But that's kind of the point, is it not? Real and City have invested wisely and therefore have proper backups. We don't.
Scott McTominay | Transfer discussion not performance discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Then just invest some of the money we'll get. I get it it we're thin, but at the same time McTominay is not a viable option in the starting XI. He's depth for the sake of it - we're fecked every time Casemiro is out. Personally, I'd have tried to change the system against Arsenal rather than sticking McTominays dead weight in there as a like for like replacement.
I'm sure we can get someone for a fraction of the price to add what McTominay does.
On number 5 you are writing paragraphs based on an 'if', so much for your understanding! The way I see it l, even if we are not in buying mode we should have a dossier on players that can make the grade here, already be in contact with their people to know what it would take to bring them here so that when an opportunity comes our way we can act.
Its quite simple really, we know McTominay is limited and we cant trust him to deputize for Casemiro who cant play 90 minutes every three days so already we should be on the look out for potential upgrades so no need to scout a player in a few days, we should be knowing exactly who can come in and having done some groundwork in the background just in case. Its called being proactive.
The way you give people making decisions in our club a long leash is admirable but a bit naive, I expect more. So if someone comes in with a £40m bid for Maguire we turn it down because we'd need to scout for his replacement? And you wonder why we are in the red?
What? Because he needs them to cope with the number of games we have?
That's an odd take. If we can replace them in the Summer they'll be gone but it's laughable to suggest we'd be better off if the club thinned out an already thin squad without consulting the manager.
He is trying without any plan. We saw it against Arsenal, he was not able to defend the passing lanes, kept too much distance to his opponent, was too passive. His passing is sub United lvl. Yes he is a worker, he has a good distance shot, but he was the weakest link in our defense. Would be a good player for a midtable team, which defends with 10 men. So sell him and REPLACE him with some talent we could use.
While what you're saying about McTominay is true, it's not necessarily the right course of action to be rushing around finding a quick fix in January if it means the replacement we bring in isn't the right player either. I'd be happy enough to feck McTominay off this window but if the manager is reluctant to let him leave mid-season then it's understandable why he stays for another few months.
If the same conversation is being had in the summer then that's a problem. There are actually a few players who this same logic applies to - we need to be ruthless with Wan-Bissaka, Maguire, McTominay and van de Beek once the summer window opens.
But managers are always going to be like that. Ole cost us the best part of £10m on Lingard to keep him around without any intention of using him (apart from the unlikeliest of scenarios).
But the club itself has to be far more aggressive and look well beyond what this current manager wants. It's hypocritical to constantly preach about time and patience and long term thinking when it comes to manager, but then not excersise that thinking for the rest of the club itself.
Unless we can promote a youngster or get a loan in, McTominay can't go anywhere this window.
Wish we would do a foreign loan for a CDM because better than watching him try and cover Casa again. Personally I hoped we could sell him now but knew we wouldn't
Your suggestion for this window, I take it, is that we sell McTominay to the Saudis, and then retroactively scout , tap up and negotiate a player that would be a good investment and ready to change clubs in January.
I think it’ss a good idea. We just get us a time Machine for the McTom money, it’s fairly cheap, a used DeLorean and a few weeks wages for a Physics Professor and some material costs, and then we go back to august 2019 to replace the United acouts already, and simultaneously start to destabilize Tchouameni and sell United to him; then jump to December 2022 to smuggle
some Barca undies into his locker and tip off Lopez about it, and when we ride into his office at January 1st, he’ll hand is Tchouameni on a free. That’s much better idea than to pay a desperate 60m€ to pry Dombele away from Spurs with a week left of the window, or sticking with Scott to avoid having Charlie Savage as our cover for the remainder of the season.
This one is a different scenario to the Lingard one. We had a bloated squad with an assortment of attacking midfielders when Lingard was here, although I'm still a bit skeptical about the way that one went down. I'm not sure Lingard was as keen to leave as he made out, I reckon he was hanging on too until the January window where Rangnick came in.
McTominay might be shit but he makes up one of about four senior midfielders we have available to us, with a massively busy schedule ahead. You can't undermine a manager in a situation like that when it could potentially cost you points and create a problem. On recruitment it's a different situation and that should be done in conjunction with the manager, but it's dangerous to start selling players under his nose - especially during the season.
We should have been looking for a backup DM for this window in case of Casa suspension or worst still injury but didn't bother
I'm with you. If there's an over the odds offer for McTominay you take it and find a Swiss, Portuguese or Senegalese DM who can kick people there's always a bunch of them around.
Yeah poor planning on our part
I’d rather recall Hannibal from loan
I am still checking the train timetable for now, but I'm thinking it will be a very very busy muppet summer
Goodness I hope so
Yeah he would offer more
I think we will see McTominay and Maguire being sold in the summer. We actually need to get a return on some of these players for FFP rules.
Then there's Elanga, Telles, Bailly, Jones, Tuanzebe as well.
