Smashley Young

noodlehair said:
Still don't get it.

We've signed a player who MIGHT slightly improve us in an area we don't actually need to improve in.

If the engine's broken, fix the fecking engine before you start spending all your money on stuff that already works fine.
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We'll not be seeing Bebe and Obertan when Nani or Valencia are not available, and that's a massive plus in my eyes. SAF has created a very successful engine less car if you hadn't noticed over the last few years. ;)

PS: Still a few months left in the transfer window.
 
Sultan said:
Those who are questioning the wisdom of his signing due to already having Nani, and Valencia we play over 50 game a season. That's over a 100 games shared between 3 players. That's discounting him being able to play in the middle behind the striker.
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How would having Ashley Young have helped us last season?

Remembering that we were already without Valencia for a majority of it too.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
We were definitely light on the wings last season and Giggs is 37 fecking years old now. It's fairly obvious we need another decent winger in our squad.



If you need a new engine you're best advised to shop around to make sure you get the best possible engine for your money.

Meanwhile, if you see a car stereo that looks like great value you'd be a bit of a spacker if you decided to let someone else buy it purely on the basis that you still hadn't sourced your new engine.
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We were without Valencia for most of last season, and Park for a significant amount of it, and had half a season of shit form from Rooney, yet we never had major problems with being weak in attack or on the wings.

And when Valencia and Nani were fit, one of them was usually warming the bench as it is.

Again, in what way would Ashley Young have improved us if we'd had him last season, or the season before?
 
noodlehair said:
How would having Ashley Young have helped us last season?

Remembering that we were already without Valencia for a majority of it too.
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We only really started looking good once Valencia came back from injury. Until then we were grounding out results without really looking good on the eye. The timing of Valencia's comeback was ideal, just when Nani started tiring and losing form.
 
noodlehair said:
How would having Ashley Young have helped us last season?

Remembering that we were already without Valencia for a majority of it too.
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I am beginning to think that you are on the wind-up.


Your arguments are becoming more and more ludicrous. I can't take you serious.



I suppose now that you have entrenched yourself in negativity, you may as well keep digging.
 
Solius said:
Good to know, I always look for that in a player.
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Absolutely, personally I prefer players who like to win rather than those who play to lose. Sometimes, but not all the time players who like to lose are negative for the team and dressing room.
 
noodlehair said:
We were without Valencia for most of last season, and Park for a significant amount of it, and had half a season of shit form from Rooney, yet we never had major problems with being weak in attack or on the wings.

And when Valencia and Nani were fit, one of them was usually warming the bench as it is.

Again, in what way would Ashley Young have improved us if we'd had him last season, or the season before?
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Between December 28th and March 19th we played 20 games with Nani and Giggs as the only specialist wingers available for selection (Giggs wasn't picked for more than one game/week, as usual and started only 10 games in that run).

This led to us playing Anderson, Gibson, Fletcher or Gibson out of position or starting with Obertan. I think it's fair to say Ashley Young would have made a massive difference in that run and I expect Giggs to be used even more sparingly in the season ahead.
 
Sultan said:
We only really started looking good once Valencia came back from injury. Until then we were grounding out results without really looking good on the eye. The timing of Valencia's comeback was ideal, just when Nani started tiring and losing form.
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We only really looked good in the games against Chelsea, and one of Valencia or Nani was already sitting on the bench for each of those.

Having Valencia back improved us because he was playing so well. In the same way it'd improve us if he starts next season in the same form, Ashley Young or not.

Sorry but I don't get it. I'm quite worried Fergie's signed him to help implement the crappy away game tactics we deployed last season. We could sign Ronaldo and Messi and it'd make feck all difference if the rest of our team sits on the edge of our own area.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Between December 28th and March 19th we played 20 games with Nani and Giggs as the only specialist wingers available for selection (Giggs wasn't picked for more than one game/week, as usual and started only 10 games in that run).

This led to us playing Anderson, Gibson, Fletcher or Gibson out of position or starting with Obertan. I think it's fair to say Ashley Young would have made a massive difference in that run and I expect Giggs to be used even more sparingly in the season ahead.
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So is Valencia due to break his leg again this year then?

