Should ETH have a say on INEOS transfers or accept whatever he is given?

If you want further dysfunction you leave him out of transfer discussions. It has to be a collective decision to sign players.

He was given full reign and it hasn't worked out but that doesn't mean his or any other managers input isn't crucial.
 
Take the question posed in the thread title and instead of answering from a supporters point of view take a look from the perspective of a potential manager being courted by the club to replace Ten Hag.
 
neon_badger said:
Take the question posed in the thread title and instead of answering from a supporters point of view take a look from the perspective of a potential manager being courted by the club to replace Ten Hag.
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I'd tell him to go and find another job in football that pays £7m+ a year.
 
gaffs said:
Was there a lack of alternatives?

Or was it that Ten Hag was in a tough position with the losses against Brighton and Brentford and just wanted "his man", no matter the price?

I do find it hilarious to assume that United, with 50+ scouts, were not able to identify one right sided forward, thus forcing the manager to sign Antony.
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It seems like we have great trouble convincing targets to sign for us. This is probably a contributing factor to that failure.
 
I think manager shouldn’t be given the power to choose players (it should be up to the recruitment department who spend lot of time analyse and watch the player), but manager should still be given the power to say yes or no to the nominated player. I think the best structure should be:
  • ETH will tell the chief recruitment what kind of players he wants and why he needs these type of player to his tactical set up,
  • Then the chief recruitment will nominate the player and demonstrate a tactical analysis including stats and lot of clips why these players will fit to his demands and playing style. This is the stage where ten Hag can say yes or no.
  • At the same time, the chief recruitment will tell the sporting director about the player’s price value and how the player fits the club’s profile and club’s objectives. Therefore, you will get manager, chief recruitment and sporting director are aligned together with the signing.
This will increase the probability of the club signing the right players and using them the right way.
 
Skills said:
I'd tell him to go and find another job in football that pays £7m+ a year.
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If he'd have been that interested in money he'd have joined the lucrative family real estate business instead of mid table Eredivisie footballer and initially a youth team coach.
 
I feel going forward, managers should only be given a say if they can demonstrate that in previous jobs, they were part of the successful recruitment of players.

EtH was already known to be bad in the transfer market at Ajax so he should never have had such privileges here. Ancelotti for example has always worked with a footballing department making signings for him so say he was to join us why would we want him involved.

The manager has been brought in to implement a style of play and get results and trophies. It’s then up to those above to bring in players who fit this system. Managers by nature are shortsighted in their thinking because their jobs are not safe, which is why the people above the manager think strategically. The mistake a big part of the fan base still makes is having the expectation that a manager is a long term appointment.

It’s a moot point as ETH won’t be here but he should be nowhere near making decisions on our signings. He’s shown he doesn’t have a clue how to squad build or evaluate talent based on his time here
 
After Antony he has to take a back seat, but the collaboration should be there. The scouting/recruitment team under INEOS should be (if they keep ETH) recruiting solely based on the tactics and depth the manager requires. The manager should be allowed to give names and "talent spot" players for consideration. When INEOS know the budget available and the work done on the scouting those options, they should be ranked, inform the manager and try and sign them from top wish to last resort. If ETH's picks don't make the cut, he has to suck it up. If the manager doesn't like a "top wish" then he has to prove the scouts/recruitment people wrong with data/analytics or well known info about them being pricks etc....*cough* Sancho.
Everyone should be on the same page and the end result is either they all win on a good transfer or all cop the blame on a bad one. We are no longer is a position financially or talent wise where any one person or department should be given "total control".
 
He can have a say and give his reasons for wanting or not wanting a player. However, he should not have a veto.
 
ManchesterMats said:
He should’t have any say at all. When he’s had a say we’ve lost our best players; Ronaldo and now Sancho and brought in his non-performing soyboys for ridicoulos money.
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Sancho and an aging, grumpy Ronaldo are our best players?

Eth’s buys are mostly rubbish but it’s not a mistake to clear these two out.
 
