Scott McTominay | Transfer discussion not performance discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Kostov said:
You question McT’s IQ while having no problem with Fred’s who had this clown obsession on taking a shot from 20 meters every semi decent chance even knowing he is terrible long shot taker?

Better trait positioning and movement? Christ man, they are both limited footballers, but praising his movement and praising his tempo? The guy is a terrible passer 90% of the time how can he set tempo? By running around? What tempo like at the weekend when we had 30% possession? Yes he is useful when we are an underdog to fill out a place and hope for the best. MCT actually has more uses while the same goes on record for him. And in what world is Fred better on the ball than the other, Scott is a much better dribler and carries the ball better.
Click to expand...
McT….is that you? First on your tempo point - read what I wrote. I said he can “keep” tempo…not “set” it. That means that when we get into a passing rhythm he doesn’t slow things down and keeps progressing the ball - he does that consistently.

As a number 8, Fred and McT offer different things. Both carry the ball well. McT is more physical while Fred is more energetic. Neither is a great passer. McT has arguably more of a goal threat while Fred is much much better in tight spaces. Fred is quite simply excellent off the ball more often than not. McT not so much.

However, McTs basic limitations in terms of movement, positioning, control and vision are hugely detrimental to a midfield seeking to retain possession - be that when dominating and trying to break down a low block or when under a high press and trying to play out of trouble/relieve pressure.

Fred is excellent at those basics and therefore he can be a cog in a better team… he is capable of playing with better players and being a good foil to play off and play through. McT can’t. He is just an extremely limited footballer with physical traits that would make him a solid performer in a mid table side that don’t have designs on ball retention.

As I see it, we only need one squad player as an 8 considering we have Eriksen/Bruno/the young lads for that single number 8 spot. Therefore I would keep Fred every day of the week and upgrade McT for a CDM in the summer.
 
captaincantona said:
No plan. Keep McT till the summer. Then replace him with a younger holding midfielder who will be happy to learn from one of the best.

We obviously don’t want to get rid of him without a more suitable replacement
Click to expand...
 
Fred pisses all over him, it's not even close. Fred's a bit of a loose cannon, but technically he's on a different planet to McTominay and his workrate and pressing are levels above too.
 
captaincantona said:
McT….is that you? First on your tempo point - read what I wrote. I said he can “keep” tempo…not “set” it. That means that when we get into a passing rhythm he doesn’t slow things down and keeps progressing the ball - he does that consistently.

As a number 8, Fred and McT offer different things. Both carry the ball well. McT is more physical while Fred is more energetic. Neither is a great passer. McT has arguably more of a goal threat while Fred is much much better in tight spaces. Fred is quite simply excellent off the ball more often than not. McT not so much.

However, McTs basic limitations in terms of movement, positioning, control and vision are hugely detrimental to a midfield seeking to retain possession - be that when dominating and trying to break down a low block or when under a high press and trying to play out of trouble/relieve pressure.

Fred is excellent at those basics and therefore he can be a cog in a better team… he is capable of playing with better players and being a good foil to play off and play through. McT can’t. He is just an extremely limited footballer with physical traits that would make him a solid performer in a mid table side that don’t have designs on ball retention.

As I see it, we only need one squad player as an 8 considering we have Eriksen/Bruno/the young lads for that single number 8 spot. Therefore I would keep Fred every day of the week and upgrade McT for a CDM in the summer.
Click to expand...
In order to set or keep tempo you need to be at least a clean passer of the ball. Fred is the fecking opposite. Do you even wander how the least technical CM of the Real Madrid trio that we bought looks like Pirlo compared to those 2? It’s because they are a mess, and Fred more so than the other, when he is not in his 2 out of 10 good games every pass is either overhit or 1m behind the receiver. That’s the basics that both lack, and everything that stands for McT stands for Fred, however when Fred is off his game he is an abomination.

As I said you are here spouting crap about McT after Fred having his best game of the season and it’s January, he was absolute crap up till the World Cup and you should have come and explained how he does the basics excellently in November.
 
Shakesey said:
You remind me of that frame of mind I used to be in when I played FM. I would sign for a team and try to flog everyone for a tenth of their worth just to see the backs of them.

