Sjor Bepo VS Sweden 1948-58 - NT peak draft

Who would win based on their NT peak?

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .
Didn't have any expectations regarding votes in this draft, just wanted people to get to read the story about the Swedes and share what I learnt while doing the research. I hope that Skoglund gets appreciated more and picked as he was a fantastic winger if you want a dribbling genius with perfect crosses and great playmaking in general. That Grenoli is understood a bit better with keywords like "Supreme fitness and stamina" describing them in their peak. That people see that Gren is at least as good as Liedholm and the style behind Nordahls legendary goalscoring records.

Also that Erik Nilsson and Bergmark in particular are seen in future drafts as world class options for a LCB/RCB role for both a 5 and a 3 man defense. If you want two defenders next to your libero who were all about bullying their opponents with their defensive abilities then they're great options if the more common picks are gone already. You don't have to go for a CB out of position, the older era offers so many great choices in general for that.
 
So don't feel obligated to vote for me sort of out of pity for having to write all that! Sjor deserves a fair unbiased match.
 
Annahnomoss said:
So don't feel obligated to vote for me sort of out of pity for having to write all that! Sjor deserves a fair unbiased match.
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For me I just didn't like the set up of Sjor's attack. Not functional for me, too many artists and not enough firepower. Needs a striker in there.
 
Raees said:
For me I just didn't like Sjor's attack. Not functional for me, too many artists and not enough firepower.
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Wasn't supposed to target anybody, just trying to clarify it. But yeah that is the issue people are having with his side.
 
Gio said:
This. Not quite sure how the collection of AMs will fulfill the focal point duties of a centre forward.
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Plenty of teams more then successfully played without a proper centre forward....

Brazil 1970
Spain 2012
Current Liverpool side

Just few teams that first went through my mind im sure i could find much more....and if nothing, Hidegkuti is no more of a number 10 then he is a striker.

@Raees

ok in your opinion its dysfunctional and thats perfectly fine but it sure doesnt lack firepower.

Cubillas - Bronze Boot with 5 goals in 4 games, scoring in every game he played at the tourno
Hidegkuti - 4 goals in 4 games
Julinho - 2 goals in 3 games
Beckenbauer - 4 goals in 6 games
 
Annahnomoss said:
So don't feel obligated to vote for me sort of out of pity for having to write all that! Sjor deserves a fair unbiased match.
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dont be so fecking nice:D congrats on the win mate, this was probably my most enjoyable game since im playing drafts, it was very fun on both fronts!
 
Šjor Bepo said:
dont be so fecking nice:D congrats on the win mate, this was probably my most enjoyable game since im playing drafts, it was very fun on both fronts!
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I don't really have an issue with Sjor's set-up as such, it's just that I think it plays to Annah's strengths whereas Sjor would have probably won this had he gone with Figo and Batistuta instead of Julinho and Cubillas (with Hideguti as the false 9), so kudos to him for sticking to his guns here and going for his preferred set-up.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Plenty of teams more then successfully played without a proper centre forward....

Brazil 1970
Spain 2012
Current Liverpool side

Just few teams that first went through my mind im sure i could find much more....and if nothing, Hidegkuti is no more of a number 10 then he is a striker.

@Raees

ok in your opinion its dysfunctional and thats perfectly fine but it sure doesnt lack firepower.

Cubillas - Bronze Boot with 5 goals in 4 games, scoring in every game he played at the tourno
Hidegkuti - 4 goals in 4 games
Julinho - 2 goals in 3 games
Beckenbauer - 4 goals in 6 games
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Of course I'm a big fan of false 9 sides. You don't need a CF to have a goalscoring side but in the context of this match.. I envisage clear routes to goal for Annah (not necessarily easy routes because your defence is solid) but with your attack I don't see the same level of cohesiveness.

Juninho is the wide man, Iniesta and Zhirkov as a combination could work well so these things make sense.

But Cubillas and Hidegkuti doesn't make sense as a pairing to me, both like to get on ball deeper and with the absence of third man runs from midfield.. or a sustained goal threat from midfield, it's left to a deeper lying pair and a winger to get the goals whereas with the Swedish team there's about 4 proper goal threats and one out and out goalscorer in Nordahl.
 
