Sheep Draft Q/F - P-nut vs. Don Alfredo

Who would win with all players at their peaks?


  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Skizzo

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TEAM P-NUT
Playing style

I intend to play quick direct football with a deep defensive line. The team is built on a solid defensive structure. Juanfran is the best defensive fullback of the modern era, Montero a complete no nonsense defender takes on Godins role in that Atletico side, Campbell is a more than capable partner, with a bit of speed to cover when the line gets broken, and finally Sandro is up there with the best left backs of this era.

Guti, Schweinsteiger and Di Stefano* make for a formidable midfield trio both on and off the ball. Schweinsteiger will play in his deeper role that he adopted later in his career and dictate play as necessary.

* - Di Stefano doesn't really have a set position, but I want him to start a little bit deeper in order to help run the game when we've got the ball.

The front 3 have a bit of everything, Gento is an excellent traditional winger, supplying ammo for the attackers. Figo a more playmaking winger to aid with the build up. Drogba as a target man to help hold onto the ball when we have it and build attacks further up the pitch.

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vs.
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Vs.

TEAM DON
I am very proud to have assembled this side because it is a remake of Klopp’s Dortmund, for many neutral observers the most exciting team of this decade.

borussia-dortmund-starting-lineup-madrid.jpg

They dominated German football for 2 years and just fell short in the CL final against Heynckes‘ Treble Bayern. Bayern (and other clubs) picked them off afterwards so they couldn’t possibly repeat their success. Still I loved to watch them play and I wanted to give it a go to build an even better version because they are one of the few teams in history who are both uber-defensive and uber-attacking.

The hardest part to get right was to find suitable upgrades for the playmakers, because if you don’t have those, you lose yourself in endless pressing battles like Klopp did at the end of his tenure. I like to think that I did really well in upgrading Götze and Gundogan, in fact the midfield combination of Iniesta and Modric is my favourite part of the team. Iniesta is a hard working needle player, specialist at passing, dribbling in tight spaces and through balls to set up the attackers. Modric is the perfect upgrade to Gundogan in my book, you can’t find another silky playmaker with the same work rate and defensive quality that he possesses.

Between Vidal, Modric and Iniesta I should have enough work rate to combat any midfield in the world and we also have to take into account that every single one of my players is defending and preventing attacks from the get-go, which means that the requirements regarding the midfield are much different compared to your usual draft side, who just chucks a Makelele behind 5 Galacticos to do all the dirty work.

Replicating Klopp’s Dortmund meant that I had to settle for a 4231 and look out for 2 hard-working and skilful wide players. I think I found 2 good ones, Bruno Conti is the perfect combination of grit and creativity from a wide midfield position and Marco Reus is proven to be one of the best attackers in Europe in this system.

I am particularly excited about my newly formed defence. The hard-tackling Roberto Rosato comes in and replicates the Subotic role to a tee while Krol is my favourite choice to play the Hummels role. A classic sweeper with great individual defensive quality and experience in pushing up and bringing the ball out of defence, like Hummels did many times and what gave a huge advantage at dominating the match. Demyanenko and Bezsonov are not the shiniest names, but in this system they are absolute gold. Two physical specimen who thrived in pressing tactics like few other fullbacks in history did, and this should push them above being merely some names on the teamsheet, but being actual match-winners through their quality both in offence and defence, not limited to individual battles vs the wingers but in their influence all over the pitch. We see it in modern football day to day that having great fullbacks can make all the difference and Klopp knows that, if you see how Robertson is regularly the deciding factor on the pitch.

Jorge Campos is in in goal, one of the best sweeper keepers ever and one of the greatest keepers of his generation. Genuinely outstanding on the line and very good nonetheless when coming out of his goal because of his athletic attributes and his experience of playing as a full-time striker.
 
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Sure you want Figo down the wing getting crosses into Drogba?

Reus face Juanfran yet? If so what's his record like?
 
Sure you want Figo down the wing getting crosses into Drogba?

