[red4ever 79]

For some reason I just watched the game again and after watching his display he might actually have been worse than Lindelof. The worst defensive midfield display I think I’ve ever seen. He was absolute garbage.
I just don’t know about this guy. Has his uses as a squadie and being a B2B but never good enough to be a DM.

He is a squad player at the most. Can come on in a game to provide legs, can prove useful when we want to rest players in cup competitions. He is and never will good enough to be a starter for us.

 

[thepolice123]

Disagree with all these "Hes not a [insert position]" regarding our midfield players. Playing as a DM is not radically different from playing as a CM, it just means you wont push as high up when attacking.

If you passing, vision, awareness and tactical nous is not good enough for DM its not good enough for CM either. You cant tailor positions for each and every player, most of all because you play new teams every week so you have to be able to adapt.

Obviously the more talented midfielders will be able play multiple positions in midfield. The limited ones fulfill more niche and specific role. McTominay belongs to the latter.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The bar for our academy products is so low all you have to do is run around a bit and show passion and the fanbase will love you. Shocking player, should be nowhere near our squad, let alone our starting eleven.

Sentiment FC. I don't care if he's from our academy, he's a shit footballer, I don't care if he works hard, he's a shit footballer. This guy wouldn't start for any other top 10 team, no chance. Liverpool have Thiago, City have Fernandinho, Chelsea have Kante, we have this Championship standard don.

Constantly protected from criticism because he's British. Sick of it. He's shit. It's about time people start judging players honestly. This guy gets a free pass time and time and time again.

"he was one of our best players before lockdown" No he wasn't, he was injured in December. When he was regularly starting we were fecking 12th in the league. He has had countless bad games, the majority of his games he's shit, yet nobody ever calls him out solely because of where he comes from. Pogba, Fred and Matic have been hounded for far better performances than this guy has ever given. It's a joke.

 

[hobbers]

Tunnicliffe but taller.

 

[SAFMUTD]

He's useful when we're the underdogs, he has passion and stamina and is the kind of player that wont stop running the whole game.

Now after saying that, he shouldn't start any game we play against lesser opposition. Cant pass, doesnt have creativity, basically doesnt offers anything that help us to break down a defense. If he wasnt from the academy he'd be rather a lot different by our fan base.

 

[ti vu]

Disagree with all these "Hes not a [insert position]" regarding our midfield players. Playing as a DM is not radically different from playing as a CM, it just means you wont push as high up when attacking.

If you passing, vision, awareness and tactical nous is not good enough for DM its not good enough for CM either. You cant tailor positions for each and every player, most of all because you play new teams every week so you have to be able to adapt.

Then explain Redondo role.

Player who so is limited in other aspect but damn great in the role speciality like Makelele, doesn't mean DM role meant not to push up when attacking. DM role is about anchoring the midfield shape, prioritize to provide cover for defense over attacking. Stevie Me was still a very good CM, but he could never cut for the DM role due to his lack of defensive awareness, positional discipline, and patience. Similarly Lampard. So it's not like every midfielder can transit to deeper role. McTominay may be overrated by people getting away with his good games, but can play a role in midfield other than being the sole DM for the team.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I like his working ethics and energy in midfield, always keep running and defending and helping out the attack too. But as a midfielder, he can't pass and has zero creativity, and he can't play DM role too with poor positioning, that's a big problem.

He will be useful bench player for us though.

 

[shahzy]

The bar for our academy products is so low all you have to do is run around a bit and show passion and the fanbase will love you.

Been saying this exact sentiment for years. The amount of dross that has been coddled on here over the years ive been reading is fascinating. All because of 'trying hard'

 

[Bobcat]

Then explain Redondo role.

Player who so is limited in other aspect but damn great in the role speciality like Makelele, doesn't mean DM role meant not to push up when attacking. DM role is about anchoring the midfield shape, prioritize to provide cover for defense over attacking. Stevie Me was still a very good CM, but he could never cut for the DM role due to his lack of defensive awareness, positional discipline, and patience. Similarly Lampard. So it's not like every midfielder can transit to deeper role. McTominay may be overrated by people getting away with his good games, but can play a role in midfield other than being the sole DM for the team.

Makelele is a unique case, many people still call it the "Makelele role" and he was an incredibly well rounded midfielder. Gerrard and Lampard was also more offensive CM's, someone you ideally wanted near goal because of their good shooting so it would be a waste to play them deeper. Take Scholes for example when he got back from retirement, he was a fecking awful tackler and for from the best defensive CM that has ever played, but he was still immense in that role and almost single handedly saved our season.

