It is, because given the timeline he played more as a side midfielder even than he did as a center back.
Serie A 90's Draft Round 1 - Edgar Allan Pillow vs Antohan
- Thread starter 2mufc0
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Sorry mate, but I'm not having your "reckonings" (be it on this or the midfielders on display) when you base it on a single wiki line referring to someone as a wingback.
You really should have got a proper CB and played Pessotto on the left. There were some decent ones still knocking about at the end (far better than Pessotto).
I actually found it all very odd and assumed you were playing Tassotti as CB as Pessotto was quite clearly your LB, which made Pancaro your defensive RB behind Donadoni.
That defence will get destroyed, there's no two ways about it.
I thought about that at length. If anything because I wanted the pictures to match them since few CBs could expertly handle MvB (in theory and reality).
On the one hand, if you looked at the front two, Brolin belongs on the right. He favoured that side, although he wasn't limited to it. That would have left Kohler with MvB.
But then, with Donadoni right surely EAP would want to get Brolin out of the way and doing something on the left to balance things out. That would leave them swapped around so it would be better to have Kohler-Cruz-Sensini.
I toyed with that for a while and then went back to basics: players aren't static, they don't stay each on one side, let alone if the CBs have them in their pockets.
Yes, it would get more kudos but best thing I could do was play the strongest LWB available, and the best defensive trio at hand. Since Sinisa can be nothing but LCB that settled the rest. Kohler-Cruz-Sensini would be great too, but if we are unsure if Pessotto was a CB I don't have high hopes for poor André Cruz.
I haven't and won't dispute the individual quality of the front two. However, they aren't a proven pair nor did they ever jointly score 30 Serie A goals in a season. In fact, as far as goals are concerned you could say the same about dependency on Marco.
In any case, it must be assessed relative to what you face. They face Kohler, Sensini and Mihajlovic, while my boys face Signorini and Pessotto.
Same holds for the midfield. Ambrosini was featuring for Italy at the 2000 Olympics, while in 1990 Alemão had two World Cups under his belt. Stankovic was a sub for Lazio in 99-00, while Crippa (along with Dino Baggio) bossed Parma's midfield for half a decade.
Men against boys.
Just for your enjoyment:
Went for antohan in the end. MvB/Brölin/Donadoni is a fantastic attack but what the heck is happening at the back? And, to be fair, anto's defence is quite impressive as well
Italian football and, by extension, Serie A in the 90s (particularly the early 90s with two points for a win) was built on the logic that if you don't concede you can't lose.
It's not like I set up to nick one, but I've certainly respected that premise. Edgar has gone the other way round with the frontline expected to deliver when its porous platform has muddy feet.
BTW, do yourself a favour and watch that Rui Costa clip. He was sensational. Also, keep in mind an U23 Ambrosini is meant to control his influence.
Hilarious stuff.
Hilarious stuff.
Pessotto is comfortable at CB. And Evani is a complete left midfielder even having played left back. It's defensively strong and good attacking outlet flank.
Maybe susceptible against a winger but not against this opposition.
Come on lads, let's boil this down to basics....
The best flank of this draft is my right wing. Tassotti, Donadoni, Stankovic and Van Basten. Add in Brolin in supporting role and it's sufficient to win this match. Brolin may be no Gullit, but his peak was short but sweet. He can drop between the lines, move wide to stretch play and create for Van Basten plus score on his own.
It's not surprising that most don't envision my left flank working the way I see it in my mind, but then it happens way too often in these drafts
but still point being, despite whatever concerns you may have....my opponent does not have the players to take advantage. Herrera and Alemao will not be a threat and Rui Costa will not drift far wide to stretch the play.
@harms @Enigma_87 just some thoughts to win back your votes. With no wingers or wide players and just Herrera alone will never trouble Pessotto and Pancaro. With Evani also having operated as left back, it's super solid defensively. The dynamics could have been better...but it's nowhere enough to make a difference in this match!
The best flank of this draft is my right wing. Tassotti, Donadoni, Stankovic and Van Basten. Add in Brolin in supporting role and it's sufficient to win this match. Brolin may be no Gullit, but his peak was short but sweet. He can drop between the lines, move wide to stretch play and create for Van Basten plus score on his own.
