saivet
Full Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2013
- Messages
- 26,699
Typical toxic scumbags you find lurking over here..
Top performance is a massive stretch.
Typical toxic scumbags you find lurking over here..
I disagree, he runs a lot but his acceleration is quite subpar, so is his positioning, which are the main attributes of a midfielder or any outfield player. If he was at least a good passer but again he showed he's really terrible one, can't string basic passes together and mostly just turns and pass back or play very basic pass. We couldn't control the midfield and neither could create anything of note. You just knew the ball coming to him or VdB it will go to our fullback and then back to our back 4 ad passing in this "u" shape, really "vintage" Sheffield United of last season.Yeah I don't get the criticism for Scott either. I like him a lot. He is very dynamic and he tries to be adventurous with his passing, even though his execution isn't always there. I don't fault a player for trying a forward pass. Better than sitting deep and passing it sideways all the time.
Most importantly, he plays for the club and not himself. Those type of players are incredibly hard to find these days.
Would Barcelona, Real, Mancity ever consider having a player like that? You know your answer. Same way Fellaini was not a good fit for us, neither is Scott. Right now he's where he is because he played so many games due to timing when he was available and his manager Mourinho being a fan, so he will naturally get better but imagine giving that game time to a more talented player.He's not going to be a Scholes type midfielder ever, so using that as a bench mark is harsh.
His qualities are:
- Great tackling
- Great work rate
- Great finishing around the box
- Can drive with the ball
His weaknesses are:
- Passing
Of course lacking higher tier passing as a midfielder is crux, but he has enough other qualities to be a good long term player for us. I'm hopefully he'll add to his passing as he matures as he's still young.
He has a tendency of pushing players down when chasing them, I don't understand why he thinks he can get away with that. Silly fouls. Other than that, I think he did OK.
If playing as CB will he stop pushing and giving away fouls? If so easy he should stop now, while playing midfield!Noticed this too, its almost like he tackles with his hands.
For what it's worth, I actually think he'd be a better centre back than midfielder.
He's not going to be a Scholes type midfielder ever, so using that as a bench mark is harsh.
His qualities are:
- Great tackling
- Great work rate
- Great finishing around the box
- Can drive with the ball
His weaknesses are:
- Passing
Of course lacking higher tier passing as a midfielder is crux, but he has enough other qualities to be a good long term player for us. I'm hopefully he'll add to his passing as he matures as he's still young.
He has a tendency of pushing players down when chasing them, I don't understand why he thinks he can get away with that. Silly fouls. Other than that, I think he did OK.
Typical toxic scumbags you find lurking over here..
I find this whole ‘would City or Liverpool have him’ argument so tiring. Just several years ago, Fabian Delph found himself playing regularly for City. All clubs need squad players who play a role. I don’t think McTominay should be starting regularly, but I love having him in the squad.Would Barcelona, Real, Mancity ever consider having a player like that? You know your answer. Same way Fellaini was not a good fit for us, neither is Scott. Right now he's where he is because he played so many games due to timing when he was available and his manager Mourinho being a fan, so he will naturally get better but imagine giving that game time to a more talented player.
If McTominay wasn't Scottish he wouldn't get as much gametime and neither would even midtable clubs ask for his signature. Simple as that.
Yeah I don't get the criticism for Scott either. I like him a lot. He is very dynamic and he tries to be adventurous with his passing, even though his execution isn't always there. I don't fault a player for trying a forward pass. Better than sitting deep and passing it sideways all the time.
Most importantly, he plays for the club and not himself. Those type of players are incredibly hard to find these days.
Would Barcelona, Real, Mancity ever consider having a player like that? You know your answer. Same way Fellaini was not a good fit for us, neither is Scott. Right now he's where he is because he played so many games due to timing when he was available and his manager Mourinho being a fan, so he will naturally get better but imagine giving that game time to a more talented player.
If McTominay wasn't Scottish he wouldn't get as much gametime and neither would even midtable clubs ask for his signature. Simple as that.
regularly yeah? how many games he played there and where is he playing now? please tell me:-) I keep seeing some comparisons with Fletcher, that is tiring. Fletcher covered more ground, had much superior passing ability spend a lot of time in two-men midfield with slowish Carrick. I understand the concept of squad. If you didn´t notice our b-team is a too huge drop of quality, if you can´t see that we will disagree. Scott is a lucky boy with immense dedication which got him his reward to be in the first team. He´s not exactly a player to be first in the line to sell since there are worse but we should be ready not to feel any sentiment when upgrading our first team palyers and squad palyers as well - that´s all.I find this whole ‘would City or Liverpool have him’ argument so tiring. Just several years ago, Fabian Delph found himself playing regularly for City. All clubs need squad players who play a role. I don’t think McTominay should be starting regularly, but I love having him in the squad.
regularly yeah? how many games he played there and where is he playing now? please tell me:-) I keep seeing some comparisons with Fletcher, that is tiring. Fletcher covered more ground, had much superior passing ability spend a lot of time in two-men midfield with slowish Carrick. I understand the concept of squad. If you didn´t notice our b-team is a too huge drop of quality, if you can´t see that we will disagree. Scott is a lucky boy with immense dedication which got him his reward to be in the first team. He´s not exactly a player to be first in the line to sell since there are worse but we should be ready not to feel any sentiment when upgrading our first team palyers and squad palyers as well - that´s all.