Reus face Juanfran yet? If so what's his record like?

They both played in the 2 CL matches this season, but it was not Reus vs Juanfran because Reus is playing as a number 10 / Second Striker under Favre.

I will add that Reus didn't score in those matches. Couldn't find any other matches.
 
@Don Alfredo love the Rosato pick.. Not picked here as often as he should

@P-Nut0712 Guti is a very interesting pick and glad to see Drogba continued to be played even at this stage

I like both teams a lot so will read a bit more discussions before voting
 
Di Stefano will have a field day against that midfield which lacks man markers or too much defensive prowess. On the other hand Batigol will have one too against that CB pairing which is uninspiring.

No clue what that Figo arrow does when you already have 3 ball players in the middle and no overlapping wing back.

While Pnut does have the better star power, Don has the better overall side.
 
I like the midfield and attack in team @P-Nut0712 but I don't think all that highly of that defense.

@Don Alfredo has a better team overall IMO, although I don't rate Vidal in this role at this stage of the draft.

How is Vidal's quality a problem while Guti is not questioned? What has Guti done to feature in an All-Time Draft at this stage, against 3 of the greatest midfielders of their generation?

Di Stefano will have a field day against that midfield which lacks man markers or too much defensive prowess. On the other hand Batigol will have one too against that CB pairing which is uninspiring.

No clue what that Figo arrow does when you already have 3 ball players in the middle and no overlapping wing back.

While Pnut does have the better star power, Don has the better overall side.

I don't see Di Stefano working well here at all. The usual argument is "oh you didn't put a man-marker against him" but he plays nothing like a conventional number 10 sitting in the hole, so it doesn't even make sense to have one there. Di Stefano is a player with a wide range of action, doing his shenanigans all over the pitch. In that regard, having Vidal on the pitch is great because he can battle him all over the pitch, instead of some other DM who is uncomfortable when he has to follow Di Stefano when he drops deeper.

The midfield composition is less than optimal here. With Schweinsteiger, Guti and Di Stefano there are 3 playmakers, plus Figo is coming inside as well to do some playmaking. How is that getting the best out of Di Stefano, who wants to be the solely focal point of his team and always have the ball, while all the others work for him and do the running?

Secondly, I think a pressing side is the worst possible opponent for any Di Stefano side. He likes to be in a match of All-Time-Greats, where everyone has his usual role and none of the forwards is expected to contribute anything in other phases. None of this applies here, instead I have 3 midfielders who contribute in all phases, 2 hard working wingers and Batigol who puts in his fair share of work as well. Suddenly Di Stefano is not the +1 difference on the pitch when he decides to drop into different zones because my players are swarming out like bees and working collectively to win the ball back.

I also have Krol in the center to watch out for Di Stefano, because despite his starting position here, he will attack the box quite often and wants to score some goals and between Vidal and Krol I have a really good chance to limit his attacking output.
 
For the record, I think the lack of a ball-winner is much more apparent in P-Nut's midfield due to the lack of pressing tactics. Schweinsteiger is a good player, but asking him to do all the heavy lifting is not the role he excelled in for the majority of his career and he will have massive problems at stopping Iniesta and Modric to find the holes in the defence time and time again with their dribblings and passes.

Bastian's record vs Iniesta

3 wins 4 losses

Bastian's record vs Modric

0 wins 3 losses

The majority of the time, those two got the better of him and dominated proceedings.
 
Guti's inclusion is a bit weird. I don't think that he gives this team anything that Schweiny/Di Stefano/Figo don't provide already. Put a generic workhorse here so that Di Stefano wouldn't have to drop deep to maintain the balance — but rather did it when he felt like it.
 
Neither team look to have really reinforced.

Like Rosato, but don't think he that much of an upgrade of Carvalho. Very underrated player and was the best CB both at Chelsea and Real when he played. Tacking, ariel ability, intelligence, ball skills he had it all! Vidal-Modric is better with a DM or a back 5 as I don't really rate their defensive presence. Mascherano should have been on the pitch to led defensive stability.

