Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)

[Borys]

De Jong isn’t suited to Ten Hag’s system? What system are you talking about?

Adding de Jong to this squad doesn't make us play ETH system. We have a long way to go.

 

[Marwood]

De Jong is not suited to our system at all. Neves/Neves type of player is actually a much better fit for us.
De Jong is a high risk high reward case.

I think we need to see at least one competitive game under ETH before we start saying this or that player isn't suited.

 

[Borys]

I think we need to see at least one competitive game under ETH before we start saying this or that player isn't suited.

Neves comes and everyone plays in their nominal position DM/CM/no10.

De Jong comes and we start experimenting who can "do the job" covering for him (look at Barca setup I posted earlier).

The point of signing fdJ is to build the team around him, but our squad is far from the right fit to accommodate him. It's a long term, high risk high reward strategy. But right here right now he is not a good fit, what was the initial point we're discussing.

 

[Idxomer]

Neves comes and everyone plays in their nominal position DM/CM/no10.

De Jong comes and we start experimenting who can "do the job" covering for him (look at Barca setup I posted earlier).

The point of signing fdJ is to build the team around him, but our squad is far from the right fit to accommodate him. It's a long term, high risk high reward strategy. But right here right now he is not a good fit, what was the initial point we're discussing.

Neves has been playing in a very defensive system where he has 3 centre-backs behind him for the last 5 years. He needs players covering for him more than De Jong, and I can't really imagine him playing in a system without this security from defenders.

 

[Kevin]

Neves in, transfer business done. and it’s a job well done. Tasty little summer nugget of delight.

 

[Jacob]

As uninspiring as transfer targets go.

 

[Borys]

Neves has been playing in a very defensive system where he has 3 centre-backs behind him for the last 5 years. He needs players covering for him more than De Jong, and I can't really imagine him playing in a system without this security from defenders.

That's a controversial statement considering Neves IS a defensive minded player naturally. De Jong has been playing in fairly dominant side and with one of the best, if not the best, defensive midfielder of the last decade behind his back. Imagine Fred in that role, because that would be the scenario if Frankie comes this window.
Ideally you would take both fdj and Neves, but it's more a question who fits us more at this moment. But if de Jong comes I trust ETH that he'll make it work, with time (a lot of time).

 

[Superunknown]

Although I have some sympathy with this way of thinking, it will inevitably lead to another season of McFred (this time without Matic or Pogba to come in from the bench). Our midfield options are so utterly appalling, that it may be necessary to proceed with incremental improvements if a large leap in quality is not possible (eg if De Jong proves unattainable). Neves may not be as good as De Jong, but there's no question that he is better than all of the midfielders currently at the club and our need is so acute that I think we are forced to act. We don't necessarily have to sign Neves, but we do have to sign a midfielder.

The problem I have with comparing Neves to de Jong is that we are hypothetically under the assumption that we already have de Jong. We don't. If we have de Jong, then the criticism that Neves gets almost disappears. The reason we are looking at Neves is because de Jong is potentially unattainable. We're not getting one instead of the other, we're looking at getting Neves because we (potentially) can't get de Jong.

It's a fool's mindset to compare both if we're out of the running for one of them. It's like comparing a potential girlfriend to Scarlett Johansson. Yes, Scarlett may be far, far, faaaar better looking, but she is fecking unattainable.

At this rate, we're going to end up with neither anyway.

 

[Idxomer]

That's a controversial statement considering Neves IS a defensive minded player naturally. De Jong has been playing in fairly dominant side and with one of the best, if not the best, defensive midfielder of the last decade behind his back. Imagine Fred in that role, because that would be the scenario if Frankie comes this window.
Ideally you would take both fdj and Neves, but it's more a question who fits us more at this moment. But if de Jong comes I trust ETH that he'll make it work, with time (a lot of time).

It's based on the Wolves' setup where the midfield has a lot of protection. Both Moutinho and Neves are pretty slow so they need that. De Jong of course will need covering too but the idea behind him is the improvement he'll bring to our possession game which will offset some of his flaws.

I wish we would look at someone like Bennacer who has a relatively low release clause, he shares some of De Jong's traits while being much better defensively than him and Neves too.

