So, how about that Varane + Martinez partnership?

Daydreamer said:
Varane and Martinez are clearly top class. Shaw has put in some great performances this season to remind everyone why he was so highly rated as a teenager.

I’m not as convinced by Lindelof and Maguire - but with White at RB, our equivalent player is Holding - so I can’t claim that our depth at CB is any better.

City have an excellent depth at CB, but they seem to be adjusting to their new formation. United on the other hand have a settled system where you can swap Shaw in for Martinez seamlessly. It’s very impressive.
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Yeah our depth isn't the best but we can put that on the manager just arriving so not much time to build his dream squad

City are weirdly inconsistent this season and clean sheets record had been horrendous lately

You guys are same as us with a top starting back four but no bench, and imagine what your defense would have been like if you'd managed to land Martinez :eek:
 
Casemiro&Keane said:
Varane’s interviewed in the Sunday Times today and explains how, before the Liverpool game, he got the defence together and decided they should celebrate ’every gain, every tackle, every good action’. I wasn’t a fan of the defensive celebrations initially - it was like, ‘why’s Dalot celebrating conceding a corner? Liverpool’ll probably score from it!’ - but now I love it. It’s so great seeing the rapport between the defenders, the way they fight for everything, the way they’ve got each other’s backs, their determination to avoid conceding goals. And great when Casemiro joins in, too. You love to see it!
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Could you post the link here please
 
yfoFC said:
Yeah our depth isn't the best but we can put that on the manager just arriving so not much time to build his dream squad

City are weirdly inconsistent this season and clean sheets record had been horrendous lately

You guys are same as us with a top starting back four but no bench, and imagine what your defense would have been like if you'd managed to land Martinez :eek:
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Strangely enough, I think our team would look similar, probably with less goals scored AND conceded. We wanted Martinez for LB, so we may have lost out on some of the midfield control Zinchenko gives us when he inverts. But a defence of:

Martinez - Gabriel - Saliba - White

Would have been airtight. It’s essentially four ball-playing CBs. Opposition forwards would have a nightmare most weeks.
 
First trophy they lifted together. Hopefully the first of many

they already legendary in my eyes, similar to RvP
 
Best defensive duo in the league. Best trio with Case
 
Having that experienced/brilliant diamond of De Gea, Varane, Martinez and Casemiro makes us look so solid.
Brilliant, long may it continue.
 
With these two in the centre of our defence and with Casemiro in front of them, we are going to win more trophies. My concern is actually at the other end of the pitch in terms of putting our chances away. I feel like that will decide just how far we go and how much we win. This defence is definitely good enough to win more things. This is EASILY our best defensive duo since Ferdinand and Vidic, who were both immense individually and together.
 
Daydreamer said:
Strangely enough, I think our team would look similar, probably with less goals scored AND conceded. We wanted Martinez for LB, so we may have lost out on some of the midfield control Zinchenko gives us when he inverts. But a defence of:

Martinez - Gabriel - Saliba - White

Would have been airtight. It’s essentially four ball-playing CBs. Opposition forwards would have a nightmare most weeks.
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No you didn't. This is nonsense the fans sprout. According to whoscored he'd only ever played at LB twice for Ajax.

He'd of been your best CB. Gabriel would have been benched.
 
What is our record like when all 3 of Martinez, Varane and Casemiro start?

I always feel confident when they're playing together.
 
We have 2 pretty good fullbacks at a good age flanking them too. De Gea also looks good again behind them and in front of them Casemiro is a world class DM. So things look good from the defensive perspective.

Personally I would get rid of both Maguire & Lindelöf (or at least one; preferably Maguire) and keep Eric Bailly if his move isn't made permanent. I feel there is a player in there and that guy has still something to give. Would be great for our depth in CB department IMO.
 
Keep thinking Varane is 34 and getting sad before remembering he’s 29. Feels like he’s been around forever.
 
Dominos said:
What is our record like when all 3 of Martinez, Varane and Casemiro start?

I always feel confident when they're playing together.
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They've played eight games together, we've won five of them and drawn the other three. We've only conceded four goals during those games, all of which were from set-pieces. Two from penalties(Chelsea and Barca), one from a direct free-kick(Palace away) and one from a corner(Palace home), although the latter was scored after Casemiro had been sent off.
 
Varane has the stature of a top tennis player. He looks like he could slug it out over five sets with Novak Djokovic. He was immense today. What a spine this team has - and noticeable that ETH mentioned De Gea along with Casemiro and Varane as being among the proven winners in the team.
 
Bwuk said:
No you didn't. This is nonsense the fans sprout. According to whoscored he'd only ever played at LB twice for Ajax.

He'd of been your best CB. Gabriel would have been benched.
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Of course it's nonsense, no idea why anyone would believe it either. Martinez would have been the starter CB for them hands down (even with the slight progression of Gabriel this season). Never would have played at LB.
 
Impulse said:
They've played eight games together, we've won five of them and drawn the other three. We've only conceded four goals during those games, all of which were from set-pieces. Two from penalties(Chelsea and Barca), one from a direct free-kick(Palace away) and one from a corner(Palace home), although the latter was scored after Casemiro had been sent off.
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Thanks.

Pretty much as expected our defence is very, very solid when all 3 are on the pitch, and it's hard to lose when you're only ever conceding a maximum of 1.
 