And Guti, ffs. You may as well have played Schilcher there still. Just took a look and you had the likes of Deschamps, Paulo Sousa, Dino Baggio, Iron Lung Wimmer etc available and you pick Guti...unbelievable!

Batigol has 6 goals in 17 games vs Montero which is not bad at all. I expect AdS to win this game for P-Nut as of now.
 
Just don’t see the need for arrows on p-nuts team :lol:
 
Like Rosato, but don't think he that much of an upgrade of Carvalho. Very underrated player and was the best CB both at Chelsea and Real when he played. Tacking, ariel ability, intelligence, ball skills he had it all! Vidal-Modric is better with a DM or a back 5 as I don't really rate their defensive presence. Mascherano should have been on the pitch to led defensive stability.

Rosato is the upgrade on Kompany, Krol is the upgrade on Carvalho. I think Carvalho lacks a bit of physicality to play the Subotic role.

I don't get the insistence to have a DM behind Vidal-Modric. Vidal is clearly very defensively sound and one of the most effective tacklers of this generation, while Modric's defensive game is outstanding for a playmaker (stamina, tackling ability, positioning) and I have said before that he is much better in those regards than most playmakers in history. He looks weak because of his small stature, but his nimbleness and stamina allow him to win many balls, even late in the game while others start to get lazy.

On top of that, you have Iniesta in midfield which makes it 3 players doing off-the ball work there and you have the pressing tactics to prevent P-Nut from starting attacks. How is he getting the ball at his attackers? Juanfran, Montero, Campbell are certainly not the type of players to play it out from the back. Schweinsteiger would have to drop in between the CBs to have any kind of chance against my press, but even then he has very little options to play into in midfield because you can't rely on Di Stefano always dropping deeper and Guti is not of the required quality demanded here.
 
Sorry everyone I've been asleep until now. I'll try to address quite a few of the comments in one go.....

THE FIGO ARROW

There more as an aid of what can happen when ADS goes walkabout. Just because he's dropped deep doesn't mean I haven't got a creative force in the hole he's created by dragging players with him. Now most of the time Figo will obviously be wide right, but when the space is there to be exploited he's more than capable of going central to take advantage of it.

THE DEFENSIVE COMPOSITION

@Himannv the defense is made up to sit in and soak up pressure. It's loosely based on the Atletico defence. Juanfran in his usual position, Montero as a complete no nonsense defender taking Godins place, Campbell the pacier partner takes Giminez' place as an obvious upgrade, and finally Sandro as the more balanced of the full backs in Felipe Luis place.

THE GUTI INCLUSION

I agree at first glance this looks like a strange inclusion, however he has got a bit of everything that I wanted. His passing range is insane, which when playing counter attacking football can be crucial. I don't want to have to wait the extra 2 or 3 seconds to spring forward by having to cycle to ball to a better passer. Every single one of my midfielders is capable of splitting open the defence. He's also got the work rate that some of you have spoken about. Below is the closest I can find to an all touch video. It's in a game his side loses 2-0 and he only comes on around the 50 minute mark, but take note of the positions he picks the ball up in and the impact he has on the game.



 
I think Carvalho lacks a bit of physicality to play the Subotic role.

I don't get the insistence to have a DM behind Vidal-Modric. Vidal is clearly very defensively sound and one of the most effective tacklers of this generation, while Modric's defensive game is outstanding for a playmaker (stamina, tackling ability, positioning) and I have said before that he is much better in those regards than most playmakers in history. He looks weak because of his small stature, but his nimbleness and stamina allow him to win many balls, even late in the game while others start to get lazy.

Earlier Carvalho maybe. He bulked up during his Chelsea stint and was a complete defender thereafter.

Both Vidal and Modric are good midfielders who have defensive workrate...which is different from being a defensive midfielder. They'd have been fine against most opposition, but a specialist is needed against AdS.

Perhaps I voted too soon. Let me think about this again.
 