 

[Borys]

It's based on the Wolves' setup where the midfield has a lot of protection. Both Moutinho and Neves are pretty slow so they need that. De Jong of course will need covering too but the idea behind him is the improvement he'll bring to our possession game which will offset some of his flaws.

I wish we would look at someone like Bennacer who has a relatively low release clause, he shares some of De Jong's traits while being much better defensively than him and Neves too.

Yes, therefore we're discussing two different setups - whether de Jong or Naves comes, they would have different effects on the team.
By the way, having Neves will also have a positive impact on our possession game, it's not like we're talking about pure destroyer kind of DM.

Getting de Jong would be fantastic if we got a DM/another more defensive minded midfielder as well. Getting only de Jong is a bit meh because it forces us to make compromises playing Fred/McTominay deep. I have zero trust in either of them performing this role effectively.

 

[Marwood]

Neves comes and everyone plays in their nominal position DM/CM/no10.

De Jong comes and we start experimenting who can "do the job" covering for him (look at Barca setup I posted earlier).

The point of signing fdJ is to build the team around him, but our squad is far from the right fit to accommodate him. It's a long term, high risk high reward strategy. But right here right now he is not a good fit, what was the initial point we're discussing.

But that's not the system.

What you're talking about is the holes we have in the squad i.e. A DM

Agree we need a DM more but to say de Jong wouldn't fit can't be right. We maybe don't need his type quite as much as a DM but we still need him(or his like). Whatever system we play we need both.

 

[Borys]

But that's not the system.

What you're talking about is the holes we have in the squad i.e. A DM

Agree we need a DM more but to say de Jong wouldn't fit can't be right. We maybe don't need his type quite as much as a DM but we still need him(or his like). Whatever system we play we need both.

I agree. But I believe it's wrong to say de Jong would fit us better than Neves. He is a better player on individual level obviously, but because of the holes in the squad we would need to adjust and make BIG compromises. In case Neves came here, we do not have that issue.

Pogba is another example of the same case.

 

[SoCross]

I think Neves is a quality player TBH. Watched a fair bit of Wolves the last couple of seasons and I've always been impressed with his vision and passing. Seems to me he'd function pretty well with a terrier like Fred alongside him.

I get the same feeling. But will be priced insanely high now - at least 60million I’d feel.

 

[RedC]

De Jong is not suited to our system at all. Neves/Neves type of player is actually a much better fit for us.
De Jong is a high risk high reward case.

So De Jong is not suited to the system our new manager, who was De Jong's manager and who is actively trying to recruit him, is currently implementing? Are you on crack?

 

[Borys]

So De Jong is not suited to the system our new manager, who was De Jong's manager and who is actively trying to recruit him, is currently implementing? Are you on crack?

De Jong might be a perfect fit for ETH system, but this is far far away from being implemented at United.
The only thing Erik has done is he bought a CB who apparently knows how to play it. For the rest we will need to wait a long, long time with this squad.
It's all explained in previous posts.
I stated clearly de Jong is not a good fit for this team in this particular moment, even if he's a perfect fit for the system ETH will be implementing in coming seasons.

 

[El-Manos]

Get him him

 

[macheda14]

Adding de Jong to this squad doesn't make us play ETH system. We have a long way to go.

Yes but it brings us closer to the system the manager wants to play. Are you saying we should buy players to suit the current team thereby kicking the can down the road? Or should we be bringing in players perfect for Ten Hag?

Did you watch any of the preseason games? We are playing in Ten Hag’s system albeit not as well as he would like.

 

[Red_toad]

Yes but it brings us closer to the system the manager wants to play. Are you saying we should buy players to suit the current team thereby kicking the can down the road? Or should we be bringing in players perfect for Ten Hag?

Did you watch any of the preseason games? We are playing in Ten Hag’s system albeit not as well as he would like.

So you watched the pool game and thought that wasn’t Ten Hag ball? We were scintillating at times during that game. His man issues have been with finishing chances.

 

[Gordon S]

His style and abilities reminds me of Eriksen.
Good vision and often crisp delivery. Think they would enjoy playing together. Of course a bit lightweight but would be a nice contrast to having to depend on two workhorses like Fred and Mctominay game after game.

