He gives me hope at 45 I'll still play for United.
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He's nowhere near United quality. He'll be gone once Jose leaves.
He’s being used to win flick ons from goal kicks like school boy football 
He’s being used to win flick ons from goal kicks like school boy football
And people say he has no uses, he is clearly our Fellaini substitute.
Manager's player of the year
He's Mourinho's pet project youth player, where he's trying to prove a point that he's good with young players. Ironically, putting that effort in for McTominay over the likes of Tuanzabe, TFM or Perreira just makes him look utterly clueless and just reinforces the point he's useless with young players.
The thing is, he isn't good enough at defending either.
I’ve thought this every time he’s played... what does he actually do?
His height is the only reason Jose likes him.
His height is the only reason Jose likes him.
He needs a loan move to show he's good enough to start every game for a Championship side, or even every 2nd game in the Premiership. United have 3 tall players in midfield who'll play ahead of him; otherwise I'd rather see Hererra or Pereira ahead of him.
In his first game or two last season he actually made a good amount of tackles and won the ball. That on top of his okay passing was something.
After those 1 or 2 matches he usually didnt win the ball much at all. So now I'm at the same point as you are. He has a very basic passing game which is fine for a DM but he isnt a ball winner like he was in his first couple of matches. So now he's in the Tom Cleverley boat where he's just a basic passer and thats about all you get from him.
Our “I’m not the Monster who kills kids” player.
Not sure what the end game is here. I mean, I appreciate that young players are not the finished article - but what is the supposed finished article meant to look like here? In the absolute best case scenario of McTomminay fulfilling the potential of all the footballing talent he has, we’d at best be looking at the new Jordan Henderson. You don’t develop those players deliberately, you settle for them when players you hoped would be top players fall short, but are still useful.
It would be pointless to invest years of first team games into a young player on the hope he’ll become a competent squad player at 25. And that’s as much Scott’s talent has to offer from what I see, and he could be substituted for any number of young midfielders I’ve seen in the academy over the years, who probably would have made useful squad players by 25 if we just continued to play them. The likes of David Jones, Ben Pearson, Drinkwater, Tunnicliffe - none of these were ever really United players, and none were worse than McTomminay.
It would be pointless to invest years of first team games into a young player on the hope he’ll become a competent squad player at 25. And that’s as much Scott’s talent has to offer from what I see, and he could be substituted for any number of young midfielders I’ve seen in the academy over the years, who probably would have made useful squad players by 25 if we just continued to play them. The likes of David Jones, Ben Pearson, Drinkwater, Tunnicliffe - none of these were ever really United players, and none were worse than McTomminay.
He'll be gone in a years time.
Lets agree to disagree then. I genuinely am confident with how good he reads the game. He isn't the type who has to make 25 dirty tackles to prove that he doesn't mind getting his hands dirty, but he doesn't mind telling any one, in any game that he isn't going to shrink from that challenge.
More than his ability of the footballer, am completely impressed by his personality, attitude, composure, concentration levels and temperament.
I can only say am hopeful about his ability of a footballer. Of what I saw, I was happy. sure he can do more. in all aspects of the game. But I can not ignore the other things that he already is showing. I dont mind keeping that player. He doesn't hate the ball. He holds possession well in big games and in great areas. He also physically knows how to use his strength in those aspects and while yes he'll get a red or two a season, you need that player. That player if he is 6.4 already, is why you'd think you are unbeatable, when you do.
Brilliant!
The usual go-to rhetoric when attempting to praise a glaringly mediocre footballer is to highlight their attitude and temperament (see McTominay). Players with more ability can often get it in the neck for the latter, with questions raised regarding their maturity and composure (see Pereira), in spite of any real, quantifiable evidence to support it.
McTominay seems like a good lad but he's a mile away from being a United midfielder.
And don't even bother raising Fletcher. He'd have been starting games at 17 if not for injury.
McTominay seems like a good lad but he's a mile away from being a United midfielder.
And don't even bother raising Fletcher. He'd have been starting games at 17 if not for injury.
It makes me laugh almost.
glaringly mediocre, is something you say about some one who has had enough time to show they are glaringly mediocre. How can you say about a player who is 22, who has played one full season in top flight football, and still take yourself seriously enough to say "dont mention fletcher". jesus. what a cringeworthy thought that.
glaringly mediocre, is something you say about some one who has had enough time to show they are glaringly mediocre. How can you say about a player who is 22, who has played one full season in top flight football, and still take yourself seriously enough to say "dont mention fletcher". jesus. what a cringeworthy thought that.
