Sir Jim reportedly deems ETH's position not a priority unless results are particularly dire - missed opportunity or the right decision?

Gavinb33 said:
Avram Grant taking over Jose's 1st stint was laughable really, that team just continued to play exactly like a Jose team he didn't do anything
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We did get this great moment out of it though
 
Shark said:
It's not my job to do that, I'd assume the brilliant new structure and personnel that we're putting in place can make that key decision, as opposed to the club falling further into the abyss this season.
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So a mythical manager who might not exist.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
That's not even remotely true though. Their strategy under Abramovich of changing managers at the first time of trouble worked for them more often than not, and resulted in them saving quite a few otherwise crap seasons that would've otherwise just been written off.

The state they're in now is more due to actions they've taken under their new ownership, a completely separate issue altogether.
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They have bought players for managers who are too different, and are now in a mess.
 
Hammondo said:
So a mythical manager who might not exist.
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If the club is in free fall as we currently are now, and unable to score goals, well then it's up to the regime to find somebody who will put us back on track.
 
No manager can succeed with the club in the mess it is in.

So any manager you get in now, before the infrastructure is in place, will fail too.

Changing managers is expensive, and there are only so many good ones who would be willing to come here given the circus we have become.

It therefore makes sense to get the football infastructure in place before swapping out the manager. Its been a deacde of this now, maybe we should learn from it. I've been very cirtical of ineos, but if this is the strategy, its the right one.
 
DJ_21 said:
Who do you suggest replace him then? He’s not been given a fair chance where he has a proper structure above him. Not one manager we’ve had as. He won a trophy in his first year and came 3rd. That’s a successful first season considering the squad we have. Once we get rid of some more drama queens and players that cause trouble then he’ll create an happy environment and a happy environment is a winning one.
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From day 1 I have always said the trickiest bit is who next ? I am however sure that ETH has done nothing to warrant any more time he’s a dud. Yes we are a mess up top that’s why Ineos are in and they are cleaning up shop. Yup last season 3rd and a cup however this season has been a disaster and that’s an understatement. No progress he’s taken us way backwards. If you want to give a manager a chance with a proper structure he’ll you could say Jose or Ole deserved the same chance. ETH is not the manager to take Man Utd forwards it’s as simple as that hes not good enough. Push me for a Choice I’d say Ange. Look at the job he’s doing. We player each other this weekend let’s see who plays the better football.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
They were never on him in the first place. He gave the club a list of his priority targets, and once they are unattainable they move on to his 2nd and 3rd targets in each position. The club pushed hard for his number 1 targets and unfortunately didn't get them all. Whether or not his list of priority targets are good enough or not is another matter.
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:lol: :wenger:
 
parmenio said:
From day 1 I have always said the trickiest bit is who next ? I am however sure that ETH has done nothing to warrant any more time he’s a dud. Yes we are a mess up top that’s why Ineos are in and they are cleaning up shop. Yup last season 3rd and a cup however this season has been a disaster and that’s an understatement. No progress he’s taken us way backwards. If you want to give a manager a chance with a proper structure he’ll you could say Jose or Ole deserved the same chance. ETH is not the manager to take Man Utd forwards it’s as simple as that hes not good enough. Push me for a Choice I’d say Ange. Look at the job he’s doing. We player each other this weekend let’s see who plays the better football.
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Let’s see if he wins something in his first season… would you take the 3pts Sunday or better football? I’d be very happy if we get both.
 
Just a few points to address that keep popping up in this thread.

Bringing in an interim manager won't change anything

Eh, United had lost 5 out of 12 PL games when Solskjaer was sacked. United only lost 1 PL game between the 20th of November (Watford) and the 6th of March (City) under Carrick and Rangnick. That's 15 games (8 wins, 5 draws and 1 defeat). That's an improvement. Something had to be done to stop the bleeding. The season might have ended terribly from the City defeat onwards, but the entire season could have been a disaster had Solskjaer remained in charge. His time was up. I could have gotten even uglier.

It was the same when Mourinho was fired. Bringing in Solskjaer saved the middle portion of the season and brought some form of joy. The football improved and things were good for awhile. The only issue was the powers that be shooting their load early by making him permanent manager before the season was finished. Cheers, Rio.

This goes back to @Skills earlier post. An interim doesn't have to be a bad thing if there is a good option available.

Injuries/Availability

Nearly every team in the top half of the table has had injuries, suspensions or issues off the pitch.

