Some perspective…

Thom Merrilin said:
There's a difference between an "excuse" and a "reason". The reason we've started this season so poorly is partly down to injuries. It's not an excuse it's just a fact. It doesn't excuse the players that are playing of their poor performances but it is the reason those sub par players are on the field to begin with. Get the idea?
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If we had quality in squad depth then those reasons wouldn't manifest themselves.
The blame for that sits squarely on the shoulders of the people responsible for putting this squad together.
I read today that EtH says in two seasons he hasn't been able to play his first choice 11, whose fault is that?

Then we have the Carrington curse, muscle injuries in training, that speaks of over training, or too much of the same type, where does the fault lie with that.
There are so many issues, it's impossible to put it down to one thing.
 
Kinky Melinky said:
ETH inherited a complete train-wreck which is why people calling for him to be sacked have no idea what they are talking about.
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This is perspective.

Too many man-babies who can’t see the bigger picture, constantly looking for someone to blame, round here.

Get out a bit, develop some other interests, move out of your parent’s house and enjoy life.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Im really not meant for social media to be honest. Some of the over reactive stuff I read on here is just…. Well unhealthy…..
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Aye, I'm not on any of it. Thank feck.

I like a whinge and a moan. But I just can't be arsed anymore. The levels of whinging and knee jerk reactions on here is almost too much now. Everytime you refresh the page there's another whinger posting another whinger thread.
 
el3mel said:
The injuries being all muscular are actually on the manager. He didn't prepare the team well during the preseason and our fitness level looks godawful. We run out of gas by midway in the first half ? We basically have enough energy in the tank to only play 20-30 minutes a game at most. This is on the manager failing to prepare his team for the season during summer.
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You're talking out of your ass. Not all injuries are muscular. We score 2 goals in the dying minutes yet we've run out of gas? Most of our goals are in the 2nd half.

Pre-season was definitely bad. Worst pre-season schedule I've seen for a team in my history of watching football. Thank Richard Arnold for that. Everything for the extra match day and commercial income. Discounting the weird Wrexham and Dublin match, which some players and staff did have to travel for, United traveled 38282 km by plane. If we discount the Oslo game and start with Lyon and Edinburg and end with Lens in Manchester that's 36000km in 14 days, 5 of those days playing in 5 different cities and 33 hours spent on an airplane. That's only 7 days of training, all of them jet lagged. This was deemed as a good idea following our longest season ever.
 
Matt Varnish said:
If we had quality in squad depth then those reasons wouldn't manifest themselves.
The blame for that sits squarely on the shoulders of the people responsible for putting this squad together.
I read today that EtH says in two seasons he hasn't been able to play his first choice 11, whose fault is that?

Then we have the Carrington curse, muscle injuries in training, that speaks of over training, or too much of the same type, where does the fault lie with that.
There are so many issues, it's impossible to put it down to one thing.
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Yeah I agree it's silly to pin the blame on any one or even two factors. Ten Hag takes at least some of the blame for sure but imo he's amongst the least of our issues.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Im really not meant for social media to be honest. Some of the over reactive stuff I read on here is just…. Well … I’m gonna call it unhealthy…..
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:lol:

Man I don't touch it. I cancelled my Facebook account about 6 months ago and it's been lovely. I don't touch Twitter or any other social media sites. Too many altering opinions, over-reactions, and extreme views that can be so overwhelming. It's not good for the old inner peace.
 
Snow said:
You're talking out of your ass. Not all injuries are muscular. We score 2 goals in the dying minutes yet we've run out of gas? Most of our goals are in the 2nd half.

Pre-season was definitely bad. Worst pre-season schedule I've seen for a team in my history of watching football. Thank Richard Arnold for that. Everything for the extra match day and commercial income. Discounting the weird Wrexham and Dublin match, which some players and staff did have to travel for, United traveled 38282 km by plane. If we discount the Oslo game and start with Lyon and Edinburg and end with Lens in Manchester that's 36000km in 14 days, 5 of those days playing in 5 different cities and 33 hours spent on an airplane. That's only 7 days of training, all of them jet lagged. This was deemed as a good idea following our longest season ever.
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You are acting like these goals came out of intense pressure from us or something. Bayern dominated the 2nd half and was just relaxing. When we scored they pressed us for few seconds and immediately regained their lead in no time.
 
el3mel said:
You are acting like these goals came out of intense pressure from us or something. Bayern dominated the 2nd half and was just relaxing. When we scored they pressed us for few seconds and immediately regained their lead in no time.
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Yeah they can turn on the style like flicking a switch. Just a different level. Hopefully in seasons to come we can reach this but it won't happen overnight. ETH needs time.
 