O Shea was a defender and yeah did his job even in the goal hell, Park and Fletcher much better technical abilities while way more dynamic players. That lazy comparison with Fletcher is tiring. Yes we know they are both Scottish! I am not replacing McT just now and I understand what squad player means, but he´s getting too many crucial starts for us (and good for him!) I think ideally a player of his level should be used as more of a fringe player, however we are rebuilding and players like him will inevitably get some gametime. Ideally we will replace him with a better squad player when the time comes.Looks like you have found yourself a choice of teams to support there.
You can talk about would x player ever get into y squad, but forget the principles Manutd is built on.
The Parks, Fletcher, Oshea type of players have all done well at this club.
Do you we would play Zinchenko as our LB?
Do you think Manutd will have a sergi Roberto at RB?
And he miss two mpasses andeveryone talks about it.. please do me a favour and rewatch a game against Aston Villa. He misplaced almost every pass even the most basic passes. I wouldn´t mind if he was an expansive passer in advanced positions like you mention with Bruno. But he´s not, can´t do the basics sometimes.
not just henderson, you can add milner, wijnaldum, keita to that list, all midfielders that some on here would rant about for not being the second coming of pirlo with their footballing ability. and yet theyve played key roles in midfield for the most successful team in the world arguably over the last few seasons.
O Shea was a defender and yeah did his job even in the goal hell, Park and Fletcher much better technical abilities while way more dynamic players. That lazy comparison with Fletcher is tiring. Yes we know they are both Scottish! I am not replacing McT just now and I understand what squad player means, but he´s getting too many crucial starts for us (and good for him!) I think ideally a player of his level should be used as more of a fringe player, however we are rebuilding and players like him will inevitably get some gametime. Ideally we will replace him with a better squad player when the time comes.
And he miss two mpasses andeveryone talks about it.. please do me a favour and rewatch a game against Aston Villa. He misplaced almost every pass even the most basic passes. I wouldn´t mind if he was an expansive passer in advanced positions like you mention with Bruno. But he´s not, can´t do the basics sometimes. Ideally a palyer of his technical ability could play as a CB but as a CM he´sliability. You can see some frustration with other players around him when he can´t make an easy pass between the lines or just lose the ball with an easy transition pass. That is frustrating to watch and not that he´s exactly class defensively, being on his heels or too slow to react, outof position. He was given ennough gametime to improve in that department and can´t see that either...
Ant then they got rid, that´s the point.. also Delph was a star player for Villa. Genuinelly looked one of the best midfielders in the league from the bottom teams hence City went for him. I struggle to see McTominay having such impact in any of those teams.Yes, regularly. Other than the times when he was injured, he was playing very regularly.
15/16 - 27 appearances - played most games when fit, missed games due to injury
16/17 - 13 appearances - missed 1/2 the season injured
17/18 - 29 appearances - missed 10 weeks injured.
Now, I have shown you stats that prove he played regularly, why dont you show us that Fletcher covered more ground than McTominay?
If only luck and dedication can get you into a PL team, it requires talent too.
Can he be upgraded? yes, but don't disrespect players saying they are lucky. These players put in hard work in the academy to be able to force themselves into the first team. To call them lucky is just silly.
When you watch the likes of Gundogan and Thiago play in central midfield then you come to watch Mctominay play, you’ll understand why we are taking forever to be great again.
The problem is that even Fletcher and Henderson are significantly better on the ball than McTominay is, let alone Carrick who blows all of them out of the water. Even defensive midfielders need to be good enough on the ball that it isn't an actual weakness. I will say that McTominay has had moments where he's shown enough ability on the ball (I remember being very pleasantly surprised in the early part of last season) but his average game simply isn't good enough. Maybe he can still develop further and I do hope that happens, but he's not that young anymore. He's currently the same age as Fletcher was when he became a key part of our team.This is the kinda thing you'd say when you know absolutely nothing about football.`
I remember the EXACT same criticism aimed at players like Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher when they started in our first team. It took United fans until Carrick was in his final two seasons to go 'oh yeah - he is a good footballer after all'. And I genuinely don't think Fletcher got any praise from the majority of United fans until he was finished playing.
When a footballer's job is to do all of his work OFF THE BALL - which is the job of a deep-lying midfielder like Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Jordan Henderson etc - then folk who only look at the ball when watching a game of football, simply won't see all the good that is done by these type of players.
You are describing like he is Arturo Vidal (prime) and he is not on the same stratosphereHe's not going to be a Scholes type midfielder ever, so using that as a bench mark is harsh.
