And Liverpool. Despite them as it stands not actually having a DM.
Sofyan Amrabat | signs for United on loan
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And Liverpool. Despite them as it stands not actually having a DM.
I think scouts and coaches know how to interpret stats. Watch Amrabat play and you don‘t see someone who is bad at tackling, but quite good.
His tackle succes rate is higher than Cas and remember, for Fiorentina he played next to another dm.
Lets hope so, even though the business of the last years tells me that premature trust isn't something that our scouting department would deserve.
Just had a look, don't even really know, who Amrabat is playing next to but those CMs there all look pretty dire in terms of defensive stats... Best one would be Benassi and he also only has semi-decent looking stats that are based on only 1000 minutes. I hope, the player isn't set up to fail here... I mean, he gets described like a player most teams would be after. Especially for the price. And additionally, the Italian League teams are notorious for going for talent from their own league, so how hasn't Inter or Juve tapped him up already 1st day of the window. This is odd at least.
Just to make sure: I like the idea of adding a player like him to the team, would have wanted us to bring him in for the Eriksen spot. But as this seems to be closed down by Mount, I am a bit skeptical about him as a Casemiro add-on or cover (mostly considering how instrumental Casemiro seems to be for our system). Would have expected us to go for somebody who is more similar in terms of defensive output.
We need cover for Cas and Amrabat offers more than just cover for him. It is a no-brainer for me. Last season McT or Bruno were cover for Cas, so it would be a big improvement in that sense.
He adds squad depth and squad width in terms of abilities.
Let’s face it, he doesn’t give a shit about his fbref profile.
All depends on the system and how he plays in Fiorentina, as he might have played different in Morocco NT
We desperately need some outgoings in order for this move to get any traction
I had my doubts on this, but actually think it worked pretty well today against a good Lens side. We need to be better in possession deeper and Amrabaat will do that, so I'm starting to come around to it.
What worries me, if we assume it's true that outgoings are needed in this case, is that the club is not utterly confident in making those sales.
Maybe I'm wrong but United ain't a corner shop where everything is about the balance of cashflow you have in the counter at this very moment. Any sales would be put in the books for August whether they're done today or at the 15th, likewise for the sum of buying Amrabat's contract.
In short they're not 100% sure 35 or so millions more are coming in the coffers this window. Otherwise I think United could certainly afford to "advance" at least some of that.
Which I'm not surprised about really. The only sale that would cover it by itself is maybe McTominay. Or at least two of Maguire, Henderson, Fred... None have been particularly in demand and I think fees will probably disappoint at least slightly for the last three.
We need to sell Donny & Fred ASAP so can get this guy in between Wolves & Spurs
Yeah it's hard not to be seriously worried
Its more the fact we have too many numbers in midfield. Fernandes, Mount, Casemiro, Eriksen, VdB, mctominay, Fred, Hannibal, Mainoo. That's just too many.
Clearly does not work. Based on one pre season game. Well done. Fully in keeping with the fine Caf tradition of sweeping, definitive statements with little to no evidence. Jesus wept.
I'm sure we will, I'd be surprised if his team just put everything on hold with out good assurances there would be movement soon.
I also thought for the first time we've done it, it looked pretty damned good!
I agree. It’ll get better with time too. Some people just have an agenda against the Mount signing and have already made up their mind. Not to be moved. They’ve already made judgement and are just waiting for the first opportunity to spew it everywhere.
The problem is too many of them are below the required standard. If we want to improve the squad three have to go, plus one out on loan. Meanwhile we should bring in Amrabat or someone of that quality. I have no clue about the financials but we shouldn’t wait around unless we have no choice. Do the sales later if necessary.
Exactly, the main thing is we can't be sloppy in possession now, so we should have squad depth to account for any fall off in standards in that - that includes Casemiro. Both CBs and GK swept really well and that understanding across the team will grow with time.
I agree with you & I would apply the same logic than for financial considerations : The club is not certain they can trim that fat this summer to make room for Amrabat.
I'm confident Fred will be sold, he's in his final year and is not in future plans. Maybe not at 15m£ though.
VDB needs an exit prompto and I say that with his own interest at heart. He's so into the pits I can't imagine it will be better than a loan (Sociedad?) with an option to buy.
That's the two most obvious to me... But can the club guarantee they'd achieve that by August 31 ?
You are much too forgiving with the united hierarchy! The whole situation is even more frustrating when you consider that the Onana-experiment also failed. I mean, what good is a so called progressive keeper, if this guy keeps getting lobbed every couple of games? And our third acquisition is never even fit. Sell Murtough, fire ten Hag!
Think they are just extra careful because of FFP limit and big spend this summer, normally they wouldnt be so timid. But could also be that Amrabat and Fiorentina already have a deal with us, just waiting for 100% confirmation on sales
Looking a big ask to get it sorted for then when we have no concrete movement on sales. Will be absolute sickener if we can't get him or Goretzka over the line by Sept 1
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Yeah the media have spewed it already and like you say many fans have made their mind up too
Ok then, personally don't think that the system dictates "all" but maybe some of you can describe the way Fiorentina plays (maybe a comparable team?) and how it is influencing the defensive aspects of their midfielders? (that is not a trick question, I am just curious)
Jeepers, talk about getting carried away! So going by this, he’s going to be lobbed 19 times in the league alone?! Relax buddy, any defence cannot afford to give balls away in those areas or you will be punished. Unfortunately though, Dalot is a regular gaffe lord, reminds me of Silvestre who was also good for a massive one every match.
