You know what, if you really can't even bother to have some read on what Wenger and Mourinho did before they got their first big job then I won't bother.
But do go on with your narative, it suits Giggs well
Ryan Giggs | Interviewed for Wales job
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You know what, if you really can't even bother to have some read on what Wenger and Mourinho did before they got their first big job then I won't bother.
But do go on with your narative, it suits Giggs well
Wenger was assistant manger before becoming manager at top league.
Don't even start with Jose, I know what he did before landing Benfica job. I posted as people here said managers should work their way up to land job in top league which isn't the case and I gave many examples.
Whatever Jose and Wenger did, Giggs also did, serving as assistant manger and coach at top club. How well he did? No one knows as no one watched him day in day out.
Edit: You are clearly struggling with the point in discussion. It's whether manager should work his way up from lower league as that's what giggs was supposed to do. Wenger and Jose had 0 managerial experience when they landed job in top league.
The Everton appointment is going to be a telling one - do they attempt to re-establish themselves as a bigger club which could mean taking a risk on Giggs, or does the board now accept that this season is somewhat of a write-off and pump for survival in the knowledge that relegation would be disastrous given the calibre of players they'd inevitably lose whilst having to fund their new stadium. In this scenario I can see Dyche being their man.
Maybe I'm being harsh on Dyche - he's been fantastic for Burnley - but everything about his success, to me, suggests it's down to him being fortunate to have found the perfect fit of a club in Burnley. Not dissimilar to Moyes joining us, just on a much smaller scale. Everton, for their failings this season, have been pretty ambitious with their new takeover, stadium and transfers - have we come to the point where they're willing to postpone this for the season?
Whatever happens, Giggs needs to find a job fast. If he isn't offered one of the Everton or West Ham positions, given the calibre of managers available to those two clubs currently, then he simply has to accept he's not going to be offered a top job in the EPL before having tried his hand elsewhere. He's no spring chicken for the managerial game either now.
Maybe I'm being harsh on Dyche - he's been fantastic for Burnley - but everything about his success, to me, suggests it's down to him being fortunate to have found the perfect fit of a club in Burnley. Not dissimilar to Moyes joining us, just on a much smaller scale. Everton, for their failings this season, have been pretty ambitious with their new takeover, stadium and transfers - have we come to the point where they're willing to postpone this for the season?
Whatever happens, Giggs needs to find a job fast. If he isn't offered one of the Everton or West Ham positions, given the calibre of managers available to those two clubs currently, then he simply has to accept he's not going to be offered a top job in the EPL before having tried his hand elsewhere. He's no spring chicken for the managerial game either now.
Giggs said he is open to Championship and league 1 clubs too.
Is he going after those jobs if they arise or is he waiting for them to come calling on him?
Who knows
No they're not. And their first managerial job isn't in top league
Is that a serious question? How could anyone answer that with straight face?
If it is the latter he will never get a job. Only the elite managers get approached by clubs to take their managers posts. He will have to do the hard slog and apply for jobs like everyone else.
Looking away from his private life, what do some of you have against Ryan Giggs? Is it because he wanted the Utd job?
Wenger's first managerial job was Nancy, Ligue 1 club.
Jose's was Benfica - Portuguese league club.
If you think only top 4-5 leagues are top leagues then yes, I'm talking about top leagues in their countries rather than lower leagues.
Is there anyone out there that could help to answer my query please?
There are jobs coming up all the time. If he is so good he should be in work by now. I think he is being pretty picky about what he wants. He could be a brilliant manager, but he needs to show a bit of humility. He was a fantastic player, but he, a bit like Koeman comes across as a bit arrogant.
We don't know whether he applied or not, it's his first job so what's wrong with taking time to make right choice? Take Neville for example, whole thing exploded and he said he won't coach anymore.
Giggs was in the game for more than 25 years and for the first time he had a break. He should take time to decide as he is ready for lower league. If he makes wrong move then his career is over before it is even started. He said stature of the club is not important for him, he wants to coach players and improve them which is a good philosophy to have. Whether he can achieve that can only be answered if he gets the job.
