Saúl Ñíguez \ Joins Chelsea on loan

[Nou_Camp99]

What’s actually happening on this transfer?

All I can see in the thread is that somebody posted that he’s apparently sent his representatives to the UK but nothing to say it’s United rather than the Scousers (or another team)?

Are we even properly linked with an interested?

He's a player we have liked for years so you just can't be sure with the links. We do have a habit under Ole of going for players we have wanted for a while though.

I just don't see how he can sign for us without Pogba moving on. There's no way we can play Saul Pogba Bruno in a midfield three. Nobody in that midfield to put their foot in.

 

[Judas]

There seems to be some noise about our interest, but there's nothing even remotely concrete to lead me to think its on.

My big issue is how all these midfield links seem to depend on Pogba going, which is quite frankly shit news if true.

 

[Godfather]

mm

Since when goal contributions are measure for defensive players?

He is box to box and for that kind of player it's not very impressive. Also if you had actually taken time to read through the following discussion after digging out this post you would have realise that his g/a stats aren't the only concerning point at all. He has been pretty underwhelming overall for the past couple of years.

 

[redrobed]

This would be a fantastic signing and represent one of our 1st half decent windows since SAF left if we can pull it off. Would mean that we’ve signed 3 players who are each better than Grealish for a combined total of less than what City are looking to pay for Grealish.

 

[theklr]

Think he is going to the scousers and we keep Pogba

 

[Mr Smith]

Saúl is being sold because of a variety of reasons.

1) He's lost his spot as an undisputed starter. This is the main reason for the player wanting to leave Atlético. It happened during the past season because of performances that haven't been good enough. He doesn't have any problems with Simeone - it's the other way around. Simeone has given Saúl the chance to redeem himself on many occasions over the past 2-3 seasons despite the rather poor performances. He's not played well for the past 2-3 seasons but Simeone's always given his full trust. The other reason is the explosion of Llorente who was fundamental to Atlético's league win last season. He's been left behind in the pecking order by more or less everyone he competes with for a starting spot. The club and Saúl have a special relation because of his status as a youth team product which is why they won't stand in his way.

2) Saúl is a rather special case. He's an incredibly versatile player and this is a major advantage when the team needs it for several reasons. He can play LB, LWB, CB, DM, CM, LM, RM, SS and it's something Simeone has utilized to a maximum in order to strengthen the team whenever they've needed it. Saúl is very unselfish in this sense - as long as he plays. But..there's another side to things and that's when he doesn't play. That's when the issues start. He wants to play all the time - even if he doesn't perform. That's also when his entourage come into play and start pressing for more playing time. It has happened in the past - several times - and it'll happen in the future if he doesn't play.

Saúl's biggest problem is a different one though. It's the fact that he doesn't have a fixed position. He's a box-to-box midfielder naturally. He's a goal scoring threat coming undetected from the second line of attack (similar to Gerrard/Lampard) but that position doesn't exist at Atlético and he's not good enough to play as a SS because the options upfront are simply much better. He's very good in the air, shoots well from distance and very physical. He covers tons of ground. His ability to drive the ball is also very good for a player with his technical ability - which is limited and why he can't play as a deep lying DM who'll start play with his passing. That part of his game is very limited compared to the elite in European football. He's much better utilized further up the pitch but he can anchor the team defensively in many games - just not against the best teams if he's supposed to perform that role.

A great player tactically if utilized correctly. He's a fantastic professional btw. I've seen it myself while at Atlético's training sessions in Majadahonda many times.

Most important of all: Saúl needs a change of scenery in order to find himself again. Especially since he's gone through a rough time in terms of mental issues in the past year or so. It'd be good for him and for the club. That leads us onto the next point.

3) Saúl is in the second echelon of earners at Atlético. This is why the club think it's better to sell him with everything else in mind that I've posted about his situation. He's currently player 11-14 in the pecking order but earns a salary which belongs to someone who should be an undisputed starter.

