Smalling and Jones

[Ikon]

The fact that we went out and spent 30 million on a CB whose nowhere near the first team and frankly doesn't look good enough...I'm a 100% behind Mourinho but I think Lindelof is one of his biggest mistakes as of yet.

The signing of Lindelof made no sense to me whatsoever, not when we didn't ship out any of the defenders that we already had on the books.
If we had sold one or two and replaced with Lindelof, then I can see the logic of that, even if he ultimately turned out to be a poor signing.....but to just add another squad defender for £30M leaves me puzzled.

I have said so many times, that none of our defenders particularly impress me.
With the exception of Bailly, and maybe Shaw if he is focused, I really do believe that any of them are expendable, and if next window we can sell on any from Smalling, Blind or Darmian I'd take that as a positive.

 

[::sonny::]

I said they are not good enough since 2013, for 4 reasons:

- no football brain (headless chickens)
- injuries
- bad ball playing
- no charisma

Play them as regular starter for 15-20 games in a season and you will be fecked

Sometimes, if they do not get injured, can play good games for 1-2 months till they face thoughest opponents

But the net result at the end of the season will be always negative

From Rio-Vidic to Smalling-Jones, what do you expect? To win the champions league? I don’t think so

 

[R'hllor]

Ah the medals - that jones ad smalling picked up as squad players when Rio and Vidic were still in our team!!

Seems that doesnt matter to JM.

 

[edgar allan]

I'm a 100% behind Mourinho but I think Lindelof is one of his biggest mistakes as of yet.

Mkhitaryan says hello

 

[SAred]

I know its only press talk but replacing Jones and Smalling with Maguire and Varane really I'd rather stick to what we have no upgrade there.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

They'd look better if they had better fullbacks next to them.

 

[dbs235]

Only because of an injury and stupid team selection. The back four should be Valencia, Bailly, Rojo, Shaw.

Which if you look at it like that, doesn’t seem too bad.

Doesn't seem great either.

 

[MikeKing]

I love Smalling, and Jones did well tonight but that is just funny, and on point. They don't seem to get a long these days it seems.

 

[Acole9]

I never wanted to see them as a partnership at the back again after our loss against Spurs in the league. The last two matches they've both been good to be fair.

 

[cyril C]

I said they are not good enough since 2013, for 4 reasons:

- no football brain (headless chickens)
- injuries
- bad ball playing
- no charisma

Play them as regular starter for 15-20 games in a season and you will be fecked

Sometimes, if they do not get injured, can play good games for 1-2 months till they face thoughest opponents

But the net result at the end of the season will be always negative

From Rio-Vidic to Smalling-Jones, what do you expect? To win the champions league? I don’t think so

We bought Lindelof, was for his ball playing capability. Darmian and Blind will be history soon so we will be left with 5 CB only.

BTW, why do we need charisma for a CB? The last thing we will need is different hair style for every CB, who spending more time on internet than practising pitch .

 

[Zlatan 7]

I love Smalling, and Jones did well tonight but that is just funny, and on point. They don't seem to get a long these days it seems.

Why don’t they seem to get along? Don’t tell me you mean when Jones was pumped as feck yesterday jumping around smalling after smalling got in a tussle with some spurs player.
They seemed to be getting on better than ever.

Or have I missed something?

 

[11101]

Problem is they're both excellent 1v1 defenders but both struggle with movement around them. Without a properly fit Bailly they're the best we've got for now so we just have to make sure our midfield protects them properly.

 

[datura]

Quite enjoyed the Juve-esque encouragement between them towards the end.

 

[MikeKing]

Why don’t they seem to get along? Don’t tell me you mean when Jones was pumped as feck yesterday jumping around smalling after smalling got in a tussle with some spurs player.
They seemed to be getting on better than ever.

Or have I missed something?

Yeah, it's just that you rarely see something like that between them. I think they used to be best buds coming up, and to me it just doesn't seem like thats the case anymore. It's not a big deal. But I thought they had better chemistry together as a CB partnership in the U21's national tournament than they ever did later for the club, probably up until yesterday.

 

[Andycoleno9]

They always have some good performances together but overall , i am not changing my opinion. They are not good enough for us. Also against spurs it was not that good. First 30 minutes they were bad. First goal was full backs mistake but they were also nowhere there. One didn't put pressure on eriksen and other could and should clear that cross. After that goal jones lost kane after the cross, who missed open goal.
I would keep smalling but jones should go.