Besides, 4231 as we are playing is not a formation with any pure DM's, they are deeper than Bruno sure, but they will still operate in the center of the pitch mostly

 

[Bobcat]

Really? Can't believe what I am reading.

Passing , Vision, Awareness, Tactical nouse doesn't always come together. Infact how many players can you mention with all of the those skills?

Most good midfielders have them to some extent. In fact i'd say Herrera was a perfect example as such a player. Not a highlight reel player by any means and his output in terms of goals and assists was pretty bad, but he kept things single and kept things ticking in the engine room which is vastly underrated imo.

And passing in this context means just simply passing and moving with purpose rather than being able to hit the odd hollywood pass. Again something Herrera was excellent at.

 

[Bobcat]

Obviously the more talented midfielders will be able play multiple positions in midfield. The limited ones fulfill more niche and specific role. McTominay belongs to the latter.

But is he asked to play as a DM though? I find that hard the believe in our current 4231 system because that would leave our midfield incredibly isolated if each of out three midfielders are asked to operate in different latitudes of the pitch. Whether you call the "2" in 4231 CM or DM is just semantics imo.

 

[Skills]

But is he asked to play as a DM though? I find that hard the believe in our current 4231 system because that would leave our midfield incredibly isolated if each of out three midfielders are asked to operate in different latitudes of the pitch. Whether you call the "2" in 4231 CM or DM is just semantics imo.

Why wouldn't he be?

Who in their right mind would ask Scott McTominay to bomb forward, and leave Paul Pogba behind to cover for him?

 

[Bobcat]

Why wouldn't he be?

Who in their right mind would ask Scott McTominay to bomb forward, and leave Paul Pogba behind to cover for him?

He did bomb forward though at times. He was in and around their box on more than one occasion (video in this thread as an example)

 

[ti vu]

Makelele is a unique case, many people still call it the "Makelele role" and he was an incredibly well rounded midfielder. Gerrard and Lampard was also more offensive CM's, someone you ideally wanted near goal because of their good shooting so it would be a waste to play them deeper. Take Scholes for example when he got back from retirement, he was a fecking awful tackler and for from the best defensive CM that has ever played, but he was still immense in that role and almost single handedly saved our season.

Besides, 4231 as we are playing is not a formation with any pure DM's, they are deeper than Bruno sure, but they will still operate in the center of the pitch mostly

Makelele is not well rounded at all. He is tidy at short passes, and keeping possesion, but not exactly doing anything else. Kante looks like Yaya Toure when comparing to Makelele.

We still lost PL to City when Scholes came back. Scholes played the deep play making role along with Carrick who started to hit his prime where he was really good at interception. Scholes couldn't hold it all by himself. Even then that midfield was prone against runners and central area dribblers. Then we had those "defensive" wingers in Welbeck, Valencia, Young where their contribution was geared toward defensive aspect rather than actual output in attacking creativity. Then Rooney energy as CF/SS.

Compare to our set up, Pogba ain't providing similar defensive quality to either Scholes or Carrick to his partner. Rashford may match Welbeck industriousness, however Young and Valencia defensive ability ain't matched (they could transit to fullback role in later career).

Heatmap and average position showed, Pogba position was higher up the pitch closer to Bruno (Bruno was deeper than #10 position should be), while McTominay stayed very close to the CBs. Eye checking also confirmed. DM we're talking is like a fill in third CB. So the point is McTominay was burdened as sole DM to cover for our defense.

 

[Stack]

I wonder if McTominay is becoming our new Fletcher in terms of fans writing him off so early

 

[yamo123x]

There are several worse than him still at the club.

He is a squad player and is quite versatile.
That’s about it, meh

 

[Alemar]

There are several worse than him still at the club.

But they don’t usually start matches...
McTominay is a mediocre player and we start him - that is the problem.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

His biggest issue is his passion & hard work can only hide his massive technical flaws for so long. If you’re at full back or on the wing you’re technical deficiencies can be hidden well. If you’re in the centre of midfield yet have terrible passing & literally zero creativity then you’re gonna look pretty bad.

I’ve never been fooled by the “blood & thunder” & homegrown shit that the caf adore so much, I’ve always seen him as an extremely limited footballer who shouldn’t even be at the club.

If he was foreign there is no way he would get the constant free passes for shit performances from our fans. Im sorry but there’s just no chance.

 

[dablem_10]

how is mcTominay versatile, when only one role suits him? or you think he can play as central back and fullback somehow?

