Sheep draft SF - kps88 vs Joga Bonito

Who would win based on player peak?

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
I can come up with a fairly similar video for Donadoni as well but I don't want to get into the video posting game.

Burgnich was a right sided player who played right full back or right center back/sweeper. I doubt he's played more than a handful of games, if any, as a left back in a four man defense. At least I can't find any evidence to support that (happy to be proven wrong though). I know it's a fantasy draft, but familiarity and basis in reality has to count for something.

You're asking him to face one of the greatest wingers of all time from a position he's barely/never played in before.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Bump.. Come on lads, where's the fireworks?
Redondo is a shit midfielder Schuster will dominate him.
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Comon Redondo was on the same level as the greatest pl midfilders scholes, keane and Vieira. Tore us a new one at OT in 2000
 
paulscholes18 said:
Comon Redondo was on the same level as the greatest pl midfilders scholes, keane and Vieira. Tore us a new one at OT in 2000
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It was a joke, he was trying to liven up the thread somehow
 
This one's dead. I'd also argue the final will be dead as long as Cutch recruits correctly.
 
I think the fullback swap is a mistake. I did some googling and could not find any details of Burgnich operating at LB. RB & CB/S seems to be his strong positions. Against a wingers as string as Garrincha, this may turn out to be a glaring weakness. I would have voted for Joga before, but now unless I see a strong argument on effectiveness of Burgnich, my vote leans towards kps.
 
Holy shit its 7-6 now. I don't see how Joga got back but fair play
 
I presume the Burgnich thing amounts to sticking him on Garrincha. In which case I don't see a problem. He's not being asked to play LB in any meaningful sense, he's being asked to do a marking job on Garrincha.

Makes sense to me.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think the fullback swap is a mistake. I did some googling and could not find any details of Burgnich operating at LB. RB & CB/S seems to be his strong positions. Against a wingers as string as Garrincha, this may turn out to be a glaring weakness. I would have voted for Joga before, but now unless I see a strong argument on effectiveness of Burgnich, my vote leans towards kps.
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His role is very different from a modern fullback - he played on the right because that system had an offensive left back (in Facchetti, later Cabrini etc.) and defensive right side-back, role mostly similar to the modern CB/RCB. He also played as a stopper (where Guarneri plays in the picture) and as a libero (Picchi), so he is obviously capable of playing everywhere at the back. He was assigned to a man-marking duty - and it doesn't really matter where do you man-mark your player if this is your only task - and this is his only task in this game, if I understand Joga correctly, reducing Garrincha's influence (it would be foolish not to do so).

256311d1340802202-helenio-herrera-grande-inter-recreation-tactic-la-grande-inter-model1.jpg
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think the fullback swap is a mistake. I did some googling and could not find any details of Burgnich operating at LB. RB & CB/S seems to be his strong positions. Against a wingers as string as Garrincha, this may turn out to be a glaring weakness. I would have voted for Joga before, but now unless I see a strong argument on effectiveness of Burgnich, my vote leans towards kps.
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Here, on the first color footage (from 0:15) he clears the ball twice on the left (Facchetti is strolling back there, you can see it).
 
I would have preferred Laudrup playing to Donadoni, he's much better and capable of deciding a match in a way that few others are.

In general I don't have much of a problem with the 'too many cooks' issue that a few others have unless its obviously silly, and with Laudrup in particular I think he would be fine to the left of Platini. He was a great dribbler as well as passer so he's fine in a wider role cutting in.

Also Kps really should have picked Muller IMO - he suits this team more than Puskas.

That being said, Kps has more quality in his side than Joga.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I presume the Burgnich thing amounts to sticking him on Garrincha. In which case I don't see a problem. He's not being asked to play LB in any meaningful sense, he's being asked to do a marking job on Garrincha.

Makes sense to me.
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Same here and, further elaborating on my post earlier, Garrincha is getting massively overrated here.

He retains the same potential for individual match-winning brilliance, but in a side with Platini pulling the strings I can't see him contributing much, certainly less than Donadoni.

Platini was an orchestrator of free-flowing teamwork, he was surgical and with the right associates (Boniek=Donadoni here) he eviscerated defences at will. Garrincha's floritudes and his tendency to play his own separate game in his jogobonito world won't go down well with Michel who will find him frustrating. He will only resort to him when Tigana/Donadoni and Puskas don't offer good options (i.e. rarely).
 
antohan said:
Same here and, further elaborating on my post earlier, Garrincha is getting massively overrated here.

He retains the same potential for individual match-winning brilliance, but in a side with Platini pulling the strings I can't see him contributing much, certainly less than Donadoni.

