Sebastian Coates

M'n'M said:
Oh FFS get over yourself. Is it not possible to discuss the merits of a player without turning it into petty rivalry. The journalist used that line for dramtic effect and it obviously worked. I have no idea whatsoever what football team he supports.

No doubt. :boring:
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News here is the transfer is confirmed and he is travelling to get his medical and personal terms agreed. Definitely moving to Liverpool for 12M euros. At the prices the market is dealing with it's a good deal for both sides. He is not in a million years twice the player Phil Jones is, but not half the player either.

Will be good for them, much better than the dross they have. As far as assessments go, the twitter ones are too negative and the other guy is too gung-ho. Some truth in both.

Lugano was a perfect partner for him at Copa America (but saying Lugano made him look good is like saying Rio makes Vidic look good and viceversa) and he has been an absolute monster for Nacional (but then, the league standard is nothing to write home about).

It is correct to say that he is less imposing than his size would suggest. It is also correct that he is not an all-action charismatic leader of men. He is calm, but assured. He steps up to a challenge and takes responsibility for trying to turn a game around, but you won't see him haranging and/or berating others. He is the sort who owns up when he fecks up rather than point the finger elsewhere. Overall, a really good character, and one that will always inspire affection/admiration/loyalty.

He didn't for one minute cause any problems asking for a move to take advantage of his "moment", he knows it's not a blip. He rejected Dnipro despite them offering him significantly better wages than Pool, he knows what he wants. In the midst of the transfer going ons, his manager asked him to play this weekend despite just having arrived from his break and having no obligation to put himself at risk (the board actually didn't want him to play); he played.

Just seen him interviewed, he says he got better offers but he preferred the EPL and Liverpool being a club with such rich history, etc. He didn't try to make it sound like they were the best team in the world, not at all, just a team with a significant tradition and fanbase which commands respect, but it was clear he is aware there are big challenges ahead to align the current reality and the history. He mentioned Suarez being constantly in touch with him...

Bollocks, I'm going to be in two minds about Liverpool now. Suarez was bad enough, now this kid. Even if I'm a Peñarol fan and by definition shouldn't like Nacional players... Hope they do well, Suarez scores, Coates gets MOTM, but Pool just about manage to draw all games :)

On other Uruguay news: Forlan off to Inter, sorting personal terms tomorrow, 5M euros, not bad. Lugano off to Juventus, taking a paycut in the process but wanted one final shot at playing for a big team (apparently Chelsea bid but he didn't expect to get any games). Pereira to Chelsea the only one not done and dusted yet.

Hehe, I'm turning into a Uruguayan version of vuc :nervous:
 
BTW, I used to go to school with a relative of his and the surname the whole family used was Coates, i.e. like Coats. Obviously, fans here say it in Spanish (koh-ah-tes).

Asked whether he would stop being koh-ah-tes and turn into Coats he answered he would always be koh-ah-tes, so redman take notice.
 
I know he's a big lad, but how would you compare him with Ryan Shawcross? Because frankly I'm glad the dippers didn't get their hands on an English defender (who has had years of premiership experience).

South American defenders are always an iffy proposition in the English game. I can't recall many who have done well here.
 
I'd have him well above Shawcross but then I've only seen him at the Copa. For me he's somewhere near Smalling and Jones level, but he may take time to adapt
 
antohan said:
News here is the transfer is confirmed and he is travelling to get his medical and personal terms agreed. Definitely moving to Liverpool for 12M euros. At the prices the market is dealing with it's a good deal for both sides. He is not in a million years twice the player Phil Jones is, but not half the player either.

Will be good for them, much better than the dross they have. As far as assessments go, the twitter ones are too negative and the other guy is too gung-ho. Some truth in both.

Lugano was a perfect partner for him at Copa America (but saying Lugano made him look good is like saying Rio makes Vidic look good and viceversa) and he has been an absolute monster for Nacional (but then, the league standard is nothing to write home about).

It is correct to say that he is less imposing than his size would suggest. It is also correct that he is not an all-action charismatic leader of men. He is calm, but assured. He steps up to a challenge and takes responsibility for trying to turn a game around, but you won't see him haranging and/or berating others. He is the sort who owns up when he fecks up rather than point the finger elsewhere. Overall, a really good character, and one that will always inspire affection/admiration/loyalty.

He didn't for one minute cause any problems asking for a move to take advantage of his "moment", he knows it's not a blip. He rejected Dnipro despite them offering him significantly better wages than Pool, he knows what he wants. In the midst of the transfer going ons, his manager asked him to play this weekend despite just having arrived from his break and having no obligation to put himself at risk (the board actually didn't want him to play); he played.