 

[romufc]

There is one thing that is clear, McTominay cannot play the CDM role. He has no idea how to position himself, cannot move the ball into our creative players.

What does he offer this team?

I can only see his role as a utility player, when we need to reinforce our midfield against the top sides. He can play well in a defensive system where you are told to sit back and chase the ball, once we have possession he is totally lost.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I wonder if McTominay is becoming our new Fletcher in terms of fans writing him off so early

Possibly. Although Fletcher had a much better pedigree, based on expectations from his underage career. McT has already done better than many expected. Although there’s definitely a similarity in that people are jumping all over every poor performance from a player in his early 20s in a position you wouldn’t expect him to master for another 2 or 3 years.

 

[Stack]

Possibly. Although Fletcher had a much better pedigree, based on expectations from his underage career. McT has already done better than many expected. Although there’s definitely a similarity in that people are jumping all over every poor performance from a player in his early 20s in a position you wouldn’t expect him to master for another 2 or 3 years.

I sometimes wonder if people in reality just want a team of players already of world class players despite our long history of developing players. McTominay might not end up at the level we want but we so often right players off too early

 

[11101]

He needs to fit into a role. Either be the tempo setter and creator with the ball, or master the positional play and defensive side off it. At the moment he is neither and is only good when somebody else does those things and he can just chase down the ball and quickly give it to somebody else nearby. That has it's uses but he's only going to be good for about 10 games a season and easily replaceable if that's all he ever does.

Technically i don't think he will ever be great with the ball but he still has plenty of time to learn better positioning, especially in a team with Carrick and Matic around.

 

[Adisa]

Like so many at this club who scream 'not good enough'.
Having said that, He's not a DM, not even close. Playing where he is useful or don't play him at all.

 

[Bobcat]

Makelele is not well rounded at all. He is tidy at short passes, and keeping possesion, but not exactly doing anything else. Kante looks like Yaya Toure when comparing to Makelele.

We still lost PL to City when Scholes came back. Scholes played the deep play making role along with Carrick who started to hit his prime where he was really good at interception. Scholes couldn't hold it all by himself. Even then that midfield was prone against runners and central area dribblers. Then we had those "defensive" wingers in Welbeck, Valencia, Young where their contribution was geared toward defensive aspect rather than actual output in attacking creativity. Then Rooney energy as CF/SS.

Compare to our set up, Pogba ain't providing similar defensive quality to either Scholes or Carrick to his partner. Rashford may match Welbeck industriousness, however Young and Valencia defensive ability ain't matched (they could transit to fullback role in later career).

Heatmap and average position showed, Pogba position was higher up the pitch closer to Bruno (Bruno was deeper than #10 position should be), while McTominay stayed very close to the CBs. Eye checking also confirmed. DM we're talking is like a fill in third CB. So the point is McTominay was burdened as sole DM to cover for our defense.

For a CM whos main responsibility is not creating, i'd say Makelele is very well rounded. In 2011/12 was that infamous season where City won by GD in the last game of the season, but we looked much better after Scholes came back, 2012/13 i would say he was instrumental in us winning the league.

To be clear, i am not claiming there are no differences between a good DM and a good CM, but the two positions are not that different and there is a lot of overlap in terms of what skills a good DM/CM needs. And its not just Scott, its been a trend with our midfielders the last couple of years that unless they play a very specific role any poor outing gets written off as them being played out of position or being partnered with players that are a bad fit

 

[ti vu]

For a CM whos main responsibility is not creating, i'd say Makelele is very well rounded. In 2011/12 was that infamous season where City won by GD in the last game of the season, but we looked much better after Scholes came back, 2012/13 i would say he was instrumental in us winning the league.

To be clear, i am not claiming there are no differences between a good DM and a good CM, but the two positions are not that different and there is a lot of overlap in terms of what skills a good DM/CM needs. And its not just Scott, its been a trend with our midfielders the last couple of years that unless they play a very specific role any poor outing gets written off as them being played out of position or being partnered with players that are a bad fit

12/13 Scholes barely played... I would argue Tom Cleverley contributed more in 12-13

Fair point about the rest in this post.

 

[EwanI Ted]

I sometimes wonder if people in reality just want a team of players already of world class players despite our long history of developing players. McTominay might not end up at the level we want but we so often right players off too early

Its weird, given the history we have with young players at this club. Most players need to be approaching 100 senior appearances before you can really assess what they're going to be like in their senior career, yet we have fans writing him off when he's barely at half that number.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Its weird, given the history we have with young players at this club. Most players need to be approaching 100 senior appearances before you can really assess what they're going to be like in their senior career, yet we have fans writing him off when he's barely at half that number.