Matt Varnish said:
If we had quality in squad depth then those reasons wouldn't manifest themselves.
The blame for that sits squarely on the shoulders of the people responsible for putting this squad together.
I read today that EtH says in two seasons he hasn't been able to play his first choice 11, whose fault is that?

Then we have the Carrington curse, muscle injuries in training, that speaks of over training, or too much of the same type, where does the fault lie with that.
There are so many issues, it's impossible to put it down to one thing.
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We brought a lot of quality in squad depth. That gets decimated when you have 12 senior players out.
 
At the end of the season, looking back, losing to Arsenal, Spurs and Brighton and Bayern are not disastrous results.

But that was the last big/decent team United play now for a good while.

Burnley
Palace x2
Galatasaray
Brentford
Sheffield
Copenhagen

Sort it out now! No more fecking up! 7 Wins!
 
Andersonson said:
He uses the same system, no matter who is available or whoever the opponents are. Loses after loses. This is on him, a good manager finds a way and changes things up.

If he doesnt win the 3 next games his position should really be up for discussion
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This just isn't true. We've played three distinct systems so far this season. 433 to begin with until the mount injury. Then the same 4231 as last season. Finally, a diamond midfield against Brighton just a few days ago.

If anything he's making too many changes to the system.
 
Kinky Melinky said:
Nah I don't think it's excuses FC. The reality is that we have a stupid number of players injured and our squad isn't good enough. No excuses there. That's just how it is. ETH inherited a complete train-wreck which is why people calling for him to be sacked have no idea what they are talking about. It's going to take about 5 - 6 seasons for United to undo the total mess we're in. We're absolutely screwed once the injuries hit, but building that strength in depth takes time. It's a pain in the hole having to sit through it, but it is what it is.
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Unfortunately ETH is a victim of his own success last season, people were willing to accept we were a mess back then and there were posts and articles talking about the great job he'd done turning us around.

The problem is, he did that by taking the pragmatic approach after getting the squad on side, and played a much less proactive system to accommodate our players and their deficiencies. But he's here to move us away from that kind of football, and he won't be able to do that by constantly having to set the team up to sit deep when players that are first choice are injured.

Even despite that we're actually really good at winning the ball high in dangerous areas, we're just rubbish at using it. Tonight was another great example.
 
We are never going get anywhere with the constant cycle of sacking and hiring someone else and then completely rebuilding again.

Artetas first few seasons were horrible and look where the are with some paitience, Fergie aswell back in the day.

The structure is rotten, we can't keep scapegoating managers.

We need to accept where we are.
 
Bwuk said:
These threads seem to pop up far too often.

Excuses FC. It’s been far from good enough. Footballs a squad game, and we’ve assembled a very poor one for the money spent.
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We're still stuck with some players from previous regimes.

Some are not good enough. Some are not giving it 100% and others just don't want to be at United or they happy just collecting a paycheck.

We're also hit with injuries.

Even Pep would struggle with all this.
 
el3mel said:
You are acting like these goals came out of intense pressure from us or something. Bayern dominated the 2nd half and was just relaxing. When we scored they pressed us for few seconds and immediately regained their lead in no time.
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Once 3-1 up they were dominating.That's what goals allow.

I'm convinced half the posters here think goals don't and shouldn't have an impact on how a game plays out. Goals are everything.

This is why I'm still optimistic. For various reasons goals in either box just haven't come at the right time for us. Some of it our responsibility but some just plain bad luck.

This will change especially with injured players returning.
 
Matt Varnish said:
If we had quality in squad depth then those reasons wouldn't manifest themselves.
The blame for that sits squarely on the shoulders of the people responsible for putting this squad together.
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I mean in the interests of fairness there's quality in depth and then there's an absolutely ridiculous injury list. We've got both of our main full backs out, our best centre back out, another full back out, three midfielders out, a winger injured and two wingers "unavailable" and we've been missing our new striker until the last week or so.