Raees said:
Of course I'm a big fan of false 9 sides. You don't need a CF to have a goalscoring side but in the context of this match.. I envisage clear routes to goal for Annah (not necessarily easy routes because your defence is solid) but with your attack I don't see the same level of cohesiveness.

Juninho is the wide man, Iniesta and Zhirkov as a combination could work well so these things make sense.

But Cubillas and Hidegkuti doesn't make sense as a pairing to me, both like to get on ball deeper and with the absence of third man runs from midfield.. or a sustained goal threat from midfield, it's left to a deeper lying pair and a winger to get the goals whereas with the Swedish team there's about 4 proper goal threats and one out and out goalscorer in Nordahl.
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That was the beauty of some of the older sides. :drool: The same goes with match winning individual brilliance and dribbling, that entire four is equally scary on the ball and can go on a run to beat a player to set up a goal. With Nordahl not being like that and rather just Il Bison inside the box and with his runs behind the centre backs.
 
Joga Bonito said:
I don't really have an issue with Sjor's set-up as such, it's just that I think it plays to Annah's strengths whereas Sjor would have probably won this had he gone with Figo and Batistuta instead of Julinho and Cubillas (with Hideguti as the false 9), so kudos to him for sticking to his guns here and going for his preferred set-up.
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Having Batistuta instead of Cubillas we are losing a lot in possession and then Hamrin vs Zhirkov is a much bigger issue then it is now, in fact Zhirkov vs Hamrin would be a bigger issue now then the other way around.
Figo we fecked up at drafting process, we just didnt do a proper research before we picked him as you would thought he had at least one quality tourno out of three in a right wing position but after watching highlights of every game he was either invisible or was producing magic on the left/central area where we didnt need him so we needed a new right wing ASAP.

Raees said:
Of course I'm a big fan of false 9 sides. You don't need a CF to have a goalscoring side but in the context of this match.. I envisage clear routes to goal for Annah (not necessarily easy routes because your defence is solid) but with your attack I don't see the same level of cohesiveness
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Thats fair enough.

Raees said:
But Cubillas and Hidegkuti doesn't make sense as a pairing to me, both like to get on ball deeper and with the absence of third man runs from midfield.. or a sustained goal threat from midfield, it's left to a deeper lying pair and a winger to get the goals whereas with the Swedish team there's about 4 proper goal threats and one out and out goalscorer in Nordahl.
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Well, thats the thing....Cubillas 70' version was playing much higher then 78' version and he very rarely went deep.
Both runs from midfield and goal threat from midfield we have in Beckenbauer.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Im a bit surprised so many are questioning that partnership as its a such a natural fit of a inside forward and false nine.....the only explanation would be that everyone is thinking about Cubillas from 78' but even he wouldnt be a bad fit. Having a striker in the team would harm this team in many ways, i wouldnt had such a massive upper hand in possession as i have it right now which would harm both my attack and defense.
Attack as they are much better cutting the opponent through possession rather then on quick direct breaks and defense as my weaknesses(Hamrin vs Zhirkov being the obvious one) would be much easier to exploit not to mention Zhirkov would turn from one of the better players on the pitch to one of the worst.
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Nah don't get me wrong I also enjoy a false 9 sides and I'm far from the idea of having always a designated striker, but IMO Hidegkuti always strikes me of being more of a playmaker or a #10 type in a modern formation rather than a false 9 in Cruyff mold. Who do you have on the bench? If you have Batigol IMO him and either of Cubillas/Hidegkuti will improve that side immensely. I can see Zhirkov/Hamrin being an issue of course and could be better, but I'd rather see a more direct side with a Beckenbauer/Coluna combo in midfield.

@Annahnomoss I saw that you are playing with high press when off the ball, was that a common gameplan of Sweden at that time? And also which side do you consider better - the Olympics one or the WC silver medalists? Looking at the two era's and the peak of the footballers IMO the Gre-no-li team seems excellent in attack and probably edges it for me personally.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Iniesta........Batigol........Julinho
..........Cubillas......Hidegkuti........
...Zhirkov...Beckenbauer....Lahm.....
.......Figueroa.....Nasazzai.........
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I rarely like typical WM formations, but that is IMO great one masking the weakness in Zhirkov as well with Figueroa at LCB and Beckenbauer at DM covering.
 