Then there's Elanga, Telles, Bailly, Jones, Tuanzebe as well.
No chance with Jones, is he out of contract? If he still has a contract he is staying. By this point, Jones probably knows his career as a professional footballer is done and is now just taking the money. I don't blame him for sticking around to be honest.
Of course, I understand the logic of waiting until the summer to sell Scott. We need numbers. He should have been sold last summer, we shouldn’t even be in this position now anyway.
That said, it is worth noting that we cannot pick and choose when the market moves. We have had grand plans about how we will sell certain players over the years which has not gone how we wanted. There has been no interest. At least not at this perfect moment we have chosen, and the best we can manage are rubbish loan deals. Either that or our deadwood conveniently get injured just before the window.
Scott has no future here, and if the money comes in NOW, I'd be tempted. I’d have rather Newcastle picked up the phone in May, but we can’t dictate, and they have picked it up now. By May, they probably move to someone else, and we’re stuck saying ‘United hope to bring in a new midfielder but only if they can offload Scott McTominay’.
We need numbers now, but we need them to be of use too. People have pointed out that Scott is one of only 4, but I can’t see us much worse off if we moved Martinez, Lindelöf, Savage or whoever (recall Hannibal) to 4th choice for a few months. McTominay struggles to do the basics well on and off the ball, so is keeping him worth risking losing 30m+?
That said, it is worth noting that we cannot pick and choose when the market moves. We have had grand plans about how we will sell certain players over the years which has not gone how we wanted. There has been no interest. At least not at this perfect moment we have chosen, and the best we can manage are rubbish loan deals. Either that or our deadwood conveniently get injured just before the window.
Scott has no future here, and if the money comes in NOW, I'd be tempted. I’d have rather Newcastle picked up the phone in May, but we can’t dictate, and they have picked it up now. By May, they probably move to someone else, and we’re stuck saying ‘United hope to bring in a new midfielder but only if they can offload Scott McTominay’.
We need numbers now, but we need them to be of use too. People have pointed out that Scott is one of only 4, but I can’t see us much worse off if we moved Martinez, Lindelöf, Savage or whoever (recall Hannibal) to 4th choice for a few months. McTominay struggles to do the basics well on and off the ball, so is keeping him worth risking losing 30m+?
Exactly. People seem to miss this point wildly - even when it comes to buying players.
Again, you are completely misunderstanding the situation. The club is going through a sale. Do you get that? So clearly there is no money, regardless of the dossiers they have on players.
Also, regards to McT, you are saying his value is the highest it will be? Can you show me evidence of a bid of £40m? Can you show me any reliable sources that have put a bid or anything? Or are you basing it on some rumours that Newcastle are interested?
I am sure Ten Hag knows the issues at the club, where we need to improve, also it is obvious, he sees those issues. You may think he can't see the issues but there is clear evidence he does.
Our starting 2 CM's are new, which means to me he knows there was a midfield problem, highlighted it and addressed it in the summer. FDJ was highlighted to be a player we wanted in the summer, which again shows that Ten Hag knows this was an issue.
This is not football manager where you get rid of 10 players and add 10 players in one window, it just does not happen unfortunately.
So you are having a go at me for writing paragraphs based on "if" statements, yet you continue to finish your post with an "if"
Well, show me the team that has bid £40m for Maguire, so far I seen loan deals, which is pointless for us. Maguire and McT are different, if a serious bid of £40m comes in for Maguire, we would sell because we have CB cover, with CM we dont.
Can you show me a source that says any club has bid £30m + for McTominay?
No.
The very premise of this thread is about a wealthy club being interested in buying him, and the conversation is regarding that, so I don’t need to.
So there is no offer, £30m is a made up figure by you?
We are assuming Newcastle will offer £30m?
I've got concerns about his playing time as well after that performance on Sunday but probably not the same as his.
Yes.
And why the feck are you even posting in this thread if it is simply a case of there being ‘no offer’? We are obviously discussing the hypothesis of a Newcastle offer. While we are discussing this hypothesis, we are working on the assumption that this offer os greater than £1.
Oh I see, a poster can only post on threads if its approved content by you, sorry I didnt read that memo.
So there is a difference if we sell him for £1 or £30m, unless you see that as the same thing.
This is your quote btw " but we can’t dictate, and they have picked it up now", which means Newcastle have made an offer? Or as per making things up?
You want Savage or Lindelof to play CDM, I can count on my fingers how many first team appearances they have in CDM.
Obviously, you know more than Ten Hag because he sees them in training and decides Scott is better in that position than them.
Also, if Ten Hag thought that, he would have made the change, how do I know this? Evidence. Ten Hag does not rate Maguire, this has been shown when he has moved a LB into CB. But obviously armchair managers know more.
