But the failure to hold the ball was, at one time Trippier even manages to cut inside and get in the final third centrally.
Smalling and Jones
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But the failure to hold the ball was, at one time Trippier even manages to cut inside and get in the final third centrally.
Yup. You'd think this place was full of closet racists.
This.Other than Jones errors (both goals were pretty fortunate). Do people think the game would have been that much different if we switched centre backs with Spurs? Would Pogba have done some defending and help control the midfield because he had 'better' centre backs behind him.
Keep the racist stuff out of here. No need to through the race card in.
I understand the blaming of Smalling is way over the top, but he was very poor aswell as Jones so does deserve criticism on the performance. Was he to blame entirely? of course not, But should he still be at this club? In my honest opinion, No he shouldn't.
The first goal was straight from KO.
The second goal was a bog standard clearance.
I can't believe how easily Kane bullied BOTH of them. They are 2 fast, strong defenders, but Kane made mince meat of them - winning every header, holding up every ball at ease, turning them. It's like they were taking turns at defending Kane and he won every single duel.
Why are you talking about the goals, there is 90mins in a game, did you watch the match?
They're just not reliable as a two in big games. I am always so nervous watching them, they both look frantic when they defend.
I still have no idea why Young is playing, who is not a defensively sound LB,
I still have no idea why Young is playing, who is not a defensively sound LB,
I think someone said this earlier - Jones is a good defender but awful at football. I'm inclined to say the same about Smalling. Neither can pass, Smalling always seems terrified of the ball, they literally always pass back, and when under the tiniest bit of pressure, they knock the ball out of play without ever thinking of passing. I'd say the same for both are fullbacks, neither Valencia or Young are good enough to be playing there. That's our issue - we are so slow when playing out from the back. And it's so blatantly obvious what our limited options are:
1) Smalling to Jones
2) Jones to Smalling
3) Jones to Young
4) Smalling to Valencia
5) Pass to De Gea
6) Pass Matic
I think back to the City game, Rojo would constantly look for the out ball, albeit a long one, and it eventually worked. Even against Yeovil (different animal), Rojo was so keen on getting up the pitch and bagged a brilliant assist. Neither Jones or Smalling try to carry the ball and even if they did, they're so shit at passing, nothing will ever come of it.
1) Smalling to Jones
2) Jones to Smalling
3) Jones to Young
4) Smalling to Valencia
5) Pass to De Gea
6) Pass Matic
I think back to the City game, Rojo would constantly look for the out ball, albeit a long one, and it eventually worked. Even against Yeovil (different animal), Rojo was so keen on getting up the pitch and bagged a brilliant assist. Neither Jones or Smalling try to carry the ball and even if they did, they're so shit at passing, nothing will ever come of it.
You do realise that post is criticising our defending.
Why are my talking about the goals?
Why are my talking about the goals?
I mean JUST talking about them, there is a full 90 minutes of football.
Both capable of good games, neither can be relied upon.
That’s my hot take.
That’s my hot take.
He isn't a bad player though.
The other problem is that now everyone has ridiculed City for going out and buying 3 full backs and 2 centre halves what do United do. Sanchez is a good player but could his wages have been better utilized elsewhere?
Looking at United's defence is not a million miles away from looking at City's from a year or so ago. Aging full backs, Centre halves who weren't quite good enough. The saving grace (pun intended) is you don't have to get a new keeper. 20-30 mio quid sticking plaster solutions are not going to fix it though. It looks like a 200 mio problem which is only going to get more expensive if left.
Don't talk nonsense, United don't need to spend £200m on defence and that's an absurd comment based on one game away to Spurs. We will leave the over spending in defence to City.
Shaw is the long term LB, De Gea is the best in the world, Valencia is a top RB who probably has another good season in him and the pool of players we have for CB is very good (Bailly, Jones, Smalling, Rojo and Lindelof). All of them players are young, mid-twenties. It's unfortunate that Bailly is out injured as he is our best CB and one of the best in the league, so hopefully he is back soon.
What United need is a a good backup for Valencia, but we will also have Fosu Mensah returning from loan at Crystal Palace. Tunazebe is very highly rated so hopefully he will have a good laon spell at Aston Villa.
Before last night United hadn't conceded a goal in 600 minutes.
The difference between this United defence and the City one with Kompany, Clichy, Zabelata, Mangela, Kolarov is night and day!
Talent wise they are solid CBs. They lack the talent of a Rio or the positioning/strength of a Vidic but they do the job. The problem with them is their lack of football brain power. Smalling or Jones would be better options if they played alongside a top quality CB with good leadership skills but together they risk to be outsmarted by world class players like Kane or Ronaldo.
