Saul Niguez
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Herrera's neither either, so sounds like he's the ideal replacement
Ouch.
See I'm not in either camp on Herrera, I can see players that would be an upgrade on him but I wouldn't trust this board to upgrade him and Matic in the same summer, and I think the latter is in the much greater need of replacing, our CB situation is not great but they are the most exposed CB's in the top 6 due to who we have at DM.I've not seen a great deal of him live but his stats are concerning if we were thinking of him as a possible pogba replacement. In the league he's only making mid 40s passes per game in a very good side, that's about a third less than pogba. He's actually got passing marked down as a weakness on whoscored. He's made one assist and scored four goals, again clearly far less. Statistically he looks more like a Herrera replacement than a pogba replacement. We surely can't spend crazy money on a player who's output is so average irrespective of how much we like his playing style?
You're only looking at one side of things. He's a hard worker who wins the ball as well as being better offensively than Ander.
He's not a purely offensive midfielder like pogba no. He obviously wouldnt be his replacement
Isn't Saul in the top 5% for ground covered per game in Europe or something?
Man Utd making a sensible signing?.....
Yeah fecking right we'll end up signing Davy Propper in midfield instead......
Yeah fecking right we'll end up signing Davy Propper in midfield instead......
This should tell you about Saul
These were statistically the best CMs to have played 10+ matches in CM and DM positions in La Liga last season
Of those 10 top performers in CM and DM positions only Casemiro made slightly more tackles than Saul. Saul was tied in 2nd with Gabriel Pires
When it comes to interceptions he came in 5th, so a bunch of those players who made less tackles made up for it with more interceptions and he was more on the tackles side.
He had the 5th most dribbles, 7th most passes, joint 8th most key passes and joint least assists from this group of 10 players.
His strength comes from working hard and competing for the ball and then being able to do things on the ball fairly well, but not as good as players who's games are mainly on those skills.
He's a DM with some ability that some DMs dont have. Not a playmaker, not an attacking midfielder or anything like that.
These were statistically the best CMs to have played 10+ matches in CM and DM positions in La Liga last season
Of those 10 top performers in CM and DM positions only Casemiro made slightly more tackles than Saul. Saul was tied in 2nd with Gabriel Pires
When it comes to interceptions he came in 5th, so a bunch of those players who made less tackles made up for it with more interceptions and he was more on the tackles side.
He had the 5th most dribbles, 7th most passes, joint 8th most key passes and joint least assists from this group of 10 players.
His strength comes from working hard and competing for the ball and then being able to do things on the ball fairly well, but not as good as players who's games are mainly on those skills.
He's a DM with some ability that some DMs dont have. Not a playmaker, not an attacking midfielder or anything like that.
would love Saul. just can't see it happening though tbh.
As if...
Would love him, but got City written all over him IMO.
Give them Herrera please
This should tell you about Saul
These were statistically the best CMs to have played 10+ matches in CM and DM positions in La Liga last season
Of those 10 top performers in CM and DM positions only Casemiro made slightly more tackles than Saul. Saul was tied in 2nd with Gabriel Pires
When it comes to interceptions he came in 5th, so a bunch of those players who made less tackles made up for it with more interceptions and he was more on the tackles side.
He had the 5th most dribbles, 7th most passes, joint 8th most key passes and joint least assists from this group of 10 players.
His strength comes from working hard and competing for the ball and then being able to do things on the ball fairly well, but not as good as players who's games are mainly on those skills.
He's a DM with some ability that some DMs dont have. Not a playmaker, not an attacking midfielder or anything like that.
So would you play him in Matic's role?
We have no say in where Herrera goes now, he's free in the summer.
As 1 of 2 CMs/DMs yeah. Similar to Ander and Matic. We could do Saul & Fred, Saul & McTominay etc with Pogba playing further forward. Or if we signed another midfielder, but personally I will be expecting 1
The problem there is we are still basically reliant on Pogba to do anything creative from midfield with those combinations, I feel we need a DM that can protect the back 4 and allow a more progressive CM to play with Pogba ahead of them, neither Fred or McTominay are good enough to be starting.
Maybe, but there arent many DMs playing without help at the moment. Other than Fernandinho of course, Casemiro when Madrid play a 3 Kroos and Modric play further up the pitch from looking at their average positions. Maybe some others.