City:

KDB - 32 games
Stones - 12 games
Doku - 10 games
Haaland - 9 games
Grealish - 6 games
Rodri - 3 games (suspensions)

Liverpool:

Bajcetic - 22 games
Robertson - 19 games
Matip - 9 games
Jota - 9 games (1 because of suspension)
C.Jones - 8 games (3 because of suspension)
Mac Allister - 7 games
Doak - 6 games
Alisson - 3 games
van Dijk - 3 games (2 because of suspension)
Gakpo - 3 games
Konate - 3 games
Tsimikas - 3 games
L.Diaz - 2 games (special leave)


Villa:

Buendia - 30 games
Mings - 29 games
Traoré - 17 games
J.Ramsey - 16 games
Moreno - 14 games
Tielemans - 6 games
Zaniolo - 5 games
Kamara - 4 games (suspensions)
Duran - 3 games
Digne - 2 games
Cash - 2 games (1 because of suspension)

Arsenal:

Timber - 28 games
Partey - 23 games
G.Jesus - 10 games
F.Vieira - 10 games
ESR - 9 games
Tomiyasu - 7 games (1 because of suspension)
Elneny - 6 games
Odegaard - 3 games
Zinchenko - 2 games

Spurs:

Sessegnon - 20 games
Perisic - 16 games
Bentancur - 16 games
Solomon - 14 games
Maddison - 10 games
van de Ven - 9 games
Romero - 6 games (3 because of suspension)
Bissouma - 6 games (suspensions)
Lo Celso - 5 games
A.Phillips - 5 games
Udogie - 3 games (2 because of suspension)
Sarr - 2 games
Richarlison - 2 games
Johnson - 2 games

West Ham:

B.Johnson - 15 games
Antonio - 12 games
Zouma - 6 games
Cresswell - 6 games
Aguerd 5 games

Brighton:

Enciso - 26 games
Lamptey - 20 games
Moder - 18 games
March - 17 games
Estupinan - 16 games
Welbeck - 12 games
Fati - 10 games
Webster - 10 games
Milner - 7 games
Dunk 5 games
Veltman - 5 games
Mitoma - 3 games
Igor - 3 games
Dahoud - 3 games (suspension)
Adingra - 2 games

Newcastle:

Willock - 24 games
Barnes - 23 games
Botman - 18 games
Anderson - 18 games
Tonali - 17 games (suspension)
J.Murphy - 17 games
Krafth - 17 games
Targett - 15 games
Wilson - 10 games
Pope - 9 games
Isak - 7 games
Joelinton - 7 games
Burn - 7 games
Longstaff - 4 games
Trippier - 2 games (1 because of suspension)

Chelsea:

Fofana - 25 games
Chalobah - 25 games
Chukwuemeka - 22 games
Lavia - 21 games
Nkunku - 20 games
Chilwell - 17 games
R.James - 16 games (1 because of suspension)
Badiashile - 12 games
Broja - 10 games
Cucurella - 8 games (1 because of suspension)
Ugochukwu - 8 games
Gusto - 7 games (2 because of suspension)
Madueke - 7 games
Sanchez - 6 games
Mudryk - 4 games
Enzo - 3 games
Caicedo - 2 games

United:

Malacia - 28 games
L.Martinez - 22 games
Shaw - 18 games
Casemiro - 16 games
Mount - 16 games
Mainoo - 12 games
AWB - 10 games
Eriksen - 7 games
Varane - 7 games
Maguire 7 games
Lindelof - 7 games
Antony - 6 games (5 because of special leave)
Hojlund - 5 games
Martial - 5 games
Amrabat - 5 games
Evans - 4 games
Rashford - 3 games (1 because of suspension)
 
Fair enough, given we have to set the structure before the structure agrees on the manager. Ten Hag is an interim manager who is auditioning for his job right now, and he'll likely get til the end of the season but I'd say he's currently failing the audition, but SJR just feels like it's a stretch to assume a new guy would save the season much anyway. So we get the structure in first, and then the structure decides what manager to target and if they are realistic before the end of the season.
 
DJ_21 said:
Let’s see if he wins something in his first season… would you take the 3pts Sunday or better football? I’d be very happy if we get both.
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Progess is what we need. Our football sadly is dire to watch. £400m for this?
 
