Squad analysis

Problem with these threads are that our good players turn to sht. Last year Case was one of the best DMs, Rashford banging 30 goals, Bruno was a mainstay etc. Just give it a year or 2 and pitchforks will be out for all these players
 
Craig Ward said:
Our squad has been a joke for years.

Our boards inability to sell in the transfer market and the logic of keeping fringe players on bumper contracts to "retain value" has really out us in this spot.

With each new manager, we get a bump and a bunch of new players. We have a squad of misjointed misfits from about 5 managers worth of decisions.

Just think of how many players we have who are on the fringes/out on loan who don't come NEAR the first team squad before we even start looking at players around the squad who don't have a future here. It's unreal.

Hannibal. Donny. Williams. Pellistri. Fernandez. Sancho.

That's 6 high earners out on loan who seemingly cant get a look in our squad. Our board would historically struggle to get these 6 out on permanent deals, yet alone an actual meaningful squad overhaul.

I'd love to think we'd see a transformative change to the 1st team squad. Eriksen, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Martial. Basically anyone who has been at the club for 3yrs+ wouldn't be suitable for the new regime in my opinion due to them being unable to adapt to the cultural reset that needs to happen.

Makes my blood boil every time we get into these posts about our squad. It's been mid table level for years. We have zero world class players at the club. Zero. Absolutely no one at this club is an elite level consistent performer. In small spurts, sure we have very capable players.

Even our very best isn't the best in the league. Martinez? He's a great CB. Does he get in the best teams in the country? Absolutely not. Fernandes? Absolutely not. Casemiro? Christ no.

We are blessed with a lot of raw potential. Garnacho, Amad, Mainoo. Hojlund. We always have a knack for finding players - they just rarely develop into elite level serial winners these days. That's down to the culture around the place. If Rashford had come through in the glory days, we'd be talking about a monster of a player. Around this place, with this turmoil over the last decade - he's a rotten egg. Shambles
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Agree - especially with the bold part.
 
Lee565 said:
Sell

Onana - too many errors in him per season

Bissaka - extend contract and sell for as much as possible

Varane - he's not going to get better and is on a big contract to make something back on him.

Maguire - take advantage of him having decent form this season but is way too slow to play a highline with.

Malacia - he is just a poor man bissaka, decent defensively but very poor offensively.

Casimero - legs have gone now, terrible buy.

Mount - bang average, try to recoup as much as possible whilst some mug of a club might still be willing to believe he is worth north of 35 million

Fernandes - take the money before his age puts off other clubs outlying a good fee for him and he is too wasteful on the ball and resricts us tactically.

Mctominay - he is not good enough for a top side even as a back up and we can probably get a good fee for him with him having a decent season by his usual poor standards.

Beek - nothing to say about him.

Antony - we are going to have to take q massive hit for a complete flop.

Rashford - would get us a very good fee but way too inconsistent and questionable mentality.

Sancho - like Antony we will have to take a big hit on him, waste of space with poor mentality.

Martial - get rid for free, waste of space.

The rest of the players are good enough to keep as either first teamers or back up like shaw who should not be our first choice lb any more but would be a good back up for left back, centre back and possibly even as defensive midfielder because he definitely has the talent but injuries let him down to be reliable. Lindelof is good back up centre back to have around.
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Agree with most of it apart from Mount who should never have been signed,however as he's here I feel he should get another season. There is a tweet going out suggesting we could sell 10 players in the summer,so which players do people think are on this list?
 
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Best thing you can say for this re-building process, is that you have a potential young spine in Martinez - Mainoo - Hojlund, but the rest is barren. Maybe Garnacho and never seen Malacia can be starters too on a title challenging team. Forget the rest. Rashford needs a humbling, he won´t get at United. Got the talent, but too many bad habits build-up over the years. Bruno is too error-prone for a possession-based elite team. Lots of work ahead for Ineos.
 