Looking at Atletico Rodrigo tends to have someone pretty much playing the Ander role beside and at most slightly ahead, that player being Partey, Saul or Koke
So finding someone who is currently playing the role and can show that they can handle it alone isnt going to be easy. And signing someone who plays in a duo and expecting them to play alone is a sure way to fail. I mean Fred played in a duo at his previous club and last night we sent him out there to play DM alone with 2 attacking CMs. Its not a good idea. He always looks better when he has someone next to him
I was surprised when the game started and saw Fred was playing deepest, I expected that to be McTominay. For me we should be aiming for what Real and City are doing, Barca as well, otherwise we'll remain one dimensional and easy to shut down, at the very least we'd need a DLP to partner Saul, none of our current CM's can do the job.
-----------------Sancho
---Pogba-------------
----------Saul--------
------DM-------------
would be a very, very strong midfield with a decent all around DM holding.
---Pogba-------------
----------Saul--------
------DM-------------
would be a very, very strong midfield with a decent all around DM holding.
is this even remotely possible?
We aren’t signing Saul. I’d bet my left nut on it.
That’s why I said he WOULD be an immense signing, not that he WILL.
Like he'd sign for us over City, cocks away lads nothing to see here.
Probably not. If he leaves Atletico and that is a big if, it wont be for us.
Yeah Van Gaal wanted to sign him too. Didnt happen then, wont happen now.
He fits perfectly at City as Fernandinho's replacement and a LB (which he fills in at occasionally) when Guardiola wants a midfielder there. And if they can convince someone like Everton or Leicester to stupidly spend 20M on Delph (he's not bad but turns 30 at the start of next season) that will cover a third or so of the fee for his role in the squad.
This should tell you about Saul
These were statistically the best CMs to have played 10+ matches in CM and DM positions in La Liga last season
Of those 10 top performers in CM and DM positions only Casemiro made slightly more tackles than Saul. Saul was tied in 2nd with Gabriel Pires
When it comes to interceptions he came in 5th, so a bunch of those players who made less tackles made up for it with more interceptions and he was more on the tackles side.
He had the 5th most dribbles, 7th most passes, joint 8th most key passes and joint least assists from this group of 10 players.
His strength comes from working hard and competing for the ball and then being able to do things on the ball fairly well, but not as good as players who's games are mainly on those skills.
He's a DM with some ability that some DMs dont have. Not a playmaker, not an attacking midfielder or anything like that.
Set those same parameters on this season's La Liga stats. Saul has not performed similarly.
One name appears in both your screenshots of last season's's numbers & again in this season. And he's the real Atleti midfielder that we should be after:
Thomas Partey
Also, we just aren't signing Saul. I'd bet @NJM78's left nut on it
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Saul can't play as a lone holding midfielder. He's a defensive box-box midfielder with some good shots on him but offers little creativity and his passing skills isn't that great. Quite similar to Herrera. Thomas Partey is similar also but less technical. Idon't want them. I would rather have their team mate, Rodri Hernandez.
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I'm all for being a muppet, but I guess I like a bit of logic to my muppetry. There's just no chance he comes here with the better options available.
I wouldn't be so sure. Spanish football followers love the big traditional clubs and they don't have a huge amount of respect for City, who are just seen as a plastic project (they barely get any coverage in the media here).Saul might see this as a chance to join a genuinely elite club and help them get back on their feet (like Torres and Alonso did when they joined Liverpool).
But yeah, City is obviously the more logical destination if you look at the two clubs right now.
Can he play in DM? What's his ball winning like?
I would like more creativity than him in CM/number 8. Seems like a younger version of Herrera.
I would like more creativity than him in CM/number 8. Seems like a younger version of Herrera.
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He’s played there in the past as well as being a CB and a LB. DM is where he was touted as ending up as he came through but I’m not sure that would be the best use of his skill set.
He doesn't always play alone either. This is Atletico's average positions against Girona last match
5 is Partey, 6 is Koke and half hidden under Koke because he's just barely deeper than them is Rodri
Against Juventus :
Koke is right next to Rodri
There are other times where he does have an average position thats clearly the deepest and not extremely close to another midfielder. For instance against Leganes :
This time he's just in front of the defenders and Partey is pushing further forward past the half way line
This is probably partly because Atletico are a counter attacking team and sit back and defend as a team. Depending on how much they can spring their attacks the more their average positions will expand and if they manage to attack a lot Partey etc. might get forward more. But that also helps Rodri because he simply isnt defending as a DM alone. He often has other midfielders right next to him, like Matic has Ander... for now.