Platini was an orchestrator of free-flowing teamwork, he was surgical and with the right associates (Boniek=Donadoni here) he eviscerated defences at will. Garrincha's floritudes and his tendency to play his own separate game in his jogobonito world won't go down well with Michel who will find him frustrating. He will only resort to him when Tigana/Donadoni and Puskas don't offer good options (i.e. rarely).
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Good post.


I seem to remember you picking Garrincha once and giving him no instructions at all, just let him play. Was a master stroke!
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think the fullback swap is a mistake. I did some googling and could not find any details of Burgnich operating at LB. RB & CB/S seems to be his strong positions. Against a wingers as string as Garrincha, this may turn out to be a glaring weakness. I would have voted for Joga before, but now unless I see a strong argument on effectiveness of Burgnich, my vote leans towards kps.
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harms said:
His role is very different from a modern fullback - he played on the right because that system had an offensive left back (in Facchetti, later Cabrini etc.) and defensive right side-back, role mostly similar to the modern CB/RCB. He also played as a stopper (where Guarneri plays in the picture) and as a libero (Picchi), so he is obviously capable of playing everywhere at the back. He was assigned to a man-marking duty - and it doesn't really matter where do you man-mark your player if this is your only task - and this is his only task in this game, if I understand Joga correctly, reducing Garrincha's influence (it would be foolish not to do so).

256311d1340802202-helenio-herrera-grande-inter-recreation-tactic-la-grande-inter-model1.jpg
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Chesterlestreet said:
I presume the Burgnich thing amounts to sticking him on Garrincha. In which case I don't see a problem. He's not being asked to play LB in any meaningful sense, he's being asked to do a marking job on Garrincha.

Makes sense to me.
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Exactly, couldn't have said it any better myself harms. The same way Camacho did against Dzajic on the right despite being a LB and I also remember reading about Vogts playing on the left against Johnstone although personally, I haven't watched that myself. Point being that Burgnich could play that defensive role on the left and did so for Inter at times when required (not too many with Facchetti there ofc),
 
Gio said:
Looks like he's playing centre-half there.
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Yeah, he is - because there was no left "side back" role in that system. I was just pointing out that his defensive skills didn't suddenly vanished when he ran to the left side.
 
harms said:
Yeah, he is - because there was no left "side back" role in that system. I was just pointing out that his defensive skills didn't suddenly vanished when he ran to the left side.
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Yeah he'll be fine there in that role.
 
MTR said:
You can call me ignorant, but for me Joga Bonito's team is superior and I'm amazed with how close this game is.
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If you hate Herrera your an ignorant :lol:

Just kidding mate, no one is ignorant here, we all have our crazy radical thoughts.. I completely disagree with you here, I'm actually going crazy thinking how kps isn't streaming through this game atm. Redondo-Tigana-Platini is pretty much perfect balance in midfield, Tigana wouldn't normally be semi final worthy but with Platini that's a proven combination that Platini thrived under and some say Tigana was the key role in that France side. Bergomi-Cannavaro is incredibly strong and I reckon Bergomi against MvB will be very interesting. On the other hand with Donadoni stretching the play, Garrincha giving freedom to do feck he wants on the pitch with Sagnol providing width and Platini pulling the strings to find Puskas to score. God, that's an orgasm right there.
Sure, Puskas might've not been the ideal striker choice and I'd have Muller there before him without blinking, but I don't see a chance he won't score here.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
If you hate Herrera your an ignorant :lol:

Just kidding mate, no one is ignorant here, we all have our crazy radical thoughts.. I completely disagree with you here, I'm actually going crazy thinking how kps isn't streaming through this game atm. Redondo-Tigana-Platini is pretty much perfect balance in midfield, Tigana wouldn't normally be semi final worthy but with Platini that's a proven combination that Platini thrived under and some say Tigana was the key role in that France side. Bergomi-Cannavaro is incredibly strong and I reckon Bergomi against MvB will be very interesting. On the other hand with Donadoni stretching the play, Garrincha giving freedom to do feck he wants on the pitch with Sagnol providing width and Platini pulling the strings to find Puskas to score. God, that's an orgasm right there.
Sure, Puskas might've not been the ideal striker choice and I'd have Muller there before him without blinking, but I don't see a chance he won't score here.
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Firstly there's going to be no 'streaming' going on here.

Secondly Tigana isn't semi worthy? Ffs :confused:.

So Garrincha has the freedom to do whatever the feck he wants with Michel Platini and Puskas on the side? Sure, that's going to go well... Sagnol provides width with feckall cover from Mane and having to deal with Czibor who has the beating of him. OK...

