Sean Goss

khoazany said:
We will need a hell of an injury crisis for the trio I mentioned to get a chance though.Anyway I hope that means they will go on loan early.
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If they're good enough they'll get their chance, eventually. If not, they won't.

I think you're looking for issues which aren't there. Like I said, the coaches will have a far better handle on who is/isn't first team quality than any of us and Van Gaal will be listening to their opinions on all of our younger players. It seems crazy to conclude that a manager with his track record of youth development is making hasty, poorly thought out decisions about any of our youngsters.
 
khoazany said:
He promised to bring a lot more youngsters but never mind.Actually the rest were told that they are not up to his mark.Would be curious myself to see what's the criteria that Sean has but the rest don't.Hopefully not the left foot thingy again.
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LvG has some odd quirks in his gallop.

Goss may be this season's Blackett - a player habitual reserve team watchers didn't rate too highly, but in whom Van Gaal discerned some virtue invisible to others.

Not a big deal though. We got the big stuff right in the last few days.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If they're good enough they'll get their chance, eventually. If not, they won't.

I think you're looking for issues which aren't there. Like I said, the coaches will have a far better handle on who is/isn't first team quality than any of us and Van Gaal will be listening to their opinions on all of our younger players. It seems crazy to conclude that a manager with his track record of youth development is making hasty, poorly thought out decisions about any of our youngsters.
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If that makes you feel confident then so it be.Not the first time that LVG made a weird decision and most of them didn't come off.I don't think any of them are the talents that we have to get into the first team at all cost (i.e "special talents") but this has Blackett written all over again (except for Goss being a better talent).People at Carrington I know are pretty confused by the decision as well.I hope LVG will be proven right but I only trust what I see.
 
khoazany said:
If that makes you feel confident then so it be.Not the first time that LVG made a weird decision and most of them didn't come off.I don't think any of them are the talents that we have to get into the first team at all cost (i.e "special talents") but this has Blackett written all over again (except for Goss being a better talent).People at Carrington I know is pretty confused by the decision as well.I hope LVG will be proven right but I only trust what I see.
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I just think there's a certain breed of fan who get far too emotionally invested in reserve/underage players when the harsh reality is that almost none of them will make it anywhere near good enough for first team. I used to be a bit like that myself. I remember being gutted when we cut David Jones loose. I personally doubt Blackett will have a long career at United, nor do I think the players his presence has squeezed out will be missed. For whatever reason, he was given a bit more of a chance than other, highly rated kids and chances are that decision was better informed than any you'd read on here (or in whatever twitter chat goes on about the same subject) I'm sure the decision to bring Goss along on tour was similarly rational, whether or not that rationale is obvious to the casual observer.
 
He must have done something good to be going on tour with that packed midfield. I had doubts even Pereira might get a game there and he's been long overdue.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I just think there's a certain breed of fan who get far too emotionally invested in reserve/underage players when the harsh reality is that almost none of them will make it anywhere near good enough for first team. I used to be a bit like that myself. I remember being gutted when we cut David Jones loose. I personally doubt Blackett will have a long career at United, nor do I think the players his presence has squeezed out will be missed. For whatever reason, he was given a bit more of a chance than other, highly rated kids and chances are that decision was better informed than any you'd read on here (or in whatever twitter chat goes on about the same subject) I'm sure the decision to bring Goss along on tour was similarly rational, whether or not that rationale is obvious to the casual observer.
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Well obviously it's very hard generally for academy graduates to make it with the first team but wrong decisions won't help it either.More informed decisions are not always correct decisions, as seen in Blackett's case (not that a "correct" decision will result in another youngster making the grade).To put it straight, I have no confidence in LVG in making right decisions consistently in terms of which youth should be given chances out of the "not special" ones, just like how Fergie made a lot of shit buys over the years despite obviously more "informed" than us about how good those players were.It might not really impact the first team but it's unfair for the better youngsters and might lose us a potential first teamer or two from the academies which are this club's tradition.
 
