Selling Fred was a mistake

arthurka said:
Fred was never good enough.
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Exactly. Cannot understand that some fans actually support the theme / question of this thread. Can we please just let this go.

We still have some poor players at our club, and we shouldn't be seeking to retain poor players at our club. We have players that no other teams want! Look where Fred is playing now. No one wants Sancho. No one wants Anthony Martial. Managers can't be bothered with some of our players, yet we want to keep them?

We have to raise our standards, and that means some decisions need to be made. ETH is trying in this regard and we should support him.
 
Ali Dia said:
This is gas. Imagine someone calling Kante or fabinhio but with goals and assists a golden retriever. You guys are blind. He wasn’t a dm. Nobdoy can play beside McT the invisible man and look classy. Yes he’s not a press resistant one man dm playmaker and a box too box but by god he tried and also he’s been our best player in lots of our best wins too. I guess it’s hard to admit when you’ve got this point of view that he’s just a shit player. He’s class but erratic trying to do everything. The only guy in a Utd shirt who gave a shite surrounded by mercenaries for most of his time here
Better signing than Pogba.
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In some ways he was a better signing than Pogba but that’s not especially relevant. It was arguably a mistake that we didn’t sell Pogba two years earlier and get some cash for him (if anyone would take him).

Compared to Pogba, Fred had virtues that count for a lot in a team sport. We all know what they were. But he also had deficiencies. It is somewhat unhelpful to compare Pogba with Fred (as players) because they are so different and also Pogba was not part of the thinking, he was in the past.

The thinking was purely down to the desired makeup of the squad and the realistic options. You could argue he would have been a more useful option than McT but I think we would have been happy to shift McT as well and you also have to consider their ages.

I agree Fred was sometimes MOTM but not very often. The more important issue is the fit for the squad and the system. If he was still here he’d be competing for one of the high 8 positions and could do some of the pressing part but would be less effective with the quick, accurate passing required. His skillset is also not adaptable so he is less effective when coming deeper and linking play.

He was a game lad with a great engine and, I think, we all appreciated him. He wasn’t shit (and it’s really silly to say that he was), but his being on the pitch mainly had more downsides than upsides in the context of a team with ambition to challenge for titles.

Decent player = Yes
Mistake to sell him = No
 
Escobar said:
Funny how player are remembered as great once they are gone. I am sure someone will claim McT was amazing for us if we ever manage to sell him
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Oh, we had people arguing that Smalling was in the top-three centre-halves on the island. He wasn't getting the same love while he was here. Once he left, he became world-
class.

People would have probably be saying the same about McT, had his move to WHU materialized. Just like they were seeing positives in his performance on Saturday in a game during which there were periods of 10-15 minutes when United was averaging 10%-20% possession against relegation fodder. Moyes loves this style of football and it also fits McT to a tee.

Which kind of is the point with Fred, too. How can you watch that shite on stick performance the other day and come to the conclusion that the attributes we're missing as a team to move forward are Fred's is just baffling. Or, perhaps, it isn't. The way the McTs, the Hannibals and the Freds constantly find their way into our midfield (i mean the type) while we never seem interested to make room for the Gundogans and the Silvas seems rather indicative of how the game of football is being perceived in the red side of Manchester.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Well with that attitude I take it you'll never listen but: He was (low and behold) one of the best in our away win against PSG. Didn't get the Motm however.
Then he was Motm against Barcelona (2-1)
Then he was motm against City (2-1)

The notion that he couldnt do it against good opposition is bullshit. He wasnt Kante in his prime, sure, but he was still a good player.

I think it was his second season, he had a streak of so many great games where he ran the midfield and was everywhere. Unfortunately that wasn't every day at United. We needed to get rid to build something new, but Fred has been scapegoated enough. We really dont know if Amrabat will be better, but we'll have to try.
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McT has more goals and more MOTM awards than Fred, and we should have sold him this summer too.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
Oh, we had people arguing that Smalling was in the top-three centre-halves on the island. He wasn't getting the same love while he was here. Once he left, he became world-
class.

People would have probably be saying the same about McT, had his move to WHU materialized. Just like they were seeing positives in his performance on Saturday in a game during which there were periods of 10-15 minutes when United was averaging 10%-20% possession against relegation fodder. Moyes loves this style of football and it also fits McT to a tee.

Which kind of is the point with Fred, too. How can you watch that shite on stick performance the other day and come to the conclusion that the attributes we're missing as a team to move forward are Fred's is just baffling. Or, perhaps, it isn't. The way the McTs, the Hannibals and the Freds constantly find their way into our midfield (i mean the type) while we never seem interested to make room for the Gundogans and the Silvas seems rather indicative of how the game of football is being perceived in the red side of Manchester.
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We had people saying Maguire was top 3 in the world. There’s hoping a player comes good and then there’s insanity. The weirdest thing about the Fred-love is that people act like wanting to play for United is enough. Fred had a great attitude but that is the fecking bare minimum requirement.
 