Different player to Fdj but can’t honestly think of any other midfielder that is really close to him.

 

[skc_18]

still almost a month left

Fellaini stage is with about 6 hours to go with Moyes and Woody both scrathing their arses

I doubt club is looking at him. We had chance to sign him few seasons back at 35 million and we chose not to. I think it is De Jong or none.
Its just the fans here who are looking for alternatives and Neves is the first name.

Neves has been playing in a very defensive system where he has 3 centre-backs behind him for the last 5 years. He needs players covering for him more than De Jong, and I can't really imagine him playing in a system without this security from defenders.

This. I think people who are expecting Neves to be DM in (DM-CM-AM) setup will be in for a surprise. He does not have pace and I dont think it is very good in press. His strengths are passing and shooting. And I dont think our CMs are bad passers without pressure.

 

[Plant0x84]

Ruben would be an upgrade on our current options in central midfield. As a fallback option he should not be dismissed.

But for £60m plus??

 

[Acole9]

I like Neves and would be happy if the club signed him. He is a big downgrade on De Jong though, but he's not coming here.

 

[AttackAttackAttack]

That is the key point I am personally am arguing against. You get a player that's not the one you really want, but once you have them you will stick with them. We aren't buying Neves this summer, then upgrading to an actual top class midfielder in 2 years and selling Neves, we buy Neves, no matter how good or bad he is, we are stuck with him for probably 6 or 7 years and won't by another player in that position.

Why can’t we buy neves and then look to upgrade next summer? All the top teams have strong depth on their bench. And who is to say the upgrade will always be in form and starting. We need quality depth and competition.

 

[city-puma]

Neves comes and everyone plays in their nominal position DM/CM/no10.

De Jong comes and we start experimenting who can "do the job" covering for him (look at Barca setup I posted earlier).

The point of signing fdJ is to build the team around him, but our squad is far from the right fit to accommodate him. It's a long term, high risk high reward strategy. But right here right now he is not a good fit, what was the initial point we're discussing.

Using ETH’s terminology and implying from what he said many times, FDJ will be played as the connector role. Currently, Fred is used for that role.

 

[lex talionis]

But for £60m plus??

A negotiable number. I wouldn’t object to 40m, but the way I think about these things is whether a particular transfer fee amount would impede our ability to bring in other targets.

 

[macheda14]

So you watched the pool game and thought that wasn’t Ten Hag ball? We were scintillating at times during that game. His man issues have been with finishing chances.

Did you mean to respond to me?

 

[Devil may care]

The fact whoever we buy is expected to partner either Fred or McTominay is rudiculous as it is, and we'll be going into the season with only three proper midfielders. As for Neves, he's better than what we have but that bar is very low, he's decent but is lack of agility and mobility is an undeniable issue in a system like Ten Hag's.

 

[Crimson King]

A negotiable number. I wouldn’t object to 40m, but the way I think about these things is whether a particular transfer fee amount would impede our ability to bring in other targets.

Wolves turned down £35m from Forrest for Gibbs-White!

The only thing negotiable about the number £60m is that if we offered that for Neves Wolves would ask for £80m!

 

[Hammondo]

Yes, therefore we're discussing two different setups - whether de Jong or Naves comes, they would have different effects on the team.
By the way, having Neves will also have a positive impact on our possession game, it's not like we're talking about pure destroyer kind of DM.

Getting de Jong would be fantastic if we got a DM/another more defensive minded midfielder as well. Getting only de Jong is a bit meh because it forces us to make compromises playing Fred/McTominay deep. I have zero trust in either of them performing this role effectively.

Neves isn't a DM either, both would need a b2b next to them.

 

[Hammondo]

Neves has been playing in a very defensive system where he has 3 centre-backs behind him for the last 5 years. He needs players covering for him more than De Jong, and I can't really imagine him playing in a system without this security from defenders.

I might be wrong but neves is more defensive than De Jong.