I think it’s just a case of priorities-the season is most likely seen as a write off internally now so they can afford to tell the manager he’s effectively auditioning for the role now which is probably a good thing if he responds by telling them what he needs to succeed in terms of structure. Can def see ETH being out in summer if there is a real bad run in the second half of the season
 
Big Ben Foster said:
We did get this great moment out of it though
KsiqZB.gif
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That's all I think about when i hear the guys name :lol:
 
Shark said:
If the club is in free fall as we currently are now, and unable to score goals, well then it's up to the regime to find somebody who will put us back on track.
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But you assume there is someone, we need to be more mature with this.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Not have we seen a credible source claim a link to Guardiola or Fergie returning to manage is pure hokum, nor can you offer one.

That’s not how it works man. The Daily Star can report today that SJR wants Potter, Mbappe, Messi to return to Europe and Bellingham…. But we don’t need a credible source to deny it in order to not believe it.
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This is actually my point.

Any such report would be based upon probability.

Since Pep has his feet under the table at city, and Fergie is retired, your headline would not work.

SJR wanting Graham Potter is highly probable. It fits a certain pattern. Its premises are demonstrable, hence publication.

'Credible sources' are your gambit, not mine.
 
Rista said:
So you assume there isn't anyone and somehow that's the reasonable stance?
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Well I'm saying no because picking another manager without direction, or understanding our own club, is generally stupid. How are you going to come to the conclusion this new manager isn't going to do worse? What benefits do we get from doing a little better? What are the risks? What's the point in blindly doing it?
 
Hammondo said:
Well I'm saying no because picking another manager without direction, or understanding our own club, is generally stupid. How are you going to come to the conclusion this new manager isn't going to do worse? What benefits do we get from doing a little better? What are the risks? What's the point in blindly doing it?
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Well the only way he could do worse is if he gets us relegated. The bar is pretty low.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Ole’s s great example of how hit and miss it is.
He, as you say, started off like a house on fire, then turned to utter dogshit, ultimately ending that season in the exact position Mourinho had us in when fired. (6th).

Ole was also parachuted in for Cardiff to save them from the drop, which went terribly.

Fairly often it goes pretty shite with caretakers, as it did for Lampard, Hiddink’s second caretaker stint was crap, Ragnick too, so let’s not pretend it’s some recipe for success. I’m sure we all fondly remember Alan Shearer’s stint as manager of Newcastle.
Chelsea’s best mid-season change has to be Tuchel, who wasn’t an interim, but in fact a new top drawer permanent manager.

I’m sure no-one thinks or expects INEOS to bring in a new long term manager now, so barring examples of actual managerial changes, how often have caretakers done an amazing turn around job? Because I’m betting more often than not a temporary manager doesn’t inspire incredible change.
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I would refer you to post #310, that guy has shown that it has worked out 4/6 for Chelsea, hence proving my point.

Please revert back if there you have any more confusion.
 
Insanity said:
I would refer you to post #310, that guy has shown that it has worked out 4/6 for Chelsea, hence proving my point.
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Failed for Lampard, failed for Hiddink pt II, failed for Shearer, failed for Ragnick, failed for Ole, failed for Kinnear, failed for Stellini.

That’s 4 vs. 7 on caretaker positions I can remember in the PL, thus proving that it likely fails way more often than not.
And 4 is being generous as Di Matteo was utter wank in the league, and Avram Grant did well.. nothing.

All of those Chelsea interims for what it’s worth, had much better personnel than what all of the failing interim managers, both at Chelsea and elsewhere had.
One of them, Avram Grant has been referred to by Obi Mikel and Malouda as not having a clue and simply allowing all the training staff to do the job whilst he popped in occasionally to tell stories of Michael Jordan. He simply took over a brilliant Jose Mourinho side full of serial winners in their primes, Lampard, Drogba, Terry, Carvalho, Ballack, Cech, Makelele, Cole, Essien and did little to nothing himself. In Hiddink’s successful caretaker spell he had all those same superstars. The difference in his second “meh” spell as caretaker? Many of them had left and the squad was much worse.

If you think that even slightly resembles our current situation I don’t know what to think.
 
The very idea an interim could make us a miles better side because Avram Grant & Di Matteo managed some success with a squad featuring Lampard, Drogba, Terry, Carvalho, Ballack, Cech, Makelele, Cole, Essien is rather amusing though.

If anyone thinks a caretaker, who’ll be gone in 4 months could suddenly turn this lot into goalscoring machines and a much better outfit, just because some Chelsea caretakers did it with a squad full of superstars, they should really think a bit harder.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Failed for Lampard, failed for Hiddink pt II, failed for Shearer, failed for Ragnick, failed for Ole, failed for Kinnear, failed for Stellini.

