Semi Finals: Argentina vs Croatia | Eng... France vs Morocco

Fanatic 00237 said:
Let me put it this way: it's like a defender going in for a tackle, gets dribbled and misses the ball but his leg follows through and brings down the attacker. I think we all agree that is a clear foul. (The question here with your lline of argument would be: what should the defender have done with his leg to to avoid committing the foul).
So now, let the defender be the GK, and let the attempted tackle be the GK rushing off his line in an attempt to intercept the ball from the attacker. GK doesn't get the ball but blocks the attacker from progressing due to the presence of his widespread arms and body (intending to get the ball).

Some said yesterday that it was 50-50 but I think it's as stonewall as you can get.
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Completely disagree, sorry. Two different things IMO, sliding tackle is an attempt to win a ball, and contact is then caused by the defender's momentum and here we have a goalkeeper whose movements are actions to position himself properly to close the attacker's angle to make a save, not to win the ball and contact is caused by the attacker's momentum not his.

It is nothing wrong with what either goalkeeper or attacker did, but it is just a collision that should not be awarded a penalty.

But, I might not be completely objective as I'm from Croatia so I can take the opinions of those who think that is a clear penalty. What bothers me more is that VAR should be activated because Orsato was positioned poorly to make that decision straight away and without a check.

From Orsato's point of view, it is a clear penalty, looking like Livaković tripped Alvarez so I can understand his decision. But I talked to two friends today, both officiating games in Croatia, and they said that he should be running diagonally to have the best angle to see the situation and make the correct decision. He didn't do that, neither he made a video check or consult with VAR so that is disappointing for a football game at this level.
 
Jippy said:
For me, he doesn't make a move towards the player. The commentator actually agreed too, so your take on it is not universal.

Tbh I'd rather the French won out of them and Argentina, who have been decent but too readily resort to shithousery for my tastes. Messi has had a very good tournament and he tucked away that dodgy pen nicely.
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Nah mate, he’s going for the ball, the attacker had the ball ergo he’s moving towards the player. He doesn’t get the ball, he gets the player. Anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul, in football it’s also a foul if it happens in the penalty area because really that’s what a foul is 90% of the time, going for the ball, not getting the ball and impeding the player instead. There’s this weird argument that it’s Alvarez who runs into the keeper but that would only be valid if the keeper never actually moved towards the ball that he wasn’t in possession of, but he did move.

No wonder Walton looked absolutely perplexed on the studio given the clarity of the whole incident. 10 minutes that 3 ex pros spent discussing a clear cut penalty, at least McCoist seemed to have his head screwed on and eyes open, he sounded as shocked the rest of us that it was even being debated. Then again he probably doesn’t have much of an axe to grind with the Argies.
 
Upamecano and Rabiot are out because of illness, replaced by Konaté and Fofana.
 
lex talionis said:
The Argentina attacker ran through the Croatia keeper. If that’s now a penalty, fine, but those who argue it’s a penalty should provide clear guidance on what the keeper should have done in that situation that he did not do to avoid committing the foul that he allegedly committed.
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Get a touch on the ball? Same way defenders need to get something on the ball before they send an attacker down. It’s actually really black and white, theres no shades of grey where these particular rules are concerned.

Imagine a midfielder running towards an attacker, the attacker shifts the ball out the way and the midfielder clatters the attacker; then the midfielder says “sorry what was I supposed to do? I couldn’t get out of the way after I’d made my move” :lol: I mean ffs you’d laugh your arse off at that. Why do people want keepers to get special treatment where fouling players is concerned?
 
Joel Miller said:
Nah mate, he’s going for the ball, the attacker had the ball ergo he’s moving towards the player. He doesn’t get the ball, he gets the player. Anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul, in football it’s also a foul if it happens in the penalty area because really that’s what a foul is 90% of the time, going for the ball, not getting the ball and impeding the player instead. There’s this weird argument that it’s Alvarez who runs into the keeper but that would only be valid if the keeper never actually moved towards the ball that he wasn’t in possession of, but he did move.

