So who here wants Notre Dame to win Saturday?

kennyj said:
Actually, the sneak should have been from back another yard. The officials didn't spot the ball where it went out of bounds.

nope...I have the replay on mpeg...the ball is about 4 inches from the goal line when he is hit and the ball is knocked outdiagnolly, flying past the refs right leg, and the ref is at the goaline.

I think the rule should stand. The pros have the same rule. It's rarely called because it rarely happens. If it does happen, it's usually in the middle of the scrum and hard for the officials to see. Bush did it right out in the open. But as I said, I don't think rarely called penalties should decide a game (Like the Saint game yesterday).

About the ND excessive celebration - I hope you don't mean when the clock showed 0:00 and ND winning because everyone thought the game was over. That was the official's error and you can't penalize ND for that. They announced that ND would be penalized if the field wasn't cleared and everyone got off. That was no penalty. The bench clearing while there's time on the clock or another play to be run is a penalty.
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I do mean that. The referee signalled for time to be stopped when the ball went out of bounds. there was no refs error...he made the right call, waving the clock to be stopped, clear as day...every ND defender saw it...Zbigkowski(sp) said he knew there'd be another play because the ball went out with 7 seconds left. none of the ND defenders on the field started to celebrate because they all saw it.

everyone saw the ref put his foot down and wave the clock to stop.

ND bench players stormed the field first followed rapidly by the students. The time clock keeper ignored the ref and kept the clock running to zero even though it was clear the ball had gone out and the ref signalled.

either way, it delayed the game and was an excessive celebration and the ball had been out of bounds with 7 seconds left, despite what the clock said.
 
MrMarcello said:
Well, if I'm a HC/OC, from now on when the ball is inside the 1, I'll put a TE in the backfield and instruct him and the RB/FB to push the ball carrier towards the goal line. I know this "aided" play happens on some plays, SOME?!?!?!?! It happens regularly with a sneak...it happened during this USC-ND game too during one of Quinn's sneaks! it happens everywhere.

but I have seen refs spot the ball to the forward progress prior to where the teammate aided the runner. I have never seen a flag thrown, but why is it a rule if it is not enforced?

If the shoe was on the other foot, you can gaurantee that Flash and USC fans would be complaining.
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the shoe isn't on the other foot though. and we got screwed on two calls earlier in the game anyway, both led to Touchdowns.
 
Let us all agree on a couple of things:

1. Notre Dame is going to have a good future under Weis
2. USC got lucky this past weekend
3. The Trojans are, nonetheless, the best team in the country
 
FLASHWOK said:
jasonrh will be thrilled...he's from Florida and a fellow gator.
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Ya I did find out but he just left uni and I didn't have the chance to speak to him. I was there in UF when we had Emmitt Smith, happy days.

Don't know much now about college football and all I remember is we used to hate Tallahassee and Notre Dame.
 
FLASHWOK said:
I know this "aided" play happens on some plays, SOME?!?!?!?! It happens regularly with a sneak...it happened during this USC-ND game too during one of Quinn's sneaks! it happens everywhere.
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Oh christ...stop trying to find little things to bitch about. I said "some plays" meaning not every fecking offensive play... you stated sneaks...that would be "some plays" because a sneak is not run every fecking play.

Jesus H Christ.

feck.
 
MrMarcello said:
Oh christ...stop trying to find little things to bitch about. I said "some plays" meaning not every fecking offensive play... you stated sneaks...that would be "some plays" because a sneak is not run every fecking play.

Jesus H Christ.

feck.
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then don't be so nitpicky...everyone does it, it happens on sneaks, it happens on sweeps, it happens on purpose, it happens accidentally, it's football.

the rule is bullshit anyway...why should three players get to tackle someone, but 1 teamate can't help push a teammate? it's silly.
 
If the clock had shown 0:07, you would have a point. OK, it was clock-keeper error. Teams don't get penalized under those circumstances -ever.

Forget what everybody thought, knew or didn't know. The clock showed 0:00.

I never got a good angle of where the ball went out of bounds. It looked to me like it was about 1/2 to 3/4 of a yard further back. Francessa said the same thing Sunday (not that that windbag is authoritative of anything). I'm not complaining about it, the ref (who looked a bit confused to say the least) did the best he could. It was Carroll's choice and he chose to play without replay.
 
FLASHWOK said:
then don't be so nitpicky...everyone does it, it happens on sneaks, it happens on sweeps, it happens on purpose, it happens accidentally, it's football.

the rule is bullshit anyway...why should three players get to tackle someone, but 1 teamate can't help push a teammate? it's silly.
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Ummm...because a runner has up to 6+ players blocking for him on every play.