There's also a side story regarding his wages where the club had planned on improving his contract but the pandemic and his performances have come in the way of this.

Good breakdown. Based on this I don't want us to sign him. He'd be an upgrade on the box-to-box players we have (Scott, Fred), but he doesn't give us what we really need. Also sounds like his form has been very poor for a while, which isn't encouraging.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

People asking for Kalvin Phillips really don't understand the Leeds/Man Utd rivalry

McQueen, Cantona, Rio, Smith off the top of my head. We also loaned them Cameron Borthwick Jackson.

 

[Can7onA]

McQueen, Cantona, Rio, Smith off the top of my head. We also loaned them Cameron Borthwick Jackson.

Like I said before, 4 players in how many hundreds of years?

We've bought the amount from Borussia Dortmund in the last 10. Also of the 4 players you mentioned, how many were born and bred Leeds fans again?

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Wasn't he omitted from Spain's Euro squad? That coupled with the fact Atleti appear content to sell him would concern me. See him going to Liverpool and flopping alongside his fellow Spainard Thiago.

 

[MDFC Manager]

There seems to be some noise about our interest, but there's nothing even remotely concrete to lead me to think its on.

My big issue is how all these midfield links seem to depend on Pogba going, which is quite frankly shit news if true.

Very similar types of links to Thiago last year. Guess he too will be signed by the Scouse

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Like I said before, 4 players in how many hundreds of years?

We've bought the amount from Borussia Dortmund in the last 10. Also of the 4 players you mentioned, how many were born and bred Leeds fans again?

Smith was born and bred Leeds but I do get your point. It's unlikely (but not impossible). I wouldn't opt for Phillips anyway, mind. Or Rice.

 

[lsd]

Clearly talking to Liverpool as well don't do business like this. Shame would have liked him

 

[DSG]

Saúl is being sold because of a variety of reasons.

1) He's lost his spot as an undisputed starter. This is the main reason for the player wanting to leave Atlético. It happened during the past season because of performances that haven't been good enough. He doesn't have any problems with Simeone - it's the other way around. Simeone has given Saúl the chance to redeem himself on many occasions over the past 2-3 seasons despite the rather poor performances. He's not played well for the past 2-3 seasons but Simeone's always given his full trust. The other reason is the explosion of Llorente who was fundamental to Atlético's league win last season. He's been left behind in the pecking order by more or less everyone he competes with for a starting spot. The club and Saúl have a special relation because of his status as a youth team product which is why they won't stand in his way.

2) Saúl is a rather special case. He's an incredibly versatile player and this is a major advantage when the team needs it for several reasons. He can play LB, LWB, CB, DM, CM, LM, RM, SS and it's something Simeone has utilized to a maximum in order to strengthen the team whenever they've needed it. Saúl is very unselfish in this sense - as long as he plays. But..there's another side to things and that's when he doesn't play. That's when the issues start. He wants to play all the time - even if he doesn't perform. That's also when his entourage come into play and start pressing for more playing time. It has happened in the past - several times - and it'll happen in the future if he doesn't play.

Saúl's biggest problem is a different one though. It's the fact that he doesn't have a fixed position. He's a box-to-box midfielder naturally. He's a goal scoring threat coming undetected from the second line of attack (similar to Gerrard/Lampard) but that position doesn't exist at Atlético and he's not good enough to play as a SS because the options upfront are simply much better. He's very good in the air, shoots well from distance and very physical. He covers tons of ground. His ability to drive the ball is also very good for a player with his technical ability - which is limited and why he can't play as a deep lying DM who'll start play with his passing. That part of his game is very limited compared to the elite in European football. He's much better utilized further up the pitch but he can anchor the team defensively in many games - just not against the best teams if he's supposed to perform that role.

A great player tactically if utilized correctly. He's a fantastic professional btw. I've seen it myself while at Atlético's training sessions in Majadahonda many times.