Rosato is the upgrade on Kompany, Krol is the upgrade on Carvalho. I think Carvalho lacks a bit of physicality to play the Subotic role.

I don't get the insistence to have a DM behind Vidal-Modric. Vidal is clearly very defensively sound and one of the most effective tacklers of this generation, while Modric's defensive game is outstanding for a playmaker (stamina, tackling ability, positioning) and I have said before that he is much better in those regards than most playmakers in history. He looks weak because of his small stature, but his nimbleness and stamina allow him to win many balls, even late in the game while others start to get lazy.

On top of that, you have Iniesta in midfield which makes it 3 players doing off-the ball work there and you have the pressing tactics to prevent P-Nut from starting attacks. How is he getting the ball at his attackers? Juanfran, Montero, Campbell are certainly not the type of players to play it out from the back. Schweinsteiger would have to drop in between the CBs to have any kind of chance against my press, but even then he has very little options to play into in midfield because you can't rely on Di Stefano always dropping deeper and Guti is not of the required quality demanded here.

I'm employing a counter attacking style, so unless you are using the pep/Klopp style of press it should be quite simple to play out really.

As for Guti not being of the required standard, he must surely be one of the most underrated players of all time. He played in a team of legends with much better international careers than him which seems to have hurt his legacy, but on his day he was a ridiculous player!
 
I'm employing a counter attacking style, so unless you are using the pep/Klopp style of press it should be quite simple to play out really.

Yes, it's right there in the OP that I have modeled my side on Borussia Dortmund under Klopp and my players are great fits for his pressing style:)

As for Guti not being of the required standard, he must surely be one of the most underrated players of all time. He played in a team of legends with much better international careers than him which seems to have hurt his legacy, but on his day he was a ridiculous player!

It makes sense that he got overshadowed by Zidane during Real's galactico phase, but even after Zidane retired he never hit the heights in midfield that other midfielders of his generation did and his international career is also very poor. How come that he only has 13 caps? Spain wasn't even that great in the early 2000s, yet Guti couldn't make the side.
 
Yes, it's right there in the OP that I have modeled my side on Borussia Dortmund under Klopp and my players are great fits for his pressing style:)



It makes sense that he got overshadowed by Zidane during Real's galactico phase, but even after Zidane retired he never hit the heights in midfield that other midfielders of his generation did and his international career is also very poor. How come that he only has 13 caps? Spain wasn't even that great in the early 2000s, yet Guti couldn't make the side.

Then it's a simple target man release with runners off of him to bypass the press. It might not be as pretty, but it's certainly just as effective.

He's not an attacking midfielder like Zidane. Transfermarkt have him as a central midfielder, much like he's being used here. The through balls for goals have convinced people that he constantly played higher up the pitch in the same areas as Zidane, whereas in reality he was more often found directing attacks from deeper positions due to the galactico attack of Real.
 
Is it true that guti dated a transsexual for two years before he found out?
 
He's not an attacking midfielder like Zidane. Transfermarkt have him as a central midfielder, much like he's being used here. The through balls for goals have convinced people that he constantly played higher up the pitch in the same areas as Zidane, whereas in reality he was more often found directing attacks from deeper positions due to the galactico attack of Real.
Nah, he was an attacking midfielder getting shoehorned in deeper positions because he wasn't able to outperform the likes of Zidane (not an easy task that). His best seasons were after Zidane had retired, but that didn't last long as the new era was just around the corner.
 


Managed to find another all touch video of Guti, once again note his positioning and effect he has on the game with his insane range and disguised passing.
 
Nah, he was an attacking midfielder getting shoehorned in deeper positions because he wasn't able to outperform the likes of Zidane (not an easy task that). His best seasons were after Zidane had retired.

He was moved all over the place.

When Morientes was injured he was moved to striker, only to be replaced by Ronaldo.

When he was developing as an attacking midfielder, he was replaced by Zidane.

When he was playing on the wing he was replaced by Beckham.