Stupid rules are:
1) the incidental contact by DBs that result in PI especially when the WR is initiating contact or 50/50,
2) blitzers hitting the QB shortly after the throw (yeah, it's easy to stop in 1/100th of a second :wenger: ),
3) DE's getting by an OL by using their arm to raise the OL-men's arm and then getting a flag thrown on the OL-men for holding as his arm happens to catch the DE's shoulder or head, and
4) whatever "defensive holding" rule was called on the Saints yesterday on a freaking FG block attempt.

I could probably name a few more, as could other posters.
 
mathiaslg said:
Let us all agree on a couple of things:

1. Notre Dame is going to have a good future under Weis
2. USC got lucky this past weekend
3. The Trojans are, nonetheless, the best team in the country
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I'd agree with #s 1 & 3, but not #2. It was a great game and I'm not going to take anything away from USC's victory. If ND had won, I wouldn't have said that they were liucky either.

I'd like to see them play again in a bowl game. ND would probably win that one.
 
MrMarcello said:
Flash...are you a bandwagoner?

Manchester United
Dallas Cowboys
NY Yankees
USC

Are you a Red Wings and Spurs fan too?
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no. I don't care for hockey, but always supported the Rangers who toiled in misery for 54 years.

I don't care about basketball at all. I go to knicks games with my friend who has season tickets, but other than that I don't care.

I grew up in NYC, so I am a yankees fan since 1975. My Uncle is from Dallas, so from 1976 me and my cousins were always cowboy fans.

in 1980 I had an english soccer coach at camp who was a rabid united fan and I was his goalie from the camp team, and he assigned me to Manchester United for our little league in addition to the varsity squad, and he loaned me his old United kit for games.

I got an autographed picture of Charles White in 1979 from a family friend who was an SC alum. I followed them from the end of Robinson 1 all throughout the shitty eighties with Ted Tollner through the slightly resurgent Smith era, then Robinson redux then Paul "I can't" Hackett.

USC was my first choice college, and I was accepted in spring 1989, but difficult circumstances stopped me from attending where I'd always wanted to go, for the football team and the film school.


does that explain things for you?
 
MrMarcello said:
Ummm...because a runner has up to 6+ players blocking for him on every play.

Stupid rules are:
1) the incidental contact by DBs that result in PI especially when the WR is initiating contact or 50/50,
2) blitzers hitting the QB shortly after the throw (yeah, it's easy to stop in 1/100th of a second :wenger: ),
3) DE's getting by an OL by using their arm to raise the OL-men's arm and then getting a flag thrown on the OL-men for holding as his arm happens to catch the DE's shoulder or head, and
4) whatever "defensive holding" rule was called on the Saints yesterday on a freaking FG block attempt.

I could probably name a few more, as could other posters.
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Those rules were put in place to put more offemnse in the game and protect the health of the players in whom the owners have huge financial investments. I don't like them either.

The Saint call was bogus and just another case of an official making himself the center of attention.
 
MrMarcello said:
Ummm...because a runner has up to 6+ players blocking for him on every play.

so what...he also has 11 guys trying to tackle him

Stupid rules are:
1) the incidental contact by DBs that result in PI especially when the WR is initiating contact or 50/50,
2) blitzers hitting the QB shortly after the throw (yeah, it's easy to stop in 1/100th of a second :wenger: ),
3) DE's getting by an OL by using their arm to raise the OL-men's arm and then getting a flag thrown on the OL-men for holding as his arm happens to catch the DE's shoulder or head, and
4) whatever "defensive holding" rule was called on the Saints yesterday on a freaking FG block attempt.

I could probably name a few more, as could other posters.
Click to expand...

naming many stupid rules takes longer than it's worth
 
MrMarcello said:
Flash...are you a bandwagoner?

Manchester United
Dallas Cowboys
NY Yankees
USC

?
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p.s. - if I was a bandwagoner, I'd certainly be way off the Cowboys for a decade or so and well onto the pats. off United 2 years ago and onto Chelsea and off the Yanks 4 years ago and onto any number of teams
 
FLASHWOK said:
p.s. - if I was a bandwagoner, I'd certainly be way off the Cowboys for a decade or so and well onto the pats. off United 2 years ago and onto Chelsea and off the Yanks 4 years ago and onto any number of teams
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Understandable, but often that's how a bandwagoner gets his/her supporting start...during the glory days. Some stick with the club through the barren years, while others jump ship to the new top dog.

