Sofyan Amrabat | 2023/24 Performances

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True for this game but Maguire is not the regular starter, it's Martinez. So long as Casemiro and Varane play, I'm happy with our areial prowress. The issue is when we replace Case with Amrabat, which will happen in some games.

I would rather see them both play together and Martinez stepping into midfield with his passing cutting through the lines, Amrabat or Casemiro can then cover for him and the rotation of these players start to make us a really difficult team to play against.
 
oh dear, there’s a reason he barely got noticed outside of a WC run. I get that you are desperate for the signing to work out as united have struggled with good signings and fingers crossed he does well but we have a lot more performances outside his WC suggesting he is often anonymous. I’ll take the fans words over yours easily.




You want to overhype against crystal palace’s b team be my guest. I think Barca dodged a bullet. I get united desperately need some signings to work out with how the season has gone so far so people will grasp onto anything.

@zaafi here are more stats for you:

https://tribuna.com/amp/en/news/liv...-as-he-is-with-morocco-at-world-cup-answered/

And maybe he does become good for united, all the best with him, but overhyping against a very poor palace B team is funny. But again, with how bad United’s start this season has been I know people understandably really want him to work out and get the other players going in midfield.
Can you please stop? let us have our saviour moment
 
amrabat was actually quite poor outside of the WC. The WC boosted his stock, on club level he hasn’t been very good at all
Like you I watch Fiorentina too. This statement is false and has been peddled around a lot.
He has been a stand out midfielder last season in the Serie A. Unless you don’t understand the role of a defensive midfielder, you can’t be labelling him underwhelming.
 
One of my friends is a big fiorentina fan, I’ve watched their matches more than any other serie A team because of him.

their fans were very happy to see him go. Doesn’t mean he’ll be bad for united, but he’s been fairly wank a heck of a lot more than he was good. Very error prone.
Pinochino you nose is getting bigger :lol:

what an absolute load of rubbish.

Was one of the best midfielders in serie A last season and his stats support that.
 
So he speaks English, Dutch, Arabic, and French?
Does he speak Italian?
He doesn't speak French and Arabic, AFAIK he speaks Amazigh, Dutch and English but probably Italian as well.
 
It was apparently our ‘Scouting Department’ that said he wasn’t suitable for English football…

That probably caused internal debate and delay.
The source was the Muppetiers and there's plenty of examples of them being wrong from when they were on reddit spreading supposed ITK news.
 
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I watched Fiorentina a lot. Thats how I know Mandragora is a better midfielder who can also do the 30 yard passes Amrabat does and why I wasnt impressed with us going for him. He didnt stand out at Fiorentina while players like Castrovilli and Mandragora who also play in midfield for them do. Theres also Bonaventura having a great time but he's too old to be a target. Its very weird when people who havent taken the time to watch him over a period make comments like this. Self report really.

Its also why I suggested Lucas Quarta Martinez as a CB upgrade before this summer. He's started the season like he was last season, outstanding for them. A few more - Was watching when Fiorentina were struggling for a striker and started giving Vlahovic games. They kept being linked with strikers but he looked good enough to me. Also was a big fan of Chiesa back when we were linked with Sancho and thought Milenkovic was overrated. But yeah I guess ive never seen Amrabat play
Okay, I was more than willing to believe our recruitment messed up given our history with midfielders, so I checked on Mandragora, but... does he just do a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet or something?

Passing (Mandragora left, Amrabat right):
pass-comp.png

Possession:
poss-comp.png

Defending:
def-comp.png

Worse at short, medium and long passing (check out that 60% success rate on long!), seems to have a higher proportion of his touches in the attacking third rather than defensive, isn't much of a carrier, defensively doesn't seem a whole lot different to Amrabat either... he got 2 goals and 4 assists in Serie A last year, is that why he's a better midfielder? Doesn't seem a stand-out, at any rate.

I usually dislike these kind of stat-offs, but it seems a little bit of an egregious comparison in this case.
 
His long passes were great, he manage to find Dalot and Pellestri on numerous occasions. That's a proper footballer unlike McTominay who can pass for his life.
McT actually has a good passing range he just doesn’t get on the ball.
 
He hides from the ball.
I just don’t think he understands how to play the role of a CM who needs to get on the ball and dictate play, he’s never been coached in that way and is much more of a basic box to box. Not his fault but it is what it is and I think he’s too old to change his positional instincts. You see him ask for the ball a lot he’s just in rubbish positions.
 