 

[antsmithmk]

I can't think of 5 better CB's in the Prem. That's also a reflection of the dire quality of CBs in general mind.

Harry Kane was kept very quiet yesterday. Not something many defenders have done this season, and it's something they consistently seem to do. I don't think buying and selling at CB will improve us as a team. LB and RB who can give width, pace and cross the ball would be a better starting point.

 

[el3mel]

Was dreading their pairing yesterday but glad I got it wrong and they were brilliant!

 

[squidoo]

It' very simple. ..if we are parking the bus against possession teams these 2 are our best option. However they are not good for us to escape the high press due to being hopeless on the ball. Fantastic box players.
If we are looking to attack teams their lack of composure means they sit too deep meaning with those 2 our only option is to sit and hit on the break.
I suspect Maureen will prefer this option for now so I expect no new CB signings.
2 FBs is a must.

 

[lysglimt]

They always have some good performances together but overall , i am not changing my opinion. They are not good enough for us. Also against spurs it was not that good. First 30 minutes they were bad. First goal was full backs mistake but they were also nowhere there. One didn't put pressure on eriksen and other could and should clear that cross. After that goal jones lost kane after the cross, who missed open goal.
I would keep smalling but jones should go.

You can't seriously blame Jones and Smalling for anythig regarding the goal ? Jones had to go out against Eriksen because Tottenhams right flank was completely wide open. This might have been Youngs fault, but its hard to know without knowing exactly how United are meant to defend counters. There is a chance that someone (Matic or Herrera) are instructed go cover that area when Young moves forward - we don't know - but it isn't Jones' job. Smalling was covering Kane - so clearly he is not to blame. It was poor defending yes - but not by Jones and Smalling. At the same time it was a brilliant counter by Spurs with 2 superb passes. United have 14 goals against in 23 matches with Jones on the pitch this season. So to say that he is nowhere near good enough is just ridiculous.

Personally I have hard time finding a few central defenders in the P.L i prefer to Jones. I would say Alderweireld is better - because he organizes his defense brilliantly. But apart from him ? Nah

 

[Andycoleno9]

Mkhitaryan says hello

Miki was key part in europa league title so he can't be called as a flop or bad signing.

 

[Bobski]

How did Sanchez and PFA team member Vertonghen look yesterday(or in any of their key losses) or Otamendi and Laporte, Van Dyjk and Lovren, Christiansen and Rudiger against Utd in their recent defeats. I have read comments on here all season that Smalling and Jones are Fulham/WBA level players, How is it possible they could out perform these amazing partnerships considering how terrible they are.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

How did Sanchez and PFA team member Vertonghen look yesterday(or in any of their key losses) or Otamendi and Laporte, Van Dyjk and Lovren, Christiansen and Rudiger against Utd in their recent defeats. I have read comments on here all season that Smalling and Jones are Fulham/WBA level players, How is it possible they could out perform these amazing partnerships considering how terrible they are.

To be fair, I don’t particularly rate any of those partnerships as anything special, Smalling and jones included. If the two of them had better distribution and better full backs beside them they’d be among the elite pairings, assuming they were consistent enough.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

The 2 of them are clearly very talented defenders....They"ve been around for 7/8 seasons now and they have survived 4 different managers.Clearly,there must be a reason why Sir Alex,LVG and Mourinho kept picking these guys.The reason is simple,the 2 of them are excellent defenders.

They rarely let the team down,but maybe we"ve just gotten so used to them that we have begun to take them for granted.Yes,they do make the odd big mistake but which top defender doesn't?I have no gripe about their defending,but my issue with them is their lack of fitness and their poor ball distribution.But if it's just about the raw ability to defend,then your not going to find too many better, atleast in this league....

 

[extincti fugax hominum]

I'm very happy with them. Play proper full-backs on both flanks and let them have a little bit more protection from CM too and then judge them. They may not be good enough as ball-playing defenders but certainly are as pure defenders. Add Bailly and Rojo who built a fantastic partnership with Jones and was great until the injury last season into the mix and we are good to go. We don't need more centre backs now; what we need is 2 full-backs (RB & LB), 2 CMs and a RW imo.

 

[Canagel]

It' very simple. ..if we are parking the bus against possession teams these 2 are our best option. However they are not good for us to escape the high press due to being hopeless on the ball. Fantastic box players.
If we are looking to attack teams their lack of composure means they sit too deep meaning with those 2 our only option is to sit and hit on the break.
I suspect Maureen will prefer this option for now so I expect no new CB signings.
2 FBs is a must.