Heck, being from the US, I'm always labeled a bandwagoner for supporting United. But I did grow up in Fort Worth, so my love for the Cowboys is obvious. I like following the Yankees like I follow Nip/Tuck...it's a real life drama show, those Yankees (but the Rangers are my team).
 
MrMarcello said:
Understandable, but often that's how a bandwagoner gets his/her supporting start...during the glory days. Some stick with the club through the barren years, while others jump ship to the new top dog.

Heck, being from the US, I'm always labeled a bandwagoner for supporting United. But I did grow up in Fort Worth, so my love for the Cowboys is obvious. I like following the Yankees like I follow Nip/Tuck...it's a real life drama show, those Yankees (but the Rangers are my team).
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don't forget though...

when I got Charles White's autograph was the beginning of USC's downfall.
in 1975, the Yankees were not that good and hadn't won or been to a series in 14 years or so. in 1976, the Cowboys had just lost to the steelers in the first matchup...and I knew feck all about United in 1980 when my coach pretty much said, "trust me, you want to be a united fan"...and we were complete shit back then.

so all in all i got in relatively on the ground floor since I was about 4 years old to 9 years old when my allegiances were formed, and I've never wavered. Considering all my teams stunk in varying degrees from royally to mildly during the next 12-21 years, and then redeemed themselves, I'm very loyal.
 
MrMarcello said:
2) blitzers hitting the QB shortly after the throw (yeah, it's easy to stop in 1/100th of a second :wenger: ),
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Pryce got called for one of those yesterday. Overall I think the standard of refereeing in the NFL this season is horrible.
 
Jens said:
Pryce got called for one of those yesterday. Overall I think the standard of refereeing in the NFL this season is horrible.
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Of course, your team is doing rather well ;)
 
mathiaslg said:
BTW, Flash, who was on that list of 15 or so players visiting ND this past weekend?
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Allen Bradford (#1 player in Cali and #1LB in the nation (he's a USC lean)

Gerald McCoy (top DT from Oklahoma, rated #2 DT in the nation, nine other schools on his medium interest "still in the running" list)

Matt Carufel (#9 ranked OL in the country from Minnesota) he reports medium interest in all of the following schools, Florida, Iowa, Miami ,Minnesota, Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska

Terrence Austin (#11 ranked wr in the country from Long Beach/Poly CA) USC didn't offer him a spot. he reports high interest in ND, Miami and UCLA, medium interest in arizona, arizona st. and Oregon. he's expected to stay close to home (UCLA) and is apparently a "warm weather" kid...

Toryan Smith (45th ranked LB in the nation from georgia) all medium interest - Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, UCLA

Laronn Moore (38th ranked WR in the nation from Oklahoma)all medium interest - Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Stanford, Texas Tech, LSU, Nebraska

Richard Jackson (47th ranked WR in the nation from Florida) all medium interest - Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami (Fl), Notre Dame, Pittsburgh

Courtney Grixby (CB/WR not ranked
Nate Lyles (CB/S not ranked
Junior Jabbie (CB/RB not ranked
Jaimie Thomas (OG not ranked)
Samson Taylor (RB not ranked
Maurice Crum (LB notranked
Ronnie Palmer (LB not ranked
Justin Brown.(LB not ranked
 
FLASHWOK said:
Allen Bradford (#1 player in Cali and #1LB in the nation (he's a USC lean)
Gerald McCoy (top DT from Oklahoma, rated #2 DT in the nation)
Matt Carufel (#9 ranked OL in the country)
Terrence Austin (#11 ranked wr in the country from Long Beach/Poly CA) USC didn't offer him a spot.

Toryan Smith (45th ranked LB in the nation)
Laronn Moore (38th ranked WR in the nation)
Richard Jackson (47th ranked WR in the nation from Florida)

Courtney Grixby (CB/WR not ranked
Nate Lyles (CB/S not ranked
Junior Jabbie (CB/RB not ranked
Jaimie Thomas (OG not ranked)
Samson Taylor (RB not ranked
Maurice Crum (LB notranked
Ronnie Palmer (LB not ranked
Justin Brown.(LB not ranked
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Looks kike McCoy and maybe Toryan Smith are the only Irish guys.
 
mathiaslg said:
Of course, your team is doing rather well ;)
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Noticed the same during non Bronco games, Math. And both teams got screwed by the refs in the Washington game.
 