If he gets someone like Palermo owner then he will be gone in a month.
IMO people are too quick to say he is arrogant and all that without even knowing why he isn't in the job or whether he applied or not.
I think what he wants is really irrelevant. The EPL is filthy rich and most EPL clubs can afford more experienced people then some rookie with just 4 games under his belt. Now if he’s get his chance then by all means he should get it. However, I can’t see that happening and the more time he’ll wait the more difficult it will become for him to return to football.
In my opinion, he should be careful what he wishes for. Sure a top club will translate in better players and a better salary. However it also means being in the limelight all the time. Any mistake made will be magnified by the media and rookies tend to do a lot of them, especially if they don’t know the club inside out. EPL clubs has huge/unrealistic expectations as well. Ranieri was kicked out of Leicester few months after he won them the league. Most young managers tend to get sacked in their first job (SAF, Simeone, Clough etc). However they were able to return to football management almost immediately mainly because they committed their mistakes away from the limelight. Things would have been more complicated if they proved themselves to be out of depth at top flight level. Just ask Gary Neville.
A Championship club would allow Giggs time to build up his confidence and make his share of rookie mistakes away from the limelight. Having said that, I think he’s better off managing a club outside the UK. The Dutch league would be perfect for him
A- it will give him exposure to a different style of football
B- Dutch clubs tend to play more continent football then championship clubs do.
C- It will also allow him to commit mistakes away from the ruthless EPL/Serie A/Liga media.
D- If he does well, he’ll easily fast track his way to some decent clubs just as De Boer and LVG did.
If that's the case then I geniunely wonder why he's not getting a job. Is he that horrible in interviews? Or is someone harming his career?
As you say the EPL teams are too terrified of falling off the gravy train to risk giving Giggs the job. I do agree with @roonster09 that he should take into account who the owners are and their record of hiring and firing managers.
That doesn't mean he will take over first available job.
He will could also be in a position that he is at a club that cannot splash the cash. It will be interesting to see if he can deal with free transfers, loans or has the knowledge of lower league players as to who is a good buy or not.
Yeah will be interesting when (or if ever) gets the job, to see what his approach would be. I want him to get a job where he can't just throw cash so it will show whether he can achieve what he said, that is improving players by coaching them.
Might take some of our kids. Get them away from Ricky Sbragia.
Because for every Simeone there are hundreds of Roy Keanes, Gary Nevilles etc. Why on earth should a struggling PL club take a punt on a completely unknown quantity?
Phil Neville also wants it ,according to the BBC.
And, quite possible, it could also mean that no one wants to offer him a job as a manager....
Yeah. That one too.
Looks that way, seems a few became irked at the sense of entitlement put over by him/class of 92 pals.
Anyway, as others have said, the issue is theres so much money in the English PL now, relegation could be catastrophic for a club in terms of finance, and so they're less and less likely to give jobs to a rookie coach, no room for romanticism in todays PL, they look at candidates body of work and go for the most reliable option as any sound business I guess would.
Even the smaller teams have a lot of money to spend and can attract coaches worldwide as yet another factor why its harder these days.
Burnley will be available soon. Perfick
I agree with what others are saying, Giggs should come back and take over the U-23's. They're terrible at the moment and they could do with a club legend like Giggs to manage and inspire them.
He's one of Utd's best players ever, a club legend that has won everything. The dislike some seem to have for him is lost on me.
The only way he will get the job at this club is if he's a rampant success elsewhere.
Giggs is not the greatest managerial candidate out there so why would he think clubs will beat a path to his door? For any club taking him on as a manager will be a risk. If he is holding out for the "perfect chairman" who will be supportive then he is going to have to wait a long time or start with a much lower level club.
Brighton have always had a reputation for being a well maintained club - there are plenty of other examples. He needs to roll up his sleeves and get down in the mire with all the other managerial hopefuls - he is not the leading light he believes himself to be.
Brighton have always had a reputation for being a well maintained club - there are plenty of other examples. He needs to roll up his sleeves and get down in the mire with all the other managerial hopefuls - he is not the leading light he believes himself to be.