That’s 4 vs. 7 on caretaker positions I can remember in the PL, thus proving that it likely fails way more often than not.
And 4 is being generous as Di Matteo was utter wank in the league, and Avram Grant did well.. nothing.

All of those Chelsea interims for what it’s worth, had much better personnel than what all of the failing interim managers, both at Chelsea and elsewhere had.
One of them, Avram Grant has been referred to by Obi Mikel and Malouda as not having a clue and simply allowing all the training staff to do the job whilst he popped in occasionally to tell stories of Michael Jordan. He simply took over a brilliant Jose Mourinho side full of serial winners in their primes, Lampard, Drogba, Terry, Carvalho, Ballack, Cech, Makelele, Cole, Essien and did little to nothing himself. In Hiddink’s successful caretaker spell he had all those same superstars. The difference in his second “meh” spell as caretaker? Many of them had left and the squad was much worse.

If you think that even slightly resembles our current situation I don’t know what to think.
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John Obi Mikel once said that we kidnapped him or some shit like that.

We have a side of "winners" too - Onana, Varane, Casemiro, Martinez, Eriksen, Antony, Mount etc., who have won trophies, some of them big ones, at different clubs/countries. Still ETH hasn't been able to do anything with them and only regressed to lose half the games this season.

First it was interim don't work, now those interim's that worked had awesome squads. You keep changing goalposts, I don't know what to think. It's quite amusing to see you turn yourself into knots though.

Can't wait for the next pivot.
 
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Insanity said:
John Obi Mikel once said he we kidnapped him or some shit like that.

We have a side of "winners" too - Onana, Varane, Casemiro, Martinez, Eriksen, Antony, Mount etc.,
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Yeah those names really rival Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Cole, Ballack, Essien, Drogba, Lampard, Makelele. That’s me told.

Quite funny, though, that you’ve included the names of two players who barely been available all season, and another one who has been missing for months.

I think you’re beyond naive if you think we have a team capable of suddenly turning it all around just by getting in a new caretaker manager for 4 months (and therefore not even a top manager). Now, if we get all of your “winners” back fit and available, then maybe we can improve, but surely that is the same case even if we have the current manager?
Our forwards can’t finish for toffee, that aint changing by bringing in some random caretaker bloke.
 
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Insanity said:
.

First it was interim don't work, now those interim's that worked had awesome squads. You keep changing goalposts, I don't know what to think. It's quite amusing to see you turn yourself into knots though.
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I’ve literally just given you seven examples of interims that did not work both at Chelsea United and other clubs, that’s almost double your four that did work.

One of the ones that did work was because his team won the Champions League final, however, their results that season remained shit during his time and they finished sixth in the league so not exactly the type of interim that would help us now either.

I have never said “interims don’t work”, so no need to put words in my mouth. There’s no pivot to be made, my argument is that more often and not a temporary 4 month manager can’t turn water to wine and give the desired result & for me the stats for caretakers show it’s likely a risk not worth taking when INEOS have so many other things to worry about and positions to tend to before starting their new managerial chase .
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Yeah those names really rival Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Cole, Ballack, Essien, Drogba, Lampard, Makelele. That’s me told.

Quite funny, though, that you’ve included the names of two players who barely been available all season, and another one who has been missing for months.

I think you’re beyond naive if you think we have a team capable of suddenly turning it all around just by getting in a new caretaker manager for 4 months (and therefore not even a top manager). Now, if we get all of your “winners” back fit and available, then maybe we can improve, but surely that is the same case even if we have the current manager?
Our forwards can’t finish for toffee, that aint changing by bringing in some random caretaker bloke.
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Spot on. Maybe the team will play a bit harder the first few weeks but after the novelty wears off it'd be business as usual
 
parmenio said:
Why wait 6 months ? He’s not up to the job simple as that.
Surely since being involved in the take over and then winning work has been going on to formulate a plan to improve this set up. Ineos didnt just buy United and then right we got them what we do now?
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Well clearly the vast majority on this forum made it clear that ETH was the man for the job. Post after post saying he was the man. Now it is post after post saying he isn’t…………..I remember the Fergie Out campaign and Mark Robbins scoring in the FA Cup to ‘save his job’ . First full season got 2nd place and then In 1989-90 came 11th and 1990-91 13th having gained only 7 points from 1st 9 games.

