Bournemouth PL Record Against Top 6
46 Games
22 Points
37 Goals Scored
119 Goals Conceded
-82 Goal Difference
46 Games
22 Points
37 Goals Scored
119 Goals Conceded
-82 Goal Difference
So let's talk about Eddie Howe....
- Thread starter Wayne's World
- Start date
Is he doing much worse than other managers that have the resources he is working with?
If not, then what's the problem here?
Even if his top six record is significantly worse than others with similar resources, as long as he's managing similar point tallies does it really matter? He's not directly competing with the top six.
He has Bournemouth 2 points behind Everton and West Ham, and a point behind Leicester. Three clubs who spend far more on transfers & wages than Bournemouth do, yet we're expected to believe he's doing a terrible job.
Exactly, the league finish is the important thing. My memory is shite but I can’t rememner Bournemouth ever really being in a real relegation battle since coming up. I’m finding the idea that he’s doing so bad absolutely baffling. I don’t know if they’re uninformed or have a skewed perspective due to being a supporter of a giant. The Bournemouth wage bill is a lot smaller than most of their contemporaries, how can someone at least not respect the job he’s done. I would love to be in their position.
Lowest he has finished is 16th (in his first season in the league) where they were 5 points clear of relegation.
Since then 9th and 12th, and this season 12th again, so basically he's established them as a mid table team. Anybody expecting better than that when clubs who invest far, far more in to the squad are struggling to escape that area of the table, is being exceptionally unreasonable.
Howe is one of the youngest managers in the league and has done a very commendable job in the Premier League alone, even before we get in to what an exceptional job he did with Bournemouth in the lower leagues.
Attractive football, develops youth and has Bournemouth mid table in the Premier League after dragging them up from struggling in league 2 .. and you have people saying he is bad at his job. It's honestly astonishing, real football management is not like playing football manager.
it's extremely harsh and naive to blame him for getting swept away by the big teams. it doesn't matter how you set up the small teams will always come short against the big boys. his attacking tactics help them to overcome all the other small teams then you can't really complain. it wasn't so long ago they beat chelsea 4-0 as well .
He has actually ok resources from memory, same as Wolves for example.
See, this is precisely the type of post I got when I brought David Moyes woeful record against the Top 6 way back in 2013. The fact he's shipped so many goals against the Top 6 tells me he's not very good at setting up for the big games, way too stubborn. It should be a very big concern and a big blight on his record. Tactically dumb and a big concern that he's not able to setup his team defensively to shut down the opposition.
To put it into perspective, i've checked Brighton, Bournemouth, Wolves, Huddersfield, Newcastle and West Ham currently and only Huddersfield has a lower points per game. They also concede an average of 2.59 goals per game against the Top 6, thats the most from the above group of clubs. I'm just wary of him, his results really do remind me of Moyes except at least he didn't leak in as many goals.
Arsenal, Cardiff, Everton, Brighton, Manutd, Tottenham, Wolves, Liverpool, Man City, Newcastle
Those are their away games since the last time they won one. 5/10 are against the top six, which 95% of the time they are going to lose.
Everton and Wolves have better teams than Bournemouth, so really they should be winning.
I would only say Newcastle, Cardiff and Brighton are probably the disappointing games.
You have to take into account that they have had a lot of injuries with Cook, Brooks and Wilson being the main ones missing since January.
Those are their away games since the last time they won one. 5/10 are against the top six, which 95% of the time they are going to lose.
Everton and Wolves have better teams than Bournemouth, so really they should be winning.
I would only say Newcastle, Cardiff and Brighton are probably the disappointing games.
You have to take into account that they have had a lot of injuries with Cook, Brooks and Wilson being the main ones missing since January.
What midtable clubs stand out as having a good record against the top 6? Can you share the numbers you are looking at?
Wolves have the huge advantage of their Portuguese connections, which has allowed them to gain established internationals like Patricio, Neves and Moutinho. They also spent over 100 mill in the summer which is significantly more than Bournemouth, but the main thing is that their link to Raiola has been a big part of why they are doing so well, they clearly have a better team than Bournemouth.
Setting up for the big games is far easier said than done when you have an established way of playing at the club. On numerous occasions I've watched Bournemouth play relatively conservatively in big games compared to the way they play vs the bottom half, but they still get beat, mostly due to individual errors. I think he has a way of playing which can lead to being badly beaten, but changing it for every game in which they're an underdog would only lead to confusion, it's far easier said than done to play a different tactical style. Most teams are set up to play one way and have it drilled in to them all the time.