Last time I checked Park had also retired from month and a half long mid season international tournaments.
 
noodlehair said:
So is Valencia due to break his leg again this year then?

Last time I checked Park had also retired from month and a half long mid season international tournaments.
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Evidently players (including wingers) are going to get injured. Young can also play centrally as an attacking player, and even as a striker
 
Yeah, because we don't have enough of those either what with two of them including the League's top scorer not being able to get a game already, and another two being repeatedly sent out on loan.

How many attacking players do you lot think we need enough to be spending millions of pounds on? We already have more than any other team in the world, and most of them are already quite good.

We need a cocking midfield, not more and more players who can spend every single away game lumbering around without the ball.
 
noodlehair said:
So is Valencia due to break his leg again this year then?

Last time I checked Park had also retired from month and a half long mid season international tournaments.
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I am confused.


When I read your doom and gloom the other day, your complaint was that Young was an average player.


Now, it seems that you don't think we need him.


Or could it be that you think he is not good enough for Man Utd and that he won't improve us? Make it clear so that we can see how right or wrong you are at the end of the season.


I admire you sticking to your guns, despite your streak of madness. ;)
 
noodlehair said:
So is Valencia due to break his leg again this year then?
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No. Neither will he go the whole season without an injury.

Last time I checked Park had also retired from month and a half long mid season international tournaments.
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Last time I checked that was because he's over 30. Something which won't help a player that has a history of getting injured as often as he has. We coped ok when he was away at the Asian Cup, it was the hamstring injury he picked when he got back to Manchester that really fecked us. For the record, he played more games last season than he did the season before, despite the Asia Cup.

That's without even getting into how important Giggs was for us on the left wing last season. Something he probably won't repeat next season and definitely won't the season after.
 
noodlehair said:
Yeah, because we don't have enough of those either what with two of them including the League's top scorer not being able to get a game already, and another two being repeatedly sent out on loan.

How many attacking players do you lot think we need enough to be spending millions of pounds on? We already have more than any other team in the world, and most of them are already quite good.

We need a cocking midfield, not more and more players who can spend every single away game lumbering around without the ball.
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You're not helping yourself with all this crazy hyperbole.

You're also repeating this ridiculous theory that Young was somehow signed instead of a central midfielder. How'd you figure that, exactly?
 
It didn't look like we needed Evra and Vidic when we bought them. Turns out they became crucial parts of a re-designed defence. In fact, the best defence I have seen at United in my lifetime.
 
noodlehair said:
Yeah, because we don't have enough of those either what with two of them including the League's top scorer not being able to get a game already, and another two being repeatedly sent out on loan.

How many attacking players do you lot think we need enough to be spending millions of pounds on? We already have more than any other team in the world, and most of them are already quite good.

We need a cocking midfield, not more and more players who can spend every single away game lumbering around without the ball.
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But noods, what makes you think we won't sign a midfield player or two? Are you ITK? ;)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You're not helping yourself with all this crazy hyperbole.

You're also repeating this ridiculous theory that Young was somehow signed instead of a central midfielder. How'd you figure that, exactly?
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Right, so who does have more attacking players than us then?

Because from what I can see, if we're just barely coping, just about every other team in the world is royally fecked.
 
I somehow feel that should Young get the #18 shirt, we won't sign another midfielder this summer... Weird, I know.
 
I hope we never see Anderson or Fletcher on the wings again.

Or Fabio. Or Rafael. Or Obertan. Or Bebe. Or Rooney. Or Giggs.

Well, maybe Fabio on the odd occasion. And Giggs once in a while for old times sakes. And Rooney on occasion if the situation calls for it. And Bebe if he comes back from Turkey a completely transformed player. And I guess Anderson has all the makings of a good left winger. And Fletcher can certainly do a shift out there. And Obertan...well...no. Infact, just no.

Let's play 2 true wingers all the time cos we're Man United and that's how we roll. But, y'know, having 3 in the squad is too many. Because we only need 2, don't we?
 
I think this debate has taken a turn into a debate where two very opposite and two very narrow-minded views have really come to bang together head first.

In many respects, I see and understand Noodles point - Young doesn't really raise the bar of the first XI. As of right now.

