Sheep Draft R1: prath92/KM vs. P-Nut0712 - Voting closed

[green_smiley]

vs.

prath92/KM vs. P-Nut0712​

prath92/KM

Starting XI

Edwin Van der Sar - Goalkeeper
Gianluca Zambrotta - Right Back
Nemanja Vidic - Stopper
Bobby Moore - Ball playing CB
Marcelo - Left Back
Nobby stiles - defensive midfielder
Xabi Alonso - Deep Lying Playmaker
Rui Costa - Attacking midfielder
Ronaldinho - Left Forward
Michael Owen - Centre Forward
Raymond Kopa - Rught Forward

Defence

Our defence is watertight with a GOAT CB pairing. Marcelo could probably be one of the best fullbacks ever and Zambrotta was a key fullback for club and country. Van der Sar and Nobby stiles make it a more formidable unit and Alonso was no slouch either

Midfield

Nobby stiles is at the base of midfield, w
with alonso and Rui Costa alongside him. Both are excellent playmakers with ability to pick out passes for the attackers

Forward

Three ballon d’or winners up front. Ronaldinho on the left, Owen through the middle and a Kopa as a right Forward, a role he actually played at Real Madrid in the 50s. All excellent forwards and lethal finishers/dribblers, will be a handful for any backline


P-Nut0712

Player Roles

Pepe Reina - Traditional Goalkeeper
Juanfran - Defensive fullback
Sergio Ramos - Stopper
Sol Campbell - Stopper
Alex Sandro - Balanced Fullback
Schilcher - Sheep - Defensive midfielder
Bastian Schweinsteiger - B2B midfielder
Luis Figo - Roaming playmaker / Winger
Alfredo Di Stefano - Free Role - Marauder
Francisco Gento - Traditional Winger
Didier Drogba - Centre Forward

Style of play - Fluid transitions - Counter Attack
Defensive Line - Deep

This is one of the favourite sides I've ever built throughout drafting. Lots of little things all work together to make such a great side.

Starting from a defensive viewpoint, I've got the obvious weakness of a sheep in midfield which Prath doesn't have to worry about. I've compensated for that with a defensive fullback (Juanfran) on his side of the field, he's also paired in midfield with 2 players that could likely dominate any midfield even if left with the job themselves, (Schweinsteiger and Di Stefano) finally to cover for the sheep I've also got Figo as the harder working winger on that side to cover space and limit how much he gets exposed.

On the offensive side there are yet more small details that make the side tick perfectly.

It's well known that Di Stefano will drift all over the pitch to wherever he can influence it best. When he does there will be a big gap in the centre of my attack. Figo and Drogba will both play a big part in linking the attack when needed.

Drogba is regarded as one of the best strikers ever in the premier league and that's not down to his goal scoring alone. He's a big game player with excellent hold up play that will allow the attacks to be built higher up the park.

Figo goes down as one of the greatest right wingers of all time, again he's not a traditional player that will hug the touch line, but rather coming inside and linking up with players when needed to.

 

[green_smiley]

@prath92 @KM @P-Nut0712

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Quite even. PNut has better attack with AdS, but the sheep evens things out.

 

[prath92]

I think stiles is probably the best player to deal with AdS seeing how well he nullified a peak Eusebio twice (66 WC semi and 68 EC final)

We also have a way better defence. Vidic and Moore are better individually and as a pair to Ramos and Campbell.

Quite even. PNut has better attack with AdS, but the sheep evens things out.

disagree. In their prime, all 3 of our forwards have been the best/second best (kopa was runner up in 1958) player in the world. As good as drogba is, a prime Owen was more incredible and lethal. Ronaldinho is also probably being underrated as he was something no one has ever seen before or since in terms of creativity and flair. He is in no way inferior to Figo or Gento imo. Same with kopa.

 

[P-Nut]

I think stiles is probably the best player to deal with AdS seeing how well he nullified a peak Eusebio twice (66 WC semi and 68 EC final)

We also have a way better defence. Vidic and Moore are better individually and as a pair to Ramos and Campbell.



disagree. In their prime, all 3 of our forwards have been the best/second best (kopa was runner up in 1958) player in the world. As good as drogba is, a prime Owen was more incredible and lethal. Ronaldinho is also probably being underrated as he was something no one has ever seen before or since in terms of creativity and flair. He is in no way inferior to Figo or Gento imo. Same with kopa.

The thing that makes Di Stefano so tough to take out of a game is that he will literally roam anywhere. Is Stiles going to track him all the way up the pitch when he is collecting the ball off of my centre backs? Because if so that's leaving a massive gap where Drogba and Figo will then expose as I mentioned in my OP.