Moyes didn't leak as many goals, but on the flip side Bournemouth are far more attractive to watch than his Everton team. I'm also not here to argue whether he's good enough for a club like United or to make that step up, just to argue against people who made idiotic statements like he's bad at his job, when quite clearly he's done well at Bournemouth. That may well be his 'level' (I personally think he's a young, talented coach who still has a lot to learn but do believe he will make the step up) but it doesn't make him a fraud or a terrible manager.
I just think it gets a tad ridiculous when his team loses badly and people flock to call a man who established Bournemouth as a PL side a moron and clueless at his job. There's a difference between offering fair criticism of him as a manager and whether he's good enough for the top level, and completely lacking the humility to recognise he's clearly not an idiot, or clueless, or someone who hasn't been very successful in his profession. People far too often kneejerk and love to attack a manager when his team is struggling, shit we even saw Pep Guardiola getting branded a fraud by people when his team lost 4-0 to Everton.
Indeed. Calls to get him in at Arsenal or United are being treated with caution, if not outright derision which is fair enough if that's the way you see it, but he is surely beyond doubt doing a fine job at Bournemouth.
Absolutely, not thinking Howe is ready for a top club yet is a reasonable opinion, and one that I actually share.
Thinking he's a crap manager and doing a terrible job on the other hand, isn't a reasonable opinion. It's totally nonsensical.
I agree with everything you said. I have no ties to Bournemouth or Howe and have no reason to defend him, I just think he’s done a brilliant job. I don’t necessarily agree with those who think he’s not ready for a top 6 club, but I understand that people have different opinions and can come to different conclusions, but I can’t see how anyone could ever come to the conclusion that he’s doing a bad job.
If Pochettino left would you accept Spurs gambling on him?
I had to go out. But from the last 3.5 seasons (assuming the club is in the Prem):
Wolves
8 games
9 points
10 GF
13 GA
1.13 Pts per game
Newcastle
22 games
13 points
19 GF
40 GA
0.59 Pts per game
West Ham
45 games
45 points
49 GF
88 GA
1.00 Pts per game
Brighton
20 games
11 points
13 GF
40 GA
0.55 Pts per game
Bournemouth
46 games
22 points
37 GF
119 GA
0.48 Pts per game
Huddersfield
21 games
5 points
8 GF
53 GA
0.24 Pts per game
8 games
9 points
10 GF
13 GA
1.13 Pts per game
Newcastle
22 games
13 points
19 GF
40 GA
0.59 Pts per game
West Ham
45 games
45 points
49 GF
88 GA
1.00 Pts per game
Brighton
20 games
11 points
13 GF
40 GA
0.55 Pts per game
Bournemouth
46 games
22 points
37 GF
119 GA
0.48 Pts per game
Huddersfield
21 games
5 points
8 GF
53 GA
0.24 Pts per game
I'll do Palace, Southampton, Watford, Leicester, Burnley and Southampton later.
I think if Pochettino left I would lean towards a manager who had more experience with handling a club in the CL (assuming when Poch leaves we are still a CL club) but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to someone like Howe coming in and would support him all the way.
Burnley results this season v top 6 before xmas:
0-2 v Man. United
Man. City 5-0 Burnley
Burnley 0-4 Chelsea
Burnley 1-3 Liverpool
Spurs 1-0 Burnley
Arsenal 3-1 Burnley
You're really putting up a good argument mate.
Burnley done well generally since xmas, that's due to internal changes like playing a proper keeper. Anyway as I've said Bournemouth beat a top 6 team 4-0 all of five weeks ago.
Wolves is little difference. Lots of technical quality players who can control tempo in those games much better than any other side below the top 6. I'm sure if Bournemouth were pretty much given Neves and Moutinho due to being best mates with Jorge Mendes they'd do much better in those games aswell rather than likes of Gosling.
I'll say it again, are Watford's results much better v the top 6? Go on shock me. Everton's results remain awful v top 6 despite another summer of spending 100m.
I meant really that they had 90th minute penalty to win game but King missed (thought Fraser dived tbh).
I think last line is pretty good point. Let's say Wolves finish 7th on 52 points and Bournemouth finish 10th on 50 points in May, there's marginal difference so no way could people say with a straight face Nuno is masterclass manager and Howe is just a rookie who never learns (I'm saying this if 7th is good enough to get europa).
If Bournemouth really drop off in the run in and there's 10 points + difference between them and likes of Wolves and Watford then it's a more legitimate argument.