Have no idea what your first point is about. I can tell you what mine is about though - the horse has already bolted from ‘so where is the proof of a Newcastle offer’. Proof of an offer is not needed for this conversation, this conversation is based upon reports of their willingness to make one. So me now saying we should sell him bears no relevance to my being able to provide proof of an offer. It is obviously based upon the indication in the OP coming to fruition.
And yes, there’s a financial difference between £1 and £30m. Well done.
Next point - no, it does NOT mean Newcastle have made an offer. Again, what we are actually discussing is a report that Newcastle are prepared to make an offer if we encourage them to do so. If you feel there is no point in discussing any of this until Manchester United announce that Newcastle United have made a formal offer for Scott McTominay - then what are you bothering for?
And obviously, I don’t care how many games Lindelöf, Savage or Martinez have played at DM, or what Scott does in training. I can only speak to what I see him do in matches, and it takes very little to improve upon it. And what I want United to do has no relation on what Ten Hag chooses to do, that’s another irrelevant comparison. Ten Hag can make his own forum and discuss his ideas there. I’ll stay on this one where we discuss ours.
Ohh, now you are a mind reader knowing that Newcastle want to make an offer for McTominay.
Okay, so you want to sell a player to an imaginary offer based on your feelings? Saying we should sell him has no relevance to offer?
To sell someone, there must be an offer to accept, the only other option is to pay him out of his contract.
So, training has no relevance to what team the manager should pick? because you can see more in 90 mins than a manager who sees said players in training all week?
All you are saying here is, you want to play football manager but discuss your football manager choices on a forum. You can discuss football manager ideas on another forum too.
Saying Ten Hag and training has no relevance when he is the manager of the club is a joke.
Again why come with hyperbole? By your submission we know that ETH is aware that Scot is not fit for purpose even for a squad role, which is important considering the run of fixtures we have and the need to rest our key players. My view is that replacing a squad player shouldnt be difficult, its not difficult if you are proactive.
All the nonsense you are spewing are just excuses, an organization should always be prepared and if they are not then questions need to be asked. Its all about anticipation, he has lost his place and clubs could be interested in him since the manager isn't so what can we replace him with if someone comes in for him? Those are discussions Murtough should be having with his recruitment team and the manager.
If then the desired players aren't available then fair enough. The reason why I said its an opportunity to sell him at this juncture is that we all know that January and Summer markets are different, a team willing to pay thirty million for him now may not even want him come June but we need to SELL him which is I demanded that we should always be proactive so that we are ready to take advantage of any situation that might arise.
And do stop asking for evidence on a forum where 90% of transfer discussions are based on speculation by the media. This whole thread is based on the speculation that Newcastle might be interested.
I dont see what is an excuse? First bolded item, you are kind of stating the facts, we know there is a problem in the organisation, which is why, I repeat again, the Glazers are looking to sell. The questions of the organisation have been asked and asked and asked over numerous years.
Murtough can have 1000000 conversations with his recruitment team, if there is no money, its not going to happen. Its like me going to a Ferrari showroom and talking about my next car, when in reality I cant afford it. We have no money.
So for us to even have money we need to make a sale, which means there has to be an offer to accept, deal done, then we can look at even negotiating with someone else.
If we sell him for £10m it makes no sense because the quality we need is not just a McTominay improvement, the midfielder has to be an Eriksen improvement and Eriksen takes the McT role.
I am sure Ten Hag is not looking for players because they are cheap and will be another McTominay or Fred. Whats the point then.
On the last bit, well then you cant say go look for a midfielder for £30m in Jan then because we dont have that money.
Jones is out of contract in the summer, so is Tuanzebe so they are definitely gone. As far as I know Bailly, Telles and Williams still have a year to run, all should be moved on even if we only get £5m each. Our squad planning has been terrible for some time. DVB is into his last year in the summer but I doubt anyone will make an offer, maybe Ajax on loan.
Yeah seems the club are missing it too
We are in this thread which was started on a report about Newcastle's interest in signing him. So this discussion, which has no impact on what the club will do, is based on the assumption that there indeed is interest in him and an offer could have come if they had a positive response from us.
We cant talk about an upgrade to Eriksen who is doing an acceptable job in spite of his physical limitations. We have a plan for handling his stamina issues by having Fred share the load with him. It is Casemiro's alternate that we have to worry about and should plan for because a long term injury to him and we are done for the season. You know this and the club should know this.
My irritation, again basing on the assumption that there indeed is interest from Newcastle, is on us refusing to move him on for a more useful player because we can't replace him. In this window a suitable midfielder or two will move clubs and there will be threads asking about where we were when Brighton or so and so were picking this player up. It has happened for far too long and for far too often for my liking.
The club being for sale is just another excuse, Scot out for Midfielder x in isn't a deal breaker and the club is being run as a going concern until it changes ownership.
His contract is till June-2025 I believe
Ditto, 200%
Your inability to comprehend how to debate a hypothetical scenario is hilarious!
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