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Bobcat said:
He had his limitations, but not replacing him with a midfilder with similar attributes was daft. Its also daft that we keep McTomminay and sell Fred when the former is just inferior in pretty much everything
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This was just a matter of timing, we're clearly getting rid of both.
 
I always liked Fred. He was easily one of my fav United players the last decade and was pretty decent all his time here.
 
Selling Fred wasn't the issue, having someone onboard to replace him was.
Arguably, if we had got someone in before selling him, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
 
He was an ok player that just turned 30 with a year left on his contract. We weren't going to be able to keep him unless with gave him a long term contract. That said, he would be a better option than McTominay, but that's on the club for not selling Scott and getting an adequate replacement in for him as well.
 
Matt Varnish said:
Selling Fred wasn't the issue, having someone onboard to replace him was.
Arguably, if we had got someone in before selling him, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
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We did, it's Mount. As much as I'm unsure on him, we had a plan for this.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
We had people saying Maguire was top 3 in the world. There’s hoping a player comes good and then there’s insanity. The weirdest thing about the Fred-love is that people act like wanting to play for United is enough. Fred had a great attitude but that is the fecking bare minimum requirement.
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I don't think that's the case. Fred had plenty of great games for us. He had 4 games in a row last season that I think he was MoTM in. His problem was his bad games were absolutely terrible and that's what many people remember. He had/has a lot of fans on this forum. There were many of us that praised him a lot in his thread.

A great attitude should be the bare minimum, but plenty of our players over the years have failed that requirement. Many have walked/jogged about constantly.
 
Fred, Beek and McTominay out, Mount, Amrabat, Mainoo and Hannibal in seems like a step forward. We're just not there yet for various reasons. In particular, I'm hoping that Hannibal can assume Fred's role in the squad.
 
Bobcat said:
He had his limitations, but not replacing him with a midfilder with similar attributes was daft. Its also daft that we keep McTomminay and sell Fred when the former is just inferior in pretty much everything
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McTominey was/is available for transfer.

We didnt keep him because we wanted too, we kept him because we didnt have a suitable offer or an offer the player wanted.

We have various players still here who aren't good enough - just a waiting game until they are sol
 
Matt Varnish said:
Selling Fred wasn't the issue, having someone onboard to replace him was.
Arguably, if we had got someone in before selling him, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.
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Amrabat, Hannibal being utilised and Mount. How many fecking Midfielders do you need to replace Fred??
 
Escobar said:
Funny how player are remembered as great once they are gone. I am sure someone will claim McT was amazing for us if we ever manage to sell him
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Jeffthered said:
Exactly. Cannot understand that some fans actually support the theme / question of this thread. Can we please just let this go.

We still have some poor players at our club, and we shouldn't be seeking to retain poor players at our club. We have players that no other teams want! Look where Fred is playing now. No one wants Sancho. No one wants Anthony Martial. Managers can't be bothered with some of our players, yet we want to keep them?

We have to raise our standards, and that means some decisions need to be made. ETH is trying in this regard and we should support him.
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Absolutely, it's really funny how these players who haven't been close to being good enough all of a sudden become some all Star players. Fred was never good enough and that's a fact. Glad he is gone.
 
Craig Ward said:
Amrabat, Hannibal being utilised and Mount. How many fecking Midfielders do you need to replace Fred??
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Amrabat was a last minute loan signing AFTER Fred had been sold
Hannibal was already here, and is more like a headless chicken at the moment.
No way can you consider Mount a replacement for Fred
 
arthurka said:
Absolutely, it's really funny how these players who haven't been close to being good enough all of a sudden become some all Star players. Fred was never good enough and that's a fact. Glad he is gone.
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If he was so good why did we manage to barely push him to Turkey and not to another top team….
 
One of the players that I actually didnt have any beef with but there is no mistake if Casemiro and Armabat are alternatives
 
Escobar said:
If he was so good why did we manage to barely push him to Turkey and not to another top team….
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Yeah and that, why weren't there teams lined up to get Fred on a great deal. Brazilian national team starter and all.
 
The cafe has a tendency to overrate players once they leave. I like Fred, I think he’s a good workhorse but he wasn’t technically good enough. The mistake was not signing a midfielder in the same mould as the midfield lacks energy
 
Lay said:
The cafe has a tendency to overrate players once they leave. I like Fred, I think he’s a good workhorse but he wasn’t technically good enough. The mistake was not signing a midfielder in the same mould as the midfield lacks energy
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Agree. He was bang average, despite his effort level. There isnt one top 10 Premier league team that would have him in their starting XI.

Amrabat is the replacement. Should be a massive upgrade on Fred.
 