I'd feel good about it too
Click to expand...
My post was meant to be sarcastic. I tried to hide the white text in the end :D
 
This thread seems to have become a Fred vs McT debate. All I'm gonna say on the matter is: Would McT get anywhere near the Brazil squad?
 
Skills said:
Fred pisses all over him, it's not even close. Fred's a bit of a loose cannon, but technically he's on a different planet to McTominay and his workrate and pressing are levels above too.
Click to expand...
Yep. Fred has the tendency for a brain fart, bit there's a reason City were interested in him.
 
Sorry, but if by now you can't see how poor of a player he is you really shouldn't be bothering with this sport. Do something else with your time.
 
we just lost a midfielder for the next game. it was probably a straight red. why are we desperate to give away players when we are in a fight for top 4
 
Borussia Teeth said:
This thread seems to have become a Fred vs McT debate. All I'm gonna say on the matter is: Would McT get anywhere near the Brazil squad?
Click to expand...
You mean the Brazilian side that embarrassed themselves at the WC? Probably yeah if he had a Brazilian passport, after all Fred and Antony were called up.
 
Skills said:
Fred pisses all over him, it's not even close. Fred's a bit of a loose cannon, but technically he's on a different planet to McTominay and his workrate and pressing are levels above too.
Click to expand...
What planet is this? Is it in the Delusion Galaxy by any way?
 
Borussia Teeth said:
This thread seems to have become a Fred vs McT debate. All I'm gonna say on the matter is: Would McT get anywhere near the Brazil squad?
Click to expand...

Nope!

He's English but chose to play for Scotland because he had no chance of ever playing for England. Scotland often play him at centre back as they don't rate him as a midfielder.

I've said this many times, but he's the sort of player you'd expect to see at Burnley. He's far too limited a player to play for a top Premier League club.
 
MegadrivePerson said:
Nope!

He's English but chose to play for Scotland because he had no chance of ever playing for England. Scotland often play him at centre back as they don't rate him as a midfielder.

I've said this many times, but he's the sort of player you'd expect to see at Burnley. He's far too limited a player to play for a top Premier League club.
Click to expand...

Side note but you clearly don't always watch us play. It's hardly because Clarke doesn't rate him. It's because in games where we are going to be up against good offensive teams he plays three at the back and McT has the qualities to provide cover and strength and tends to distribute it well from there, McT has done well for Scotland in a back three. Whenever the back three isn't chosen / other defenders are available he plays in midfield. Clarke loves him and he allows McGregor or McGinn to do the more offensive work.
 
Vault Dweller said:
Side note but you clearly don't always watch us play. It's hardly because Clarke doesn't rate him. It's because in games where we are going to be up against good offensive teams he plays three at the back and McT has the qualities to provide cover and strength and tends to distribute it well from there, McT has done well for Scotland in a back three. Whenever the back three isn't chosen / other defenders are available he plays in midfield. Clarke loves him and he allows McGregor or McGinn to do the more offensive work.
Click to expand...
There is a big difference to being a ball playing CB and a CDM or CM that takes the ball off the back four which is the position McT is vying for in this Utd side.

As a CB he is facing one way most of the time…in a back 3 his area of responsibility is limited. His distribution options are straightforward and the press is predictable. He also has more time to control the ball before being pressed and clearing the ball is acceptable. A midfielder can’t just hoof the ball away for fear of losing it.

As a CM for United he needs to have his head on a swivel for 90 minutes and know where his next pass is before he receives the ball - he doesn’t have that in his locker. Fact. Most crucially, his natural awareness of where to be to recieve the ball and where to be to be of value to them team is just missing.At 27, it’s doubtful that he is going to learn that now. His only attribute for Utd as a midfielder is his physicality out of possession and that is simply not enough to warrant a squad place because the drop of in quality when he plays is significant.
 
captaincantona said:
There is a big difference to being a ball playing CB and a CDM or CM that takes the ball off the back four which is the position McT is vying for in this Utd side.