It's a bit like taking Walker, Ake, Akanji, Dias, Kovacic, Silva, Nunes, Foden, Grealish, Doku & Haaland out of City's team. Which for the record would give a team something like Ederson; Lewis, Stones, Gvardiol, Garcia; Rodri; Bobb, Phillips, De Bruyne, Perrone; Alvarez.

Edit - scratch that Perrone is out on loan so they'd have to play another academy lad there. Wiki suggests Ben Knight or Nico O'Reilly.
 
CM10 said:
There are a lot of injuries but that's why we have a squad. A lot of the defensive errors we've been making are so basic and they were happening even when Wan-Bissaka, Varane and Shaw were all available.

The midfield in front of them is a huge worry and the manager has to take accountability for that too. We've been haemorrhaging chances every game this season and that has only been exacerbated by the system we're trying to play. It's not working.
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Only just. We had 3 goalkeepers on our bench tonight. Our only sub defender was Johnny Evans!
 
Marwood said:
Once 3-1 up they were dominating.That's what goals allow.

I'm convinced half the posters here think goals don't and shouldn't have an impact on how a game plays out. Goals are everything.

This is why I'm still optimistic. For various reasons goals in either box just haven't come at the right time for us. Some of it our responsibility but some just plain bad luck.

This will change especially with injured players returning.
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Bayern were under no threat to concede an equalizer during the entire game, and they weren't even playing well today so imagine if they were.
 
el3mel said:
You are acting like these goals came out of intense pressure from us or something. Bayern dominated the 2nd half and was just relaxing. When we scored they pressed us for few seconds and immediately regained their lead in no time.
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Their first goal came out of nothing but a goalkeeping mistake. Until then they weren't doing anything at all. They were in fact bad. Then we're trailing and considering the slump we're in, mentally it was like getting kicked in the stomach when already on the ground.

How can we change the game? The options on the bench aren't really there. Jonny Evans is the only fit defender not playing. How many teams have already used 9 different defenders this season? The only reason we haven't used 10 is because the 10th has been injured the whole time.

What about midfield? McTominay, Hannibal and Dan Gore. That's it. McT and Hannibal aren't going to make our midfield more defensively sound and Gore is there to make up the numbers on the bench, numbers we managed to make up by having 3 goalkeepers.

Chasing some goals? We've got Martial, Garnacho and Forson. Pretty much one good option and Martial is going to come on because Hojlund isn't fit for 90 minutes yet. Yes, our starting lineup isn't even fully fit.

We started the game great. We were robbed of a goal after 4 minutes and who knows how the game would have played out. Would have been much better for our mental. Probably would have turned Bayern on but at least that would have happened in a positition we could take better advantage off. Chasing a lead means we're taking chances and opening ourselves up. Bayern having to do that means we could have been the ones counter-attacking into open spaces against the likes of Upemecano who's an accident waiting to happen.
 
Thom Merrilin said:
This just isn't true. We've played three distinct systems so far this season. 433 to begin with until the mount injury. Then the same 4231 as last season. Finally, a diamond midfield against Brighton just a few days ago.

If anything he's making too many changes to the system.
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Formations yes, thats a tiny bit of the tactial approach.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
We had our share of injury crisis' with Ferguson, but he managed.
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Not this bad and it definitely did have an inpact on results. I watched us go out of Europe in the mid 90's because we had 1 or 2 missing never mind 10.

el3mel said:
Bayern were under no threat to concede an equalizer during the entire game, and they weren't even playing well today so imagine if they were.
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Like I said, goals change games. We were probably the better team and should have been ahead until Onana chucked one in.

Same against Brighton until they scored with their first attack.

Positive signs but yeah, we really need to sort out both penalty areas. It's killing a lot of the good stuff we do.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
I get that we didn’t start the season especially great (putting it mildly) but those blaming tactics or the manager need to have a rethink simply down to the injuries / overhaul we’ve had in our defensive unit.

3 of our starting back four are injured, and a new GK is trying to settle in to THAT context, effectively making it 4 out of our starting back 5 (from last season) that are out.

Name me a clubs that wouldn’t have issues with replacing their starting GK and then losing 3 out of your back four…
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Sounds more like excuses than ‘perspective’ to me.
 