Now whilst he was consistently replaced, the caliber of those 3 players make it no suprise. However, the interesting part is that he had the skills to make all those positions work. A bit like a jack of all trades, master of none, he will fit perfectly into the side as an addition and not the main man in any sense. Here he's free to spray passes around when needed, I've no worries over his workrate and positioning sense, and the videos even highlight how press resistant he is, which when playing against a Klopp side is essential.
 
Guti was never a regular started for Real. Most of his appearances were as sub on iirc.

Probably the worst reinforcement pick in Draft history. :p



Why would you want such a not influential player as your pick? Surely a specialist CM/DM would be better for you?

Not really I wanted a 2 way contributer and also like I said before someone with an exceptional passing range, whilst being press resistant. It allows me to start counter attacks quicker no matter which of my midfielders get the ball. He is literally perfect for this exact match up
 
Personally I've never been that sold on the ability/tendency of Di Stefano (or Cruyff, Messi or anyone else of that ilk) to kickstart moves from deep. Especially in a draft context where there are worldies all over the park who are perfectly capable of getting the play going. In this game he looks potentially devastating slipping in behind Modric/Vidal and plundering goals from there. The last thing you want is him farting around in defence.

Di Stefano will have a field day against that midfield which lacks man markers or too much defensive prowess.

No clue what that Figo arrow does when you already have 3 ball players in the middle and no overlapping wing back.
Agree with this.

It makes sense that he got overshadowed by Zidane during Real's galactico phase, but even after Zidane retired he never hit the heights in midfield that other midfielders of his generation did and his international career is also very poor. How come that he only has 13 caps? Spain wasn't even that great in the early 2000s, yet Guti couldn't make the side.
To be fair they were always strong in midfield. He'd mostly have been competing with the likes of Mendieta, Baraja, Valeron and Raul around that time, all of whom were far better players.
 
Neither team look to have really reinforced.

Like Rosato, but don't think he that much of an upgrade of Carvalho. Very underrated player and was the best CB both at Chelsea and Real when he played. Tacking, ariel ability, intelligence, ball skills he had it all! Vidal-Modric is better with a DM or a back 5 as I don't really rate their defensive presence. Mascherano should have been on the pitch to led defensive stability.

And Guti, ffs. You may as well have played Schilcher there still. Just took a look and you had the likes of Deschamps, Paulo Sousa, Dino Baggio, Iron Lung Wimmer etc available and you pick Guti...unbelievable!

Batigol has 6 goals in 17 games vs Montero which is not bad at all. I expect AdS to win this game for P-Nut as of now.

I agree that P-Nut's Guti pick is odd and I think that side would definitely be better with a specialist DM for sure. Di Stefano would have benefited from the Mascherano/Deschamps suggestions.

But don't agree on Don's side. For a Dortmund pressing type side, Vidal is perfect for that role really with his early training and role under Bielsa's system for Chile, which was maintained under the managers after Bielsa. I like that midfield's balance for the type of tactic they are running.
 
I agree that P-Nut's Guti pick is odd and I think that side would definitely be better with a specialist DM for sure. Di Stefano would have benefited from the Mascherano/Deschamps suggestions.

But don't agree on Don's side. For a Dortmund pressing type side, Vidal is perfect for that role really with his early training and role under Bielsa's system for Chile, which was maintained under the managers after Bielsa. I like that midfield's balance for the type of tactic they are running.

An additional DM adds nothing in a deep block tactic. Schweinsteiger is more than capable of cutting off space between narrow lines.

However, Guti adds an ability to quickly move from attack to defence. Again please take a look at the video below, it's only 5 minutes but highlights a lot of things that will be essential in this match up against a pressing opposition. There are shots of him beating the press, picking the ball up from deep and playing defence splitting through balls that Scholes would be proud of. (I'm not saying he's as good as Scholes)

 
Ok, this is personal perference as I really like Guti and his inclusion in this stage. The lazy bastard had it all.