Most important of all: Saúl needs a change of scenery in order to find himself again. Especially since he's gone through a rough time in terms of mental issues in the past year or so. It'd be good for him and for the club. That leads us onto the next point.

3) Saúl is in the second echelon of earners at Atlético. This is why the club think it's better to sell him with everything else in mind that I've posted about his situation. He's currently player 11-14 in the pecking order but earns a salary which belongs to someone who should be an undisputed starter.

There's also a side story regarding his wages where the club had planned on improving his contract but the pandemic and his performances have come in the way of this.

You are an Atletico fan, so you are living and breathing this saga. I’m sure you know more than I do.

my impression of Saul over 25-30 matches I have watched him play for Atletico is this:
1. Technically super solid.
2. Natural box-to-box midfielder with nice instinct on late runs into the box.
3. Big game performer
4. Smart player
5. Defensively sound

my understanding of the Simeone - Saul situation was no so much that Saul’s performances had dropped off, but rather the rise in importance of Marcos Llorente.In a 4-4-2, Koke and Llorente are the two CMs with Correa and Carrasco wide, Joao Felix as the 2nd striker. No place for Saul. When Felix is dropped, Llorente moves into the 2nd striker position and Saul comes on to pair with Koke. When playing a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, Koke and Saul are at the pivot and Llorente is further forward. Added to this is complication that they bought Felix for 120m, he’s young, he needs game time, but doesn’t really fit Simeone’s ethos of defense first, which gives Simeone a selection headache.

Are these observations accurate?

 

[sun_tzu]

Wasn't he omitted from Spain's Euro squad? That coupled with the fact Atleti appear content to sell him would concern me. See him going to Liverpool and flopping alongside his fellow Spainard Thiago.

I can see him going to Liverpool and doing really well with fabinho and thiago in midfield with him ... I'd like him here but I think he would probably fit better at Liverpool especially with winjaldum leaving a space in midfield for somebody to fill.

 

[tjb]

If that was the case then VDB would have played more + CM would have gotten first priority

VDB has been worse than either when he's played. No ball progression, constantly hiding and without the tenacity of Mctominay. So far he's operating at Pereira level. So yeah, he's not an option.

 

[SirAnderson]

Saúl is being sold because of a variety of reasons.

1) He's lost his spot as an undisputed starter. This is the main reason for the player wanting to leave Atlético. It happened during the past season because of performances that haven't been good enough. He doesn't have any problems with Simeone - it's the other way around. Simeone has given Saúl the chance to redeem himself on many occasions over the past 2-3 seasons despite the rather poor performances. He's not played well for the past 2-3 seasons but Simeone's always given his full trust. The other reason is the explosion of Llorente who was fundamental to Atlético's league win last season. He's been left behind in the pecking order by more or less everyone he competes with for a starting spot. The club and Saúl have a special relation because of his status as a youth team product which is why they won't stand in his way.

2) Saúl is a rather special case. He's an incredibly versatile player and this is a major advantage when the team needs it for several reasons. He can play LB, LWB, CB, DM, CM, LM, RM, SS and it's something Simeone has utilized to a maximum in order to strengthen the team whenever they've needed it. Saúl is very unselfish in this sense - as long as he plays. But..there's another side to things and that's when he doesn't play. That's when the issues start. He wants to play all the time - even if he doesn't perform. That's also when his entourage come into play and start pressing for more playing time. It has happened in the past - several times - and it'll happen in the future if he doesn't play.

Saúl's biggest problem is a different one though. It's the fact that he doesn't have a fixed position. He's a box-to-box midfielder naturally. He's a goal scoring threat coming undetected from the second line of attack (similar to Gerrard/Lampard) but that position doesn't exist at Atlético and he's not good enough to play as a SS because the options upfront are simply much better. He's very good in the air, shoots well from distance and very physical. He covers tons of ground. His ability to drive the ball is also very good for a player with his technical ability - which is limited and why he can't play as a deep lying DM who'll start play with his passing. That part of his game is very limited compared to the elite in European football. He's much better utilized further up the pitch but he can anchor the team defensively in many games - just not against the best teams if he's supposed to perform that role.