United888 said:
I think manager shouldn’t be given the power to choose players (it should be up to the recruitment department who spend lot of time analyse and watch the player), but manager should still be given the power to say yes or no to the nominated player. I think the best structure should be:
  • ETH will tell the chief recruitment what kind of players he wants and why he needs these type of player to his tactical set up,
  • Then the chief recruitment will nominate the player and demonstrate a tactical analysis including stats and lot of clips why these players will fit to his demands and playing style. This is the stage where ten Hag can say yes or no.
  • At the same time, the chief recruitment will tell the sporting director about the player’s price value and how the player fits the club’s profile and club’s objectives. Therefore, you will get manager, chief recruitment and sporting director are aligned together with the signing.
This will increase the probability of the club signing the right players and using them the right way.
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Very good post
 
They can allow him to have an opinion given he's still the coach (won't be for long I think) but he should not have any deciding say on players. He lost all rights to a deciding say when he blew £400m and the team is worse than when he joined.
 
gaffs said:
Was there a lack of alternatives?

Or was it that Ten Hag was in a tough position with the losses against Brighton and Brentford and just wanted "his man", no matter the price?

I do find it hilarious to assume that United, with 50+ scouts, were not able to identify one right sided forward, thus forcing the manager to sign Antony.
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Why is it hard to believe?
We have dysfunctional midfield for decade .
Scouts, head of football & manager never been in the same page
 
Tap said:
Sancho and an aging, grumpy Ronaldo are our best players?

Eth’s buys are mostly rubbish but it’s not a mistake to clear these two out.
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Ronaldo and Sancho are two worldclass players that could have been performing in United if it wasn’t for Ten Hags bad managing skills.

Instead of managing the players Ten Hag acted like a f#cking rookie and made conflicts with them. That’s just bad managing skills.
 
United888 said:
I think manager shouldn’t be given the power to choose players (it should be up to the recruitment department who spend lot of time analyse and watch the player), but manager should still be given the power to say yes or no to the nominated player. I think the best structure should be:
  • ETH will tell the chief recruitment what kind of players he wants and why he needs these type of player to his tactical set up,
  • Then the chief recruitment will nominate the player and demonstrate a tactical analysis including stats and lot of clips why these players will fit to his demands and playing style. This is the stage where ten Hag can say yes or no.
  • At the same time, the chief recruitment will tell the sporting director about the player’s price value and how the player fits the club’s profile and club’s objectives. Therefore, you will get manager, chief recruitment and sporting director are aligned together with the signing.
This will increase the probability of the club signing the right players and using them the right way.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree with that.

The manager should have some input, given that they're the ones who'll be selecting the players and will have an idea (or should have!) how they want to play. But, as you say, the recruitment team - with all the scouts, data, etc - should be the ones looking at all the options that best suit those preferences, out of a wide array of players analysed, and giving those recommendations to the manager. Rather than the old fashioned 'manager chooses from limited range of players they've worked with before / contacts with former clubs', etc. Football at the highest level has mostly moved on from that. For successfully run sides, anyway.

If the structure put in place is solid, and there's a good relationship / mutual respect between the manager and his recruitment team, then all of that should be perfectly achievable and should have a much higher likelihood of success in the transfer market. Where it could go wrong is if we get the balance wrong, or there's not a good working relationship between the management and recruitment side of it. Only time will tell if INEOS prove to be the ones who finally start getting a good recruitment system in place - but it's vital that they do get it right.
 
ManchesterMats said:
Ronaldo and Sancho are two worldclass players that could have been performing in United if it wasn’t for Ten Hags bad managing skills.

Instead of managing the players Ten Hag acted like a f#cking rookie and made conflicts with them. That’s just bad managing skills.
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Sancho looked the exact same under Ten Hag as he did under Ole and has for England. Weak, timid and slow.

I am firmly in the Ten Hag out camp at this point but Sancho has only himself to blame for his truly horrendous performance levels.

Ronaldo was given more game time than his performances warranted and then still decided to do one of the most unprofessional things a top level player has ever done. He ended his Utd career.
 
He, like any other manager, should have a certain say. But he, specifically, should also get fired.
Why would we go along with the whims of a manager we will replace (I hope) in a short amount of time?

I hope the new management has someone else in mind for the beginning of next season, and if that's the case,
we shouldn't buy anyone. who cares whether we finish 12th, 10th or 7th in the PL.