Jens said:
Noticed the same during non Bronco games, Math. And both teams got screwed by the refs in the Washington game.
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I was just making a general comment on how the Broncos are looking quite good.
 
kennyj said:
Looks kike McCoy and maybe Toryan Smith are the only Irish guys.
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they won't get McCoy. he's coming to visit us in two weeks.

and top guys from Oklahoma don't leave the state that often...except maybe to Univ of Texas

he's already visited Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

and these others are in the mix, apparently all on equal footing. Ironically, this couldn't have turned out better for us with McCoy...he goes to ND on a recruiting trip to see ND play us and we come out with a very impressive win, then he immediately sets up a visit with us for 3 weeks from now!!!

looks pretty good.


these schools are also in the mix.

LSU
Miami
Nebraska
Notre Dame
Tennessee
Virginia Tech
 
mathiaslg said:
I was just making a general comment on how the Broncos are looking quite good.
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I thought you wanted to say we´re doing well because of poor referees :)
 
FLASHWOK said:
they won't get McCoy. he's coming to visit us in two weeks.

and top guys from Oklahoma don't leave the state that often...except maybe to Univ of Texas
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Miami has gotten a few from Oklahoma, the most prominent in recent times is Jeremy Shockey.

BTW, how many blue chippers on USC's radar hail from Texas high schools? It's a hotbed of talent in that state. For every 3 that stay in Texas, 2 go outside the state.
 
MrMarcello said:
Miami has gotten a few from Oklahoma, the most prominent in recent times is Jeremy Shockey.

BTW, how many blue chippers on USC's radar hail from Texas high schools? It's a hotbed of talent in that state. For every 3 that stay in Texas, 2 go outside the state.
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SC doesn't do much in Texas, surprisingly. Never really have...we've had a couple guys over the years, but can't remember many in recent times.


we are strongly after Texas DT Brandon Antwine, who is pretty high on us evidently. Also, Some big Offensive Lineman named Curtis Bailey is very high on us, but we haven't offered him.
 
FLASHWOK said:
SC doesn't do much in Texas, surprisingly. Never really have...we've had a couple guys over the years, but can't remember many in recent times.


we are strongly after Texas DT Brandon Antwine, who is pretty high on us evidently. Also, Some big Offensive Lineman named Curtis Bailey is very high on us, but we haven't offered him.
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You speak as if you are on the inside with the USC athletic department. We this, we that. :lol:
 
MrMarcello said:
You speak as if you are on the inside with the USC athletic department. We this, we that. :lol:
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i do know some folks close to the process :angel:


"silent verbals" for example are very big at SC these days.


I knew about Antwine Perez and Taylor Mays though my friend about a week before each announcement. They were our two huge early commits so far.
 
Jens said:
I was drunk when I watched the last couple of minutes of the game. Need to see if I can get this on DVD somewhere.

BTW, were CU interested in LenDale White?

First BCS of the year is out, btw.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/abcsports/BCSStandings
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there is a USC torrent thing somewhere.

I can give you a link to video of the last USC drive...15 minutes of great stuff, if you want it.
 
FLASHWOK said:
there is a USC torrent thing somewhere.

I can give you a link to video of the last USC drive...15 minutes of great stuff, if you want it.
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That´d be nice. :)
 
Jens said:
That´d be nice. :)
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first, here's a page with two videos taken by a USC fan standing in the Notre Dame student section.

the first video is of the ND fans thinking they'd won and celebrating too early, the 2nd is as USC scored and won

he took it with a digital camera...it's totally crazy!!!!!!

http://www.brendanloy.com/2005/10/nd-usc-video-clips.html


that'll whet your appetite...

give me a sec to grab the links to the actual TV footage
 
Last 15 minutes of the game (Final Drive) full TV version with commentary

http://savefile.com/files.php?fid=2766588

(you might have to click through two links but it is there.




Drive to Glory - 3 minute video of last drive set to music

http://rapidshare.de/files/6341171/DRIVE_TO_GLORY_2.WMV.html







and here is thesite for torrents where you can get the whole game if you wish. I don't know how to work torrents, so it's up to you...it's probably easy if you know what youa re doing

www.usctorrents.com
 
Here's a couple of articles from ESPN dfealing with some of the controversies at the end of the game. I have no argument with the calls, but I think the game was a good argument for instant replay:

Weis Wishes instant replay had been used Associated Press


SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Upon further review, Charlie Weis thinks the officials got almost everything right at the end of the Southern California game.

After watching replays, though, he's not sure the ball should have been spotted inside the 1-yard line after USC quarterback Matt Leinart fumbled.

"I think it was pretty close to being right," Weis said Monday, meeting with reporters for the first time since immediately after Saturday's 34-31 loss to the top-ranked Trojans.

He said the officials could have gotten the call exactly right, except USC coach Pete Carroll had vetoed use of instant replay.