Honestly I have very mixed feelings about them. I think that if we play a three men midfield and bring Dier and Jorginho then defense will improve. Matic will need less time to nanny Pogba and he'll dedicate more time nannying those two, whom, trait wise (strength, pace, height) are more then capable to play at top level. The counter argument to that is that at their age they really need to mature as players. Soon enough their physical abilities will start to wane and they need to start relying more on the mental aspects of the game (leadership, positioning, brains) and less on the physical part of the game. That transformation isn't happening and we have two players who are at the wrong side of their 20s still playing like 18 year olds.
If you ask me we should go for the happy medium. Our first priority should be stabilising the midfield (Dier and Jorginho would do the trick) and bring top quality fbs. Jones and Smalling should remain with Tuanzebe sent on loan to a solid EPL side and Lindelof given more games. Next year we reassess the situation. If Smalling and Jones step up then we finally have the CB pair we deserve. If TFM steps up then we can afford moving Dier as CB. If Tuanzebe or Lindelof step up then the time would be ripe for one or both CBs to be shown the door.
Honestly I have very mixed feelings about them. I think that if we play a three men midfield and bring Dier and Jorginho then defense will improve. Matic will need less time to nanny Pogba and he'll dedicate more time nannying those two, whom, trait wise (strength, pace, height) are more then capable to play at top level. The counter argument to that is that at their age they really need to mature as players. Soon enough their physical abilities will start to wane and they need to start relying more on the mental aspects of the game (leadership, positioning, brains) and less on the physical part of the game. That transformation isn't happening and we have two players who are at the wrong side of their 20s still playing like 18 year olds.
If you ask me we should go for the happy medium. Our first priority should be stabilising the midfield (Dier and Jorginho would do the trick) and bring top quality fbs. Jones and Smalling should remain with Tuanzebe sent on loan to a solid EPL side and Lindelof given more games. Next year we reassess the situation. If Smalling and Jones step up then we finally have the CB pair we deserve. If TFM steps up then we can afford moving Dier as CB. If Tuanzebe or Lindelof step up then the time would be ripe for one or both CBs to be shown the door.
Dier is abysmal @devilish
He's not Maradona, however we don't need him to be. We currently have a brilliant forward line with plenty of options. Lukaku is a great top scorer, Sanchez, Martial and Pogba are absolute class and we've got some great options in Mata, Rashford and Lingard. What we need are players whose able to stabilise the midfield, disrupting the opponents play, shield defence and allow our attacking options all the time they need to work their magic. Matic and Jorginho would be my first teamer's choice. The former is strong and tall, he's gifted with great positioning and is hugely effective in the role he plays in. Jorginho is the typical defensive playmaker (ie regista). He's not the strongest player around but his got a great interception rate, he can run all day (11km+ per game) and his passing rate overshadows even that of Verratti.
Dier won't be a first teamer but his versatility would allow us to rest Matic when we need that or slot in defence in times of need. He's not a Roy Keane but having played as a CB himself he knows exactly the protection CBs need and will provide it. Think of him as an OShea if only Johnno knew how to play football sort of thing.
Erm...because goals conceded lose you games?
You...do....understand the concept of winning/losing games?
Or are you suggesting that goals (conceded/scored) don't actually matter that much?
Erm...because goals conceded lose you games?
You...do....understand the concept of winning/losing games?
Or are you suggesting that goals (conceded/scored) don't actually matter that much?
I see what you did there, but build up play and the way a game is being played influences how goals are scored... or do you think a game is just the match of the day highlights?
Smalling is not good enough for Manchester United. He is terrible on the ball. lacks composure. Almost always passes back. When put under the slightest bit of pressure he puts the ball into row Z. This is ok if your playing for the local u-12 schoolboy team but for Man United Its not good enough. A MUFC CB should be comfortable on the ball, a leader, able to play football, read the game, anticipate and find a team mate with his passing. Jones is only slightly better.
Smalling is so bad. It's just not funny. His distribution from CB has to be the worst in the league.
He fecks up simple things like head the ball to a teammate 10 yards away, giving possession away.
Should have binned him years ago.
He fecks up simple things like head the ball to a teammate 10 yards away, giving possession away.
Should have binned him years ago.
Yeah, I think most defences in Europe would struggle to cope if the likes of Eriksen, Kane, Alli and Son are basically given a free pass in midfield for the majority of the game. It's suicide playing him in a 2 man midfield against top opposition. I mean Jones and Smalling still looked horrific and we desperately miss Bailly, but our lack of any sort of presence in the middle (save for a slowing Matic) left them far too exposed.
It's a massive shame because I feel like Mourinho was riding the collective feeling of optimism and decided to go toe to toe with Spurs in the hope that we would blow them away. He won't forget this though and we'll go back to type against big teams again for the rest of the season.
Exactly it, I've been told on here its nothing to do with your midfield yesterday by other members.