There is potential in this team if the right ones are moved on, and right ones are kept, plus adding some quality players that can raise the level of the team overall.

but to make the right decisions we need the right people making them, let's hope INEOS manages that.
 
croadyman said:
Agree with most of it apart from Mount who should never have been signed,however as he's here I feel he should get another season. There is a tweet going out suggesting we could sell 10 players in the summer,so which players do people think are on this list?
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Bayindir
Evans
Lindelöf
Maguire
Wan-Bissaka
Amrabat
Eriksen
Martial
Sancho
Greenwood

Let‘s be honest: there should be more than those. McTominay could be seen as a valuable squad member - Bruno as well as Rashford are controversial. Antony, for me, must also be moved on. Casemiro?

So, we are looking at:

Onana
GOALKEEPER
Heaton

Dalot
Wan-Bissaka
Shaw
Malacia
Martínez
Varane
CB
CB

Mainoo
Casemiro (?)
Bruno (?)
Mount
McTominay (?)
CM
CM

Garnacho
Rashford (?)
Antony (?)
Hojlund
Diallo
ST
LW
RW

Blimey.
 
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Martinez, Onana, Höjlund, Mainoo, Garnacho, Dalot. Keep these, rest can get going.
 
GK
Onana - Stays as there are too many other positions that need players.
Bayindir - Back-up
Heaton - Doesn't matter if he stays or goes, easy enough to get a 3rd choice keeper.

DF
Martínez - Stays as a back-up LCB /LB
Varane - Sell
Maguire - Sell
Lindelöf - Sell
Evans - I'll give him an extension for another year as we are losing too many CB's in my plan.
Kambwala - Hopefully would get more chances this season and establishes himself as an able deputy.
Dalot - Stays as a back-up RB and LB
Wan-Bissaka - Sell
Shaw - Stays as a back-up LCB/LB
Malacia - Sell, if still alive.

MF
Casemiro - Sell
Amrabat - Release
McTominay - Stays another season as too many other reinforcements are needed.
Eriksen - Sell/Release
Mainoo - Mainstay
Mount - We haven't seen enough, so stays for now.
Fernandes - Sell

ATTACK
Rashford - Stays (Sell if we get a ridiculous offer)
Garnacho - Stays
Hojlund - Stays
Antony - Loan/Sell
Martial - Release
Amad - Stays, same as Mount
Sancho - Sell/Release


Onana/Bayindir
RB/Dalot RCB/Willy LCB/Martinez/Evans LB/Shaw
DM/McTom Mainoo/CM
RW/Amad Mount/AM Rashford/Garnacho
Hojlund/Striker
​
RB, RCB, LCB, LB, DM, CM, RW, AM, Striker - That's just too much to do in one window. The next DOF/recruitment guy has his job cut out
 
I'd give Onana another year. Mount too I suppose, even though I've never been the biggest fan of him. I'd keep Shaw for depth/rotation, but wouldn't shed any tears if he was sold. Martinez, I'd keep. I'd hang onto Dalot, even if just for depth/rotation. Mainoo, I'd obviously keep, same goes for Garnacho and Højlund. I would also keep Amad and have him compete with Garnacho on the right, whilst also being versatile enough to be an option centrally.

Everyone else are free to leave as far as I'm concerned.

In terms of youth, it would be a good opportunity to take a number of academy players on tour seeing as the Euro's are on. I'm thinking primarily, Amass, Fletcher, Fitzgerald, Lacey, Mantato, E. Williams and possibly one or two others. I assume some/all of those players won't be ready to contribute for us next season, but I'd assess them during pre season as the door is always open.
 
I think the issue is that nobody really knows whether the issue is with the tactics from the manager or whether the players are just generally rubbish.

If Ten Hag were to go, any decent manager would probably think they could get a decent tune out of front 3 (despite their inconsistency in front of goal this season) in the short term.

If you watched us on Saturday for the first time this season, you'd say that our weaknesses were all over the pitch and strengthening any area would improve us immediately.

If you came in with a magic wand and could do three things, what you'd almost certainly do is make Martinez and Shaw less injury prone and take five years off Casemiro's age. Those things alone make us a top 4 side. Ultimately, that's probably where Ten Hag or his replacement will need to strengthen straight away if those three can't be replied upon over the course of a season.