As for Campbell - Ramos Vs Moore - Vidic; it completely depends on what you want them to do. Both Campbell and Ramos are probably better equipped to deal with Owen than Vidic would have been.

If you take a look at the video below, just notice the amount of times he uses his pace to cover his defensive partner or recover after having the ball played behind him.



As for Ramos I don't really need to highlight his pace, and as for being on the same level as Vidic and Moore he's been a part of sides that have won 3 major international tournaments in a row and also captained not only the first side to retain the champions league, but to do it 3x in a row and counting.

 

[P-Nut]

I think stiles is probably the best player to deal with AdS seeing how well he nullified a peak Eusebio twice (66 WC semi and 68 EC final)

We also have a way better defence. Vidic and Moore are better individually and as a pair to Ramos and Campbell.



disagree. In their prime, all 3 of our forwards have been the best/second best (kopa was runner up in 1958) player in the world. As good as drogba is, a prime Owen was more incredible and lethal. Ronaldinho is also probably being underrated as he was something no one has ever seen before or since in terms of creativity and flair. He is in no way inferior to Figo or Gento imo. Same with kopa.

There is no way a front 4 of Ronaldinho, Rui Costa, Kopa and Owen can match up to Gento, Di Stefano, Figo and Drogba.

For me it's not about the level of the players, but rather the way in which they will mash together on the pitch.

 

[harms]

As for Ramos I don't really need to highlight his pace, and as for being on the same level as Vidic and Moore he's been captain of sides that have won 3 major international tournaments in a row

Nope.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Would have swapped Ramos and Campbell.

Way too many Ronaldinho embarrassing and destroying Ramos videos on Youtube.

Tough one to call, while Pnut's attack is obviously class, Marcelo and Zambrotta flanking Ronaldinho and Kopa is super tasty as well. But they need to contain Gento and Figo as well which is no cakewalk.

Schilcher I dont know how to judge, but Di Stefano and Bastian is as good as it gets to cover for him. Would have been significantly tilted towards Pnut if not for Schilcher. Not sure how much you could trust him to help with Dinho on that side as well. The guy can swing the game on his own.

 

[P-Nut]

Nope.

Ah yeah didn't actually check that one through, I'll edit the post.

 

[P-Nut]

Would have swapped Ramos and Campbell.

Way too many Ronaldinho embarrassing and destroying Ramos videos on Youtube.

Tough one to call, while Pnut's attack is obviously class, Marcelo and Zambrotta flanking Ronaldinho and Kopa is super tasty as well. But they need to contain Gento and Figo as well which is no cakewalk.

Schilcher I dont know how to judge, but Di Stefano and Bastian is as good as it gets to cover for him. Would have been significantly tilted towards Pnut if not for Schilcher. Not sure how much you could trust him to help with Dinho on that side as well. The guy can swing the game on his own.

Schilcher is a sheep, was always going to have to find someway of covering for him against a side with no sheep. Here he's about as well covered as you are going to get. Schweinsteiger and Di Stefano could easily run a midfield on their own, whilst Juanfran is probably the best defensive full back of the last 5 years.

 

[harms]

Way too many Ronaldinho embarrassing and destroying Ramos videos on Youtube.

That would be a young right back Ramos, right? Not that he has it in him to stop peak Ronaldinho in any version though.

I think stiles is probably the best player to deal with AdS seeing how well he nullified a peak Eusebio twice (66 WC semi and 68 EC final)

I'm not sure, and it's not like Eusebio and Di Stefano are similar players. Stiles is a great man-marker, but it would take much more to stop him.

 

[P-Nut]

@GodShaveTheQueen also for the Ramos - Ronaldinho comparison there is this sore video to watch.



Although Drogba doesn't score either of the goals, he gets the better of Vidic on both of the first 2 to play a massive part in them.

 

[Ecstatic]

Let me sell your sides

So, I would say 2 positive things for each side.

And at this stage, I still don't know for which team I will vote

 

[Ecstatic]

For P-nut, I'd say

1) AdS would be pleased to play with collective players
2) Gento would be great + proven duo gento/ads

(speed of the video upgraded obviously)



For Prath

1) Ronaldinho would be great in this context
2) the Alonso-Owen connection

 

[Moby]

Fancy Vidic to be in his element vs Drogba, poor guy gets blamed when getting unfavourable matchups against fast guys, but for once he is going to be absolutely dominant here and that should be quite critical.