khoazany said:
Well obviously it's very hard generally for academy graduates to make it with the first team but wrong decisions won't help it either.More informed decisions are not always correct decisions, as seen in Blackett's case (not that a "correct" decision will result in another youngster making the grade).To put it straight, I have no confidence in LVG in making right decisions consistently in terms of which youth should be given chances out of the "not special" ones, just like how Fergie made a lot of shit buys over the years despite obviously more "informed" than us about how good those players were.It might not really impact the first team but it's unfair for the better youngsters.
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Like I said, that's bit of an absurd stance to take when you consider his track record as a manager.

Re Fergie's "shit buys". Turns out he wasn't infallible. No manager is. But each and every one of those purchases will have had some sort of logic behind them and based on a far deeper knowledge of the players concerned than any keyboard managers posting on here.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Like I said, that's bit of an absurd stance to take when you consider his track record as a manager.
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People will get old.You saw that with SAF.Obviously I still hope that I'm wrong and he's right but my head is thinking otherwise.Guess we'll wait and see.
 
khoazany said:
He promised to bring a lot more youngsters but never mind.Actually the rest were told that they are not up to his mark.Would be curious myself to see what's the criteria that Sean has but the rest don't.Hopefully not the left foot thingy again.
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The players who didnt make it were really told they weren't upto the mark? ouch!
 
The standard of U21 football is simply too low to get a sense of whether a player's strengths may be of value at PL level. LVG gets to see young players up against his first team squad in training.

Watching U18 or U21 football tells you who stands out at that age level.
 
khoazany said:
If that makes you feel confident then so it be.Not the first time that LVG made a weird decision and most of them didn't come off.I don't think any of them are the talents that we have to get into the first team at all cost (i.e "special talents") but this has Blackett written all over again (except for Goss being a better talent).People at Carrington I know are pretty confused by the decision as well.I hope LVG will be proven right but I only trust what I see.
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Why would they be confused? Lets be honest here, there's very little reason to take youngsters on pre-season except maybe to show the world we still have an academy and give 1-2 exceptional youngsters the opportunity and the experience. Its a small bonus.

The most important thing in pre-season is getting our senior players fit and scoring some commercial revenue, expanding our brand. The fans are paying hundreds of dollars to watch the first team play, not the kids. Maybe it sounds harsh but thats the truth innit? Having said that, I do enjoying seeing the kids get these opportunities in preseason. Blackett earned himself a spot on the squad on the back of his performances last preseason.
 
Loublaze said:
Why would they be confused? Lets be honest here, there's very little reason to take youngsters on pre-season except maybe to show the world we still have an academy and give 1-2 exceptional youngsters the opportunity and the experience. Its a small bonus.

The most important thing in pre-season is getting our senior players fit and scoring some commercial revenue, expanding our brand. The fans are paying hundreds of dollars to watch the first team play, not the kids. Maybe it sounds harsh but thats the truth innit? Having said that, I do enjoying seeing the kids get these opportunities in preseason. Blackett earned himself a spot on the squad on the back of his performances last preseason.
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Because words have been widely spread that some of the other youngsters will get the chance but that didn't come off.One youngster even signed the contract because of that.

I'm not criticising LVG or the club for not bringing a truckload of kids if you read my post carefully.I'm fine with only 1-2 if they're the right ones.I was expressing my worry about LVG's decision making.And no need for reiteration about the purpose of pre-season.
 
Goss is interesting pick but maybe LVG likes to have another elegant player like Carrick in midfield. Goss is certainly more talented than Blackett. If he didn't miss so many games due to his injuries he would be on par with someone like Ben Pearson. Good luck to him
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
He must have done something good to be going on tour with that packed midfield. I had doubts even Pereira might get a game there and he's been long overdue.
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Everyone will get a game on tour. We will completely change our team at half time.
 