Then you'd look at bringing in cover for Hojlund as that was also the other obvious problem on Saturday.

That's 4 signings straight away that would need to happen as a matter of urgency. Other signings would ultimately depend on whether we can decent money for Greenwood (hopefully), Sancho, Antony, Maguire and maybe Lindelof alongside McTominay.

Pellestri, Diallo and Hannibal could also go permanently.

As much as we'd a love a massive clear out, there's only going to be so much you can do in one summer. A sensible club would have short, medium and long term goals and squad realignment would ultimately tie in with that.
 
Insanity said:
GK
Onana - Stays as there are too many other positions that need players.
Bayindir - Back-up
Heaton - Doesn't matter if he stays or goes, easy enough to get a 3rd choice keeper.

DF
Martínez - Stays as a back-up LCB /LB
Varane - Sell
Maguire - Sell
Lindelöf - Sell
Evans - I'll give him an extension for another year as we are losing too many CB's in my plan.
Kambwala - Hopefully would get more chances this season and establishes himself as an able deputy.
Dalot - Stays as a back-up RB and LB
Wan-Bissaka - Sell
Shaw - Stays as a back-up LCB/LB
Malacia - Sell, if still alive.

MF
Casemiro - Sell
Amrabat - Release
McTominay - Stays another season as too many other reinforcements are needed.
Eriksen - Sell/Release
Mainoo - Mainstay
Mount - We haven't seen enough, so stays for now.
Fernandes - Sell

ATTACK
Rashford - Stays (Sell if we get a ridiculous offer)
Garnacho - Stays
Hojlund - Stays
Antony - Loan/Sell
Martial - Release
Amad - Stays, same as Mount
Sancho - Sell/Release


Onana/Bayindir
RB/Dalot RCB/Willy LCB/Martinez/Evans LB/Shaw
DM/McTom Mainoo/CM
RW/Amad Mount/AM Rashford/Garnacho
Hojlund/Striker
​
RB, RCB, LCB, LB, DM, CM, RW, AM, Striker - That's just too much to do in one window. The next DOF/recruitment guy has his job cut out
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Fantastic post and the reality check that most united fans just don’t get, you can’t fix everything at United in three windows let alone one, the club has Cashflow problems and Sir Jim is a clever astute businessman, he’s not going whole hog with just 27.7% ownership, if he invests more money to help with Cashflow, then he’ll get a bigger chunk of the club. We really don’t have £300-400m like some are fantasising about, it’s £80-100m plus what we sell?
So we are not buying 8 or 9 players with £160-220m ?
 
fergiewherearethou said:
This minus Onana.
I wouldn't mind selling anyone else but knowing our transfer history there are chances we will sell for peanuts and buy expensive flops.
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I put Onana there as I want to see him play in a functioning team before I make up my mind.
 
arthurka said:
I put Onana there as I want to see him play in a functioning team before I make up my mind.
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Understandable, but I have no hope for him to improve.
He makes basic mistakes and offers an aura of uncertainty around him when it comes to saving a ball, sure a functioning team would mean less shots on target so less possible mistakes. But I think we can find a decent GK out there who may at least be good, not world class.
 
Scandi Red said:
Must keep for potential:
- Mainoo
- Højlund
- Garnacho

Must keep because they are still good at football:
- Martinez
- Bruno
- Shaw

Should keep because they deserve one more season:
- Mount
- Onana

Should keep because we still need a squad (but sell if we get a ridiculously good offer):
- Dalot
- AWB
- Lindelöf
- Evans
- Malacia
- Rashford
- Casemiro
- Bayandir
- Amad
- Forson
- Kambwala

Reluctantly keep because we need to get rid Greenwood and Sancho first:
- Antony (crying emoji)
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Nailed it. Wouldn’t change a thing.
 
GK
Onana - Keep
Bayindir - Keep
Heaton - Keep/retire?

