see what happens when veron doesnt play,we play our best football

mazie

Guest
see what happens when veron doesnt play,we played the best ive seen for along time,scholes has to be in the middle was great today,played some really good stuff,without veron trying to pass 50 yards all the time,even fortune in the middle played well with scholes,

we need to keep veron out of the first 11 or we will nothing,cant sir alex just except he made a bad buy,[not the first]

please dont change a winning team alex or it will be our downfall.
 
Look, mazie, just enjoy the result, there's no need to have a go at Seba
 
someone always has to find something negative to say, don't they.

<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Originally posted by kf:
<strong>Look, mazie, just enjoy the result, there's no need to have a go at Seba</strong><hr></blockquote>

can you agree that we should keep a winning team (at least for the next PL games?)
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Originally posted by farawaylands:
<strong>

can you agree that we should keep a winning team (at least for the next PL games?)</strong><hr></blockquote>

thing is injury permitting that team is nowhere near our first choice if beckham butt keane or veron are fit then they will come in
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Perhaps this thread should be re-titled "...when Veron doesn't play, we play our best football in the EPL." After today's match, wouldn't you say that is a valid argument? We played our best football this season, with fast attacking play and sharp one-to-one passing, creating lots of chances - everything that's been missing from our game so far - and the thought did cross my mind; 'is it because Veron isn't playing?'

Don't get me wrong, Veron is a great player and I would not start a CL match without him, but surely his inclusion in the EPL creates a real dilemma for us (from what I have seen of his EPL performances)?
 
Veron has been our best player in Europe.

By a country mile.
 
Originally posted by mazie:
[QB]see what happens when veron doesnt play,QB]<hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

See what happens when

Ferdinand
Keane
Beckham
Butt
Neville

dont play <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
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why is everybody going on about europe?

ill tell u this we would have done just as good without veron in europe too,we dont need him,


so everbody thats going on about veron,would rather have him than scholes in the middle,becuase once keanes back thats what it will be.veron is sir alex blue eye boy.

didnt we win euro cup with or without veron?hes
been good in europe not outstanding,nothing scholes couldnt have done if he was playing in the middle,

pl should be our main objective,not euro cup
 
Originally posted by mazie:
<strong>why is everybody going on about europe?
ill tell u this we would have done just as good without veron in europe too,we dont need him,
so everbody thats going on about veron,would rather have him than scholes in the middle,becuase once keanes back thats what it will be.veron is sir alex blue eye boy.
didnt we win euro cup with or without veron?hes
been good in europe not outstanding,nothing scholes couldnt have done if he was playing in the middle,
pl should be our main objective,not euro cup</strong><hr></blockquote>

All very well saying the PL should be our priority now but no one was happy when we won "just" the league in 2000 & 2001.
We had hit a brick wall in Europe and we need a change in direction.
Last season being our 2nd best season in Europe for 30 yrs justifies Sir Alex's actions.
When we have a fully fit midfield with 4 top class central midfielders battling for a place im sure Scholes on current form would get the nod, he didnt last season as he was poor for long spells.
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Originally posted by Murt
he didnt last season as he was poor for long spells.<hr></blockquote>

That's only because he hadn't become used to playing out of position. Scholsey has been absolutely brilliant for us when playing in his natural position of central midfield - today's match is a perfect example.

originally posted by mazie
why is everybody going on about europe?
ill tell u this we would have done just as good without veron in europe too,we dont need him,<hr></blockquote>

Sorry, but I disagee. Veron's measured and controlled passing game is perfectly suited to Europe and gives us an extra dimension in midfield, and if he helps us to win the CL, then he will have been well worth the money!

Originally posted by Murt
All very well saying the PL should be our priority now but no one was happy when we won "just" the league in 2000 & 2001.<hr></blockquote>

You are absolutely right there. SAF is in a no-win position - damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Murt, my dilemma with Veron is only in the EPL.
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Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>You are absolutely right there. SAF is in a no-win position - damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
Murt, my dilemma with Veron is only in the EPL.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hope and believe that when we have a fully fit midfield 4 itll be a form thing and Veron will be rested a lot more for European games.
Weve been forced to play him in the league, he hasnt done as bad as ppl make out, hes arguably had a better season than Giggs for example, domestically and in Europe.
When we get the 4 of em back it will be intresting to see how Fergie solves it.
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when everyones fit it will be

---barthez---
nev-rio-blanc-sil
bex-veron-roy-giggs
-----scholes-----
------ruud------
 
Originally posted by mazie:
<strong>why is everybody going on about europe?

ill tell u this we would have done just as good without veron in europe too,we dont need him,


so everbody thats going on about veron,would rather have him than scholes in the middle,becuase once keanes back thats what it will be.veron is sir alex blue eye boy.

didnt we win euro cup with or without veron?hes
been good in europe not outstanding,nothing scholes couldnt have done if he was playing in the middle,

pl should be our main objective,not euro cup</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why not Europe? There's a big difference between being a big fish in a small pond and a big fish in a big pond. It's all very well to win the league, but no team is a great team unless they win the greatest prize of all. Several times.