Big fan of WM but that would be awful IMO
Zhirkov would be even more exposed, Beckenbauer as a pure DM here would be a waste of his talents/performances at WC, Lahm and Iniesta out of position....

I will stay with my sinking ship, specially as its probably my favorite side i ever built apart from Julinho who is a bit of an enigma and emergency replacement.
 
Enigma_87 said:
@Annahnomoss I saw that you are playing with high press when off the ball, was that a common gameplan of Sweden at that time? And also which side do you consider better - the Olympics one or the WC silver medalists? Looking at the two era's and the peak of the footballers IMO the Gre-no-li team seems excellent in attack and probably edges it for me personally.
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It isn't so much a high press as a team tactic. But as the Swedes lost the ball Nordahl had a job to do on the centre back, Hamrin on the left back and Skoglund on the right back. They closed down space swiftly and as the passage was open down the wings - the opponents played there which was the plan of it all. Then the defenders would have to read just when the pass would come and push up aggressively with a tackle/interception to force a weak first touch and often then they won the second balls through the left and right half.

The '48 side won the Olympics in an unstoppable manner and it was at the time the most important and respectable tournament played since the start of the second world war. Their record together was outstanding with 18 wins and 1 draw out of 23 games after Liedholm joined and Grenoli was formed. They could have gone on to be one of the most dominant sides in history and probably would have if it wasn't for the stupid ban on professional players in Sweden which broke the team apart.

Even without Grenoli they came third in 1950 after a narrow 3-2 loss to that legendary Uruguay side and in 1952 they came third in the Olympics again, so the foundation was there around Grenoli and Nacka Skoglund as well.

The 1958 side was not close to that to be fair. It was a retirement tournament from Gren and Liedholm and they had lost Nordahl, Erik Nilsson and Sune Andersson as well which just shows what the '48 side could have been. With Raynor in charge the '58 side overperformed and beat teams who had better players than themselves like West Germany but the '48 side were the side to beat.
 
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Okay. Wasn't prepared to win at all, but we'll see how we move this forward. Great game Sjor and thanks for allowing me to post an unfairly long OP and being a good sport all the way through. Enjoyed it a lot.
 
Annahnomoss said:
It isn't so much a high press as a team tactic. But as the Swedes lost the ball Nordahl had a job to do on the centre back, Hamrin on the left back and Skoglund on the right back. They closed down space swiftly and as the passage was open down the wings - the opponents played there which was the plan of it all. Then the defenders would have to read just when the pass would come and push up aggressively with a tackle/interception to force a weak first touch and often then they won the second balls through the left and right half.

The '48 side won the Olympics in an unstoppable manner and it was at the time the most important and respectable tournament played since the start of the second world war. Their record together was outstanding with 18 wins and 1 draw out of 23 games after Liedholm joined and Grenoli was formed. They could have gone on to be one of the most dominant sides in history and probably would have if it wasn't for the stupid ban on professional players in Sweden which broke the team apart.

Even without Grenoli they came third in 1950 after a narrow 3-2 loss to that legendary Uruguay side and in 1952 they came third in the Olympics again, so the foundation was there around Grenoli and Nacka Skoglund as well.

The 1958 side was not close to that to be fair. It was a retirement tournament from Gren and Liedholm and they had lost Nordahl, Erik Nilsson and Sune Andersson as well which just shows what the '48 side could have been. With Raynor in charge the '58 side overperformed and beat teams who had better players than themselves like West Germany but the '48 side were the side to beat.
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Thanks Annah! Well done and looking forward to how you'll upgrade it with a bit of mixture of Swedish and probably foreign players as well :)
 
Efforts/involvement: both managers were great
Individual quality: Bepo wins
Strategy: Annah wins

The last criteria has been the deciding factor for me.

Hidegkuti can run the show thanks to strikers (specialists) who attract the attention of defenders.

hungria-1954tacts.jpg
 
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