You need to see 100 appearances to see Blackett, McNair, CBJ etc. aren’t good enough? Of course you don’t. You don’t need to give McTominay 100 appearances to see his passing offers nothing. You don’t need 100 matches to see his positioning and awareness as a holding player are downright dreadful. It’s the top level, you don’t hand out 100 appearances because you can’t assess basic shit.

Given our history with young players you’ll see countless of them with 1-20 appearances before being sold as clearly not good enough. Weird how you’ve missed all this history where we in fact don’t need to hand out 100 appearances to every Tom, dick and Harry out of the academy to say, hey this lad is fairly shit on the ball. Some lads have it, some don’t. Scott doesn’t have much.

 

[Idxomer]

Its weird, given the history we have with young players at this club. Most players need to be approaching 100 senior appearances before you can really assess what they're going to be like in their senior career, yet we have fans writing him off when he's barely at half that number.

That's his 4th season with the 1st team and yes he's approaching 100 games as he's already at 85, so a 100 appearances gonna happen this season.

Having the likes of Fletcher and Park under the best manager ever and who was an expert at maximizing the talents of average players -not that those two were average- is hugely different than having McTominay who is a below-average talent under Ole. People need to stop those false equivalences with things under SAF, you just can't compare anymore.

 

[EwanI Ted]

You need to see 100 appearances to see Blackett, McNair, CBJ etc. aren’t good enough? Of course you don’t. You don’t need to give McTominay 100 appearances to see his passing offers nothing. You don’t need 100 matches to see his positioning and awareness as a holding player are downright dreadful. It’s the top level, you don’t hand out 100 appearances because you can’t assess basic shit.

Given our history with young players you’ll see countless of them with 1-20 appearances before being sold as clearly not good enough. Weird how you’ve missed all this history where we in fact don’t need to hand out 100 appearances to every Tom, dick and Harry out of the academy to say, hey this lad is fairly shit on the ball. Some lads have it, some don’t. Scott doesn’t have much.

Yes, some players are not cut out for top level football at any point in their careers, well done for pointing that out. I'm talking about those players where it isn't immediately clear. McTominay was solid but unremarkable before last season. Then last season he was really good alongside Fred until his injury, but poor whenever he featured after his return. If you don't need to see any more than that to judge a player, cool. For me the jury's still out. But Im certainly willing him to succeed.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He had a spell of looking relatively competent last season but that spell is being blown out of proportion by some on here. He was better than I expected but my bar for him is ridiculously low. He wouldn't get near a squad of any other top team which is a sad indictment of how far we've fallen.

 

[thomas porter]

He is a squad player at the most. Can come on in a game to provide legs, can prove useful when we want to rest players in cup competitions. He is and never will good enough to be a starter for us.

110% this

 

[Rozay]

‘I’m not his biggest fan, far from it, but...’ - I don’t think he player particularly badly, at least in the context of him being Scott McTominay and not being Paul Pogba or Thiago etc. I think he did well enough.

Pogba beside him (I think, it seemed he was pushed further forward against Palace) was extremely bad, and looked so far off the pace. Probably his poorest game I’ve seen. He should have gotten some minutes against Luton I think, as he doesn’t look ready for the season yet. That in itself isn’t a huge criticism, he didn’t exactly spend his time off partying abroad, and was off sick for a while, but whatever the reason, he looked slow and passing well off.

 

[RedNed77]

Decent game today. Only works if you play him and Fred together though. They dovetail well like Mata and Herrera used to.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Not everyone needs to be our player who starts every game, feel like Scott is an excellent squad player to have!

 

[#07]

McTominay is the Scottish Fellaini, isn't he? Big lad, good with the aerials. Never a defensive midfielder although he can throw his weight around the middle of the park pretty well. A valuable asset in the squad even if he's not got the brush head's chest!

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Not everyone needs to be our player who starts every game, feel like Scott is an excellent squad player to have!

Exactly. Always gives his best, and he is improving.

 

[Idxomer]

Wasn't good, nice header for the goal though.

 

[RedNed77]

Not everyone needs to be our player who starts every game, feel like Scott is an excellent squad player to have!

I feel like we have two midfields if we’re playing 433. Matic with Bruno in front then one of VdB or Pogba beside Bruno.

Then Fred and McTominay with one of Fernandes or VdB in front.

 

[Ace of Spades]

He is good when he has to break play and stifle the opposition. Just don't make him the deepest player in a midfield, as he can't build play from the back.