If I'm completely wrong and he stays for the long term-
sure he needs to have a say. not a veto right, but a say nonetheless.
No manager will work in an environment where only other people decide what the team is going to look like.
 
ScholesyTheWise said:
He, like any other manager, should have a certain say. But he, specifically, should also get fired.
Why would we go along with the whims of a manager we will replace (I hope) in a short amount of time?

I hope the new management has someone else in mind for the beginning of next season, and if that's the case,
we shouldn't buy anyone. who cares whether we finish 12th, 10th or 7th in the PL.

If I'm completely wrong and he stays for the long term-
sure he needs to have a say. not a veto right, but a say nonetheless.
No manager will work in an environment where only other people decide what the team is going to look like.
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Came to say the same thing.

I understand the fanbase live under a Fergie complex where each manager can do worse than the next but one win will suddenly turn them into a 30 year great but EtH is done here. No amountnn no of posed photos with handshakes is going to change that.

Ineos will pay him lip service but any manager that loses 14 games before New Year at Manchester United should be consulting with the job centre not new owners who their disciples say are going to raise standards & do things differently. Performance like this should lead to swift termination.
 
Shouldn’t be his job at all in the slightest. He’s a coach. The club buys players for a style they want and his only job should be implementing them.

Our managers for years have been asked to do far too many responsibilities. Focus on coaching and the odd interview, nothing else.

The Fergie days are long dead in the sport. Pep might be as close to that but again he has huge financial interest in the City Group with friends and family jobs etc like Fergie did here.

ETH is just a coach nothing more. We need to stop putting managers on a pedestal. Liverpool and United both do that unlike any other clubs.
 
The thing is even back in Mourinhos day, didn't he say he had to be scout negotiator and beg for the money to sign a player as the above were useless, i.e. had to do virtually everything? Woodward and Murtough look at the bottom line and a player as an asset money wise, rather than performance wise.
This is why TH, up tolast summer had total say on all th players he has signed since he has been here, with the link virtually all being Dutch or Dutch football, one way or another, Casemiro aside.
I firmly believe what Ratcliffe and co are trying to implement will greatly improve our transfer process going forward in and out, and with only a part input, any managers work here will be a lot easier..
 
ManchesterMats said:
Ronaldo and Sancho are two worldclass players that could have been performing in United if it wasn’t for Ten Hags bad managing skills.

Instead of managing the players Ten Hag acted like a f#cking rookie and made conflicts with them. That’s just bad managing skills.
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Oh please, what has Sancho ever done to be considered world class?
 
Blindfold the manager and have the board say "We want this player"
Then the manager can decide to say yes, or to express his objection
In the case of objection, burning charcoals will be provided and the manager will be asked to walk on them
If he flinches, the board wins. If not he can ask for any player he wants (as long as it's within the budget)
 
I think the issue is just what kind of say the manager has.

When people say the manager should tell the club what he "needs" for this "tactics", those needs should be broad. If the "needs" are too narrow then you're more likely to buy a mediocre player who just ticks a few boxes.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I think the issue is just what kind of say the manager has.

When people say the manager should tell the club what he "needs" for this "tactics", those needs should be broad. If the "needs" are too narrow then you're more likely to buy a mediocre player who just ticks a few boxes.
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Agree. Something like a fast powerful winger with good technique is ok. An inverted left-foot winger might be too narrow.
 
ManchesterMats said:
He should’t have any say at all. When he’s had a say we’ve lost our best players; Ronaldo and now Sancho and brought in his non-performing soyboys for ridicoulos money.
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What the feck is this term soy boy that you keep bandying about?
 
jem said:
What the feck is this term soy boy that you keep bandying about?
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Childish insult used by trolls and incel's to paint anybody left wing/liberal as lacking masculinity which @ManchesterMats seems to be wrongly applying to people that are physically and mentally stronger than most of us could ever imagine. Standard Ronaldo fanboy/keyboard warrior giving Newbies a bad name, hopefully he'll scurry back to his Andrew Tate appreciation Reddit page.
 
neon_badger said:
Childish insult used by trolls and incel's to paint anybody left wing/liberal as lacking masculinity which @ManchesterMats seems to be wrongly applying to people that are physically and mentally stronger than most of us could ever imagine. Standard Ronaldo fanboy/keyboard warrior giving Newbies a bad name, hopefully he'll scurry back to his Andrew Tate appreciation Reddit page.
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Speaking of childish insults....
 