Should we give all academy players a go in the team until they are 25, in order to be able to say if they are any good or not?
I forgot where I said we should start McTominay every game for 60 games for another 3 years.
I mean, what is the point of having an academy, if you dont even use it as an option? we used it as an option. our midfielders got injured at a crunch part of last season, and at a point where we were on a freefall, we went for a "oh well, we have nothing more to lose, might as well field this kid". And while our season, didn't go as we had hoped. the kid still showed fighting spirit and responded to everything that was asked.
Should we discard him because he is not as good as any one we signed? Was he supposed to be?
He doesn't need to play every week for us. He can develop as a footballer just by training with our midfielders, and spending a limited squad role for this season. As long as he doesn't mind doing that, why are we all getting worked up by how he is not xavi and iniesta combined in one? Am really happy that Pereira is way way more talented and skillful on the ball than McTominay. but must all my arguments start with how I should prefer one over the other. I understand its difficult to give kids some time. but what is the point of giving them time if you dont care how they respond. and what about them lessons to learn from watching likes of Fletchers and Lingards develop at different stages of their life.
I am trying not to bash Jose, it's too easy seem like that's all you are doing atm, and only calls in the hounds, but Mctominay is such an easy player for him to hang his 'playing the youth' hat on, in his position he is unlikely to cause too much damage, or draw too much attention to how average he seemingly is.
I just hope he affords this sort of playing to our more talented home grown talents this season.
I just hope he affords this sort of playing to our more talented home grown talents this season.
If Pogba, Fred and Matic start the bulk of games with Herrera and Fellaini getting the bench spots it's going to be a tough for Pereira to get on the bench nevermind McTominay, he shoiuld go on loan to a championship side and see how it goes.
Quite simply, we should use our academy to give chances to the best players in it. We have some kids who, in the academy, have shown that they ‘might’ become stars. Those players are the ones we should have a proper look at to see if they are good enough. McTomminay showed nothing in the academy to be the chosen one to be invested in, nor has he shown enough in the first team.
For example, it would make little sense for Josh Bohui to be in the first team for the next few seasons. I mean, there is little indication that he will be a top player. Same goes for Matt Willock. Why McTomminay over Willock? What has he shown that suggests his name was not drawn from a hat?
By all accounts, the best his defenders have to say about him is that he’s a ‘good boy’, essentially.
He did well in some games last season but unfortunately I just don't think he is good enough for us. I agree he should go on loan.
I don't disagree with your sentiment that more skillful players in youth could be given more patience/time/chance anything really than less skillful.
But at the same time, the fact that some one who out of nowhere, if given a chance, shows temperament to not shrink down to feckall like he did, shouldn't be given a "nope, you aren't beckenbauer today, so no soup for you" either. And temperament, attitude etc are real aspects of football. You can frown at it all you want. but if you really dont take it seriously. you are only going to watch talent fail again and again. because if psychological aspects of football doesn't influence in how you understand about "what makes a footballer" you are gonna miss out on what makes X player be X. what would ronaldo be without psychology eh?
But at the same time, the fact that some one who out of nowhere, if given a chance, shows temperament to not shrink down to feckall like he did, shouldn't be given a "nope, you aren't beckenbauer today, so no soup for you" either. And temperament, attitude etc are real aspects of football. You can frown at it all you want. but if you really dont take it seriously. you are only going to watch talent fail again and again. because if psychological aspects of football doesn't influence in how you understand about "what makes a footballer" you are gonna miss out on what makes X player be X. what would ronaldo be without psychology eh?
Why send him on loan ? He's part of the bloated squad Jose needs to trim so we can get better quality in.
Not as good. So what? What would Alan Smith have been with proper talent to go with his ‘attitude’? A world class striker, that’s what.
The solution to a Ravel Morrison not making it here due to not having the right attitude is not to go to the opposite end with McTomminay, and play him despite him not being talented enough. Ultimately, the kids with both the talent and character will make it at United. Those who lack either one, will not, or at least, should not. Ravel Morrison is in one of those camps, and McTomminay is in the other.
I don’t think there is a rational answer of why McTomminay will get to play for United and Ben Pearson does. It would be easy to answer if it were ‘why did Pogba get into the first team and not Pearson?’. The answer would be because Pogba was much better. I don’t think that can be said about McTomminay in comparison to almost any midfielder from the academy who did not make it here in the last decade or so. Drinkwater wasn’t given chances here. Nothing wrong with his attitude. This is United. McTomminay isn’t more talented than Drinkwater.