That's interesting. Based on his stats, he very rarely miscontrols the ball and is seldom dispossessed. He is also one of the best midfielders in the world in terms of possession and passing, and is in 3rd percentile for errors. So either you're lying or you're watching a different player than Amrabat.

Haven’t watched a single Napoli game but you’ll want to be in high percentile if you don’t make many errors. So in the 3rd percentile he is statistically one of the bottom 3%. 99th percentile are those that don’t make any errors at all.
 
McT actually has a good passing range he just doesn’t get on the ball.
I've seen that man misplace a 5 yard pass to his midfield partner more often than I can count, so in a way you are right - or perhaps a more accurate word is a 'varied' passing range
 
Haven’t watched a single Napoli game but you’ll want to be in high percentile if you don’t make many errors. So in the 3rd percentile he is statistically one of the bottom 3%. 99th percentile are those that don’t make any errors at all.

Yes, you're right. I don't know why I got that one mixed up. However, if you look up his errors, it's still only 0.11 errors per 90 minutes, and the one that ranks the highest for most errors would be 0.24 per 90 min. I'm not really sure how they track this, as surely there are midfielders that make more than 0.24 mistakes per game.
 
Case-Amrabat is exactly what we need away to the better teams. You never know, we might actually beat a top-9 team away at some point this season!

Agreed. And I agree with all the caveats stated here that Crystal Palace weren't exactly prime Barcelona opposition, but CP is a decent barometer of midtable PL opposition who on any day can snatch an improbable win over a top club but obviously on this day weren't at the races. With the gradual but inevitable decline of Eriksen we need the shot in the arm that Amrabat is. You don't want to get hopes up too high, but by taking just that edge of pressure of Casemiro the wily Brazilian can express himself better as he did yesterday.
 
Agreed. And I agree with all the caveats stated here that Crystal Palace weren't exactly prime Barcelona opposition, but CP is a decent barometer of midtable PL opposition who on any day can snatch an improbable win over a top club but obviously on this day weren't at the races. With the gradual but inevitable decline of Eriksen we need the shot in the arm that Amrabat is. You don't want to get hopes up too high, but by taking just that edge of pressure of Casemiro the wily Brazilian can express himself better as he did yesterday.
I think we wait till the weekend to use CP asa a barometer in this way. They were off it and they were not at full strength.
 
Yes, you're right. I don't know why I got that one mixed up. However, if you look up his errors, it's still only 0.11 errors per 90 minutes, and the one that ranks the highest for most errors would be 0.24 per 90 min. I'm not really sure how they track this, as surely there are midfielders that make more than 0.24 mistakes per game.

No idea either tbf. Found this on the athletic:


Currently, there are subjective measures for errors leading to a shot or a goal that are collected, and of all outfield players this season, Jan Bednarek has earned the wooden spoon, helping Southampton’s opponents score three goals due to his mistakes. These are usually errors which help the opposition score out of a situation where it never looked possible — a weak back-pass to the goalkeeper that is intercepted, leading to a one-on-one, for example.

These mistakes are few and far between, and either happen at random, or not enough of them happen in a season, such that they are a reliable means of comparing all defenders through this lens. An ideal measurement instead are the subtle moves (or lack thereof) that lead to an opponent being able to score.”

https://theathletic.com/1763286/2020/04/23/bad-stats-but-good-player-analysis/?amp=1
 
I just don’t think he understands how to play the role of a CM who needs to get on the ball and dictate play, he’s never been coached in that way and is much more of a basic box to box. Not his fault but it is what it is and I think he’s too old to change his positional instincts. You see him ask for the ball a lot he’s just in rubbish positions.
I think the same as well.
 
Okay, I was more than willing to believe our recruitment messed up given our history with midfielders, so I checked on Mandragora, but... does he just do a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet or something?

Passing (Mandragora left, Amrabat right):
pass-comp.png

Possession:
poss-comp.png

Defending:
def-comp.png

Worse at short, medium and long passing (check out that 60% success rate on long!), seems to have a higher proportion of his touches in the attacking third rather than defensive, isn't much of a carrier, defensively doesn't seem a whole lot different to Amrabat either... he got 2 goals and 4 assists in Serie A last year, is that why he's a better midfielder? Doesn't seem a stand-out, at any rate.

I usually dislike these kind of stat-offs, but it seems a little bit of an egregious comparison in this case.