Offside said:
Everyone will get a game on tour. We will completely change our team at half time.
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There's a total of 360 minutes on offer and Van Gaal said he plans to get every key first team player 180 minutes of game time so not sure how everyone on the tour party can play significantly.
 
Loublaze said:
Why would they be confused? Lets be honest here, there's very little reason to take youngsters on pre-season except maybe to show the world we still have an academy and give 1-2 exceptional youngsters the opportunity and the experience. Its a small bonus.

The most important thing in pre-season is getting our senior players fit and scoring some commercial revenue, expanding our brand. The fans are paying hundreds of dollars to watch the first team play, not the kids. Maybe it sounds harsh but thats the truth innit? Having said that, I do enjoying seeing the kids get these opportunities in preseason. Blackett earned himself a spot on the squad on the back of his performances last preseason.
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Exactly any tour squad is going to be made up of the first team with youngsters plugging gaps, there was no way we were ever going to take as many youngsters as some people thought because the squad would have been way to big and there just isn't enough playing time to go round.

Goss is obviously rated higher by LVG than so e of the other youngsters but the likelyhood is that with the new signings not many are going to get a look in next season anyway unless they really stand out or there is a jury crisis which is going to be the case going forward no matter who our manager is.
 
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I think whats gone against Pearson and Rothwell is that to get the best out of them the team has to play in a certain style and they both need to be played in a certain position with Pearson only really showing his best form as a holding midfielder and Rothwell at his best in a free role with the ball being moved very quickly and players moving very quickly around him. For the holding role in the tour squad we have Carrick, Blind, Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger and for the number 10/somewhat free role we have Lingard, Pereira, Fellaini, Januzaj, Mata, Herrera and Rooney who would all be ahead for playing time so its unlikely either player would get any more than a few minutes playing. Both players have already played senior football and been around senior training so its probably more important that they try to sort out loan deals and get pre season games under their belt so they can get off to a good start if they do go on loan. Goss I think has a bit more flexibility than either of the others having played cb, lb, dm, cm and lm at one time or another so is probably more likely to get time on the pitch and can also be useful for different training situations. He's also more likely to benefit from being around the first team training since he missed a lot of time with injuries and is a year younger than the other 2 and has never been involved in senior football. He's also unlikely to go on loan and is more likely to play under 21 football so doesn't need match fitness as badly as the other 2 do. Of course all of this could be completely wrong but this is my take on things.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
There's a total of 360 minutes on offer and Van Gaal said he plans to get every key first team player 180 minutes of game time so not sure how everyone on the tour party can play significantly.
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He said every player for first 2 games will get 45 minute each IIRC. then some players will get 60 for next 2 games.

Atleast that's what he said whether he sticks with it or not is another matter.
 
What are peoples thoughts on Goss getting minutes as a CB? With Rojo out, maybe thats why Goss got the nod? He would have immense passing range for a CB and should be up to scratch strength/height wise. Have never really been impressed by his actual defending though as a CM. Great to see him get a chance regardless!
 
khoazany said:
He promised to bring a lot more youngsters but never mind.Actually the rest were told that they are not up to his mark.Would be curious myself to see what's the criteria that Sean has but the rest don't.Hopefully not the left foot thingy again.
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Meaning? They have been told that it is the end of the road or that they need to work harder?
 
Insanity said:
Meaning? They have been told that it is the end of the road or that they need to work harder?
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Not up to his mark to feature on this pre-season.Imagine that would be the end of the road for Varela and co.Obviously Gribbin etc still have plenty of times.
 