Snow said:
Their first goal came out of nothing but a goalkeeping mistake. Until then they weren't doing anything at all. They were in fact bad. Then we're trailing and considering the slump we're in, mentally it was like getting kicked in the stomach when already on the ground.

How can we change the game? The options on the bench aren't really there. Jonny Evans is the only fit defender not playing. How many teams have already used 9 different defenders this season? The only reason we haven't used 10 is because the 10th has been injured the whole time.

What about midfield? McTominay, Hannibal and Dan Gore. That's it. McT and Hannibal aren't going to make our midfield more defensively sound and Gore is there to make up the numbers on the bench, numbers we managed to make up by having 3 goalkeepers.

Chasing some goals? We've got Martial, Garnacho and Forson. Pretty much one good option and Martial is going to come on because Hojlund isn't fit for 90 minutes yet. Yes, our starting lineup isn't even fully fit.

We started the game great. We were robbed of a goal after 4 minutes and who knows how the game would have played out. Would have been much better for our mental. Probably would have turned Bayern on but at least that would have happened in a positition we could take better advantage off. Chasing a lead means we're taking chances and opening ourselves up. Bayern having to do that means we could have been the ones counter-attacking into open spaces against the likes of Upemecano who's an accident waiting to happen.
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We played well for 20 minutes then collapsed once something happened against us. After that Bayern were under no threat for the rest of the game. Is that the excuse now? Things need to be aligned for us to keep on playing well. We concede a goal via a goalkeeper mistake (his signing by the way), so fecking what? It happens. The team should be prepared for something like that instead of acting shell shocked we went one goal down at Bayern away and immediately collapsing.

For the rest of the game Bayern came under zero pressure or threat to concede equalizer. It was comfortable business for them when we had a chance to return to the game, they just shifted their gears for few second and immediately regained their lead up.

That's what we are reduced for: 20-30 minutes of good performance then completely throwing everything out of the window when something goes wrong. It's Bayern away, for God sake. The team should be fully prepared to go one goal down at any point.

The rest of your post isn't really the main point of discussion anyway. Our crap fitness level which resulted in all these muscular injuries piling up that early is on the manager failing to prepare the team well for the season. That's his job as a coach, to get his team fit enough to start the season. You guys can keep on giving him excuses for not doing his job properly as much as you want, it won't change much
 
redcucumber said:
Only just. We had 3 goalkeepers on our bench tonight. Our only sub defender was Johnny Evans!
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I'm speaking from a perspective of Dalot, Lindelof and Reguilon starting for us. We should be able to start any of those players without completely falling apart, even if we have been unlucky to have all those defenders out at the same time. Any more injuries in defence and we are completely fecked though!
 
Marwood said:
Not this bad and it definitely did have an inpact on results. I watched us go out of Europe in the mid 90's because we had 1 or 2 missing never mind 10.



Like I said, goals change games. We were probably the better team and should have been ahead until Onana chucked one in.

Same against Brighton until they scored with their first attack.

Positive signs but yeah, we really need to sort out both penalty areas. It's killing a lot of the good stuff we do.
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We were good for few minutes at the start then collapsed when something went against us. If anything it's pretty bad sign the team isn't prepared for alternative scenarios happening.

It's Bayern away. The team should be mentally ready to deal with going a goal down and act on this basic, not going shocked then collapsing because something negative happened for us during the course of the game.

Unfortunately the game consists of 90 minutes not just 20.
 
Andersonson said:
Formations yes, thats a tiny bit of the tactial approach.
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Do I really need to explain that we play differently when we set up in different ways?

We've seen the full backs either play inverted like Dalot or as traditional wing backs like Reguilon and Wan Bissaka.

The ways in which you can press also changes dramatically depending on how you set up. We pressed Tottenham and Nottingham Forrest quite well in the 433 shape but haven't been able to press as well since we switched away from it.
 
el3mel said:
We were good for few minutes at the start then collapsed when something went against us. If anything it's pretty bad sign the team isn't prepared for alternative scenarios happening.

It's Bayern away. The team should be mentally ready to deal with going a goal down and act on this basic, not going shocked then collapsing because something negative happened for us during the course of the game.

Unfortunately the game consists of 90 minutes not just 20.
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I thought they did keep going. I've got no complaints about attitude tonight.