Just seen him interviewed, he says he got better offers but he preferred the EPL and Liverpool being a club with such rich history, etc. He didn't try to make it sound like they were the best team in the world, not at all, just a team with a significant tradition and fanbase which commands respect, but it was clear he is aware there are big challenges ahead to align the current reality and the history. He mentioned Suarez being constantly in touch with him...

Bollocks, I'm going to be in two minds about Liverpool now. Suarez was bad enough, now this kid. Even if I'm a Peñarol fan and by definition shouldn't like Nacional players... Hope they do well, Suarez scores, Coates gets MOTM, but Pool just about manage to draw all games :)

On other Uruguay news: Forlan off to Inter, sorting personal terms tomorrow, 5M euros, not bad. Lugano off to Juventus, taking a paycut in the process but wanted one final shot at playing for a big team (apparently Chelsea bid but he didn't expect to get any games). Pereira to Chelsea the only one not done and dusted yet.

Hehe, I'm turning into a Uruguayan version of vuc :nervous:
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Thanks for that. A very good, balanced, assessment of the lad, without none of the hype/negativity shown elsewhere in the thread. I feel I know a lot more about the player than I did 24 hours ago.

There's a part of me that wants us to sign an established EPL centre-back such as Cahill or Dann. But the gambler in me wants to see if this lad can realise his potential with Liverpool, playing in one of the toughest leagues in the world. A defensive unit of: Reina - Kelly - Coates - Agger - Enrique - could serve us very well for years to come.
 
antohan said:
News here is the transfer is confirmed and he is travelling to get his medical and personal terms agreed. Definitely moving to Liverpool for 12M euros. At the prices the market is dealing with it's a good deal for both sides. He is not in a million years twice the player Phil Jones is, but not half the player either.

Will be good for them, much better than the dross they have. As far as assessments go, the twitter ones are too negative and the other guy is too gung-ho. Some truth in both.

Lugano was a perfect partner for him at Copa America (but saying Lugano made him look good is like saying Rio makes Vidic look good and viceversa) and he has been an absolute monster for Nacional (but then, the league standard is nothing to write home about).

It is correct to say that he is less imposing than his size would suggest. It is also correct that he is not an all-action charismatic leader of men. He is calm, but assured. He steps up to a challenge and takes responsibility for trying to turn a game around, but you won't see him haranging and/or berating others. He is the sort who owns up when he fecks up rather than point the finger elsewhere. Overall, a really good character, and one that will always inspire affection/admiration/loyalty.

He didn't for one minute cause any problems asking for a move to take advantage of his "moment", he knows it's not a blip. He rejected Dnipro despite them offering him significantly better wages than Pool, he knows what he wants. In the midst of the transfer going ons, his manager asked him to play this weekend despite just having arrived from his break and having no obligation to put himself at risk (the board actually didn't want him to play); he played.

Just seen him interviewed, he says he got better offers but he preferred the EPL and Liverpool being a club with such rich history, etc. He didn't try to make it sound like they were the best team in the world, not at all, just a team with a significant tradition and fanbase which commands respect, but it was clear he is aware there are big challenges ahead to align the current reality and the history. He mentioned Suarez being constantly in touch with him...

Bollocks, I'm going to be in two minds about Liverpool now. Suarez was bad enough, now this kid. Even if I'm a Peñarol fan and by definition shouldn't like Nacional players... Hope they do well, Suarez scores, Coates gets MOTM, but Pool just about manage to draw all games :)

On other Uruguay news: Forlan off to Inter, sorting personal terms tomorrow, 5M euros, not bad. Lugano off to Juventus, taking a paycut in the process but wanted one final shot at playing for a big team (apparently Chelsea bid but he didn't expect to get any games). Pereira to Chelsea the only one not done and dusted yet.

Hehe, I'm turning into a Uruguayan version of vuc :nervous:
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Impressive information. Not a bad player at all if true.

Hope he does a Shevchenko/Veron/Brolin though :D
 
Brwned said:
It's something that Sir Alex has based his entire philosophy around - bollocks it is not. Something tells me he doesn't see it as just a simple fall back, he believes it's a genuine quality that you can identify in players and it's utterly key:
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Fair enough but as far as I'm aware Alex Ferguson doesn't post in here.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
''Sebastian Coates has been signed, sealed and delivered to Anfield. For a fee of less than half the price of Phil Jones the Merseysiders have bagged themselves twice the player. ''

Delusion at its worst
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:boring:

While that quote is so obviously over the top that the journalist has since deleted it from his article (job done some would say as it got him the attention it warranted) I think your accusation of delusion is somewhat misplaced.