He's got the best youtube single-game every touch videos of any of our reserves, but I stopped watching the actual games so really can't comment on more than that. But watch them if you're bored. He looks like he has that extra bit of composure you want a CM to have.
 
khoazany said:
Not up to his mark to feature on this pre-season.Imagine that would be the end of the road for Varela and co.Obviously Gribbin etc still have plenty of times.
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I really don't care about Varela but I will be a little disappointed if that is the verdict on Harrop, Pearson and Rothwell. Thought they will get at least a chance to showcase themselves during the pre-season. Hopefully, they'll have good loans sorted, get regular football, improve and bring themselves back into the reckoning for the next pre-season.
 
khoazany said:
Not up to his mark to feature on this pre-season.Imagine that would be the end of the road for Varela and co.Obviously Gribbin etc still have plenty of times.
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LVG has always been harsh(Well a bit of an arsehole) with younger players. Didn't the first he meet Pique(Who was about 14 at the time)he pushed him over and said he wasn't tough enough.
NoPace said:
He's got the best youtube single-game every touch videos of any of our reserves, but I stopped watching the actual games so really can't comment on more than that. But watch them if you're bored. He looks like he has that extra bit of composure you want a CM to have.
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Struggle a bit in the U21's but he is quality.
 
Insanity said:
I really don't care about Varela but I will be a little disappointed if that is the verdict on Harrop, Pearson and Rothwell. Thought they will get at least a chance to showcase themselves during the pre-season. Hopefully, they'll have good loans sorted, get regular football, improve and bring themselves back into the reckoning for the next pre-season.
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Only my personal feeling but I reckon it would be very hard to change LVG's mind once he has made up his mind about something.Hope they look at Thorpe's case and try to sort themselves a loan/permanent move asap.
 
khoazany said:
Only my personal feeling but I reckon it would be very hard to change LVG's mind once he has made up his mind about something.Hope they look at Thorpe's case and try to sort themselves a loan/permanent move asap.
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Why would you hope the best U21s at the club you support all leave asap? You've got very strange priorities.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Why would you hope the best U21s at the club you support all leave asap? You've got very strange priorities.
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Because I want the best for their careers having watched them for a few years.If the manager doesn't fancy you even for pre-season why not move to a side when you're trusted to play football and build your career up?If one of them turn out to be a Matic United can always buy them back.Not saying they definitely should all seek for moves but I think it's an option.
 
khoazany said:
Only my personal feeling but I reckon it would be very hard to change LVG's mind once he has made up his mind about something.Hope they look at Thorpe's case and try to sort themselves a loan/permanent move asap.
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LVG is correct though, they aren't good enough at this time and they will need to go on loan and change his opinion but chances are they will never get a chance in the first team because there is too much competition.
 
khoazany said:
Because I want the best for their careers having watched them for a few years.If the manager doesn't fancy you even for pre-season why not move to a side when you're trusted to play football and build your career up?If one of them turn out to be a Matic United can always buy them back.Not saying they definitely should all seek for moves but I think it's an option.
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So if one of them went instead of Goss, would you be hoping he leaves? Maybe they could have gone instead of Pereira? Presumably you'd be rooting for him to move to another club in that scenario?

Out of interest, do you consider yourself a Manchester United fan? Or a fan of the individual players at the reserve/academy? The whole idea of a United fan actively hoping our best young players leave because of a minor snub in pre-season blows my mind tbh.
 
khoazany said:
Only my personal feeling but I reckon it would be very hard to change LVG's mind once he has made up his mind about something.Hope they look at Thorpe's case and try to sort themselves a loan/permanent move asap.
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Yeah, no point staying here and stagnating if you are getting overlooked for younger, sometimes less talented, players.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
So if one of them went instead of Goss, would you be hoping he leaves? Maybe they could have gone instead of Pereira? Presumably you'd be rooting for him to move to another club in that scenario?

Out of interest, do you consider yourself a Manchester United fan? Or a fan of the individual players at the reserve/academy? The whole idea of a United fan actively hoping our best young players leave because of a minor snub in pre-season blows my mind tbh.
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So if you're a Manchester United fan you'll hope for your best young players to stay at the club just for the sake of them still being United players?Until they're too old to be considered "youth prospects" and too late for them to build a good career they deserve?Would it benefit the club or any party?It's not like I'm rooting for them to come to one of our rivals.I have no idea why you considered this idea to be mind-blowing, it's not like their departure will impact the first team or anything.We've too many cashes to spend on transfers now that no talent can't be replaced unless you're one of the best in the world.