DF
Martínez - Keep
Varane - Sell, purely due to injuries
Maguire - Sell
Lindelöf - Sell
Evans - I see no reason not to leave as useful squad player and experienced head
Kambwala Loan
Dalot - Keep
Wan-Bissaka - Sell
Shaw Keep
Malacia - Probably worth one more season as this was a write off

MF
Casemiro - Keep as squad player, role model, as we arent selling 9 or 10 first teamers in one window anyway
Amrabat - Sell
McTominay - Squad player
Eriksen - Sell, it's time. Good free signing at the time.
Mainoo Keep
Mount Keep
Fernandes Keep

ATTACK
Rashford - No point keeping this guy until he's 33. Sell while there's a fee.
Garnacho
Hojlund
Antony - Against my better judgement I say one more season, we won't be recouping much anyway.
Martial - Obviously sell
Amad

Onana
Dalot Tobido Martínez Robinson
Mainoo De Jong
Garnacho Fernandes Kvaratskhelia
Hojlund​
 
The squad is in shambles and there’s no sorting it all out in one or even two transfer windows. A case can be made for getting rid of them all except Hojlund, Garnacho and Mainoo but that’s not feasible.

Management needs to bite some bullets and prepare for two more seasons of mediocrity — let’s call it a step back before we take two steps forward — while we replace nearly every player in the squad, and that includes all of ETH’s signings bar Hojlund.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
Understandable, but I have no hope for him to improve.
He makes basic mistakes and offers an aura of uncertainty around him when it comes to saving a ball, sure a functioning team would mean less shots on target so less possible mistakes. But I think we can find a decent GK out there who may at least be good, not world class.
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You are probably right but this assembly of planks isn't close to be judged, can't really put in any real assessment of anyone in this group.
 
There was a stat maybe last season about total number of players used in the last few years...and United were way down on the list as they keep hold of everyone far too long.

I don't believe United will qualify for the CL next season so INEOS should just be brave and gut the squad, fill the gaps with players academy lads and add a few players who can handle the physical demands of the league.
 
Obviously it's impossible, but I would say at least within the next few seasons we should be looking at:

X
Dalot X Martinez Shaw
X Mainoo X
Garnacho Hojlund X
 
One important thing that nobody has mentioned here is the amount of lightweight players we have. Currently against Forest we have Rashford, Bruno, Antony and Garnacho all of the front four are extremely weak and feeble and any slight contact they lose possession.

Not a single team has front four all going down every two second, After all this is a contact sport and if you add Maino and Lindelof which are also starting regularly for us, that makes it 6 starting players which are easily outmuscled and bullied.

You can't expect to pick up 50/50s or dominate with such a weak looking side. This should also be one part which we address in our signings this summer.
 
I'll keep my analysis brief.

I am convinced that every single one of our players is stupid - both individually and when acting as a collective unit. I can't think of one I would consider clever or even savvy.

We have a squad full of the footballing equivalent of the loud guy in the meeting at work who thinks he's the smartest in the room, but who is actually just an impediment to progress.
 
GK
Onana - not lived up to the hype
Bayindir - who?
Heaton - will go

DF
Martínez - love him, is he injury prone now?
Vatane - great player, but no real future
Maguire - maybe backup? 5th choice?
Lindelöf - time to kove to China
Evans - great servant, but need to look forward
Kambwala - looks good, needs chances & trust
Dalot - I like him, improved a lot, stays
Wan-Bissaka - forgot he was even here
Shaw - good player but the new Hargreaves
Malacia - does he still play for us?

MF
Casemiro - would happily take the money but also not against him staying for experience
Amrabat - creates good YouTube clips of himself
McTominay - I'd keep, squad player only, never a starter
Eriksen - goodbye
Mainoo - the future
Mount - I like him, don't know how he fits though and whether he is up to being a top player
Fernandes - would take a Saudi offer, just not a world class player or leader

ATTACK
Rashford - has to go
Garnacho - the future
Hojlund - the future
Antony - maybe he can change his career to be a freestyler?
Martial - goodbye
Amad - personally think there is a player, equally can't argue at the DVB comparisons. Time will tell.