Points Per Game Against Top 6:
They're ranked 17 if you look at GD per game. Evertons is laughably bad though given their budget.
- Wolves - 1.13
- West Ham - 1.00
- Leicester - 0.87
- Newcastle - 0.79
- Swansea - 0.75
- West Brom - 0.72
- Southampton - 0.71
- Crystal Palace - 0.58
- Stoke - 0.56
- Brighton - 0.55
- Everton - 0.53
- Norwich City - 0.50
- Burnley - 0.50
- Watford - 0.50
- Bournemouth - 0.48
- Sunderland - 0.42
- Hull City - 0.33
- Middlesbrough - 0.25
- Huddersfield - 0.24
- Aston Villa - 0.08
- Fulham - 0.00
- Cardiff City - 0.00
They're ranked 17 if you look at GD per game. Evertons is laughably bad though given their budget.
Alarming if he was managing Real Madrid. Not so alarming at Bournemouth
Bournemouth must be the most fun midtable team to support. You’re either winning matches playing exciting football or getting absolutely smashed.
I’d take that over supporting Dyche’s Burnley any day.
I’d take that over supporting Dyche’s Burnley any day.
He’s taken a club from the League 2 relegation zone to midtable in the Premier League. Aye, he’s clearly an incompetent manager.
Exactly.
Brendan’s mocked for his ridiculous persona and because he used to manage Liverpool. He’s clearly a very good coach.
Never heard that argument before .
It's his record against the big teams that matter here and more importantly the total lack of tactics and thought that he shows in these games .
To be a good manager you have to show you can compete at the top levels
Bournemouth smashed Chelsea 4 -0 a few weeks ago. Their fans loved that!
Also, Burnley get battered as well. Chelsea beat the 4 nil (at Burnley) a few months ago.
It's a rollercoaster for both sets of fans but a more fun one for the Cherries.
He is a good manager, just not a top one.
Out of interest, which current managers in the premium do you consider "top ones"? Must be about only about 3-4.
Pep, Klopp & Poch. I have respect for Sarri but it's difficult to put him in there right now.
I’d generally consider a guy only a decade into his career as a manager who has gained three promotions and established that same small club as a secure midtable team in the PL a good manager.
I guess it's all about how we define a "top" manager. I'd certainly not put Howe in with the likes of Klopp or Pep though so I agree with you there.
Why? You stated he's so bad at his job. So you have to look at the job he's done in full, ignoring the brilliant work he did with Bournemouth in the lower leagues, he's managed to establish them in the premier league the last 3 or 4 seasons which is a very impressive feat. Can you at least accept you were wrong to say he's 'so bad at his job'? Or will you continue to support that really odd statement for the sake of pride? Funnily enough, like a Trump supporter
, as you keep accusing others of that
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Where exactly is here? He has taken a club that was almost falling out of the football league system into comfortably mid table. You think Bournemouth fans were even thinking about competing at Anfield, Old Trafford etc 10 years ago?
You can legitimately think Howe is not ready for a bigger job. That is a very valid point of view. Trying to take it to an extreme and claiming he is 'bad' at his job is ridiculous.
Jesus christ, if you think Howe is 'bad' at his job, I dread to think what you think of your own job performances?
It’s the Caf the residents are exceptional at everything. That’s why they can judge everyone
It’s the Caf the residents are exceptional at everything. That’s why they can judge everyone
I know! If you actually look at it logically, even the 'shit' players and 'shit' managers that populate the (if you're going to be incredibly harsh) 3rd best league in the world are amongst the very best in the world in their position. If you're looking at the thousands of managers worldwide and the tens/hundreds of thousands of players worldwide, these players who play at Fulham or Huddersfield or Spurs or Man Utd or who manage Crystal Palace or Bournemouth are genuinely amongst the very top in their field.
And I know sometimes we say shit and whatnot in the heat of the moment (I certainly have) but I get the impression some people actually believe this nonsense.
How many posters on this board can genuinely say they're amongst the best in the world at...well, anything?
He is a good manager, just not a top one.
Maybe, but I'd certainly argue his career thus far shows that he has potential to get there. He's only 41, there aren't that many managers around who can say they've achieved what Howe has in the game at that age.
0 shots vs City today at home.
So did Bournemouth change their approach today? Looks like they made it tough for City or were City wasteful?
So did Bournemouth change their approach today? Looks like they made it tough for City or were City wasteful?
Didn’t watch the match but just had a glance at the stats and seems there was only 1 team in it. 82% possession, 23 attempts at goal to 0 and 810 passes compared to 176.