Pereira and Goss are both younger than Pearson/Rothwell and there's no chance that Pereira would be snubbed.
 
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I liked Goss when we first got him but lost touch with the youth scene as of late. I remember him being a very elegant player, plays with a straight back and with seemingly extra time on the ball. Looking forward to see what he can do, he must be excited.
 
From what I have seen with Barcelona B and French youth level, the best youth players aren't necessarily the best candidates for the professional or high end football, we fans can't just translate the performances in youth competition and consider them more ready for professional football than their less impressive teammates.
 
Haven't seen Goss play yet, but will definitely follow his minutes (if any) during the pre-season tour. Came on to the forum to see what opinions are on him, but it seems to be very lukewarm.

I think there should be more optimism around here. Maybe LVG does see something that we don't. 90% of the United fans didn't think Carrick met the criteria of a Roy Keane replacement. However, he is still arguably united best midfielder (regardless of the new acquisitions). This is mostly because Carrick can implement a manager's instructions probably better than many other more gifted players. Goss may have similar qualities and therefore may be a better bet in the long term.

I am just happy that he gets to experience playing with the first team to start his 'make or break season'. If he does not become a part of the first team this season, then most probably he will be loaned out the next (and sold thereafter).
 
Anirudh said:
I am just happy that he gets to experience playing with the first team to start his 'make or break season'. If he does not become a part of the first team this season, then most probably he will be loaned out the next (and sold thereafter).
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He's still 19 so it's definitely not his make or break season. But yeah, LVG sees something in him so lets see how the kid does.
 
TheCorkman said:
What are peoples thoughts on Goss getting minutes as a CB? With Rojo out, maybe thats why Goss got the nod? He would have immense passing range for a CB and should be up to scratch strength/height wise. Have never really been impressed by his actual defending though as a CM. Great to see him get a chance regardless!
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he's too tidy for CB, it would be like playing Carrick there but Carrick has got experience.. I'd like to see him as LCM
 
TheCorkman said:
What are peoples thoughts on Goss getting minutes as a CB? With Rojo out, maybe thats why Goss got the nod? He would have immense passing range for a CB and should be up to scratch strength/height wise. Have never really been impressed by his actual defending though as a CM. Great to see him get a chance regardless!
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Not really. He's got pretty tall but he's slender, with no real physical presence or aerial ability.

To my eye he's one of those players who can really only play in his best position and nowhere else. And oddly, that position is the one we've just bought two new players for on top of Carrick and Blind. Possibly LVG saw his goal against Leicester and thinks he can play as more of an AM, but I don't much fancy him there compared to the deeper, controlling role.
 
Brightonian said:
Not really. He's got pretty tall but he's slender, with no real physical presence or aerial ability.

To my eye he's one of those players who can really only play in his best position and nowhere else. And oddly, that position is the one we've just bought two new players for on top of Carrick and Blind. Possibly LVG saw his goal against Leicester and thinks he can play as more of an AM, but I don't much fancy him there compared to the deeper, controlling role.
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Morgan/Carrick/Goss Bastian/Herrera/Goss
Mata/Januzaj/Lingard Herrera/Fellani/Lingard Young/Depay/Lingard
Rooney/Wilson/Fellani

Goss would still get minutes that way with Blind at LB.Pre-season I mean.
 
SoCross said:
He's still 19 so it's definitely not his make or break season. But yeah, LVG sees something in him so lets see how the kid does.
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I guess he turns 20 in october, so he has another season. But my point was that, if he has to be considered one of the players that can make the step up to the first team, then this season (and maybe the next) are his opportunity. If he is not in the first team squad in the next 18 months, he will probably be shipped out and then sold like most youngsters in the academy/reserves that go on club tours.
 
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