I said he can play the same 30 yard passes not that he stands on the half way line playing balls from deep constantly like Amrabat. They played in the same team plenty of times. Mandragora has the same range of passes ie. you will see him switch the ball from the left to the right like Amrabat, but unlike Amrabat he wants to get forward and shoot and create chances. Thats where he has more to his game and why he has over 3 times as many key passes as Amrabat per 90 mins

 
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There is not a single Fiorentina fan that would rate Mandragora over Amrabat. Be serious. It's fine that you don't agree with us going for Amrabat, but rating Mandragora - a nothing midfielder who would struggle breaking into Nottingham Forest's midfield (he also couldn't break into Juventus' average midfield) - over Amrabat is lunacy. Bonaventura is an understandable shout - a much better player than Mandragora, but even then, he's not better than Amrabat.

According to yourself, you've watched a lot of Fiorentina, but I guess you're just really poor at recognising a player's abilities.

Ridiculous. Also they wouldnt have sent Mandragora out on loan because they actually need him and they're doing better with Arthur who failed at Juventus and Liverpool playing where Amrabat got his games.

Fiorentina's Serie A stats this season with 5 played for them and 6 for some others

94c8888f5a06b058e0bc4218d773f19a.png
 
Ridiculous. Also they wouldnt have sent Mandragora out on loan because they actually need him and they're doing better with Arthur who failed at Juventus and Liverpool playing where Amrabat got his games.

Fiorentina's Serie A stats this season with 5 played for them and 6 for some others

94c8888f5a06b058e0bc4218d773f19a.png

Are you actually trying to have a conversation where the topic of the debate is that Mandragora is a good midfielder? He's an injury prone, mediocre midfielder who no particular strengths, except a hard shot. He is a terrible passer, and even comparing him to Amrabat in that aspect is frankly laughable. There is a reason Fiorentina don't use him as a focal point of possession, and would rather use Arthur for that.

What is the point of those statistics? They tell me absolutely nothing. Ah, 7 yellow cards, aerials won and 83.3% pass completion? Most useless statistics to prove a point. They've also conceded 9 goals in 5 games and are 6th on the table behind Lecce.
 
Are you actually trying to have a conversation where the topic of the debate is that Mandragora is a good midfielder? He's an injury prone, mediocre midfielder who no particular strengths, except a hard shot. He is a terrible passer, and even comparing him to Amrabat in that aspect is frankly laughable. There is a reason Fiorentina don't use him as a focal point of possession, and would rather use Arthur for that.

What is the point of those statistics? They tell me absolutely nothing. Ah, 7 yellow cards, aerials won and 83.3% pass completion? Most useless statistics to prove a point. They've also conceded 9 goals in 5 games and are 6th on the table behind Lecce.

Not anymore, its best to block trolls. Off you go
 
Not anymore, its best to block trolls. Off you go

I said he can play the same 30 yard passes not that he stands on the half way line playing balls from deep constantly like Amrabat. They played in the same team plenty of times. Mandragora has the same range of passes ie. you will see him switch the ball from the left to the right like Amrabat, but unlike Amrabat he wants to get forward and shoot and create chances. Thats where he has more to his game and why he has over 3 times as many key passes as Amrabat per 90 mins



He wants to get forward, shoot and create chances. Yet, these are his statistics from last season:

2 goals, 4 assists and 34 chances created. In Serie A. Add his lack of passing, technicality, dribbling, drive with the ball, press resistance and physicality along with that, and you'll find one of the most mediocre midfielders in all of Serie A.

Just stop.

Amrabat was wanted by 4 top clubs. Mandragora was not wanted by anyone.
 
He wants to get forward, shoot and create chances. Yet, these are his statistics from last season:

2 goals, 4 assists and 34 chances created. In Serie A. Add his lack of passing, technicality, dribbling, drive with the ball, press resistance and physicality along with that, and you'll find one of the most mediocre midfielders in all of Serie A.

Just stop.

Amrabat was wanted by 4 top clubs. Mandragora was not wanted by anyone.
Don’t know what Ekeke beef is with amrabat. Anyone with a set of eyes without even looking at stats would know he is perfect for us and is an elite midfielder. Or maybe I’m not getting Ekeke sarcasm? :confused:
 
I've seen that man misplace a 5 yard pass to his midfield partner more often than I can count, so in a way you are right - or perhaps a more accurate word is a 'varied' passing range
If only McT could get the ball more
 
Are you actually trying to have a conversation where the topic of the debate is that Mandragora is a good midfielder? He's an injury prone, mediocre midfielder who no particular strengths, except a hard shot. He is a terrible passer, and even comparing him to Amrabat in that aspect is frankly laughable. There is a reason Fiorentina don't use him as a focal point of possession, and would rather use Arthur for that.