Loads of injuires, a goalkeeper error, a harsh pen and they still go right to the end, score three and at least make it entertaining.
 
el3mel said:
We played well for 20 minutes then collapsed once something happened against us. After that Bayern were under no threat for the rest of the game. Is that the excuse now? Things need to be aligned for us to keep on playing well. We concede a goal via a goalkeeper mistake (his signing by the way), so fecking what? It happens. The team should be prepared for something like that instead of acting shell shocked we went one goal down at Bayern away and immediately collapsing.

For the rest of the game Bayern came under zero pressure or threat to concede equalizer. It was comfortable business for them when we had a chance to return to the game, they just shifted their gears for few second and immediately regained their lead up.

That's what we are reduced for: 20-30 minutes of good performance then completely throwing everything out of the window when something goes wrong. It's Bayern away, for God sake. The team should be fully prepared to go one goal down at any point.

The rest of your post isn't really the main point of discussion anyway. Our crap fitness level which resulted in all these muscular injuries piling up that early is on the manager failing to prepare the team well for the season. That's his job as a coach, to get his team fit enough to start the season. You guys can keep on giving him excuses for not doing his job properly as much as you want, it won't change much
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How did they concede thrice? You're aware you don't have to speak in absolutes. Zero pressure, all muscular injuries. Reign it back and stop purposely typing incorrect shit.

The rest of my post is a response to what you brought up, blaming the pre-season. I don't know what you do for a living but a lot of people have jobs that have impossible standards. You keep on talking about fitness level and injuries like you have a clue. You have no idea why players got injured. You don't know what the fitness training is like, if it's too intense or not too intense. You see thunder and conclude that god must be bowling. It's just pure guesswork on your part because you're looking for someone to blame. Everything around you always smells like shit. Try taking a whiff of yourself.
 
Pellistri v Davies could be called a pen but haven't seen a decent angle yet , Davies looks guilty. Ignored by Var
Musiala build up to second goal is a handball in there by him. Ignored by var.

Yes Onana had a mistake for first but he isn't the problem
Our players tracking back is a problem.
Look at the space for second goal. We sort this nonsense out as team and we will get better.
It a tough time at the moment but we will move on and returning A players will help.
 
Thom Merrilin said:
There's a difference between an "excuse" and a "reason". The reason we've started this season so poorly is partly down to injuries. It's not an excuse it's just a fact. It doesn't excuse the players that are playing of their poor performances but it is the reason those sub par players are on the field to begin with. Get the idea?
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No, not really. Our squad, even with current injuries should be capable of accumulating more than 6 points out of 15, while barely putting together a good 45 minutes of football in all that time. Yes, it's partly due to injuries I agree, but we can and should be doing a lot better than this. Both the players & manager should be held accountable.
 
Snow said:
How did they concede thrice? You're aware you don't have to speak in absolutes. Zero pressure, all muscular injuries. Reign it back and stop purposely typing incorrect shit.

The rest of my post is a response to what you brought up, blaming the pre-season. I don't know what you do for a living but a lot of people have jobs that have impossible standards. You keep on talking about fitness level and injuries like you have a clue. You have no idea why players got injured. You don't know what the fitness training is like, if it's too intense or not too intense. You see thunder and conclude that god must be bowling. It's just pure guesswork on your part because you're looking for someone to blame. Everything around you always smells like shit. Try taking a whiff of yourself.
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Bayern were relaxing and playing with the least possible effort during the 2nd half. Our goals didn't come from any sort of pressure from us. They came because the other team stopped caring It reminds of me of the 6-3 result against City when we got two consolation goals at the end because City stepped off the gas and the end result ended up looking better that what it should have been. Bayern will celebrate the east victory while United will keep on talking about those 20 minutes and the 2 useless goals.

Muscular injuries are a sign of poor fitness level and poor preparation. Finding someone to blame for this is better than acting than buring your head in the sand it's all luck that led us to have so many muscular injuries at the start of a season and that Gods hate Ten Hag.

Everything about the club is actually shit. It's just people like you pretending otherwise to feel better about the whole thing. We are going nowhere and it's very evident. Was present under Ole when his cult kept defending him and attacking anyone who dared to say that, and it's evident under Ten Hag now but people won't want to believe because most of you consider him as United last resort for success so won't give up on him easily even when it's very clear he's, at the very best, an average or below average coach.
 
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