Daydreamer said:
Strangely enough, I think our team would look similar, probably with less goals scored AND conceded. We wanted Martinez for LB, so we may have lost out on some of the midfield control Zinchenko gives us when he inverts. But a defence of:

Martinez - Gabriel - Saliba - White

Would have been airtight. It’s essentially four ball-playing CBs. Opposition forwards would have a nightmare most weeks.
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It would have been a travesty for the butcher to play LB for you and as you said, you got a top one in Zincheko

Anyways, guess we're all happy with how things turned out
 
Both are much quicker than one might think, especially Varane. You see him sprint against a quick player and you start to worry but he clears it first
 
Varane, Martinez and Casemiro is an absolutely crazy triangle.

We've gone from Maguire, Lindelof, McT AND Fred to one of the best CB/DM combo's in the world... and we've saved on a player in the process.
 
Bwuk said:
No you didn't. This is nonsense the fans sprout. According to whoscored he'd only ever played at LB twice for Ajax.

He'd of been your best CB. Gabriel would have been benched.
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That is, of course, possible. But I don't think it's the most likely hypothetical scenario.
  • Martinez has 37 appearances at FB and DM (which is where our inverted FBs actually play for most of the match).
  • We loaned out Tavares and Tierney has had his game time massively reduced - we're looking for FBs comfortable in the middle.
  • In fact, both of our RBs have played more games at CB than anywhere else on the pitch.
  • Zinchenko himself is more comfortable in central areas.
  • We moved our record defensive signing in to form the Gabriel / Saliba partnership.
  • The only member of our squad to play every single minute of our league campaign is... Gabriel.
Martinez is a brilliant CB. He is also everything Arteta looks for in a LB.
 
Daydreamer said:
That is, of course, possible. But I don't think it's the most likely hypothetical scenario.
  • Martinez has 37 appearances at FB and DM (which is where our inverted FBs actually play for most of the match). Like I said, he'd played twice at LB. He played a season at DM where even Ten Hag said he wasn't great.
  • We loaned out Tavares and Tierney has had his game time massively reduced - we're looking for FBs comfortable in the middle. Tierney is never fit, and Tomiyasu played ahead of him because of this at LB when Tierney was out. Tavares was as much use as a man down
  • In fact, both of our RBs have played more games at CB than anywhere else on the pitch. Not by design. White played last season at CB. You don't have a RB in the squad so it was obvious to play him there. What was the alternative? Cedric?
  • Zinchenko himself is more comfortable in central areas. According to Transfrmarket - Oleksandr Zinchenko - Detailed stats | Transfermarkt - he played 141 games at LB compared to 25 centrally. He's almost got as many appearances as a RW as he does a CM.
  • We moved our record defensive signing in to form the Gabriel / Saliba partnership. Ben White isn't very good at CB. It's not saying alot. Arteta wasn't even sure on Saliba himself - otherwise why was he constantly loaned out. Even Saliba didn't know if he'd be back.
  • The only member of our squad to play every single minute of our league campaign is... Gabriel. Due to availability. Saliba is miles ahead.
Martinez is a brilliant CB. He is also everything Arteta looks for in a LB.
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I'll bite. Martinez would have been CB and your best CB by a distance. It's Arsenal fans trying to bring justification to themselves on why he didn't join them.
 
Bwuk said:
I'll bite. Martinez would have been CB and your best CB by a distance. It's Arsenal fans trying to bring justification to themselves on why he didn't join them.
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There's nothing to bite on. I'm saying Martinez is a fantastic player that I wish we had signed. Nobody is trying to "justify" anything.

I just think had we we been fortunate enough to bring him in he would likely have played at LB. I'm not sure why anyone would get touchy about that.

Phillip Lahm was the best RB in the world at one point. Yet Guardiola played him at LB and then primarily at DM. The idea that good players should only ever be played in their "best" position is an odd one.

Also, Arsenal's defence is the 2nd best in the league and has conceded 23 goals compared to United's 28. The idea that a Gabriel / Saliba axis suits our style of play best has quite a bit of evidence to support it.
 


Someone posted it in the match thread. We havent conceded since open play while Casemiro, Martinez and Varane have been on the pitch. Incredible really.
 
Daydreamer said:
There's nothing to bite on. I'm saying Martinez is a fantastic player that I wish we had signed. Nobody is trying to "justify" anything.

I just think had we we been fortunate enough to bring him in he would likely have played at LB. I'm not sure why anyone would get touchy about that.

Phillip Lahm was the best RB in the world at one point. Yet Guardiola played him at LB and then primarily at DM. The idea that good players should only ever be played in their "best" position is an odd one.

Also, Arsenal's defence is the 2nd best in the league and has conceded 23 goals compared to United's 28. The idea that a Gabriel / Saliba axis suits our style of play best has quite a bit of evidence to support it.
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Yeah it's pretty fair to think he would be doing what Zinchenko is doing right now for us. Not sure why the poster seems upset by the suggestion to be honest. If anything it's a compliment as so few players can be trusted to do what Zinchenko does and Arteta probs had that in mind when he wanted Martinez. Obviously Martinez wanted ten hag and we then got Zinchenko instead. Not sure either club would change that now either tbh, both are doing incredible at their respective clubs.

Good shout on Lahm, perfect example and my god what a player.
 
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