Really? I would have thought it perfectly obvious to anyone why he is so disliked.
There are plenty of examples of PL clubs hiring rookie managers and/or unknown quantities from abroad, so I don't see why Giggs shouldn't get an opportunity somewhere soon.
I can understand the call for him to prove himself at a lower level but I don't think it would be a wise decision for him. He probably knows little to nothing about the lower leagues and the players in and around those divisions, so he'd be going in completely blind and it will be very tough for him.
He probably gets paid more to do punditry than he would managing those clubs, too, so I imagine he's comfortable waiting around for a bigger opportunity should it arise. And if it doesn't, no skin off his nose.
Once again I'm amazed at the vitriol thrown at Giggs on a United forum.
I can understand the call for him to prove himself at a lower level but I don't think it would be a wise decision for him. He probably knows little to nothing about the lower leagues and the players in and around those divisions, so he'd be going in completely blind and it will be very tough for him.
He probably gets paid more to do punditry than he would managing those clubs, too, so I imagine he's comfortable waiting around for a bigger opportunity should it arise. And if it doesn't, no skin off his nose.
Once again I'm amazed at the vitriol thrown at Giggs on a United forum.
More or less ALL players are cretins, however all players havent played 1000 (nearly) games for us.
Giggs - Legend on the pitch >>>>>>>>>>off the pitch.
If I was chairman of a PL club, I can't think of a single reason to hire him, other than maybe the attention that would come with it. He was a great player, but as a coach, he's been part of two failed regimes and doesn't appear to have particularly distinguished himself in that time. When you hear him talk about football, he doesn't come across like a particularly deep or even clear thinker about the game (see also Phil Neville). It's all just lazy, cliche stuff that is hardly likely to excite a dressing room of players.
Obviously, I hope I'm wrong about all of that and he gets and succeeds in a good job, but I don't see it happening.
Obviously, I hope I'm wrong about all of that and he gets and succeeds in a good job, but I don't see it happening.
More or less all players haven't plumped the depths off immoral depravity giggs did for many years either.
If you want to overlook that, fine. I do think it's a bit weird that there are people who apparently don't understand why others would take issue with that.
I think it's even more weird that people seem to take offence as if they were directly involved.
This!
The boardroom won't be convinced by a Giggs goal compilation on youtube; they need to see competencies that are important for managing.
Slaven Bilic is an ordinary manager but when he was a pundit during the Euros he was clearly on a higher level of understanding and knowledge to the other regular pundits. When Giggs gives insight into the game he doesnt say anything that a fan couldnt say.
True. However he can't be too picky either. He is certainly an EPL legend but in management he's just a Ryan. The more time he pass out of the game the more difficult it will be for him to return to management.
In my opinion it can easily be one of these three
a- he's being too picky for his own good
b- he's horrible in interviews
c- someone might be damaging him
Option C is the less likely of the two. However football management is a niche market and if he pissed off Moyes, LVG and Mou enough to put a bad word about him then he's in some real trouble.
I did, They had jobs with the Barça and Madrid B teams (it's like coaching the reserve), in third division. Zidane did just a year and a Half, he couldn't even reach the playoffs for the promotion to the second division and he himself deemed his season as a miss.
They got jobs at the two best team in the world. Was it enough for jobs of this magnitude ?
There's more to a manager than experience, that's all i'm saying, Giggs might be a shit manager, we don't know, we also that know if he'll be a good manager. Dismissing him because of a lack of experience managing a team (he has experience as an assitant) and because "He didn't do much with us for 4 games" isn't a good argument. that's all i'm saying.
People need to remember that Pep and Zidane got two of the biggest manager jobs in the world, we are talking here about Leicester and Everton, a relegation candidate and a mid-table team (at best).
This is not an argument, Have you heard Pardew talk about football on tv these last months ? have you ever heard harry redknapp ?
Gary is an excellent pundit, look at how that worked out for Valencia.
And for me, it's unfair to put the Moyes debacle on him and re his work with LVG, it could be like you said that he didn't do nothing, or it could be that LVG was a stuborn old man and that he couldn't do anything.