It's not surprising that most don't envision my left flank working the way I see it in my mind, but then it happens way too often in these drafts
but still point being, despite whatever concerns you may have....my opponent does not have the players to take advantage. Herrera and Alemao will not be a threat and Rui Costa will not drift far wide to stretch the play.@harms @Enigma_87 just some thoughts to win back your votes. With no wingers or wide players and just Herrera alone will never trouble Pessotto and Pancaro. With Evani also having operated as left back, it's super solid defensively. The dynamics could have been better...but it's nowhere enough to make a difference in this match!
@Gio re above post for your concerns.
Come on lads. Tie ain't good for me! 
Well, I'm fully aware that with this number of votes every bump attracts another scanvote against me, but it would be a disservice to José Herrera to hand him such a fecked up draft debut.
Similar to Crippa and Alemão, it is very hard to find footage that isn't just about goals. Even then, Sensini and Crippa scoring to win the UEFA Cup final against Milan doesn't count. Shame, as UEFA put it: "Nevio Scala's side was inspired by the attacking skills of Gianfranco Zola, Tomas Brolin, and Faustino Asprilla but in a tight tie it was the tough-tackling midfielder Massimo Crippa who would win it for Parma".
I guess it's my fault for not picking household names who were barely out of their footballing nappies. I should have factored in that there was no Goooolazo! until later, let alone a UEFA Champions League.
This is from the game that got Herrera his move to Cagliari. Five years later, after playing more than 30 games a season for Cagliari, he was still starting for Uruguay but as the ball-playing CB organising the defensive line that won the 1995 Copa América. But yeah, he is some nobody who may as well not be on the pitch ahead of players which barely get over the 40 appearances mark.
Easily getting past Brehme (no, not Pancaro the non-wingback, peak Brehme) and crossing for Aguilera to score the opener.
Covers the AWOL CB and knocks peak Jurgen feckin' Klinsmann off his stride.
Nice dummy run at the start of the move for the second goal
Another dangerous cross, cleared for a corner that results in the third goal.
Good work patrolling the flank
Acting like a boss against Rudi Völler now
Similar to Crippa and Alemão, it is very hard to find footage that isn't just about goals. Even then, Sensini and Crippa scoring to win the UEFA Cup final against Milan doesn't count. Shame, as UEFA put it: "Nevio Scala's side was inspired by the attacking skills of Gianfranco Zola, Tomas Brolin, and Faustino Asprilla but in a tight tie it was the tough-tackling midfielder Massimo Crippa who would win it for Parma".
I guess it's my fault for not picking household names who were barely out of their footballing nappies. I should have factored in that there was no Goooolazo! until later, let alone a UEFA Champions League.
This is from the game that got Herrera his move to Cagliari. Five years later, after playing more than 30 games a season for Cagliari, he was still starting for Uruguay but as the ball-playing CB organising the defensive line that won the 1995 Copa América. But yeah, he is some nobody who may as well not be on the pitch ahead of players which barely get over the 40 appearances mark.
Easily getting past Brehme (no, not Pancaro the non-wingback, peak Brehme) and crossing for Aguilera to score the opener.
Covers the AWOL CB and knocks peak Jurgen feckin' Klinsmann off his stride.
Nice dummy run at the start of the move for the second goal
Another dangerous cross, cleared for a corner that results in the third goal.
Good work patrolling the flank
Acting like a boss against Rudi Völler now
It can't be helped. Drafts are a delicate balance between shiny names, functional workhorses and odd gen you'd like to highlight, between a functional team vs your inner muppet.
Great turn out though. Current day Serie A stadiums would be jealous.
I think a key difference is in players capable of changing the game on their own. I believe, Van Basten, Brolin, Donadoni and Stankovic are all capable of that on their prime.
It's not just the players, but the overall attack and different avenues that are available that keeps the defence guessing.
I do believe I have the advantage here.
It's not just the players, but the overall attack and different avenues that are available that keeps the defence guessing.
I do believe I have the advantage here.