Lay said:
The cafe has a tendency to overrate players once they leave. I like Fred, I think he’s a good workhorse but he wasn’t technically good enough. The mistake was not signing a midfielder in the same mould as the midfield lacks energy
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I agree, I actually think if Hannibal gets the same amount of gametime this season that Fred got last season, he'll not only give the energy we need but he'll be more technically astute than Fred.

Fred was horribly average, just like Ander Herrera but the Caf love them because they run around a lot.

Fred and Bruno could not play in the same team and a major reason our press never worked. They ran around like headless chickens leaving masses of behind down the side and behind them, Bruno still does the same now and the fans lap it up but its a major hindrance when trying to press a team and set traps for them to pass into.
 
Selling Fred is fine, and I say that as somebody who always thought he was a good squad player and gets unfairly criticized. He was 30, had 1 year left on his deal, and it made sense to sell him since ETH was not keen on retaining him.

The issue is we needed to bring in a CM in a mor timely fashion, which we finally did get done with Amrabat at the very end of the window. Hopefully he's good enough and gives us the energy and work rate Fred provided with greater capacity for helping us build and progress play from the back.

McTominay should've also been sold and replaced, and I'd have preferred to sell him and keep Fred if 1 was going to stay, but neither should be long-term core pieces of the squad and likely will not be.
 
Solius said:
We did, it's Mount. As much as I'm unsure on him, we had a plan for this.
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The wrong plan mate... Mount feels like a square peg in a round hole. Sadly, representative of 70% of our transfers in the last 8 years or so.
 
OrcaFat said:
In some ways he was a better signing than Pogba but that’s not especially relevant. It was arguably a mistake that we didn’t sell Pogba two years earlier and get some cash for him (if anyone would take him).

Compared to Pogba, Fred had virtues that count for a lot in a team sport. We all know what they were. But he also had deficiencies. It is somewhat unhelpful to compare Pogba with Fred (as players) because they are so different and also Pogba was not part of the thinking, he was in the past.

The thinking was purely down to the desired makeup of the squad and the realistic options. You could argue he would have been a more useful option than McT but I think we would have been happy to shift McT as well and you also have to consider their ages.

I agree Fred was sometimes MOTM but not very often. The more important issue is the fit for the squad and the system. If he was still here he’d be competing for one of the high 8 positions and could do some of the pressing part but would be less effective with the quick, accurate passing required. His skillset is also not adaptable so he is less effective when coming deeper and linking play.

He was a game lad with a great engine and, I think, we all appreciated him. He wasn’t shit (and it’s really silly to say that he was), but his being on the pitch mainly had more downsides than upsides in the context of a team with ambition to challenge for titles.

Decent player = Yes
Mistake to sell him = No
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Nice, balanced post.
 
arthurka said:
Absolutely, it's really funny how these players who haven't been close to being good enough all of a sudden become some all Star players. Fred was never good enough and that's a fact. Glad he is gone.
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Jeezus christ this thread is full of bullshit from the usual poster haters. Fred was never good enough and that's a fact like a 15 year old kid statement. If he wasn't good enough why we still have inferior players like McTominay, Eriksen to go into season. If we were not greedy we could easily sell useless McTominay and get a good competitive player to start.

Then the manager decides to make Mount. into an 8 which he's and it's ahuge task to even match Fred's performances especially from the excellent defensive perspective. Yet we can't a single midfielder who is able to press which is so painfully average for a top aspiring team and will cost this manager his head.

I am all for replacing Fred and yes he's been 30 and left a year on his contract so it made sense to some extent but first we should have chosen to get rid of dross like MCtominay, Van De Beek and Eriksen to really upgrade the team. The problem is noone even wanted the latter two.No need to talk about VDB, he's a costly mistake unlike Fred who cost slighlty more but was very usefull squad player carrying team in crisis years at time and many biggames too.

But for Eriksen who on earth he's valued here so high. People don't understand this is a super athletic sport that require not only to have technical ability but to be able to pull it in top speed, and he's absolute far away from being a top athlete, unable to turn with the ball under pressure, his one hollywood ball per few games won't justify his lack of anything doing in top speed and really awful off the ball play. He should have gone much earlier than Fred, he showed absolutely nothing in the red shirt compared to the Brasilian, yet he gets so much love for being more composed when he's got the time, which he will never get in the PL anymore.

The start to the season really sums it up, looking at the lack of control and off the ball play. Looking at Casemiro with more than double lost balls deeper in midfield comapred to Fred too, but people don't care as he's Casemiro.
 
Matt Varnish said:
Amrabat was a last minute loan signing AFTER Fred had been sold
Hannibal was already here, and is more like a headless chicken at the moment.
No way can you consider Mount a replacement for Fred
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I've named 3 midfield players who pay centrally (where Fred plays), who were not around our 1st team squad last season, but are this.
 
The business aspect of it aside, we’d be better off with Fred and without McTominay.
 
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