So I will personally put up with shite performances in the league this year if we can win the European Cup. At Old Trafford I may add.
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Originally posted by Sambora:
<strong>when everyones fit it will be

---barthez---
nev-rio-blanc-sil
bex-veron-roy-giggs
-----scholes-----
------ruud------</strong><hr></blockquote>

After the monumental performance of Paul Scholes in centre midfield today, I will feel like banging my head against the hardest surface I can find if we still choose to waste him as a withdrawn striker. Yes, he can do a job there - but it's not as good as the one he can do in the position he played today.

Anyone who watched today's game surely can't advocate anything else!
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Originally posted by Sambora:
<strong>when everyones fit it will be

---barthez---
nev-rio-blanc-sil
bex-veron-roy-giggs
-----scholes-----
------ruud------</strong><hr></blockquote>


And this formation is exactly one of the reasons why we decline in these two years.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

After the monumental performance of Paul Scholes in centre midfield today, I will feel like banging my head against the hardest surface I can find if we still choose to waste him as a withdrawn striker. Yes, he can do a job there - but it's not as good as the one he can do in the position he played today.

Anyone who watched today's game surely can't advocate anything else!</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, Murt would still think that Veron is a better player than Scholes ;)
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Originally posted by Aussie Red Devil:
<strong>I dont believe you</strong><hr></blockquote>

About putting up with shite performances in the league?

This season I will. What could be better than winning the European Cup on your home ground? The Manchester street party will go on for days.
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Originally posted by Sambora:
<strong>when everyones fit it will be

---barthez---
nev-rio-blanc-sil
bex-veron-roy-giggs
-----scholes-----
------ruud------</strong><hr></blockquote>

Europe?


take becks out and put in Ole..
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>No, Murt would still think that Veron is a better player than Scholes ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

When have i said that? <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />
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Originally posted by Sambora:
<strong>when everyones fit it will be

---barthez---
nev-rio-blanc-sil
bex-veron-roy-giggs
-----scholes-----
------ruud------</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd go for....

.........Barthez
O'Shea - Wes - Rio - Micky
Becks - Scholes - Roy - Giggs
........Ole - Ruud

Maybe bring in Blanc and veron for European games.
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Originally posted by spinoza:
<strong>

Why not Europe? There's a big difference between being a big fish in a small pond and a big fish in a big pond. It's all very well to win the league, but no team is a great team unless they win the greatest prize of all. Several times.

So I will personally put up with shite performances in the league this year if we can win the European Cup. At Old Trafford I may add.</strong><hr></blockquote>

We should go for both EPL and CL. Veron played much better in Europe than in PL, so he should return to the starting lineup in the game against Basle. But in EPL, yesterday's result is a complete and final proof that we'd better get rid of him.
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

When have i said that? <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

you surely have said that somewhere aren't you ;)

Who will you choose to play in CM in EPL now? Veron or Scholes?
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Originally posted by sidsutton:
<strong>

I'd go for....

.........Barthez
O'Shea - Wes - Rio - Micky
Becks - Scholes - Roy - Giggs
........Ole - Ruud

Maybe bring in Blanc and veron for European games.</strong><hr></blockquote>

even with that formation, i fear we'd have no width... will be interesting to see Beckham back, i wonder if he'll attack the wings like Ole did today?
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

you surely have said that somewhere aren't you ;)

Who will you choose to play in CM in EPL now? Veron or Scholes?</strong><hr></blockquote>

CM?

veron, no doubt.