I think the right flank is excellent. But as for the midfield, I'm not convinced Ambrosini, and a young one at that, has the the nous to shut out Rui Costa, whereas Alemao and Crippa form a far more robust and astute platform to close down Brolin and an off-peak Stankovic. There's a natural balance in @antohan's attack when you consider that Rui Costa was never much of a goalscorer and was always about setting up others, and should be in his element here feeding a punchy and proven strike partnership. And I thought Skuhravy was quality in the early 1990s, he should have gone earlier in the picking order.
Before any of that matters, the key difference is your defensive setup is a complete shambles. You don't even know the players you are using given comments like:
- Pancaro is a wingback according to wiki (OK then
)- Pessotto played CB (really? in the 90s?) and is the better man-marker
- An U23 Ambrosini is good enough to neuter one of the best midfield playmakers of the 90s
- Stankovic was a bit part player for Lazio starting 12 games for them in their league winning season but is bossing Massimo Crippa who averaged 30/34 games a season for 8 seasons at Nápoli and Parma.
- Evani will have the better of an equally experienced Alemão playing CM, despite largely playing LM.
The entire platform for your front three is a mess of misrepresented players. That can't work, it would never work, let alone with a strong core of Kohler-Sensini-Mihajlovic and Peruzzi.
At best you could fluke one goal, but the sturdier spine, players doing what they actually did and proven combos in defence, midfield and attack would prevail.
It does work in poll-based games though, granted. You even had John Pantsil stopping Nils Liedholm once, so nothing will ever surprise me again
Bloody hell @the Religion, stop dilly dallying and switch
@TheReligion probably watching the Rui Costa clip
Wtf happened?
I knowWrong tag
edit: that's it!
should have pestered him earlier as he appears as viewing the thread 13 mins ago and the clip is 16mins long Good work @Edgar Allan Pillow, I've no idea how you do it but it works
At least I won on regular drafter votes. #moralvictory
At least I won on regular drafter votes. #moralvictory
Damn what a comeback . It was 17-10 to Anto at one stage in the middle of the night.
. It was 17-10 to Anto at one stage in the middle of the night.BTW, good sport not making an issue of the Herrera gifs with Uruguay.
They weren't going to make a difference but it was just killing me that I couldn't really do him justice. The best Uruguayan right back in my lifetime and the most cultured defender once he moved centrally, no question.
Didn't even bother check Cagliari games as they typically defended with men behind the ball and defenders can hardly impress when there's 4-5 of them chasing some poor sod.
They weren't going to make a difference but it was just killing me that I couldn't really do him justice. The best Uruguayan right back in my lifetime and the most cultured defender once he moved centrally, no question.
Didn't even bother check Cagliari games as they typically defended with men behind the ball and defenders can hardly impress when there's 4-5 of them chasing some poor sod.
Damn what a comeback
Was it? I think I jumped from 10-8 to 16-14 this morning and at that turnout I was sure it was going to go the wrong way eventually.
Good work @Edgar Allan Pillow, I've no idea how you do it but it works
At least I won on regular drafter votes. #moralvictory
In this game, I think my right flank's more popular names made the difference. I wanted to come in and post some Christina Aguilera skills video, but was trailing from get go and couldn't be bothered
You were leading 1-2 at start, then 1-6 after couple of hours and 2-8 when I went to bed. I was again trailin 10-15 when I woke up this morning which became 10-17. I logged back in to post congratulations to you and call this over, but then noticed the scores were at 15-17 or so. Decided to do a couple of more posts to see how this goes, and it finally swung my way, 2hrs about before the deadline.
Riveting.
Aguilera would have you murdered for that. Similar to Romario in that as well, he was that typical annoying little shit constantly looking for trouble and then having his big lump sidekick sorting things out.In this game, I think my right flank's more popular names made the difference. I wanted to come in and post some Christina Aguilera skills video, but was trailing from get go and couldn't be bothered
Time-wasting sub in the Coppa Italia final
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How do I change my vote? The Costa video was sensational @antohan
Poor anto!
Didn't see the close time. What a silly one to have. Who closes anything at 20 to the hour ffs..
It's set to 24hrs from the time thread was created. There are no options to manually set a time.
Judging by the number of votes for a round one encounter.. hated adored but never ignored would sum the participants up. Didn't think you would win EAP.. voted for you when you were 9-17 down
An emphatic comeback to draft tournaments.
Good game @antohan Hard luck. A few mins and it'd have swung the other way again.