There are not many on here now who would have backed him back then with that record!
 
The main reason why I would favour an interim over ETH is the fact that he could set the team in a more balanced way without self-imposed dogmas limiting his hand. Any attempt to turn things around starts from improving our defensive game and I can't see it happening under ten Hag when you analyze our performances this season either with or without injuries.

An interim manager also means 11 open spots so the sense of competition among the squad will increase. Tactical balance and some boost in intensity could bring better results and improve confidence, and that would create a positive dynamic for the coming months.

It would allow the new structure to evaluate the squad better than if these players keep looking shot under ETH. Maybe some players under question marks start performing better in a better context and help us securing an european place, and some others increase their market value for the summer window.

I checked our defensive numbers and in 21/22 (Ole/Rangnick) we conceded 13.4 shots per game despite the players looking careless for long periods. This season under ETH we've conceded 15.1 shots per game (5th worst in the league at the moment).

Imagine spending 400 M, with the players trying and behind the manager and being even weaker than a team where nobody gave a shit + carrying a passenger like Ronaldo with 0 defensive efforts + a keeper glued to the goal line without preventing shots. There's no injuries in the world that can justify how easy it gets to reach our box. This is mainly on ten Hag.

Rangnick is named on here as the ultimate proof of how interims don't work at United, when he was acting as a director for years (so there was a margin to pick a better one, an actual manager). And even then after three months we were creating the most chances in the league, surely better than now under this bald fool who's wildly exposing our defense to score just 22 goals in 20 games.



In 18/19 under Ole interim/permanent we were the 3rd best team in the league, from December to the end of the season despite the tragic final month. We didn't get top-4 but we were really close around March-April when it looked impossible in December so it was worth to try. Paris, Chelsea away in the cup didn't hurt by the way. It was enjoyable and showed how those players were capable of more as it's surely the case now.

We'll see what Ineos really think and do when they're officially in charge, but this defeatist attitude from fans like "nothing matters, everything is lost, let's not change anything" smells like some poor demoralization trick from ETH's fanclub, so we accept the dutch virus staying for 5 months without complaining.

When we were still in Europe and closer to top-4 it didn't make sense to sack him because everything was open. "He still has credit from the first season", "we still have a chance". And now it's pointless sacking him because 'everything is lost anyway'. So basically and according to ETH's sacred church it never makes sense to sack this man no matter what happens.

Honestly it's difficult to understand the blind fanaticism around this man. He gave us around 6 months of decent results and competitive performances by playing mostly caveman football (registered the deepest defensive line in the whole league at some point), a tin cup with one of the easiest paths I remember, and almost a year now of permanent garbage after it. With awful judgement and decisions in every area and (as a consequence) breaking negative records of all kind.

He doesn't even aim to develop a team similar to Ajax anymore, but some strange mixture "with our DNA" or something that doesn't sound convincing not even on paper. So I don't know what people are trying to protect so much or nurture by keeping this guy around. It's something irrational at this point.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I’ve literally just given you seven examples of interims that did not work both at Chelsea United and other clubs, that’s almost double your four that did work.

One of the ones that did work was because his team won the Champions League final, however, their results that season remained shit during his time and they finished sixth in the league so not exactly the type of interim that would help us now either.

I have never said “interims don’t work”, so no need to put words in my mouth. There’s no pivot to be made, my argument is that more often and not a temporary 4 month manager can’t turn water to wine and give the desired result & for me the stats for caretakers show it’s likely a risk not worth taking when INEOS have so many other things to worry about and positions to tend to before starting their new managerial chase .
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We are not trying to win the champions league. Merely looking for some goals scored. Our ceiling and expectations are not very high due to the fraud clown lowering them every week this whole season.

But hey, feel free to pivot again.
 
You can't really say it's a missed opportunity since we have no one to replace him, no planning at alll.
 
Insanity said:
We are not trying to win the champions league. Merely looking for some goals scored. Our ceiling and expectations are not very high due to the fraud clown lowering them every week this whole season.

But hey, feel free to pivot again.
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Show me the pivot and I’ll hold my hands up.

Argument all along has been that interims often fail and “scoring a few goals” probably isn’t reason enough for INEOS to burden themselves with installing and babysitting a new manager into the club when they haven’t even gotten their feet under the table yet and are likely to embark upon a full scale restructuring of the entire footballing side of the club.
 
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