Alan Smith was very talented. He went through a bad injury. He could have been a world class striker with the same talent that he had, had he not had that injury. And he could have had Ronaldo(big one) level talent, and still not made it, had he still had same luck with injury. having good attitude helps with overcoming adversity like injuries. but just "talent" can't compete with outright luck.
Also. feck this Mctominay is the last talented shitfeck talk. Dude. I disagree with you, from your first post three pages ago where you just agree with yourself even though Pogue comes and replies to you saying "errrr, but thats like your opinion". Its like it doesn't matter what any one else is going to say here. You'll stay for another 30 pages to come with "mourinho picked him for his size, he is the least talented fecker, no better than drinkwater". feck that. Guess what? he is already better than Matic, Drinkwater, Dier, etc etc. and I wont even mention "to me" either, just like you.
Also. feck this Mctominay is the last talented shitfeck talk. Dude. I disagree with you, from your first post three pages ago where you just agree with yourself even though Pogue comes and replies to you saying "errrr, but thats like your opinion". Its like it doesn't matter what any one else is going to say here. You'll stay for another 30 pages to come with "mourinho picked him for his size, he is the least talented fecker, no better than drinkwater". feck that. Guess what? he is already better than Matic, Drinkwater, Dier, etc etc. and I wont even mention "to me" either, just like you.
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The lad had some class performances last season and how quickly it’s all forgotten because of some insignificant training match... he had a better season than Herrera.
There’s no use for him to go on loan to a championship club, he’ll become a better player just by training with Pogba Matic and Alexis, with world class coaching than a season away in the championship.
The only beneficial loan spells our young players had that I can remember were Evans and Welbeck at Sunderland, in the premier league.
There’s no use for him to go on loan to a championship club, he’ll become a better player just by training with Pogba Matic and Alexis, with world class coaching than a season away in the championship.
The only beneficial loan spells our young players had that I can remember were Evans and Welbeck at Sunderland, in the premier league.
Log off Scott.
Yep, it's really weird. He's young and has a fair bit of potential. Jose clearly trusts him and believes in his ability, which can't be said for a lot of young players!
You’ve spoken an impressive amount of rubbish there.
Again, you need character and talent, not talent alone, which i have said, but you’ve decided you would prefer if I said it a different way.
Alan Smith had a serious injury in his mid-twenties or so, he could never have been a WC striker.
And I don’t know what post you’re referring to, but I couldn’t care less what Pogue said, I’m not obliged to change my mind on things because Pogue disagrees with me. I would hazard a guess that majority of the caf think McTomminay isn’t good enough for Manchester United either, so you can now move on to each poster and tell them exactly what their agenda is here too. Can’t be because he’s average, after all.
He's just another James Wilson in the making. It's great that Jose is giving the youth a chance but at this level, McTominay is just not good enough...yet If he gets more game time than Pereira this season, I will be well and truly confused!
Yeah Alan Smith was never going to become a WC striker, he was very good for Leeds but still a tire below Viduka who wasn’t a Batistuta or Shearer level striker himself.
Lets not kid ourselves, he's shite. Would he start every week for Aston Villa or Derby for example? No, he wouldn't.
Firstly. Feelings are mutual.
secondly. you brought up Alan Smith, completely irrelevantly. Some day soon, I hope you can tell me what I can learn from you mentioning him the way you did, when am talking about why attitude and character also matters in what makes a good player.
again, it doesn't matter what who said. its just you don't care what the opposite side is telling you. Not every one is saying the same thing. except you. who is using one trick to deflect deflect deflect.
People are obviously aware that he is 21 and is not good enough to be starting games for us at this age. yet when Pogue says this whole post of "
That's bollox. He's had some very good games for the United first team already, against PL opposition. That's your indication, right there. Development isn't linear. Loads of kids look amazing at underage level but dire when they start playing senior football. The simple fact that McTominay has coped reasonably well with being fast-tracked into the first team last season puts him ahead of loads of kids that have been in our academy that were destined for great things - according to the redcafe scouting geniuses - but ended up not good enough to play for any PL team, never mind Manchester United.
"
You only respond to first line, and say "Not to me ". Okay then.