The disputed play occurred in the closing seconds. On second-and-goal from the 2, Leinart rolled out left back to the 10 and then turned up field toward the end zone. At about the 2 he leaped toward the end zone and was hit hard by Irish linebacker Corey Mays, jarring the ball loose. The ball bounced out of bounds. In the confusion the clock continued to run, ticking down to 0:00.

Irish fans flooded the field and Weis walked out on the field with his arms raised, but he never took his headset off. He knew the game wasn't over.

"Not for one second did I really believe that the clock was really going to run out," he said.

Weis said the referee first told him Leinart had fumbled the ball forward but then ruled he had fumbled it backward. He said he was told by the referee that the official who had made the ruling had changed his mind.

The placement became key because on the next play, a quarterback keeper, Leinart scored the game-winner in the 34-31 victory with second effort and a push by tailback Reggie Bush.

Weis said he wishes the Pac-10 officials could have used instant replay to make sure they got the call exactly right.

"Without replay, you don't know for sure," he said.

After seeing replays, some Irish fans were upset that Bush wasn't penalized for pushing Leinart in. But Weis said even though it's against the rules, he had no problem with it.

"That's a heads-up by Reggie and hopefully any running back I had would be pushing right along with him," he said.

Weis said if he had any real complaint about officiating at the end it was that USC assistant coach Brennan Carroll, Pete Carroll's son, was down near the end zone signaling for a timeout and wasn't penalized.

"They are out of the coach's box and they are calling timeouts with no timeouts left," Weis said. "Now that's a penalty and that alone puts them out of touchdown scoring range and to field-goal range."

Despite various media calling it a great game and Pete Carroll calling it a classic, Weis didn't think so.

"You can say whatever you want, it's not going to be one of my greatest games because we lost," he said. "It will never be one of my greatest games."

Weis tried to turn the disappointment into a teaching moment. He told his 12-year-old son, Charlie Jr., he wanted them to walk over to the USC locker room to congratulate them on their win.

"He thought I was hallucinating when I said that," Weis said.

Because of the magnitude of the game and the way it ended, Weis thought it was the gracious thing to do.

"I just wanted to let them know that I had respect for their team and the way they played and I thought that they showed a lot of character to go back and win that game," he said. "I thought it was a good lesson for my son."
 
This is also from ESPN. This is pretty much the way I saw it live and on the numerous replays:

USC vs. Notre Dame will go down as one of the greatest college football games ever played. In order to have really appreciated the game, you needed to watch it in the moment. The greatest part of the game was watching that last minute live. It ranks up there with the final stretch of the Kentucky Derby. People were screaming, coaches were yelling, the ball was flying and the clock was running. Before anyone could catch their breath Matt Leinart was celebrating USC's 28th straight victory. The Notre Dame student section went from crying tears of joy, to tears of sorrow. I try not to write about the past in The Mail, but this game will be played out in our minds forever. It deserves some analysis. --Matt Pike

It's very hard to get something right when a predicament occurs that nobody planned for. The play leading up to the touchdown had clock issues, timeout issues and nobody knew where to spot the ball. The ball should've been placed at the 2, but it was placed at the 1, allowing for the sneak. The problem was that none of the officials saw where the ball went out of bounds. There was no replay available because in a non-conference game, the visiting coach gets to choose. Pete Carroll voted for no instant replay. The second problem is a USC assistant coach was calling for a timeout without having any left. The result for an improper call of a timeout is at least a 5-yard penalty.

In defense of USC, the officials never acknowledged the fumble and looked confused so the clock continued to run and was going to run out. I believe that the assistant coach didn't realize the ball was fumbled out of bounds and the clock was going to stop anyway. He was making a final act of desperation. The third issue I heard about was people making a big deal over Reggie Bush pushing Leinart into the end zone. It's illegal to assist, but that is never called. If you think an official is going to make a call like that, in that spot, you've been watching too many White Sox games.
 
yeah I read them both...but also if there'd been replay, Smardzjia's great sideline catch in the 2nd quarter wouldn't have counted, killing their second scoring drive. (I am pro-replay)

not to mention, the final play wasn't reviewable.

either way, there is no confusion among the refs...the sideline ref can be clearly seen at 8 seconds left, marking the spot where the ball went out, and waving his hands over and over for the clock to stop. that was a bad job by the time keeper.


(look at Drive to Glory clip and you can see the official clearly signalling it.)

actually, there is no penalty for asking for a timeout when you have none in college football. The rules say "to ignore the request" . the violation should have been on Brendan Carroll for being out of the coaching box. But then you have to call a penalty on Weis who came halfway across the field.

you also have to call a penalty on the ND players and fans who ran onto the field.
 
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