As a CB he is facing one way most of the time…in a back 3 his area of responsibility is limited. His distribution options are straightforward and the press is predictable. He also has more time to control the ball before being pressed and clearing the ball is acceptable. A midfielder can’t just hoof the ball away for fear of losing it.

As a CM for United he needs to have his head on a swivel for 90 minutes and know where his next pass is before he receives the ball - he doesn’t have that in his locker. Fact. Most crucially, his natural awareness of where to be to recieve the ball and where to be to be of value to them team is just missing.At 27, it’s doubtful that he is going to learn that now. His only attribute for Utd as a midfielder is his physicality out of possession and that is simply not enough to warrant a squad place because the drop of in quality when he plays is significant.
Click to expand...

Obviously, I'm not disputing that. The poster said McT plays in defence for Scotland because they don't rate him as a midfielder, that's what I was addressing because it's not accurate in my view.
 
georgipep said:
And other than media clickbait, what evidence of such consideration have you seen?
Click to expand...

Hehe, well no, but in that case nothing remains to discuss here. I take it as understood that we're discussing what we'd think about a possible development here.
 
justsomebloke said:
Hehe, well no, but in that case nothing remains to discuss here. I take it as understood that we're discussing what we'd think about a possible development here.
Click to expand...
True, I'm just a bit cautious when it comes to passing judgement about our players based on media talk.
 
Not sure why this has turned into Mc vs Fred. Both are utterly useless in possession and should be sold or moved on. They are to midfield what Lingard was to the number 10 role.

The one thing Fred has is that ability to "do a job" off the ball like vs City, which McTominay does not have the energy or tenacity for. That is why Fred is above him in the pecking order.
 
Bebestation said:
All I’m saying is that I don’t believe Mctominay being this unhappy guy for playing a bit part role for Manchester United. He has always seemed happy and energetic when playing for us.
Click to expand...
It does seem a bit strange after only half a season. I would have expected he'd happily stay as a squad player until the end of next season before wanting to move on. But I guess it depends on just how much game time he expects to get. If it's true he wants to leave already, it tells me he doesn't expect to get much time on the pitch at all.
 
Could ETH have told McT that his game time is going to be limited this season and in a way indicated to McT that he could move McT on in the summer?
If there was any such indication from the club, then I can see why McT wants to leave now.
 
If Newcastle want him, he should seize it with both hands imo. A club very much on the up that will pay him above market rate (you'd presume), where he's more likely to start. Seems a no-brainer. I'd be surprised if Newcastle weren't aiming higher though.
 
Personally I think we've had the best form from McTomminay and at 26/27 I can't see a greater deal of improvement in his game.
Time to cash in, if the opportunity arises.
 
hobbers said:
Not sure why this has turned into Mc vs Fred. Both are utterly useless in possession and should be sold or moved on. They are to midfield what Lingard was to the number 10 role.

The one thing Fred has is that ability to "do a job" off the ball like vs City, which McTominay does not have the energy or tenacity for. That is why Fred is above him in the pecking order.
Click to expand...

Yea I agree with this. With Mctominay the team balance is just not right, his reading of the game is sub par and in posession he goes into hiding. Definition of average and gives away stupid fouls even when there are other team mates to cover. With his stature he should be a handful in the box but he rarely is. If we were mid table he would be a good squad option, but next season we must have intentions of challenging. Mctominay needs to go, we can get far better even as a rotation option.

Fred has far better positioning both offensively and defensively and higher intensity. He just has those brain fart moments where he makes some really odd desisions or messes up a simple pass and opens us for the counter, he also takes some terrible shots. This is usually when he has time on the ball, when he plays with instinct he is better.

Both are not good enough and have had more than enough time to prove it. Casemiro has shown how low our standards had fallen with these two. Need to get rid of both.
 
I’ve no doubt if he went to a mid table club and played week after week he’ll start to look like a competent and consistent footballer, like Andreas Pereira does now. But he’s not good enough for us so please get rid.

Can’t see it being Newcastle but someone will want him hopefully.
 
It’s just sad to see not only no development, but actual regression in his game.
 
Today last time see Ten Hag pick him. Brutal lads. Just a fit lad that runs around alot with shite technical ability.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.