Roberto De Zerbi said he didn't even know who Joao Pedro was when he signed today and he's been very good for them, which shows what 1) good recruitment does for any manager 2) that maybe it should be left out of manager's hands and leave them to coaching. Our system of the manager picking players he knows has not worked anywhere near as well.
 
The transfer department and the coach need to be on the same page. Otherwise you have a dysfunctional club like we've had since SAF retired.
 
Absolutely not, it’s proven he signs utter dross so he should be nowhere near bringing in players.

keep him well away from that side of the club.
 
Ady87 said:
His signings have been objectively poor, I’d take the decision out of his hands.
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While I agree with you, we need to acknowledge
He recognised early what we needed
A new goal keeper
A new centre back pairing
A DM
A #8
A new right winger
A new Centre forward

He obviously did not but the right players.
In a proper set up it should have been that ETH went to the DOF and said this is what I want with this priority.
The DOF then goes to the head of recruitment who sends out his scouts to find the right players.
The head of recruitment, DOF and ETH then asses the potential recruits and make a decision
ETH should also specifiy what are the attributes of his playeres
Goal Kepper Able to play with his feet and good distribution
Center Backs Mobile and happy with the ball at their feet. Able to push into midfield if necessary
DM Able to defend in front of the defense and turn defense into attack
#8 all round midfileder able to defend when neceessary and help the attack when necessary, full of energy
Right Winger. Decide Old Fashioned who can beat a defender and deliver crosses or an inverted left footer
CF An establised CF goalscorer or a footballing CF who can link with the midfield and wingers and get others to score goals, but also scores a few himself
Never going to happen in 1 go so we needed some interim players
Luckily Garnacho and Mainoo have filled 2 of those positions. Amad may fill the right wing position and Gore may be the the # 8, but these are young players and time will tell
 
ManchesterMats said:
Ronaldo and Sancho are two worldclass players that could have been performing in United if it wasn’t for Ten Hags bad managing skills.

Instead of managing the players Ten Hag acted like a f#cking rookie and made conflicts with them. That’s just bad managing skills.
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Are you forgetting the minor detail that Sancho had massively underwhelmed BEFORE Ten Hag came in?
 
Sandikan said:
Are you forgetting the minor detail that Sancho had massively underwhelmed BEFORE Ten Hag came in?
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He’s still a great player though. It was Ten Hags job to get him back on track. Now we’re throwing him away like garbage because Ten Hag failed.

I won’t be surprised when Sancho starts putting in worldclass performances in Dortmund again. Will you?
 
ManchesterMats said:
He’s still a great player though. It was Ten Hags job to get him back on track. Now we’re throwing him away like garbage because Ten Hag failed.

I won’t be surprised when Sancho starts putting in worldclass performances in Dortmund again. Will you?
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He was promising in a lesser league. I expect he'll get back to decent performances if his attitude doesn't stink things up.
 
ManchesterMats said:
He’s still a great player though. It was Ten Hags job to get him back on track. Now we’re throwing him away like garbage because Ten Hag failed.

I won’t be surprised when Sancho starts putting in worldclass performances in Dortmund again. Will you?
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Ten Hag did everything he could to get him back on track, including giving him 4 months away with personal trainers in the Netherlands to try and get his act together. I’d say that it’s Sancho that has failed much more then ETH. Yes, the spat was unnecessary and could have been dealt with better, but Sancho hasn’t been anything like world class here for United.
 
ManchesterMats said:
He’s still a great player though. It was Ten Hags job to get him back on track. Now we’re throwing him away like garbage because Ten Hag failed.

I won’t be surprised when Sancho starts putting in worldclass performances in Dortmund again. Will you?
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Now haaland isn't at dortmund anymore doing his tap ins it'll be interesting to see just how effective sancho can be. I honestly think he will be very underwhelming.
 
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