No wonder Walton looked absolutely perplexed on the studio given the clarity of the whole incident. 10 minutes that 3 ex pros spent discussing a clear cut penalty, at least McCoist seemed to have his head screwed on and eyes open, he sounded as shocked the rest of us that it was even being debated. Then again he probably doesn’t have much of an axe to grind with the Argies.
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Not for me, but we clearly disagree. The keeper isn't obliged to move out his way and I didn't see movements towards Alvarez. The anywhere else on the pitch argument doesn't work when it's the keeper, cos it wouldn't happen anywhere else.
Ultimately it probably didn't make a difference, with Argentina the more incisive team on the night. I wasn't watching UK coverage, so only saw in the paper that the pundits there disagreed and dunno who Walton is. The commentators here thought it was harsh too though for what it's worth.
 
calodo2003 said:
It'll be tough, but I'm pulling for them.
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Think Rabiot may be the big miss for France. Felt Upamacano was a liability but not sure where Konate falls. Just needing to make changes might be enough to swing things for Morocco
 
Fanatic 00237 said:
Let me put it this way: it's like a defender going in for a tackle, gets dribbled and misses the ball but his leg follows through and brings down the attacker. I think we all agree that is a clear foul. (The question here with your lline of argument would be: what should the defender have done with his leg to to avoid committing the foul).
So now, let the defender be the GK, and let the attempted tackle be the GK rushing off his line in an attempt to intercept the ball from the attacker. GK doesn't get the ball but blocks the attacker from progressing due to the presence of his widespread arms and body (intending to get the ball).

Some said yesterday that it was 50-50 but I think it's as stonewall as you can get.
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Don't think it is the same scenario. If the keeper made a sliding tackle, missed the ball and took out the player, that logic makes sense. Or if the keeper missed the ball during the jump and then put his leg out and then got the player.
In this scenario, the keeper had already jumped to block and landed and immediately got clattered. I don't think it is as stonewall as people are claiming.
 
Rabiot missing out would be a big miss, as he's been an unsung hero for France this WC. No Pogba, no Kante, no problem.

Will be interesting to see how France deals with Morocco's running and intensity off the ball.
 
Ted Lasso said:
What are the chances Morocco pull this off?
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10 %. But that means there is a chance!

The French squad consists of a few native French and the rest are creme de la creme of South European and African ancestry.

Algeria, Cameroons, Portugal, Mauritania, Mali, Senegal, Italy, Guinea Bissau, Spain, Angola, Germany and more. Absolutely amazing that France has managed to make a team of such a diverse playing pool, only US can compete on that front. And the results are there to see from World Cup 1998 to today.
 
Morocco actually look strong tonight. Mazraoui and Aguerd are back, Saiss is fit as well.
 
Saiss is an absolute tank. His hamstring is fecked, he shouldn’t be playing. Can see him getting subbed off early but the fact he’s going through it could galvanise the team.
 
tjb said:
Does he have an issue with Camavinga in the middle?
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Deschamps is a very defensive manager and Camavinga can be rather adventurous. I doubt he would’ve called up Camavinga if Kante and Pogba were fit. Maybe the French delegation here know more.
 
Morocco going all in for this game. Going with 2 half injured CBs, it could mean absolute glory or a total debacle for them against players like Mbappé and Dembele.

RG77 said:
Deschamps is a very defensive manager and Camavinga can be rather adventurous. I doubt he would’ve called up Camavinga if Kante and Pogba were fit. Maybe the French delegation here know more.
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Tbf, it's also because Camavinga really sucked with France when he had minutes lately.
 
Expected line up from France except a couple of changes due to illness. Upamecano, Rabiot out, Konate, Fofana in.

Morocco have played 4-1-4-1 the whole Championship except second half against Portugal when they played 5-4-1. Today it seems as if they start with 5-4-1 from the offset. Don't know if this really is a good choice, Ounahi and Amrabat will have a lot to do in the middle against 3 French players with Amallah on the bench.
 
I want France to paste Morocco and then get pasted by Argentina. So this is an odd game to watch.

The refereeeing of this tournament seems to play favourites so I expect a lot of decisons to go Morocco's way tonight
 
RG77 said:
Deschamps is a very defensive manager and Camavinga can be rather adventurous. I doubt he would’ve called up Camavinga if Kante and Pogba were fit. Maybe the French delegation here know more.
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Camavinga hasn't been good, he wouldn't deserve to be called if Kanté or Pogba were fit.

Now Fofana hasn't been great either, better than Camavinga or Guendouzi but I don't expect him to be good tonight.
 
The bromance betweeb Mbappe and Hakimi is pretty adorable
 
Would be nice to see Morocco go through, perhaps fully fit they could do the same as the last round, grab a goal and defend well. Just very hard to contain France even if a few play not so good.

For atmosphere alone it should be Arg vs Mor
 
Come on Morocco, they need a miracle but most of the world is behind you tonight
 
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