Is it delusional to assume that a player who has recently won young player of the tournament at a top international event while playing for the eventual winners (who incidentally are a better team than the mighty England or if you use FIFA as your bible they are certainly comparable at 4th & 5th) and being a regular in the team which has won the honours already posted above, is as good as or has as much "potential" as Phil Jones - the former Blackburn player with a mighty impressive list of domestic honours and international caps?

While I admit that Phil Jones will turn out to be a top top player, the suggestion that even the idea Coates will turn out to be as good or better than Phil Jones is delusional is RAWKish in the extreme.

For the record, I'm not saying he is better or going to be better, I guess we'll find out over the next few seasons.
 
M'n'M said:
Fair enough but as far as I'm aware Alex Ferguson doesn't post in here.
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I'm not sure that's relevant to the point that there is such a thing as potential and it is identifiable. Not that anyone on here's capable of identifying it, mind. But then they're not capable of spotting quality either. The vast majority of football fans can't. Doesn't stop people from talking about it though...
 
I agree that people will talk about it but they also use it as a crutch, a disclaimer if you will.

He has the potential to be brilliant. He turns out to be shite. Ah but he didn't live up to his potential. Maybe he never had any potential in the first place but because he has just signed for your club (the royal "you") you have to believe he does.

I'll still use it myself of course, I'm just saying that it's immeasurable and fans use it as a basis for comparison between players.

I'm just talking shite now, ignore me.
 
M'n'M said:
I agree that people will talk about it but they also use it as a crutch, a disclaimer if you will.

He has the potential to be brilliant. He turns out to be shite. Ah but he didn't live up to his potential. Maybe he never had any potential in the first place but because he has just signed for your club (the royal "you") you have to believe he does.

I'll still use it myself of course, I'm just saying that it's immeasurable and fans use it as a basis for comparison between players.

I'm just talking shite now, ignore me.
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It's not a whole lot less measurable than actual quality.

As you can see from threads like the "Anderson vs Lucas" one, where people really struggle to provide any kind of objective evidence as to who's the better player.

For amateur pundits like us, the only way to judge "potential" in young 'uns is by watching them play a lot of football and looking out for times when they look like a top level footballer. Whether this be moments in games, or whole games, sometimes talented young can raise their game to an extent where you could really see them in the first team. At these moments they look absolutely miles better than all their peers, as though the level they're playing at is far too easy for them.

The theory from here is that they will get more consistent as they mature and these moments will become more and more frequent. Of course that won't always happen but it shouldn't stop people from having an opinion about how good a young player can become.
 
Devilton said:
I know he's a big lad, but how would you compare him with Ryan Shawcross? Because frankly I'm glad the dippers didn't get their hands on an English defender (who has had years of premiership experience).

South American defenders are always an iffy proposition in the English game. I can't recall many who have done well here.
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To be honest, I don't get to see a lot of Shawcross but I don't see them as comparable. The twitter guy made a good point about Lugano doing all the fighting and Coates "sweeping the mess around him". I mentioned the Rio-Vidic partnership for comparison, his size would fool people into assuming he would be the Vidic, when he would be the Rio.

He is more technical, good on the ball and tactically/positionally aware. More often than not he will disposses the opposition through interceptions and anticipation of how things will play out. If needs be he will put himself about and get a good tackle in, but he is not a bullying hardman or anything remotely like that.

At the start I would expect him to have a torrid time. He won't shy away from a physical game, but that's not what makes him special, so in his early days it is likely people will see a big bloke, expect him to play like a big bloke and conclude he is a bit of a sissy when he doesn't respond that way. It's a different league and the transition will affect the type of defender he is a lot more than the tough-tackling types. How do you read the game when it is completely different from what you are used to?

It's a shame Liverpool are not playing in Europe as that would provide some early dead-rubbers where his attributes would shine through (ala Veron with us). Over the first few months he will likely be a flop. He certainly would have the confidence and intelligence to pull through that, whether his manager, fans and teammates will have the patience is a different matter. Suarez will probably help sort that out, while if he had he gone to City it probably wouldn't work.
 
M'n'M said:
While that quote is so obviously over the top that the journalist has since deleted it from his article (job done some would say as it got him the attention it warranted) I think your accusation of delusion is somewhat misplaced
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Right. So his statement according you is over the top, which is basically what I was hinting at, then you disagree with me after that? Make up your mind...