Good post, I would agree with all of that. The choice of CM we bring in in the summer is going to be vital if we have any ambition of improving our performances against the big sides next season.
Jones had a nightmare game but I believe he's still good enough for us.
Smalling on the other hand is a disgrace to the shirt IMO. He's been here for 8 years now having played with legends in Rio and Vidic and been coached by 3 world class managers and not to mention training everyday here during that period and is still shit scared of having the ball at his feet. He's 28 and is still so shite on the ball its unreal. Jose has to bin him this summer.
Smalling on the other hand is a disgrace to the shirt IMO. He's been here for 8 years now having played with legends in Rio and Vidic and been coached by 3 world class managers and not to mention training everyday here during that period and is still shit scared of having the ball at his feet. He's 28 and is still so shite on the ball its unreal. Jose has to bin him this summer.
Some bloke ranting, haven't watched it myself:
I agree apart from the Jones and Smalling bit as any our central defenders in there just now apart from Lindelof (as he’s still finding his feet literally) and we are generally fine even with Rojo or Blind who I rate less than both previously mentioned at centre back. But Jose defends as a unit (ask his wide men) and defence reap rewards but attack can suffer (yep) so it’s Jose imo who gets the credit and DDG and Valencia who are constant in their positions not Jones (can’t keep fit and has brain farts) and Smalling (lacks composure passing and picking up in the box.
You're joking, right? Bailey is way better than both of them.
The problem is that by playing Sanchez & Lingard in this game, the defense had no outlet in midfield. Spurs would mark Matic and double team the two wings, and then let Smalling or Jones have the ball. We needed another midfielder, besides Matic, who could carry or pass the ball out and avoid the pressure Spurs were applying. Sanchez should not have started this game because he is not well integrated into the team yet, it should have been Mata starting. And it should have been Fellaini starting instead of Lingard.
He’s certainly rated higher on here despite never playing and having no idea how to head the ball.
Both Smalling and Jones have their problems, but I am amazed when people fail to realize that our midfield provides absolutely zero protection for them, zero. There is no one winning the ball in midfield, no one shielding the defense. The opposition players have a free run at our defenders most of the time that they have the ball.
Both are fine when paired with others. But when these two are paired, there's just no cohesion and you can see the nervousness. They seems like doing their own stuff. Maybe because they know that Mou only want to keep one of them in the future?
He's calmer, stronger, faster, better dribbler, better first touch and better passing both long and short. He's not as good as Smalling in the air but to say he can't head the ball is a myth that started on the Caf.
Plus he takes no shit. He would've made clean shit of Kane and/or Ali yesterday in a crunching tackle.
It’s really not a myth. Just watch the way he jumps. He manages to make himself smaller. Go outside this site and see how many people think Eric Bailly is really good. He’s been built up beyond any reasonable proportion on here. He’s barely played 40 games for the club.
I was the game and they were both awful, along with other players. Kane around rings around them, both of them didn't know if they should chase the runners or stay in their position. Besides being poor on the ball and shy away from it, the lack of communication between them was the most noticeable thing, they hardly ever talked to each or shout out any commands. Matic had to play as a third CB in the second half too.
They're good players, but it's hard to trust them in games where the pressure will be on us
They're good players, but it's hard to trust them in games where the pressure will be on us
the fact that jose bought bailly and lindelof was because he didn't really trust these two
jones is injury prone , smalling is just a bad footballer
i still rate jones though despite his mistake yesterday, smalling just make me nervous everytime he is in possession , he is blatant weakness for everyone who play against us, either press his passing option or press him , he will run out of idea , even his simple pass makes it difficult for other player
currently bailly and rojo is our best pairing when both fit, although rojo still not in his best form after knee injury at least he can pass and quite comfortable on the ball
jones is injury prone , smalling is just a bad footballer
i still rate jones though despite his mistake yesterday, smalling just make me nervous everytime he is in possession , he is blatant weakness for everyone who play against us, either press his passing option or press him , he will run out of idea , even his simple pass makes it difficult for other player
currently bailly and rojo is our best pairing when both fit, although rojo still not in his best form after knee injury at least he can pass and quite comfortable on the ball
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To be fair this is a terrible metric. We had Ronaldo setting the world alight and outside of the United fan base he was still being call a show pony and overhyped. Bailly is imo already a better defender than Smalling, in every department aside from aerially. I’d rather work on Bailly’s one weakness than many flaws of a 28 year old who frankly is unlikely to improve past this point.
There's a reason Jose specifically went out last summer to buy a CB nicknamed the iceman.
In some instances certainly. We can’t really work on any of his weaknesses until he’s actually fit to play football. I’m not saying he hasn’t got potential but to pretend he doesn’t have many weaknesses himself is nonsense. People on this site just like to ignore his mistakes or poor performances to highlight those they don’t like.