Exactly. Ultimately it comes down to what Mourinho wants this team to do. He knows very well we can't build from the back with Jones and Smalling. I think he said to Smalling 'with your feet we're not playing out from the back' or something like that before the Ajax game last season. Like you said their lack of composure when being pressed means we're forced to give up possession and sit deep waiting for the counter attack. If the game plan is to attack teams then they are nowhere near the required level. When we have to park the bus they are excellent but we'd only need to defend for some periods against the top teams. What about the 14/15 other teams in the league? We'll need to break them down especially at OT and this is where you need ball playing centre backs capable of stepping into midfield and being that extra man. Smalling and Jones are quite good when they are assigned jobs and told to shackle strikers but ultimately this isn't what we need. There are defenders who can do what they do and much more interms of building from the back etc. We need to find these defenders. Defenders that can resist pressure and play inbetween the lines. It will make our job attacking wise so much easier because we can get all our attackers into free space if we have defenders who can break that first line of pressure. Fullbacks are the bigger concern currently but that doesn't mean we don't need a CB either. Bailly for me has to start when fit for now.

 

[MikeKing]

We'll need to break them down especially at OT and this is where you need ball playing centre backs capable of stepping into midfield and being that extra man. Smalling and Jones are quite good when they are assigned jobs and told to shackle strikers but ultimately this isn't what we need. There are defenders who can do what they do and much more interms of building from the back etc. We need to find these defenders. Defenders that can resist pressure and play inbetween the lines. It will make our job attacking wise so much easier because we can get all our attackers into free space if we have defenders who can break that first line of pressure.

When playing at OT, using your feet to pass is only one way of providing in an attacking sense. It is just one aspect. Bailly and Smalling especially can both provide aggressiveness, win duels etc in a high line. That is another great way of sustaining attacking pressure, and a lot of these ball-playing defenders lack in these aspects tbf. I think what you're talking about is more of a concern with teams that press high, because our defenders struggle most when using the ball creatively from deep positions, but even then should we really not put our best defenders on when facing opposition that bring the games to us? I don't think it is so easy to find defenders that complete, and you are wrong if you don't think we need to shackle strikers etc. Not every ball-playing defender out there can do that to a high enough standard for us. And there lies the problem, i think we should be grateful for what we have, and maybe first look to attacking positions when wanting to boost the attack.

 

[Eyepopper]

I don't have a problem with either of them (barring Jones injury record) but as a whole we really lack a vocal and commanding top class CB.

We're lacking leaders right through the team, but its most noticeable at CB IMO.

 

[Isotope]

I fecking hope that Spurs game is the start of something beautiful. For all my opinion about Jones, he's one of players from Fergie's era. It's hard not to have soft spot for him.

 

[cyril C]

How did Sanchez and PFA team member Vertonghen look yesterday(or in any of their key losses) or Otamendi and Laporte, Van Dyjk and Lovren, Christiansen and Rudiger against Utd in their recent defeats. I have read comments on here all season that Smalling and Jones are Fulham/WBA level players, How is it possible they could out perform these amazing partnerships considering how terrible they are.

Fulham/WBA level was a ridiculous comparison, agenda for sure. I would say only Van Dyjk/Lovren might be slightly ahead of these 2 but then we should not be talking about best in England, we should be talking about best in Europe, and these 2 are not even close to that level. I have no problem with either Smalling or Jones, as you need a British CB to deal with British striker in EPL, but perhaps not both at the same time. Modern football also require ball-playing CB and intelligent CB, afraid both are a bit short in these categories.

 

[prath92]

It' very simple. ..if we are parking the bus against possession teams these 2 are our best option. However they are not good for us to escape the high press due to being hopeless on the ball. Fantastic box players.
If we are looking to attack teams their lack of composure means they sit too deep meaning with those 2 our only option is to sit and hit on the break.
I suspect Maureen will prefer this option for now so I expect no new CB signings.
2 FBs is a must.

Off topic but seen this used only by Liverpool fans

 

[Revaulx]

It' very simple. ..if we are parking the bus against possession teams these 2 are our best option. However they are not good for us to escape the high press due to being hopeless on the ball. Fantastic box players.
If we are looking to attack teams their lack of composure means they sit too deep meaning with those 2 our only option is to sit and hit on the break.
I suspect Maureen will prefer this option for now so I expect no new CB signings.
2 FBs is a must.