Pep is not going to sign him for 100M. He already said he won't do it for Ruben Neves. I would be surprise if Pep is willing to offer more than 60M for Saul either.
I'm not just talking of Rodri's time at Atletico but while he was at Villarreal. Atletico's coach has always loved to play with two defensive midfielders in his midfield. One sits back and offers option for the defence while the other go hung go on the opponent. Rodri has been touted as Busquet's replacement for Spain and has even done better than Busquet whenever called upon to play in his place but Busquet being one of the Spanish big names can't be overlooked easily especially while he's still playing for a big club such as Barcelona.
That said, I don't want Saul Niguez and Partey. They are not holding midfielders but defensive box-box midfielders. Besides, their passing skills and techniques are not that great for a team like ours to consider them. They are no different from Andre Gomez in the making.
Who would be your preferred target for the #8 role (Herrera replacement)?
Do we have to replace Herrera with a similar midfielder? Pep doesn't have Herrera kind of player presently in his team and I would even say his team has looked unbeatable and terrific with Gundogan anchoring the midfield base to support David Silva and Bernardo/De bruyne. His Barca's team didn't have a Herrera kind of player also. The most important thing is to dominate the midfield and have all the midfielders work in tandem with one another. That was one of the reason Van Gaal didn't fancy Herrera but sadly he had no creative midfielder to capitalise on his possession style of play and make the team look dangerous.
Personally, I would love if we could go for Rodrigo Hernandez as our holding midfielder but if he's too pricey, we could go for Ajax's Donny Van De Beek. He's been mostly deployed as a no 10 or 8 this season but he's at his best as a no 6 as shown in the recent matches. As far as I'm concerned, he's superior to Frenkie De Jong in the no 6 position because he's got better speed of thought, movement, spatial awareness and doesn't seem to hug the ball like the latter seems to do. I really don't know why he was moved upfield to a no 10 role but I guess Frenkie's introduction into the midfield and also Schone had a lot to do with it. Moreover, he's the only one out of the three who can play the no 10 role comfortably, especially if you consider his terrific movement, vision and also, his goal scoring skill which is quite handy.
That being said, I feel Van De Beek is better deployed as a CDM. His performances in the no 6 role against Schalke, Standard Liege and Manutd in 2017 Europa cup final were terrific. He and de Ligt were the players that caught my eyes. He looked more purposeful as soon as he replaced Schone. I saw everything changed from a lackluster non-incisive Ajax to a more purposeful incisive Ajax with Van De Beek at the heart of it all, right from the CDM position and since then, I have been keeping tabs on him but he has been switched between no 8, 6 and 10 just to accommodate other midfielders Ajax has.
If we could get him and continue to develop MCTominay and bring in James Maddison while we at it, we can say we have had a wonderful window.
Footbluz.
Interesting response, thank you. I must confess to knowing very little about van de Beek.
He's a good player, but I think it's too much money,the clause or even 100m€.
I think he is too suffocated and sometimes tactically sacrificed in the Simeone system.
For that reason I do not know exactly what his real level is, for better or for worse.
A couple of years ago the press talked about contacts with his family setting, and now it has been said that his family discarded City to a journalist and pointed to United, so it can be a realistic signing.
If I were United I would take a look one level below,the under 21(where Atlético would go if they lose Saúl or Rodri).
Marc Roca,Zubeldia,Mikel Merino,Soler.
I think he is too suffocated and sometimes tactically sacrificed in the Simeone system.
For that reason I do not know exactly what his real level is, for better or for worse.
A couple of years ago the press talked about contacts with his family setting, and now it has been said that his family discarded City to a journalist and pointed to United, so it can be a realistic signing.
If I were United I would take a look one level below,the under 21(where Atlético would go if they lose Saúl or Rodri).
Marc Roca,Zubeldia,Mikel Merino,Soler.
Yes. Obviously we need to replace him with a similar player (unless Fred adapts to play Ander's role better than he has been so far) because to get a performance out of Pogba, someone needs to do the dirty work.
Rodrigo Hernandez Cascante is probably going to City probably. The draw of Pep is too much for Spaniards, and he is being touted as the next Busquets.
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