Really hard to seperate, went for P-nut as I'm not so solved on Iniesta in that role.

Will watch further discussion open-minded (meaning: open for late PM)
 
Let me introduce you to the best player in Bundesliga, Marco Reus:drool:



His ridiculous shooting technique is just one aspect of his game, he is pretty much the complete attacker: goalscoring, assisting, crossing, passing, playmaking, pace, agility, acceleration, dribbling, free kicks, penalties, he has it all.

His career is very much low profile because he was injured for the 2014 WC and the 2016 Euros. He was finally fit for the 2018 WC and had 1 goal and 1 assist in 3 matches, but his teammates let him down.

He also made some unusual career choices, most great German players end up at Bayern at some point and he had several chances to make the move, but he decided to stay loyal to his boyhood club. This means that his trophy collection is rather small, while all the other Germans who went the easy way racked up title after title at a much richer club like Bayern/City/Real/Barca etc.

If we only look at his performances, he has to go down as the best German attacker of this decade and that is a big feat in itself because Germany won 2 international trophies and German Clubs had 4 CL final appearances since 2010.

Some would argue he is hitting his peak right now, playing as a talisman in the middle under Favre. He stands at 13 goals and 9 assists so far, which is better than Cristiano Ronaldo and every player from the Premier League this season.

I would consider his peak seasons as 2012-2014:

Season 11/12: 21 goals 14 assists
Season 12/13: 19 goals 16 assists
Season 13/14: 23 goals 23 assists

He has 5 consecutive outings in the Bundesliga Team of the Season, 2 Bundesliga Player of the Season awards and won the award "Footballer of the Year" in Germany in 2012, which is the most prestigious individual award in Germany. Everyone wants to win it and it is really hard to get because you are not only competing with all the players from Bundesliga, but also with all the German players playing in foreign leagues and those are usually very popular among journalists, especially those at Real/Barca and those playing in the PL.

Some will say "oh that is only Bundesliga", but Bundesliga was one of the strongest league in the world at the beginning of this decade (see CL results, Germany's success on the international stage) and it had some of the finest managers in the world to go against each other. Klopp, Heynckes/Guardiola/Ancelotti, Tuchel, Favre, those guys are widely celebrated today as some of the best managers in the world, but they already were fantastic while coaching in Bundesliga.

To argue why Reus has to be considered one of the greatest wingers of this generation, I will show you how he destroyed the most dominant team of this decade, again and again. They just couldn't stop him:drool:

 
Ok, this is personal perference as I really like Guti and his inclusion in this stage. The lazy bastard had it all.

Really hard to seperate, went for P-nut as I'm not so solved on Iniesta in that role.

Will watch further discussion open-minded (meaning: open for late PM)

Physiocrat also posed that question about Iniesta and I answered it during my last match

I get why you say that, but he doesn‘t need to be a very direct player here, he needs to emulate Mario Götze‘s role, who was very different to all the other players on the pitch in his playing style. He always seemed to think on a different wavelength and I can see similarities to Iniesta as CAM for Spain 2012, where he was not the controlling midfielder (there were 3 of those in Xavi, Busquets and Alonso), but he was the incisive one who dribbled between the lines and made things happen. He was by far the best player in that tournament and without him, it would have been very boring.

Götze and Gündogan were the two fish out of water in Klopp‘s system because they didn‘t fit into the ideal of pace and power. They seemed much more like Pep players and ironically, both have been signed by Pep later and Götze has been likened to Messi and Iniesta, two of the most Barca players ever.

The combination of those two silky playmakers with the rest of the Klopp dish was what made the team that special and gave it a balance which Klopp is yet to find at Liverpool. The Gegenpressing system was the defensive anchor and could produce chances for the team, but to win consistently in the league and beat elite defences in europe, you needed those two masterminds to hold on to the ball and play the killer pass in the right moment.

I am very happy about Iniesta and Modric taking the speed out of certain situations because many opponents would park the bus in fear of counter attacks, this is where those two can shine big time and unlock any defence with a killer pass / dribbling.