His qualities are:
- Great tackling
- Great work rate
- Great finishing around the box
- Can drive with the ball
His weaknesses are:
- Passing
Of course lacking higher tier passing as a midfielder is crux, but he has enough other qualities to be a good long term player for us. I'm hopefully he'll add to his passing as he matures as he's still young.
This is the kinda thing you'd say when you know absolutely nothing about football.`
I remember the EXACT same criticism aimed at players like Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher when they started in our first team. It took United fans until Carrick was in his final two seasons to go 'oh yeah - he is a good footballer after all'. And I genuinely don't think Fletcher got any praise from the majority of United fans until he was finished playing.
When a footballer's job is to do all of his work OFF THE BALL - which is the job of a deep-lying midfielder like Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Jordan Henderson etc - then folk who only look at the ball when watching a game of football, simply won't see all the good that is done by these type of players.
The problem is that even Fletcher and Henderson are significantly better on the ball than McTominay is, let alone Carrick who blows all of them out of the water. Even defensive midfielders need to be good enough on the ball that it isn't an actual weakness. I will say that McTominay has had moments where he's shown enough ability on the ball (I remember being very pleasantly surprised in the early part of last season) but his average game simply isn't good enough. Maybe he can still develop further and I do hope that happens, but he's not that young anymore. He's currently the same age as Fletcher was when he became a key part of our team.
His normal midfield partner in Fred is just about the minimum of what we should be looking for in ability when on the ball. McTominay is quite a bit below that.
This is the kinda thing you'd say when you know absolutely nothing about football.`
I remember the EXACT same criticism aimed at players like Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher when they started in our first team. It took United fans until Carrick was in his final two seasons to go 'oh yeah - he is a good footballer after all'. And I genuinely don't think Fletcher got any praise from the majority of United fans until he was finished playing.
When a footballer's job is to do all of his work OFF THE BALL - which is the job of a deep-lying midfielder like Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Jordan Henderson etc - then folk who only look at the ball when watching a game of football, simply won't see all the good that is done by these type of players.
Exactly this.
Carrick was never rated this highly during his playing days, only recently after watching european CDM's do that role do fans appreciate what he did.
Fletcher was never rated by any Manutd fan. Fans who say Fletcher was x,y,z but McTominay isnt. He is 23 playing in a team that is not really winning, whereas the other two played in a well oiled team winning titles, getting into semis of CL.
There is a reason Jose played McTominay and Ole keeps doing so, even if you think Ole is a PE teacher, he has realised Bruno needs to play, Pogba needs to be accommodated, he needs to protect his CB's.
Typical toxic scumbags you find lurking over here..
Please do me a favour and watch it yourself before making such comments. He misplaced every pass? I agree it wasn't his best game but 70 % passing is not great but its not losing the ball every time.
Against City - 97% passing and Bruno was 73% - don't see you saying he lost the ball every time he got it.
Against Leicester- 91% passing and Bruno was 70% and Fred 76% and Pogba 60%
Against Leeds - 86% passing accuracy.
Against City (league) - 88% passing accuracy.
Please stop picking a players bad game as it being a representation of him as a player. Stop with the agendas.
This is the kinda thing you'd say when you know absolutely nothing about football.`
I remember the EXACT same criticism aimed at players like Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher when they started in our first team. It took United fans until Carrick was in his final two seasons to go 'oh yeah - he is a good footballer after all'. And I genuinely don't think Fletcher got any praise from the majority of United fans until he was finished playing.
When a footballer's job is to do all of his work OFF THE BALL - which is the job of a deep-lying midfielder like Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Jordan Henderson etc - then folk who only look at the ball when watching a game of football, simply won't see all the good that is done by these type of players.
You're doing what you're accusing the other poster of doing, cherry picking. McTominay has the lowest pass completion percentage in all comps among our defensive central midfielders (84.8% to Fred's 87.2 and Matic's 90). McTominay also averages only 33.9 passes per appearance in the PL to Fred's 54.6 and Matic's 54. Talk about hiding from the ball. That's something he's often accused of and the stats represent this beautifully. He's better off the ball than on it and its no wonder he struggles in games where the opposition hand us possession
Fletcher was also rated very highly whilst coming through the ranks and it was reported that Fergie wanted to give him his debut at 15.You're doing what you're accusing the other poster of doing, cherry picking. McTominay has the lowest pass completion percentage in all comps among our defensive central midfielders (84.8% to Fred's 87.2 and Matic's 90). McTominay also averages only 33.9 passes per appearance in the PL to Fred's 54.6 and Matic's 54. Talk about hiding from the ball. That's something he's often accused of and the stats represent this beautifully. He's better off the ball than on it and its no wonder he struggles in games where the opposition hand us possession
The players you're comparing McTominay to were in a totally different class at the same age and younger. Carrick joined united as one of the most coveted young English midfielders in the PL. He made his PL debut at 18. Fletcher is also a player with a wider array of attributes than McTominay. All three took their share of criticism from sets of supporters but that's where the similarities end really