M'n'M said:
Is it delusional to assume that a player who has recently won young player of the tournament at a top international event while playing for the eventual winners (who incidentally are a better team than the mighty England or if you use FIFA as your bible they are certainly comparable at 4th & 5th) and being a regular in the team which has won the honours already posted above, is as good as or has as much "potential" as Phil Jones - the former Blackburn player with a mighty impressive list of domestic honours and international caps?
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What is delusional rather is to claim he is ''twice the player'' that Phil Jones is. Just because he comes from Uraguay and was voted top young player at a Copa America. He hasn't done anything to prove it.

M'n'M said:
While I admit that Phil Jones will turn out to be a top top player, the suggestion that even the idea Coates will turn out to be as good or better than Phil Jones is delusional is RAWKish in the extreme.
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No one made any such claim. Rather we have claimed ( or ratehr I claimed) the statement of that journalist was plain delusional. Coates isn't twice the player Jones is. Rather I'd rate him as a player with similar potential. That could lead him to legend or Phil Babb status. The same way Jones could either be the next Rio or the next Prunnier for us.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Babel was as talented as Nani.

Until Liverpool got hold of him.
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Was he, though? I only saw him at Liverpool but he didn't seem to ever possess the kind of ability Nani has. He had loads of pace and on the odd occasion would do something great on the ball but not on Nani's level from what I can remember.

Also, I guess the other relevant question would be whether this Coates chap, if he does indeed have that kind of incredible potential, has a maturity already beyond his years like Smalling and Jones seem to have. With Smalling, you really can't tell half the time whether he's a youngster breaking through or a 30 year old Veteran. He's that composed and assured.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Right. So his statement according you is over the top, which is basically what I was hinting at, then you disagree with me after that? Make up your mind...

What is delusional rather is to claim he is ''twice the player'' that Phil Jones is. Just because he comes from Uraguay and was voted top young player at a Copa America. He hasn't done anything to prove it.

No one made any such claim. Rather we have claimed ( or ratehr I claimed) the statement of that journalist was plain delusional. Coates isn't twice the player Jones is. Rather I'd rate him as a player with similar potential. That could lead him to legend or Phil Babb status. The same way Jones could either be the next Rio or the next Prunnier for us.
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After seeing Phil Jones in 5-6 matches - I can hardly imagine anyone being a more talented defender than him. His performance against Spurs was so good that I would be scared if he wasn't our player
 
Babel was touted as the next big thing coming out of Ajax. I thought it was quite a coup on Liverpool's part to sign him, but it seems they messed up his development completely.

As for Coates, the thing going against him is how few South American defensive player have succeeded in England. But he's young, and has time to develop, provided they get it right this time.
 
Babel was supposed to be the next Ronaldo.
Dani Pecheco was going to be the next Messi
Laurri De Valle was going to be the next Fowler
Ngog the next Anelka.
...

So yeah. I'm not too concerned. Kenny won't even play this fella for a year (with Carragher a permanent fixture and both Agger and Skertle still around).

He'll go the same way Insua and that other argie defender they have gone...out the door and quietly into the night.
 
Never saw that kind of potential in Babel (Nani), but from the little I've seen of him Coates will be an excellent signing for Liverpool and become first choice.

I'm not worried about it, just dissappointed Valencia didnt sign him when they were linked with him at the beginning of the Copa.
 
antohan said:
Bollocks, I'm going to be in two minds about Liverpool now. Suarez was bad enough, now this kid. Even if I'm a Peñarol fan and by definition shouldn't like Nacional players... Hope they do well, Suarez scores, Coates gets MOTM, but Pool just about manage to draw all games :)
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:nono: Presuming by your profile you're a United fan, sort it out.
 
apparently he's a cheaper, latino alternative to Mario Cöatse from Borussia
 
Fantatastic, hopefully he'll turn out to be a good Carragher replacement. Just found the teamsheet from last season on 12 sep 2010 against Birmingham:

Reina
Johnson Skrtel Carragher Konchesky
Rodríguez Leiva Poulsen Jovanovic
Gerrard (c)
Torres

Substitutes
Jones Meireles Agger Pacheco Kyrgiakos Babel Ngog

What a shocker of a squad! No wonder we were relegation fodder. From them this lot have now left (loan / sold):

Jones, Poulsen(soon), Pacheco, Kryiagos, Babel, Konchesky, Jovanovic, Ngog(soon) and Torres. The crap left are Cole and Degen.

That's one hell of a flush we installed!! :D
 
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