What is the point of those statistics? They tell me absolutely nothing. Ah, 7 yellow cards, aerials won and 83.3% pass completion? Most useless statistics to prove a point. They've also conceded 9 goals in 5 games and are 6th on the table behind Lecce.
I did find a player who had a similar passing profile, unfortunately it was Fred.
 
I just don’t think he understands how to play the role of a CM who needs to get on the ball and dictate play, he’s never been coached in that way and is much more of a basic box to box. Not his fault but it is what it is and I think he’s too old to change his positional instincts. You see him ask for the ball a lot he’s just in rubbish positions.

I find it really wierd that he do not understand the concept of make yourself available for passing the ball instead of standing behind opposition players?
 
I find it really wierd that he do not understand the concept of make yourself available for passing the ball instead of standing behind opposition players?
It’s more he can’t react to his passing lanes getting cut off, he’s not blind he’s just not very good because he’s never really had to do it.

He’s kind of the opposite of when VDB came here, he was running into all these little spaces and random angles and wanting the ball he just never got it because it would have been a pointless pass with how we played or people just didn’t see it.
 
Why do we always fight for everything?

Because there are tons of contrarian doomposters here who feel the need to argue in every thread that the manager is shite and every player bought is the worst player in the world, with obviously better players available for cheaper.
 
Don't bother arguing with Ekeke. Regularly has the worst takes on the forum.
 
It’s more he can’t react to his passing lanes getting cut off, he’s not blind he’s just not very good because he’s never really had to do it.

He’s kind of the opposite of when VDB came here, he was running into all these little spaces and random angles and wanting the ball he just never got it because it would have been a pointless pass with how we played or people just didn’t see it.

So i guess its time for him to move,he does not fit in with the team's playstyle.

And he looks like he don't care anymore to be honest either.
 
Okay, I was more than willing to believe our recruitment messed up given our history with midfielders, so I checked on Mandragora, but... does he just do a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet or something?

Passing (Mandragora left, Amrabat right):
pass-comp.png

Possession:
poss-comp.png

Defending:
def-comp.png

Worse at short, medium and long passing (check out that 60% success rate on long!), seems to have a higher proportion of his touches in the attacking third rather than defensive, isn't much of a carrier, defensively doesn't seem a whole lot different to Amrabat either... he got 2 goals and 4 assists in Serie A last year, is that why he's a better midfielder? Doesn't seem a stand-out, at any rate.

I usually dislike these kind of stat-offs, but it seems a little bit of an egregious comparison in this case.
Excellent post. Killed off that arguement.
 
So i guess its time for him to move,he does not fit in with the team's playstyle.

And he looks like he don't care anymore to be honest either.
I’d agree after that Bayern performance he genuinely seemed to be throwing in the towel.
 
Why do we always fight for everything?
To feign / flaunt being knowledgable I guess.

We’ve taken a player on loan. Let’s see how it goes - but this whole deep dive into Fiorentina FC and their litter of incredible midfielders we could have gotten - is tedious and irrelevant to say the least. Especially in a player performance thread.
 
I said he can play the same 30 yard passes not that he stands on the half way line playing balls from deep constantly like Amrabat. They played in the same team plenty of times. Mandragora has the same range of passes ie. you will see him switch the ball from the left to the right like Amrabat, but unlike Amrabat he wants to get forward and shoot and create chances. Thats where he has more to his game and why he has over 3 times as many key passes as Amrabat per 90 mins


I love how you change arguments and statistics to prove Mandragora is a better midfielder and fail every time.
 
We always get carried away after the first performance of new players. "Elite Midfielder"? He's just a slightly above-average midfielder.

We'll see how he does in big games.
 
We always get carried away after the first performance of new players. "Elite Midfielder"? He's just a slightly above-average midfielder.

We'll see how he does in big games.
I must admit I've been taken aback by the massive praise he's been getting. He looked competent and worked hard. These days that elevates you to Carrick and Scholes standards it seems.

I don't see anything special there, but I'm happy he's here and he's far better than McTominay and a better fit than Eriksen in many games.
 
I must admit I've been taken aback by the massive praise he's been getting. He looked competent and worked hard. These days that elevates you to Carrick and Scholes standards it seems.

I don't see anything special there, but I'm happy he's here and he's far better than McTominay and a better fit than Eriksen in many games.
That here says it all and that's why he was signed.
 
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