PL - scholes.

no matter how much you hate veron, you can't deny he's top notch in Europe.. 4 goals in 5 games not bad at all....
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>you surely have said that somewhere aren't you ;)
Who will you choose to play in CM in EPL now? Veron or Scholes?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Both of em. :p
If Keane and Butt suddenly got fit id leave them out until i had to rest one of the other 2, if they got injured or if they played below par once or twice.
Weve 4 brilliant central midfielders, play the ones best suited to such a game and the tactics being applied and/ or by form.
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Mazie is your real name Phil Neville ! Let me guess !!! your upset that you haven't started the last 2 games <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> and that you've been drop bcoz your shit ;)
 
When will we have a full squad fit ??? Likely never. I feel that Veron has earned his place in Europe, and expect to see him start in Basle. The real conundrum is in the premiership where he is not up to the pace, inhibits the others, and frankly seldom performs for a full 90 minutes, even when he does appear to start ok.

The first real managerial test of the season, ie where Fergie will be expected to make choices which could influence the result, will be next weekend agst Liverpool. I'd like to see us start with a similar line-up in the key premiership encounters to today's team...Veron on the bench for the Liverpool game.
 
Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

even with that formation, i fear we'd have no width... will be interesting to see Beckham back, i wonder if he'll attack the wings like Ole did today?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Becks should be TOLD to hug teh touchline more, like Ole did today. He just clogs things up when he cuts inside.
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Both of em. :p
If Keane and Butt suddenly got fit id leave them out until i had to rest one of the other 2, if they got injured or if they played below par once or twice.
Weve 4 brilliant central midfielders, play the ones best suited to such a game and the tactics being applied and/ or by form.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I doubt we will play "both" of them in CM except that we return to 4-5-1 again, which is the last thing I want to see. Why can't we just keep a winning team and see what happen?
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Originally posted by sidsutton:
<strong>

Becks should be TOLD to hug teh touchline more, like Ole did today. He just clogs things up when he cuts inside.</strong><hr></blockquote>

exactly..


was interesting to see how well we preformed without him... we had more space in the middle and more importantly, we stretched the game.. when he plays, like you pointed out, the midfield gets cluttered, which hinders our game....

on current form, Becks doesn't deserve a place in the PL and CL... thats unless, he gets back to crossing the ball in the box...
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

I doubt we will play "both" of them in CM except that we return to 4-5-1 again, which is the last thing I want to see. Why can't we just keep a winning team and see what happen?</strong><hr></blockquote>

While their theonly two fit central midfielders fit i expect to see them together.
when their all fit id like the following.
451: Scholes in the hole with 2 of Keane, Veron & Butt in defensive roles.
442: 1 defensive and attackminded midfielder, which would be Scholes + of the the three as well.
It also depends on the opposition. 2 defensive midfielders may be the preferred option which leaves Scholes out

Horses for courses.
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Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

I doubt we will play "both" of them in CM except that we return to 4-5-1 again, which is the last thing I want to see. Why can't we just keep a winning team and see what happen?</strong><hr></blockquote>

4-5-1 suits europe....

who gives a feck what u want to see?
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Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

exactly..


was interesting to see how well we preformed without him... we had more space in the middle and more importantly, we stretched the game.. when he plays, like you pointed out, the midfield gets cluttered, which hinders our game....

on current for Becks doesn't deserve a place in the PL and CL... thats unless, he gets back to crossing the ball in the box...</strong><hr></blockquote>

maybe it's a chicken & egg thing. becks' form has taken a downturn since he went away from staying out wide and getting the crosses in?

TBH, his skills are not suited to CM at all. His short passing is not as strong enough IMO and he can't beat a player to create a bit of space. Mostly he has to run towards his own goal to get a bit of time and space on the ball.
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Originally posted by sidsutton:
<strong>

maybe it's a chicken & egg thing. becks' form has taken a dowturn since he went away from staying out wide and getting the crosses in?

TBH, his skills are not suited to CM at all. His short passing is not as strong enough IMO and he can't beat a player to create a bit of space. Mostly he has to run towards his won goal to get a bit of time and space on the ball.</strong><hr></blockquote>

yet, he was excellent in 99, CL!! i think teams found him and our style out, hence we changed to a 4-5-1!

i agree, his short passing isn't great, still think he can go a very good job, especially in the PL.. but he has to stop having dellusions of grandeur..and just be content, in knowing that he's the worlds best crosser and not a playmaker...
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Becks hasn't been fit since last season's injury. Not his fault in any way, but it is true. His work rate has been excellent, but his form isn't there. It is the manager's job to spot these things and act on them.

When he comes back he will need to show some form to justify automatic selection. We have several players returning from injury over the next few weeks, and they will all have to earn their places in the team. A number of players today raised their performance levels from recent weeks - notably Giggs, RVN, and Forlan. The players coming back will need to be hitting player ratings of 8 and above.
 
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