A great player tactically if utilized correctly. He's a fantastic professional btw. I've seen it myself while at Atlético's training sessions in Majadahonda many times.

Most important of all: Saúl needs a change of scenery in order to find himself again. Especially since he's gone through a rough time in terms of mental issues in the past year or so. It'd be good for him and for the club. That leads us onto the next point.

3) Saúl is in the second echelon of earners at Atlético. This is why the club think it's better to sell him with everything else in mind that I've posted about his situation. He's currently player 11-14 in the pecking order but earns a salary which belongs to someone who should be an undisputed starter.

There's also a side story regarding his wages where the club had planned on improving his contract but the pandemic and his performances have come in the way of this.

Honestly this makes me feel we should just stay clear.

 

[SirAnderson]

Stats compared to Fred is worrying. Fred ahead of everything else except defending. I'm not really a stats man and I know how Fred is average for us, above average some games at best, but for him to be ahead like this definitely makes me think twice.
Saúl Ñíguez Atlético Madrid

 

[Nicoseth]

Stats compared to Fred is worrying. Fred ahead of everything else except defending. I'm not really a stats man and I know how Fred is average for us, above average some games at best, but for him to be ahead like this definitely makes me think twice.
Saúl Ñíguez Atlético Madrid

No need to worry about it. We're not going to sign him, imo.

 

[devilish]

VDB has been worse than either when he's played. No ball progression, constantly hiding and without the tenacity of Mctominay. So far he's operating at Pereira level. So yeah, he's not an option.

He was barely ever utilized which means he lacked match practice and more importantly confidence.

 

[Bertie 2 Hats]

Do not want.. No... No... and thrice No.. i tell you

 

[andersj]

He was barely ever utilized which means he lacked match practice and more importantly confidence.

His progression numbers were not much better, if better at all, at Ajax.

 

[tjb]

He was barely ever utilized which means he lacked match practice and more importantly confidence.

Yeah sure, its not like he didn't train with the team or anything. Or play in lesser matches. He couldn't even dominate championship/ league 1 teams. That's a terrible excuse. United are massive, he should be doing everything possible to take any opportunity he has. So we should lose games for him to gain match practice, because that's how limited we are in controlling games when he's on the pitch. He seems like an Arsenal player to me. Hopefully he shows much better this season.

 

[devilish]

Yeah sure, its not like he didn't train with the team or anything. Or play in lesser matches. He couldn't even dominate championship/ league 1 teams. That's a terrible excuse. United are massive, he should be doing everything possible to take any opportunity he has. So we should lose games for him to gain match practice, because that's how limited we are in controlling games when he's on the pitch. He seems like an Arsenal player to me. Hopefully he shows much better this season.

He really needs to be incredibly shit not to be able to get a fair share of games from McT and Fred. We're not talking here of Keane and Scholes in their prime. VDB is not incredibly shit.

 

[devilish]

His progression numbers were not much better, if better at all, at Ajax.

VDB was quite a player at Ajax.

 

[andersj]

VDB was quite a player at Ajax.

Yes. But you answering someone who was talking about his ball progression. It was not any better at Ajax.

 

[devilish]

Yes. But you answering someone who was talking about his ball progression. It was not any better at Ajax.

From what I saw during his Ajax time VDB could easily play in a B2B position. Ole prefer McFred to him which is fair enough tbh as every manager has a style of play and his own favorites. Having said that we need to acknowledge that it will probably take Ole plenty convincing for him to break the duo. Thus I think that someone like Saul would struggle to do that. The Spaniard had been struggling for quite some time and seem to fully expect the manager to play him every week.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Varane and Maguire will convince Ole to divorce the double pivot

 

[Canuckred64]

I read a rumour that Saul's representatives are coming to England on Monday to sign or negotiate a deal,. They didn't say with who, but could that be with United?