Not just him. even 11101 said similar things. they are aware of what they want from him, and what to expect from him. None of the McTominay defenders(as you called them) claim that he is here to stay or going to make it. But nothing wrong in keeping a good young player who has responded very well to first team environment. none of this you care about. and yet you are like "my standards are much higher". Am sorry we are all turning up to post in this thread and wasting your time.
wow - at some of your deluded comments. I mean I bet if you were manager of United we would be fighting relegation because of all players who deserves chance for being good lads like someone mentioned he is nowhere near almost any central midfielder we had in academy in last decade. Most of them had to leave for league 1 sides and fought it all the way to championship and some of them made it to premier league. Was mostly disappointed to see them to leave only for clubs in such low leagues at times. I really wonder when we get rid of McT, where he really goes because I don't see any single quality he could use in Championship, he will even lose his only advantage and that's height/strength. And sorry I also don't agree that he's good positionally, doesn't really read the game that well, that's this boys fans wishful thinking, he often mistimes tackles and well I am actually surprised he hasn't injured himself yet because of that
Yeah because am the one who went to Jose and said "guess what, I want a kid to play now, even if he is just a 6/10. injure all others. and do this or you are fired". and he responds to me.
lol what a joke. get over yourself. Sign a player who is better. sure. we tried to. I've mentioned before that went 40 M for Dier. genuinely would have McTominay over Dier. Not saying, we should prioritize on bring up these kids who can be decent. but. if that happens. no need to say thats a bad thing on its own.
Again. none of anything I say right now, implies that I'd rather suffer with average kids. if you get that impression out of my posts, tough shit.
It's sad to see so many people writing off a young player. Give him time to develop at least lads.
The straw man bullshit about Xavi and iniesta. Who has mentioned either of them. Mention Fletcher and Lingard all you want but at no point has McTominay ever been close to them.
Doesn't hide from the ball? He regularly touches the ball half the amount of our other CMs and makes half the passes. A CM who is at the bottom of the list of touches and passes and half of his CM partners is exactly the definition of hiding from the ball. Although I'll actually be fair and say it isn't hiding, Scott just simply has no clue how to position himself to be free for a pass.
Concentration and awareness? He's gifted a goal because his awareness and concentration are terrible.
The lad is bang average at best. We don't need to try make up shit like he has good positioning to paint over this shit when he blatantly doesn't have good positioning anyway. In a years time he'll never be wearing a United shirt in a competitive game again.
Doesn't hide from the ball? He regularly touches the ball half the amount of our other CMs and makes half the passes. A CM who is at the bottom of the list of touches and passes and half of his CM partners is exactly the definition of hiding from the ball. Although I'll actually be fair and say it isn't hiding, Scott just simply has no clue how to position himself to be free for a pass.
Concentration and awareness? He's gifted a goal because his awareness and concentration are terrible.
The lad is bang average at best. We don't need to try make up shit like he has good positioning to paint over this shit when he blatantly doesn't have good positioning anyway. In a years time he'll never be wearing a United shirt in a competitive game again.
Actually, he's had a better first year at senior club football than both Fletch and Lingard put together. But whatever.
As to the second part of your post. mate, respectfully disagree. I saw a McTominay who showed he doesn't mind being available for a ball at any key areas, nor was he afraid to immediately try playing a quick pass, which is a very necessity in today's football. And he has great first touch, and strength to win the ball even if he sometimes is being crowded by many people. To see some one really hate getting the ball, watch Henderson play for England. Even when he was fantastic in the world cup, he just genuinely would have been happy to let any one else do anything else with the ball. McTominay is doing a lot of pedestrian stuff. but his technique is sound, and he is doing this in a very competitive aspect of the game. and he doesn't want to let his team down, so basically doesn't at all look up or think of something really bold.
To best explain why Mctominay doesn't do anything, you may have to go back last season to a part where Jose was beaming with pride and saying "he doesn't score, maybe because I don't tell him to". every shortcoming you see in his game, comes from because of his task which was to just facilitate, not lose ball, press when you have to, bully when you can. All these things. He does them effectively well, and at a good rate. As to what he can do with the ball. I didn't see really verve and things from Lingard years and years ago either. But you only have to watch the last 3 years of Lingard's contribution to realize how talented he is, and how little time he needs to keep the thing going. Not saying McTominay will become as good as lingard, but the quality on the ball and what he does with little time, and how he thinks of using it, or not hinders the system when it works, tells me enough that he can be coached into being a very useful player.
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