I think i chose 7 players out of the list that we should keep. Really says a lot about where we are, £1bn later. Cannot wait for SJR to clean up the mess.
 
SER19 said:
GK
Onana - Keep
Bayindir - Keep
Heaton - Keep/retire?

DF
Martínez - Keep
Varane - Sell, purely due to injuries
Maguire - Sell
Lindelöf - Sell
Evans - I see no reason not to leave as useful squad player and experienced head
Kambwala Loan
Dalot - Keep
Wan-Bissaka - Sell
Shaw Keep
Malacia - Probably worth one more season as this was a write off

MF
Casemiro - Keep as squad player, role model, as we arent selling 9 or 10 first teamers in one window anyway
Amrabat - Sell
McTominay - Squad player
Eriksen - Sell, it's time. Good free signing at the time.
Mainoo Keep
Mount Keep
Fernandes Keep

ATTACK
Rashford - No point keeping this guy until he's 33. Sell while there's a fee.
Garnacho
Hojlund
Antony - Against my better judgement I say one more season, we won't be recouping much anyway.
Martial - Obviously sell
Amad

Onana
Dalot Tobido Martínez Robinson
Mainoo De Jong
Garnacho Fernandes Kvaratskhelia
Hojlund​
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There are two problems with that ideal XI,the first being we would need to sell more than just the ones in red to fund it. The second is that De Jong has zero intention to leave Barca
 
croadyman said:
There are two problems with that ideal XI,the first being we would need to sell more than just the ones in red to fund it. The second is that De Jong has zero intention to leave Barca
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You don't think selling rashford, also remember sancho and Greenwood, as well as above would fund that?
 
The only criteria we should be considering right now is a players' physical attributes.

We should be prioritising shifting every player who is either slow, weak, cowardly or all three.

When we have a squad of 23 players physically capable of competing, then we can worry about icing the cake with a couple of standout players.

See Liverpool. Most of their team are very rough around the edges technically, but they can all run and they all fight like cornered badgers. Throw in star quality via Salah and you have a side who are not easy on the eye but are very effective
 
Keep:
Onana
Bayindir
Dalot
Martinez
Kambwala
Maguire
Shaw
Malacia
Mount (needs to get fit though)
Mainoo
Fernandes
Hojlund
Garnacho

Sell/release if possible (right price):
Lindelof
AWB
McTominay
Rashford
Varane
Diallo

Sell/release at any cost:
Heaton
Evans
B. Williams
Van de Beek
Casemiro
Amrabat
Eriksen
Antony
Sancho
Martial
Pellistri
 
Besides Mainoo and Hojlund there's not a player I wouldn't sell.

After saying that, we just can't sell the entire squad in one window so I'd start by clearing the players who've been here the most time as its harder to change the culture with them being so comfortable with the current one.
 
I think the challenge is to sell, not to buy. How can we get better at moving players on like Varane, Casemiro, Maguire, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood and Antony or even Rashford for good money? The sales dictate where and how much we can strengthen. I feel like given the seasons these guys are having, we should be able to make decent money.

I'm confident with Berrada, Ashworth and co we'll have a decent long term vision for how the club should play and sign accordingly.
 
There are no untouchable players. That's putting the cart before the horse.

First, as Rangnick said, we have to decide how we want to play. Once the club does that it becomes easier to decide.

However, one thing is sure: If we want to be a possession team that builds from the back and presses high, the bulk of the current squad needs to be replaced.
 
The squad is in the worst state it’s been in PL era, not necessarily in terms of overall quality but when you look at the age of a number of players, the number whose contracts expire in next two years and the massively overpaid flops who can’t be sold.

Just in defence we have AWB who has a year left, 4 centre backs who are all at least 30 in the summer, 2 of those out of contract this summer and 2 next. There are then big injury concerns over Martinez, Malacia and Shaw.

The club has been kicking the can down the road on too many players and replacing deadwood with deadwood for such a long time that it’s a huge undertaking to resolve it.
 
