draw.

No offense you're nowhere near it. You still don't have a proven goalscorer, or a proper DM barring Mainoo who's 18 himself, no proper LB cover, no top CBs other than De Ligt who's injury record is questionable. If you sign a midfielder and a proven striker you'll make top 4 as a) I don't think Spurs have improved b) Villa will be distracted by the CL and the league together c) Chelsea are a total joke.

For what its worth even for us to win the league we'd have to have an insane start like Liverpool did few years back ie win 16/18 games. This is the only way to beat City which is get FAR ahead of them. We showed this form last few months but its easier said than done. I feel you're far away from it.

I hope you don't get annoyed at my opinion! My genuine view.
 
Escobar said:
No one says we are Real Madrid. But most can appreciate the progress and see how things imrpove. We cannot change 15 players in one window
Click to expand...
Correct. It’s a good step in the right direction. We should be competing for 4th. If not, Ten Hag might go.
 
ArtetasHair said:
To win the league you have to win almost every game in a 6 month period, and even that didn't get us the league as we still lost despite our insane run the last 5-6 months where we won almost every single league game barring the City draw.

No offense you're nowhere near it. You still don't have a proven goalscorer, or a proper DM barring Mainoo who's 18 himself, no proper LB cover, no top CBs other than De Ligt who's injury record is questionable. If you sign a midfielder and a proven striker you'll make top 4 as a) I don't think Spurs have improved b) Villa will be distracted by the CL and the league together c) Chelsea are a total joke.

For what its worth even for us to win the league we'd have to have an insane start like Liverpool did few years back ie win 16/18 games. This is the only way to beat City which is get FAR ahead of them. We showed this form last few months but its easier said than done. I feel you're far away from it.

I hope you don't get annoyed at my opinion! My genuine view.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by "nowhere near it" but I don't think we have any issues that cannot be solved within 2 years.

I agree though that winning it next season would be a big surprise. At the same time however, I think we're a lot better than rival and even United fans expect, so I'm expecting a comfortable 3rd or 4th place tbh.
 
AnotherLondonManc said:
If all the business we're expected to complete this summer goes through, we're on course to be doubled up in every position, and doubled up well! (LB not included, we're still fecked there)

Hojland / Zirkzee
A.G/M.R - Bruno/Mount - Amad/Antony
Mainoo/McTom - Ugarte/Casemiro
Shaw - L.M/H.M - Yoro/DeLigt - Dalot/Mazr
Onana / Bayindir
​
There's a very solid starting XI there, and the backups are far from terrible. McTom may be on his way out, but could well be replaced with someone like Amrabat. Antony's shown he's got a pretty low ceiling, but would be a useful option if he could just get back to his form from 2 seaons ago. And Sancho is stil on our books too.

Is it a title winning team? No. But this may be the best shape our squad has been in pre season since Fergie.

Anyone else feeling cautiously optimistic?
Click to expand...
Why do some players get their actual names but others just get initials?!
 
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