 

[sun_tzu]

Varane and Maguire will convince Ole to divorce the double pivot

They better do it bloody quick
There isn't long till the transfer window closes and even less time till the season starts
I'm not sure either mctominy or Fred would be best suited to being the lone defensive midfielder... and I'm not sure matic at 33 is the solution either

 

[Gambit]

Why do I get the feeling that our interest is being played up so Liverpool can go, look we beat United to him to appease the fans over their one and only signing of the summer and forget the super league.

 

[tjb]

He really needs to be incredibly shit not to be able to get a fair share of games from McT and Fred. We're not talking here of Keane and Scholes in their prime. VDB is not incredibly shit.

Isn't that the issue though? Whether you like him or not from previously watching him, he has been incredibly shit at United. He played in the Eridivisie, not LA Liga or Serie A or even the Bundesliga. There is a very high chance that the step up has exposed him in a similar way to a lot of performers from that league. Ziyech looks like a player who needs time. When he has played he has shown glimpses and has a good performances. VDB has been the worst United midfielder I've seen for a long time. If you watch 03/04 games again, you will realize that Djemba-Djemba produced better performances.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Isn't that the issue though? Whether you like him or not from previously watching him, he has been incredibly shit at United. He played in the Eridivisie, not LA Liga or Serie A or even the Bundesliga. There is a very high chance that the step up has exposed him in a similar way to a lot of performers from that league. Ziyech looks like a player who needs time. When he has played he has shown glimpses and has a good performances. VDB has been the worst United midfielder I've seen for a long time. If you watch 03/04 games again, you will realize that Djemba-Djemba produced better performances.

At the time we were after him i did wonder why we were after Ajax's version of Tom Cleverley. I'd love to know if the Real Madrid links were real or if van de Sar is some kind of PR mastermind.

 

[theklr]

They better do it bloody quick
There isn't long till the transfer window closes and even less time till the season starts
I'm not sure either mctominy or Fred would be best suited to being the lone defensive midfielder... and I'm not sure matic at 33 is the solution either

He wont change system before at least after the winter break.

We have two new players in the XI (and Sancho is well accustomed to our normal system), a new CB pairingX and most of the rest of our starting line up will barely have two weeks of training with 1-2 preseason matches.

Changing the system many of them have played for years now in that short amount of time is a recipe for disaster.

Can easily see them try it in cup games though.

 

[FujiVice]

Fabrizio just said that United are looking at outgoings before stepping this up, but remain interested and can get him if they are willing to pay 40m euros.

Also said any reports of his agent flying in to discuss terms are rubbish, because his agent is English and lives here.

 

[Digital Forward]

You are an Atletico fan, so you are living and breathing this saga. I’m sure you know more than I do.

my impression of Saul over 25-30 matches I have watched him play for Atletico is this:
1. Technically super solid.
2. Natural box-to-box midfielder with nice instinct on late runs into the box.
3. Big game performer
4. Smart player
5. Defensively sound

my understanding of the Simeone - Saul situation was no so much that Saul’s performances had dropped off, but rather the rise in importance of Marcos Llorente.In a 4-4-2, Koke and Llorente are the two CMs with Correa and Carrasco wide, Joao Felix as the 2nd striker. No place for Saul. When Felix is dropped, Llorente moves into the 2nd striker position and Saul comes on to pair with Koke. When playing a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, Koke and Saul are at the pivot and Llorente is further forward. Added to this is complication that they bought Felix for 120m, he’s young, he needs game time, but doesn’t really fit Simeone’s ethos of defense first, which gives Simeone a selection headache.

Are these observations accurate?

1) Saúl is OK technically, limited under pressure in build-up. He can't organize play and should not have the ball in the build-up unless he improves this part of his game drastically.