I still see them playing a very effective role at counter attacking, Iniesta has been very good at putting it onto a plate for the MSN trio under Enrique, despite him being past his peak already.
 
Ok, this is personal perference as I really like Guti and his inclusion in this stage. The lazy bastard had it all.

Really hard to seperate, went for P-nut as I'm not so solved on Iniesta in that role.

Will watch further discussion open-minded (meaning: open for late PM)

I am struggling to get across just what a player he could be to be honest. I accept he didn't do it every game and achieve a level of consistency to put him amongst the draft regulars, however the talent in those boots was immense. On his day he could turn a game on its head!
 
Physiocrat also posed that question about Iniesta and I answered it during my last match

Thanks Don.

I am struggling to get across just what a player he could be to be honest. I accept he didn't do it every game and achieve a level of consistency to put him amongst the draft regulars, however the talent in those boots was immense. On his day he could turn a game on its head!

Lazy bastard, Savicevic type. If he shows up he can turn the game upside down. Problem is will he be on his best?

@harms point is pretty valid though. Beside Di Stefano you would ideally want a more consistent midfielder with a bit more workrate. Tough one.
 
Let me introduce you to the best player in Bundesliga, Marco Reus:drool:

He's up against the greatest defensive full back of the modern game in this game though. You also state in that post that he is just entering his peak this season, in a different to position to the one you are using him in and quote his numbers, then go on to say you're using 2012 - 2014 as his peak, so his current numbers have zero impact on the game.

In a 1v1 Vs Juanfran I'd back Juanfran more often than not. It's hard to do a comparison due to the only time Reus went up against him he played central, however when comparing to other similiar players it makes for favourable players in Juanfrans favour.

Alexis Sanchez - 9 games - 2 goals
Eden Hazard - 3 games - 0 goals
Franck Ribery - 4 games - 0 goals

3 players I'd say are of a comparable level to Reus, that enjoyed little to no success against him.
 
Lazy bastard, Savicevic type. If he shows up he can turn the game upside down. Problem is will he be on his best?

@harms point is pretty valid though. Beside Di Stefano you would ideally want a more consistent midfielder with a bit more workrate. Tough one.

Yeah I'd agree with Harms if I wanted to take control of the game. However, my whole set up is built on sitting deep and springing counter attacks. Schweinsteiger has no problem cutting off the space between narrow lines. Guti adds the luxury of all 3 players being comfortable on the ball to aid the speed of those counters from any single midfielder.
 
There is so much that I don't understand about this Guti thing:confused:

Why would you want a lazy playmaker in a counter attacking side? Simeone would have none of that, he needs players with "cojones"

Why would you need a lazy playmaker in a side with Schweinsteiger and Di Stefano (and Figo)?

Who is doing the heavy lifting in P-Nut's midfield? Is it only Schweinsteiger having to defend against all three of my fantastic midfielders in Iniesta, Modric and Vidal? He is not a DM and that was not the role he had his best performances in (that was in a double pivot next to Martinez).

Who is protecting the fullbacks against double-downs from Reus/Demyanenko and Conti/Beszonov, while Schweinsteiger has to look out for the midfield?

Why does Guti only have 13 caps for Spain?

If he is much inferior to Mendieta, Baraja, Valeron and Raul (good players, but not exactly GOATs), what is he doing in an All-Time Draft?
 
He's up against the greatest defensive full back of the modern game in this game though.

I'd take any comment like that on a defender from this Atletico team with a pinch of salt. The defensive structure and tactics are the champion there. I am not calling him bad, but best defensive fullback of the modern game is a bit of stretch.
 
I'd take any comment like that on a defender from this Atletico team with a pinch of salt. The defensive structure and tactics are the champion there. I am not calling him bad, but best defensive fullback of the modern game is a bit of stretch.

Who is better than him though? Obviously the set up plays a massive part, but you can't really succeed as a defensive full back in a side not set up that way.