I can just point to what others have written since I havent watched anything, but it seems that Fiorentina and Amrabat plays a double pivot with a defensive midfielder besides him, so if he is mostly tasked with progression it woulndt be strange if his defensive numbers are low
We hugely need this guy... Club has to seal it immediately
Need more quality in the middle... I have a feeling it'll go slow and we'll get him right before end of window. Why get him in quick and get any momentum early! lolol ugh
Some people seem to be very hung up on “numbers” and data profiles. You have to watch him really. I’ve only seen him a few times, four times maybe. He is not defensively weak at all. I would personally ignore the data because it usually isn’t being interpreted in context but I did see a video explaining he has high success rates with his defensive actions, so perhaps that is a comfort for any stats-obsessed folk.
In any case, when I saw him he stood out as a good player in the deeper part of midfield so I can understand EtH being interested in him. And I really can’t understand any anxiety based on his stats, I’m afraid.
Imo it is a bit fruitless trying to explain his stats. When you see him, he is a well-rounded player. Aggressive, confident, projects a strong personality, with a tangible will to win (to my eyes). A hard man. Very comfortable on the ball. Decent pace. Good at tackling. Half of that won’t show in the data anyway.
We could certainly do with bringing him it but isn’t it more down to us now moving players on first before bringing anyone else in as I’d imagine we’ve already spent our all our summer budget plus a bit more on top of that?
Probably so, but with Bruno and Mount, we still have the same same issues we have last season.. Very light weight midfield.
Amrabat is such a steel on the middle. Physicality in tough games will be solved 50% by him alone. He tackles well and he's not afraid to be in the mix of things. Martinez style.
I thought it was obvious enough that my post was not meant serious. Sarcasm on a internet forum never works, I guess.
We have just been given 3 shiny new toys to play with, and before they are even out of the box you want another one...greedy bastards!
Last post in this thread before he joins.
I am sure, he will add more to our general play than Eriksen is able to do these days so it is a certain win for the team. But even with him in the team, I would be worried about a Casemiro injury as I fear seeing us crumble when stuff gets to the thick end. But lets see how it plays out.
Ok got it. Thanks for the info. FYI I had a look at his team mates in midfield. None of them have good numbers defensively. One's is decent, maybe thats his partner. I also had a look about team possession, it is on the higher end in Serie A, but not the highest and more or less on paar with other teams close in league position. So those factors are certainly not self-explanatory for his lower numbers.
I guess I will at some point close from now as I am pretty sure, he will end up here. And I like the idea of adding him only to get this out of the way. I also don't think, it makes sense to paint a picture of being "very hung up on numbers and data profiles". Lets get this clear - you watched him 4(!!!!) times. I can give you 4 games of McTominay where he looked like Gullit. Would probably even able to provide you with 4 consecutive games of Fred (doable but a hard job) where he looked really good. If you watch him and decide that he has this or that characteristic, that is great. Appreciate you sharing that. As I haven't seen him play apart from WC, I have to go for other methods. So I look at general interest in the player and his stats. Lets not depict that as some insane extremist position.
It would be somewhat plausible. Though not absolutely. I mean, if I only attempt tackles I am sure to win and never a fifty-fifty I could have a high success rate as well. Lets see how it works out. As I said, I like the player in general. And will use the opportunity to learn about applicability of stats when transfering from one team to the other.
Well thats fine, you don't have to understand it. He is certainly an interesting player because his ball progression is really really good. Thats why I would have went for him anyway. I am questioning other aspects of his play.
Only to round it up and close this circle because we have gone through it more than once: the player you are describing would and should be on the radar of multiple sides right now. He might not be playing for a side that ended up 9th, 13th, 7th and 8th in his league since he is there (not a dig, don't know much about Fiorentinas resources). His reasonable price should only add to his pull. But apart from some small things here and there, the only other interest that has been reported (afaik) have been ours and Saudi Arabia.
I am sure, he will add more to our general play than Eriksen is able to do these days so it is a certain win for the team. But even with him in the team, I would be worried about a Casemiro injury as I fear seeing us crumble when stuff gets to the thick end. But lets see how it plays out.
I agree let’s see. If we even get him.
And just to add, I shouldn’t have said “hung up” I should have said “particularly interested” in data etc. No problem, just not my bag, I prefer watching a guy a few times over stats. Fair comment about a few cherry-picked McFred games, they occasionally look decent at what they do but they have different qualities.
Again, we hope to see Amrabat here soon. We’ll watch him for four games and compare notes!
Like that absolute plonker who kept saying Casemiro was bad and Liverpool had made a much better signing in Arthur, then disappeared for six months, only to come back after case had a bad game to go "I'm still right!"
That’s what makes him fun!
I really don't understand getting hung up on a transfer based on whether there's been reported interest from other clubs or not. What gets reported in the media about transfers is notoriously unreliable, and only ever covers a fraction of what actually goes on behind the scenes between players, agents and clubs. There's all sorts of informal and unreported contact where a club will sound out a player's interest in a move, or enquire about the rough terms/affordability of a deal etc with the selling club. For all we know other clubs may have enquired and been told he's only interested in a move to another league, or that the selling club only wants to sell outside the league. Using the fact that there hasn't been certain media reports as some kind of metric for gauging a transfer is just odd. It tells you little to nothing about whether a particular player is a sensible transfer option for our squad and our manager.
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