Donadoni stretching play whilst squaring up against Brehme and having to help out Carboni who's going to need help against Littbarski. Wowzer.

All these whilst giving zero consideration to how his team functions tactically or squares up against my defense.

Thanks for that intriguing piece of insight. Enjoy that orgasm.

Edit: That was you being facetious and trying to 'liven' up the thread right? Which resulted in my faux outrage post. Or were you actually serious? :nervous:
 
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Picking up now.. Joga has a side which is top class through out the side whereas for me.. kps is top heavy. Classic game for the counter attack and it plays nicely into Jogas hands. The very least he deserves is pens here. . Sagnol and Carboni? Cannavaro v Van Basten?
 
I will be off soon and will be back 2-3 hours before the match ends. Any questions about my team of tactics? Has been strangely quiet for the last 2 matches.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
So you think Redondo is better than Scholes and Keane?
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No not better as keane and scholes make my life time 11 also Keane makes my all time 11. Redondo does come very close that is why I said the same level.
I would pick Redondo over any of Joga midfilders
 
paulscholes18 said:
No not better as keane and scholes make my life time 11 also Keane makes my all time 11. Redondo does come very close that is why I said the same level.
I would pick Redondo over any of Joga midfilders
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Lots would disagree with you I think.

For one, Lusito Suarez has won a Balon d'Or which Redondo never has. Schuster (whom I personally don't know much about) is reputed to be as good, if not better. And I rate Davids over Tigana.
 
paulscholes18 said:
No not better as keane and scholes make my life time 11 also Keane makes my all time 11. Redondo does come very close that is why I said the same level.
I would pick Redondo over any of Joga midfilders
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Fair enough, but in that DM position, there wasn't much between Redondo and Davids imo. One was a more cultured and technical DM whilst the other was a mobile, more defensively solid and an athletic DM. In my team I'd rather have Davids than Redondo and Redondo over Davids in his tactical set up.

Regardless of the vote I'm sure you'd also find it interesting to read up more on Schuster & Suárez if you haven't already from the OP.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Lots would disagree with you I think.

For one, Lusito Suarez has won a Balon d'Or which Redondo never has. Schuster (whom I personally don't know much about) is reputed to be as good, if not better. And I rate Davids over Tigana.
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Pablo Rossi won the Balon d'or so would you rate him the same as Eusabio and pick him over Thierry Henry, Rooney, RVN & Puskas
 
Joga Bonito said:
Fair enough, but in that DM position, there wasn't much between Redondo and Davids imo. One was a more cultured and technical DM whilst the other was a mobile, more defensively solid and an athletic DM. In my team I'd rather have Davids than Redondo and Redondo over Davids in his tactical set up.

Regardless of the vote I'm sure you'd also find it interesting to read up more on Schuster & Suárez if you haven't already from the OP.
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Will read up on those 2 players, always trying to improve my football knowledge
 
paulscholes18 said:
Will read up on those 2 players, always trying to improve my football knowledge
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They are pretty long but really informative. The Suárez write up should portray his true calibre and he's one of the most criminally underrated greats ever.
 
paulscholes18 said:
Pablo Rossi won the Balon d'or so would you rate him the same as Eusabio and pick him over Thierry Henry, Rooney, RVN & Puskas
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Was Paolo Rossi nominated for Ballon d'Or 8 times? Was he 2nd on two other ocasions? 3rd and 4th on next two?

It's baffling how Luis Suarez was forgotten. He should be considered as one of the all time greats.
 
Am I reading it right. Just stick any CB on the left, then Garrincha is nulified? Can we stick any CB in midfield, and Platini would be nulified also?
 
Isotope said:
Am I reading it right. Just stick any CB on the left, then Garrincha is nulified? Can we stick any CB in midfield, and Platini would be nulified also?
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He isn't any CB. He's a catenaccio style fullback and an excellent, first rate man marker.

And it's a classic marking job: Sacrifice one man (who isn't expected to contribute much beyond staying on his target) to minimize the impact of your opponent's most dangerous player.

Don't see the problem with it at all, it's a time honoured scheme, if anything. The question one must always ask is whether the manager can afford to make the sacrifice. In this case, I'd say yes - he can. Putting someone on Garrincha makes perfect sense.

In a different match, with different players, you could put someone on Platini - sure. I wouldn't do that here, though. And it's obviously a question of doing things within reason. You can't slap CBs on every man out there and expect people to fall for it. But taking out * one part of the equation in this fashion is not only plausible, it's an obvious move to make given the personnel on both sides.

* Or attempting to do so.
 
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