#07 said:
However, one thing is sure: If we want to be a possession team that builds from the back and presses high, the bulk of the current squad needs to be replaced.
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There's some pragmatic middleground - There's guys like Gabriel, Van De Ven, Botman doing just fine with build up and they're hardly the most technical footballers. It's more about training the mind to re-create some canned build up play patterns consistently with intelligence to find solutions when the opposition press is disrupting those patterns and that's on Ten Hag. Let's just ignore the games against Pool / City because they're lightyears ahead of us. In other games, we're getting there but the lack of personnel + Ten Hag not adapting to the lack of personnel is costing us.
 
Teja said:
There's some pragmatic middleground - There's guys like Gabriel, Van De Ven, Botman doing just fine with build up and they're hardly the most technical footballers. It's more about training the mind to re-create some canned build up play patterns consistently with intelligence to find solutions when the opposition press is disrupting those patterns and that's on Ten Hag. Let's just ignore the games against Pool / City because they're lightyears ahead of us. In other games, we're getting there but the lack of personnel + Ten Hag not adapting to the lack of personnel is costing us.
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This is the point I made: We don't have the personnel to play the way Ten Hag wants to. In order to get results, Ten Hag would have to adapt to a different style.

If the club wants to go for high pressure, high back line system, it needs four fast defenders who are all adept in 1v1 situations. At the moment you can make the case that only two or three of our defenders can defend 1v1 to a high level, most of them are slow too. When you add the need to be good in possession to that...

Likewise, we have one player in the squad who looks like he might become a controlling centre midfielder. Nobody else.

We haven't even got through the back six and already the gaps are evident.

Now, as you say, we can be pragmatic and do something different: Something less possession oriented, something more like a mid block with midfield counter pressing. I agree and I think Ten Hag should've switched to this long ago. However, lets be clear, that style of football is not high press, high possession football.

If the club wants to go in the direction of high press, high possession then it needs root and branch changes.
 
In my opinion:

GK
Onana - Keep
Bayindir - keep
Heaton - release. Promote Vitek

DF
Martínez - Keep
Varane - releasre
Maguire - Sell
Lindelöf - Sell
Evans - (extend a year)
Kambwala (Keep)
Dalot - Keep
Wan-Bissaka - Sell
Shaw (Keep as lcb/lb cover)

Malacia - probation for a season

MF
Casemiro - Sell
Amrabat - dont sign
McTominay - Sell
Eriksen - release/sale
Mainoo: Keep
Mount: Keep
Fernandes: Keep
Gore: Loan

ATTACK
Rashford - get rid now before his market value passes point of no return
Garnacho Keep
Hojlund - Keep
Antony - one more probation season
Amad - keep
Forson - Loan



fringe lads: Fernandez, Mejbri, Pellistri (sale)
Loan

that leaves:

Gk: Onana, Bayndir, Vitek
fb: Dalot, Shaw, Malacia
cb: Martinez, Kambwala, Evans
am: Bruno, Mount

wingers: Garnacho,Antony, Amad

Striker: Hoijlund
areas to strengthen:
Fullback
Center back
Defensive and center midfield
Winger
Striker

Focus:
Multi role players in midfield cb and wide. Who can play more than one role equally well

Signings:
Defence: Todibo (cb/Rb), Hincapie(LCB/LB)) Raul Bellanova (RB, DM, RW)


Midfield: A. Onana (DM, CM), Exequiel Palacios (DM/CM)

Winger: Nico Williams(rw/Malacia/ take Kubo (rw/LW)

Striker: Dominic Solanke (right/left winger, st)


Team: options

Team a

Onana

Dalot
Todibo
Martinez
Shaw/Hincapie

Mainoo
Onana

Take Kubo
Bruno
Garnacho

Hoijlund

Team b:
Bayindir

Raul Bellanova
Evans/Kambwala
Hincapie/Evans
Malacia/Hincapie

Palacios
Thuram

Antony/Amad
Mount
Williams

Solanke
 
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