 

[Himannv]

Fancy Vidic to be in his element vs Drogba, poor guy gets blamed when getting unfavourable matchups against fast guys, but for once he is going to be absolutely dominant here and that should be quite critical.

I feel Vidic is a bit underrated in drafts sometimes. I get that certain types of players pose problems for him, but on the whole he's a very good defender and he dominates in the air.

 

[P-Nut]

Fancy Vidic to be in his element vs Drogba, poor guy gets blamed when getting unfavourable matchups against fast guys, but for once he is going to be absolutely dominant here and that should be quite critical.

I feel Vidic is a bit underrated in drafts sometimes. I get that certain types of players pose problems for him, but on the whole he's a very good defender and he dominates in the air.

There is literally evidence a couple of posts up, where he gets completely dominated by Drogba physically. Now don't get me wrong, I don't expect it to happen every single time, but to say Vidic would be dominant is clearly wrong.

 

[Enigma_87]

I feel Vidic is a bit underrated in drafts sometimes. I get that certain types of players pose problems for him, but on the whole he's a very good defender and he dominates in the air.

Agreed. Swap Owen and Drogba and could be a major issue.

 

[2mufc0]

It's suicidal picking Ramos around here, he simply doesn't get any credit at all.

 

[P-Nut]

It's suicidal picking Ramos around here, he simply doesn't get any credit at all.

It's madness, you'd think he was a no mark in a side that never won anything. He's captain of the most successful modern era side and has been a massive massive part of those successes.

 

[Moby]

There is literally evidence a couple of posts up, where he gets completely dominated by Drogba physically. Now don't get me wrong, I don't expect it to happen every single time, but to say Vidic would be dominant is clearly wrong.

I haven't watched the video as I am at work, is that the Chelsea 3-0 during Vidic's first season?

I was alluding more to his peak incarnation especially during the 08-09 season when he was imperious in the air or on the ground apart from that horrid show vs Liverpool (have always blamed Fergie for that one, suicidal tactics playing such a high line vs peak Torres and Rio not covering Vidic as well). But in that season's form, I expect him to dominate Drogba here.

 

[P-Nut]

I haven't watched the video as I am at work, is that the Chelsea 3-0 during Vidic's first season?

I was alluding more to his peak incarnation especially during the 08-09 season when he was imperious in the air or on the ground apart from that horrid show vs Liverpool (have always blamed Fergie for that one, suicidal tactics playing such a high line vs peak Torres and Rio not covering Vidic as well). But in that season's form, I expect him to dominate Drogba here.

It's a 3 year peak though no? So that could still fall in the same timeframe.

 

[Gio]

Fancy Vidic to be in his element vs Drogba, poor guy gets blamed when getting unfavourable matchups against fast guys, but for once he is going to be absolutely dominant here and that should be quite critical.

Both players were absolutely dominant in their peak, so the head-to-head records should be pretty instructive here, whatever they are.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Voted for p-nut because Kopa never played as a rught forward.

Seriously though this is close, Ronaldinho will torment Juan Fran and Ramos but Drogba definitely Came out on top v vidic more often than not and pnut team is set up to get service in the air to him. Tough to separate but would back Di Stefano all day long to be the difference.

 

[harms]

It's a 3 year peak though no? So that could still fall in the same timeframe.

That would be probably 08-11? Don't think that his first season is in any way relevant here, considering the significant difference in his performances between those years.

 

[harms]

Voted for p-nut because Kopa never played as a rught forward.

He played as a right-sided inside-forward who was comfortable going out wide often enough, which is as close as you can get to the modern inverted winger.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

He played as a right-sided inside-forward who was comfortable going out wide often enough, which is as close as you can get to the modern inverted winger.

Check the typo in the write up

 

[P-Nut]

That would be probably 08-11? Don't think that his first season is in any way relevant here, considering the significant difference in his performances between those years.

Just over 5 minutes in then count? Despite being nowhere near his peak he is still too quick for Vidic and runs off of him.

You'll also see him being dealt with quite well by Ferdinand earlier in the clip.

Also words from the man himself...

He told Four Four Two: 'People say: "You had a difficult game against Torres", but it was just the one game. I went to head the ball but changed my mind and tried to pass to Edwin [van der Sar]. I misjudged the distance and Torres scored.

'Drogba was tougher. Torres always created a chance to score, but Drogba was on you for the full game.

'Drogba was physically the hardest; [Luis] Suarez and [Sergio] Aguero were the best.'

 

[harms]

Just over 5 minutes in then count? Despite being nowhere near his peak he is still too quick for Vidic and runs off of him.