1.) He could and will improve under Sir Alex
2.) His game should raise amongst far superior players

-----
Noodle is also saying that even when we lost Valencia we didn't look like we had lost something majorly in attack via the wings and in this sense we managed to get by and win the league.

Two things people are assuming incorrectly here -

Noodle is failing to recognize (I think) that Young would have probably meant we had tied the season up completely much earlier during Valencias absence - hence the argument for signing him.

What everyone else is failing to recognize is that Noodle is right, we still came through this period and won the league. Even though I feel our attacking play really did suffer - especially Rooney.

Ultimately, if he isn't excited over signing Young, that's fine, I was somewhat like this when we signed Valencia and SAF taught me a quick sharp lesson. However, Noodle Young is a quality addition to the squad, who is versatile and determined to succeed at the highest level.

In my opinion, we only have three primary wide players anyway - Nani, Valencia and Young. Park and Giggs play different roles, Obertan is Obertan and Bebe has been sent thousands of miles away. Presumably so the next cross Bebe hits actually arrives in the box at Old Trafford.
 
noodlehair said:
Right, so who does have more attacking players than us then?

Because from what I can see, if we're just barely coping, just about every other team in the world is royally fecked.
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As it stands, we have:

Rooney
Hernandez
Berbatov
Nani
Park
Valencia
Giggs
Young

(Obertan, Welbeck, Cleverley)

Let's go through the alphabet, starting with "A" for Arsenal.

Van persie
Chamakh
Bentdner
Walcott
Nasri
Rosicky
Arshavin
Diaby


(Lansbury, Vela, Emmanuel-Thomas)

Which leaves us all square, the difference being one of our attacking players will be 37 years old next season.
 
AdZzUtd said:
What everyone else is failing to recognize is that Noodle is right, we still came through this period and won the league.
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With Giggs often playing wide left.

He's 37 now and will surely play predominantly through the middle next season.

If we didn't sign him this summer then we'd be in the market for a LW next summer, and would have to get through another season relying on players who aren't true widemen.

As you said, we now have 3 primary wide players.
 
Unless the thought process is there will be no more funds available to purchase a midfielder, I'm not sure why buying Young has anything to do with us needing a midfielder.
 
noodlehair said:
Right, so who does have more attacking players than us then?

Because from what I can see, if we're just barely coping, just about every other team in the world is royally fecked.
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Why and how is that relevant? This is a step in the rebuilding and revitalisation of the team. We have been doing it for years.
 
AdZzUtd said:
I think this debate has taken a turn into a debate where two very opposite and two very narrow-minded views have really come to bang together head first.

In many respects, I see and understand Noodles point - Young doesn't really raise the bar of the first XI. As of right now.

1.) He could and will improve under Sir Alex
2.) His game should raise amongst far superior players

-----
Noodle is also saying that even when we lost Valencia we didn't look like we had lost something majorly in attack via the wings and in this sense we managed to get by and win the league.

Two things people are assuming incorrectly here -

Noodle is failing to recognize (I think) that Young would have probably meant we had tied the season up completely much earlier during Valencias absence - hence the argument for signing him.

What everyone else is failing to recognize is that Noodle is right, we still came through this period and won the league. Even though I feel our attacking play really did suffer - especially Rooney.

Ultimately, if he isn't excited over signing Young, that's fine, I was somewhat like this when we signed Valencia and SAF taught me a quick sharp lesson. However, Noodle Young is a quality addition to the squad, who is versatile and determined to succeed at the highest level.

In my opinion, we only have three primary wide players anyway - Nani, Valencia and Young. Park and Giggs play different roles, Obertan is Obertan and Bebe has been sent thousands of miles away. Presumably so the next cross Bebe hits actually arrives in the box at Old Trafford.
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:lol::lol::lol: I actually laughed out loud in office.
 
Sultan said:
Unless the thought process is there will be no more funds available to purchase a midfielder, I'm not sure why buying Young has anything to do with us needing a midfielder.
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I certainly think that is the key fear yes. If this is the case I think alot more will subscribe to Noodles line of questioning - we're crying out for a midfielder.