2) Actually, very good instinct. His interpretation of space is very good - def & off. But he's not played in that position for a long time.

3) Less and less with time passing on. However, when in form, yes. Here's an amazing statistic: Atlético haven't lost a single competitive game when Saúl has scored a goal. Think it's 45 games as of now. Since 2014..

4) Yes, excellent tactically and very adaptable if used correctly.

5) Very disciplined off the ball and in terms of covering spaces. He understands what good movements off the ball means like few players.

As for the last point; Atlético play different systems and approach games differently based on the opposition. They've mostly been playing a 3-5-2 but it has sometimes morphed into a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 - it depends on the players on the pitch. Simeone makes changes to the system several times during games (up to 3 times depending on the situation). Saúl has mostly played as a "interior" (central midfielder who plays on the wing but goes inside to open up space for the wing-backs/fullbacks) and as a wing-back. Llorente moves between CM/wing (defensive duties) and running behind opposing defenders back as a third striker and utilizing his pace (1 v 1, combination play) on the wing (enabled by Trippier's/Koke's passing).

João's problem is injuries - not Simeone. It's a myth that Simeone is defensive and he doesn't fit in. Simeone asks for defensive discipline and efficiency and the player is intelligent enough to adapt to that. But JF's got a very fragile frame and has been kicked off the pitch at least 3-4 times since he joined rendering in various injuries that have limited him for large periods of time. He played injured from early November until finally getting an operation in July last season. That's why he barely featured for Portugal at the Euros. He was Atlético's best player by a large margin when he was fit between August-October.

 

[Digital Forward]

Great post and thanks for the insight. Are you from Spain? If so, what's the news like on your end? Do the links to United come across as genuine?

Simeone wants Griezmann back or Lautaro to accompany Suárez in attack. There are also low-cost options which they've got nailed down. The problem - as always - is a lack of funds. They will sell/swap Saúl in order to finance a signing of another player - preferably Griezmann (despite the fans not being overly enthusiastic about him returning). Simeone cares about the end result - not about sentimentality though.

@pixel No contradiction at all. He wants to play every single minute and he works for it in training. But his entourage will always look to pull strings in his favour (same with a large majority of players) behind the scenes.

@theklr Don't think he'll have any issues with Solskjær. Think it'll be the exact opposite. Solskjær knows exactly what he's signing and United know what type of person Saúl is as they've been following him since he was 16 and playing for Juvenil A.

@UpWithRivers There are several reasons to Saúl's dip in performances over the past few season. He's been moved between seven different positions to fill in or simply help out. This is why he's looking for a more fixed position. He's also had problems with mental health over the past year (let's just leave it at that for private reasons) and a change of scenery could be very beneficial for him.

 

[bosnian_red]

Why do I get the feeling that our interest is being played up so Liverpool can go, look we beat United to him to appease the fans over their one and only signing of the summer and forget the super league.

He'd make more sense for them than for United. Really don't think he fits into our team much nor is he all that good IMO. He'd be around the same level as McTominay/Fred/VdB, not a step up at all and not giving any of the qualities we are or should be looking for.

 

[sp_107]

So it is going to be one of Neves / Saul / Carmavinga / or we linked to anyone else?

 

[tjb]

At the time we were after him i did wonder why we were after Ajax's version of Tom Cleverley. I'd love to know if the Real Madrid links were real or if van de Sar is some kind of PR mastermind.

TBH Real and Barca aren't teams to look at in the transfer market anymore. Have you seen their recent record of signings? Only difference is that current United fans struggle with having a known entity ride the bench. Madrid would have sent him to Siberia and noone would have questioned them, but for some reason at United, " he's too good to be a bench player", " I wonder how Donny must be feeling"; why should we care how he feels. You play when you deserve to play.

 

[sp_107]

Think he is going to the scousers and we keep Pogba

is that a bad thing for us ?