You'll also see him being dealt with quite well by Ferdinand earlier in the clip.

Also words from the man himself...

Yeah, I’m not buying him stopping Drogba completely, he always looked threatening against us. Just saying that 05/06 is not representative at all

 

[P-Nut]

Yeah, I’m not buying him stopping Drogba completely, he always looked threatening against us. Just saying that 05/06 is not representative at all

Ah right yeah fair enough. It seems from the comments so far that Owen Vs Campbell and Ramos would be a bigger mismatch than Drogba Vs Vidic and Moore. For me that's completely wrong.

I've highlighted Campbell's pace above and Ramos' I feel doesn't need to be at all.

 

[P-Nut]

Whilst I'm here actually I don't think enough is being made of the midfield battle.

The original plan from Prath to stop Di Stefano was to put Stiles on him. With Stefano moving all over the pitch though that one won't work. Don't get me wrong, I believe Stiles would happily track him everywhere, but that leaves massive gaps for Drogba and Figo to drop into and that's when Praths team is in trouble.

The alternative is that Stiles holds his position and allows Stefano to drop, only picking him up when he moves forward. This raises even more issues though.

Say Stefano has now drifted deep wide right to pick up the ball. Is Stiles going to push to him as he advances or allow Marcelo to try to deal with him? We can pretty much discount Juanfran or Ronaldinho getting involved so you're either allowing a 2v1 of Figo and Stefano Vs Marcelo or looking at leaving a big game in the centre of the park.

Take the same issue on my left hand side and it is even more pronounced with Sandro occasionally adding to a mismatch in Gento Vs Zambrotta, never mind when Stefano drifts to that side as well.

 

[P-Nut]

Another video highlighting just what Drogba brings to this team.



Now for me the interesting part of the video isn't what he does up against the centre backs, we're all well aware of that side of his game.

However, if you take note of where he picks up the ball it's usually deeper and up against the DM of the opposing teams. And it's this exact type of movement that I'd want from him in this game, and what would cause nightmares for the opposition.

 

[Indnyc]

Voted @P-Nut0712

The impact of Di Stefano is massive here.. Stiles was great but it'll be an uphill battle for him

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Vidic

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Going with pnut for now. While I think Ronaldinho is set to have a monstrous game here, in the overall scheme of things, Gento/Figo seem to be invaluable against Prath's fullbacks, both from the attacking point and from the limiting opposition attacks point.

Wanted to hear from Prath before voting but I won't be online for long. Will check back before the poll closes if possible.

 

[Gio]

He played as a right-sided inside-forward who was comfortable going out wide often enough, which is as close as you can get to the modern inverted winger.

Yeah, but he's on record saying he preferred and was more natural playing through the middle.

 

[Gio]

Any more on Schilcher?

 

[MJJ]

Any more on Schilcher?

Schilcher is a wine produced solely in the Austrian region of Western Styria and Southern Burgenland, in the districts of Deutschlandsberg and Voitsberg, sharing a border with Slovenia and Carinthia to the south and west. The wine growing area is the smallest in Europe.

 

[P-Nut]

Any more on Schilcher?

He's a sheep, but there is a little bit about him on his Dutch wiki.

He was basically a substitute for the Ajax and won quite a bit with them.

He played a good few games for them on their run to 2 European cups though. Played the away leg of the semi against Benfica in 71/72 for example and both legs of the quarter final against Bayern the year afer, keeping his place for the home leg of the semi against Madrid.

He's basically defensively sound whilst offering nothing the other way. Being a sheep I've aimed to shield him as much as possible anyways.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I think stiles is probably the best player to deal with AdS seeing how well he nullified a peak Eusebio twice (66 WC semi and 68 EC final)

66 yes, 68 no. In the European Cup Final, he kicked the crap out of him. Eusebio's problem was getting up (with the occasional moan to the ref) and doing the same thing... Di Stefano was smarter, he'd wander and take Stiles on a magical mystery tour.

We also have a way better defence. Vidic and Moore are better individually and as a pair to Ramos and Campbell. Probably.

disagree. In their prime, all 3 of our forwards have been the best/second best (kopa was runner up in 1958) player in the world. As good as drogba is, a prime Owen was more incredible and lethal. Not for me and hugely different. Depends on defence. Think both would have a handful here.

Ronaldinho is also probably being underrated as he was something no one has ever seen before or since in terms of creativity and flair. He is in no way inferior to Figo or Gento imo. Same with kopa. Not sure who's underrating him (I thought he was wonderful personally)... wouldn't say he was inferior, just different.

Two good teams