The same argument people use for Giggs being 37 - can't play the wing all the time is also relevant for Giggs being 37 - can't play CM all the time either.

Leaving us with three Midfielders, Carrick, Fletcher and Anderson. Gibson probably will be sold, Scholes has gone and Hargreaves is clinically dead.

If one of those three, or even two of those three get injured we're up shit creek.

Not to mention the question marks ever present over all three of them.

But this is all conjecture because we don't know if funds have been used up or not because we're not privy to United's resources. The only thing we know is that we had a shitload in the bank apparently and we've spent nowhere near this.

If we sign a CM aswell as Young, what the feck complaints can anyone have ?
 
AdZzUtd said:
I certainly think that is the key fear yes. If this is the case I think alot more will subscribe to Noodles line of questioning - we're crying out for a midfielder.

The same argument people use for Giggs being 37 - can't play the wing all the time is also relevant for Giggs being 37 - can't play CM all the time either.

Leaving us with three Midfielders, Carrick, Fletcher and Anderson. Gibson probably will be sold, Scholes has gone and Hargreaves is clinically dead.

If one of those three, or even two of those three get injured we're up shit creek.

Not to mention the question marks ever present over all three of them.

But this is all conjecture because we don't know if funds have been used up or not because we're not privy to United's resources. The only thing we know is that we had a shitload in the bank apparently and we've spent nowhere near this.

If we sign a CM aswell as Young, what the feck complaints can anyone have ?
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Players who could play CM next year:

Anderson,
Fletcher,
Jones,
Carrick,
Young,
Park,
Giggs

With O'Shea and Gibson still around. We're not exactly crying out because of lack of numbers.
 
AdZzUtd said:
I certainly think that is the key fear yes. If this is the case I think alot more will subscribe to Noodles line of questioning - we're crying out for a midfielder.

The same argument people use for Giggs being 37 - can't play the wing all the time is also relevant for Giggs being 37 - can't play CM all the time either.

Leaving us with three Midfielders, Carrick, Fletcher and Anderson. Gibson probably will be sold, Scholes has gone and Hargreaves is clinically dead.

If one of those three, or even two of those three get injured we're up shit creek.

Not to mention the question marks ever present over all three of them.

But this is all conjecture because we don't know if funds have been used up or not because we're not privy to United's resources. The only thing we know is that we had a shitload in the bank apparently and we've spent nowhere near this.

If we sign a CM aswell as Young, what the feck complaints can anyone have ?
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Quite.

I'm not sure why we're all arguing.

Yet!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
As it stands, we have:

Rooney
Hernandez
Berbatov
Nani
Park
Valencia
Giggs
Young

(Obertan, Welbeck, Cleverley)

Let's go through the alphabet, starting with "A" for Arsenal.

Van persie
Chamakh
Bentdner
Walcott
Nasri
Rosicky
Arshavin
Diaby


(Lansbury, Vela, Emmanuel-Thomas)

Which leaves us all square, the difference being one of our attacking players will be 37 years old next season.
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You've left out Owen, and included players on Arsenal's list who are no more attacking than the likes of Anderson and Gibson.
 
Twigginater said:
Players who could play CM next year:

Anderson,
Fletcher,
Jones,
Carrick,
Young,
Park,
Giggs

With O'Shea and Gibson still around. We're not exactly crying out because of lack of numbers.
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Cleverley

I'm not sure people are arguing about numbers, but a lack of quality.
 
Twigginater said:
Players who could play CM next year:

Anderson,
Fletcher,
Jones,
Carrick,
Young,
Park,
Giggs

With O'Shea and Gibson still around. We're not exactly crying out because of lack of numbers.
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Sultan said:
Cleverley

I'm not sure people are arguing about numbers, but a lack of quality.
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Exactly that Sultan, Jones is a young central defender, not midfielder anyway - I assume he'd take a half a season atleast settling into a destroyer role behind the midfield. Persistent questions about our three main midfielders is the most important thing at the moment. None of those three offer even a quarter of Scholes creativity or goals (earlier in his career.)

In fairness to Cleverley he's not going to come into the side and be Paul Scholes, he's another one for the future.
 
I do agree with Noods we desperately need a quality Midfielder.
 
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