I agree with much of this, but the reason they sit deep isn’t because of their lack of composure but because that’s where “Maureen” () likes his defenders to be. Smalling in particular had no difficulty at all playing high up the pitch under LvG; indeed, he looked really good there and surprisingly his lack of ability on the ball wasn’t as apparent as it is when he’s further back.

 

[squidoo]

Off topic but seen this used only by Liverpool fans

ill cry myself to sleep now

 

[squidoo]

I agree with much of this, but the reason they sit deep isn’t because of their lack of composure but because that’s where “Maureen” () likes his defenders to be. Smalling in particular had no difficulty at all playing high up the pitch under LvG; indeed, he looked really good there and surprisingly his lack of ability on the ball wasn’t as apparent as it is when he’s further back.

Well MAUREEN had better tell Hierra as he was demanding they push higher as well.
Ever thought they've been told to sit deeper by Maureen because he knows they are poor under pressure?
And I'm 47..1st game 1981..I've got kids in Uni and my own business and a wife that knows I'm batting above my average meaning my life is a constant struggle of achievement...don't wave you've sperm soaked finger at me. Ill call whomever I want whatever I want. Maybe you need to get some perspective in your life!

 

[VeevaVee]

They'll always look good when we control a game and the opposition doesn't get a sniff because we play balanced football across the park. That's not always going to be possible though, and they'll be shown up again when the defence is actually tested. We can't expect this not to happen at some point if we want to go far in the CL.

 

[MikeKing]

They'll always look good when we control a game and the opposition doesn't get a sniff because we play balanced football across the park. That's not always going to be possible though, and they'll be shown up again when the defence is actually tested. We can't expect this not to happen at some point if we want to go far in the CL.

Isn't that the case for all teams tho? When teams lose control and isn't balanced, thats usually when they concede. I hope we make sure our defence is tested as little as possible, for us to make it further in the CL next season.

 

[Ekeke]

They'll always look good when we control a game and the opposition doesn't get a sniff because we play balanced football across the park. That's not always going to be possible though, and they'll be shown up again when the defence is actually tested. We can't expect this not to happen at some point if we want to go far in the CL.

They're doing better against the tests than our other CBs.

Its okay to just say that you already decided they arent to your liking and it doesnt matter how they actually perform on the pitch, you're not going to change your mind. Thats clearly the situation with a whole bunch of posters here.

Might as well be honest about it (goes for all of them)

 

[VeevaVee]

Isn't that the case for all teams tho? When teams lose control and isn't balanced, thats usually when they concede. I hope we make sure our defence is tested as little as possible, for us to make it further in the CL next season.

It is, but we're bound to be pressured in a way we aren't comfortable with at some point in the CL and for me it's how the defence copes with situations like that that determines whether they're actually decent, or being flattered by the team. Of course I'm happy enough with the latter for most games but I'd like some serious CL action too.

They're doing better against the tests than our other CBs.

Its okay to just say that you already decided they arent to your liking and it doesnt matter how they actually perform on the pitch, you're not going to change your mind. Thats clearly the situation with a whole bunch of posters here.

Might as well be honest about it (goes for all of them)

Them playing alright once isn't going to change a whole bunch of posters view like with some people. Happens all the time on here.

If they start playing better consistently and when tested then I'll happily say that, because why wouldn't I?

 

[MikeKing]

It is, but we're bound to be pressured in a way we aren't comfortable with at some point in the CL and for me it's how the defence copes with situations like that that determines whether they're actually decent, or being flattered by the team. Of course I'm happy enough with the latter for most games but I'd like some serious CL action too.

Ah, yes. Not fully convinced on Jones and I don't remember if he actually played but I actually think Smalling +1 pretty much coped with those situations well against the top sides this year. Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool gave us some trouble but our defenders managed pretty good and didn't concede a lot. I think some people even view those situations just as "a defence looking shaky" tho, when its just the nature of those situations.

 

[Unitedssss]

We need to keep Bailly fit and purchase a world class defender like Toby Alderwield. Then we will have Smalling and Jones as replacements for if they get injured or suspended. I reckon that this is first priority on the transfer market.

Smalling is always holding onto shirts in the penalty area and increasing the chances of giving away penalties. In fact, that's how Kompany scored that header in the derby. He looked like he didn't even have his eyes on the ball and through tugging his shirt he actually let Alderwield get away.

Wouldn't you think that if you've got a body like Smalling's then you would be better off blocking his opponent instead of the other way around.