 

[MrSingh2002]

The problem I have with comparing Neves to de Jong is that we are hypothetically under the assumption that we already have de Jong. We don't. If we have de Jong, then the criticism that Neves gets almost disappears. The reason we are looking at Neves is because de Jong is potentially unattainable. We're not getting one instead of the other, we're looking at getting Neves because we (potentially) can't get de Jong.

It's a fool's mindset to compare both if we're out of the running for one of them. It's like comparing a potential girlfriend to Scarlett Johansson. Yes, Scarlett may be far, far, faaaar better looking, but she is fecking unattainable.

At this rate, we're going to end up with neither anyway.

I agree. We'll arrive too late to sign Neves.

Wolves need to sell him to sign 3 players.

The chance is to negotiate now when Wolves still have time to sign the 3 they need. If we think random teams are waiting for De Jong to decide on whether he fancies Man Utd before they make their own transfer plans we're dicks.

I've been talking about Neves for 2 years. If we actually knew our role in the football world we'd have signed him and had a better midfield the past two years instead.

But we'd rather play with signing Thiago, Kroos and now De Jong when they want to play for the current best teams in the world. Not one that was 10 years ago.

We're making the same mistake as Newcastle this year. Going after a player too good for where we are today. I'm happier with the Malacia and Martinez signings.

Players that want the next step in their career like Rangnick spoke about in his vision for our targets. De Jong see's this as a step down and that's simply why we should be signing Neves over chasing De Jong.

 

[Kill3r7]

Is he a Mendes client? If so, there could be a quid pro quo to be made with the Ronaldo situation. He gets Wolves to sell for a reasonable price (£30m-£35m), which he should be able to do since Wolves is pretty much his own personal plaything, and we flog Ronnie for a nominal fee or even mutually agree to terminate his contract.

That’s wishful thinking. If Neves were that cheap other clubs like Arsenal would have bought him already.

Exactly. £30m on a player thats an upgrade but not the end game is fine. £65m on a player that you don't think is good enough for your first team in a year or twos time is insane.

Its not just the waste of money its the wages and the trouble you would have selling them on if it comes to it.

I agree. We'll arrive too late to sign Neves.

Wolves need to sell him to sign 3 players.

The chance is to negotiate now when Wolves still have time to sign the 3 they need. If we think random teams are waiting for De Jong to decide on whether he fancies Man Utd before they make their own transfer plans we're dicks.

I've been talking about Neves for 2 years. If we actually knew our role in the football world we'd have signed him and had a better midfield the past two years instead.

But we'd rather play with signing Thiago, Kroos and now De Jong when they want to play for the current best teams in the world. Not one that was 10 years ago.

We're making the same mistake as Newcastle this year. Going after a player too good for where we are today. I'm happier with the Malacia and Martinez signings.

Players that want the next step in their career like Rangnick spoke about in his vision for our targets. De Jong see's this as a step down and that's simply why we should be signing Neves over chasing De Jong.

This deal would be a no brainer if Neves was a relatively cheap target. He is not. By that logic in a couple of years time we will be back on the market spending more money on a new number 6. At which point between those two players we will likely have paid close to Rice money.

 

[OrcaFat]

That’s not true. Fred has his limitations but he also has strengths that give us value. He is the best presser of the ball in our team. And the best at recovering the ball and transitioning into a counter attack. His passing and distribution is inconsistent but he definitely has value. He would excel playing higher up the pitch and winning the ball back high.

Neves and Fred play similar positions. They both need another defensively astute guy alongside. When thinking about picking a midfield with the right balance, it always highlights to me that this “other guy” is the one we really need most. I like Rice for that role (there may be others who can do it). It’s not realistic to get him now (maybe never) but if we could get them I like the vibe of Rice-Neves.

To me Rice plus Neves or Rice plus FDJ or Rice plus any of our current options is better than any other combination out of all those guys. Assuming we can’t or won’t get Rice then we should get FDJ and if we can’t get him we should get Neves. Fine those two are both very good. But we will still be short of that Rice-type to give the midfield the right balance.

Going back to Fred, he has the qualities you describe but he only really fits in as a rotation option to our “Neves-or-FDJ” or possibly as a tactical alternative to Bruno (say) as the third midfielder. Again, it is the Rice-type player who makes all these combinations viable, in my humble opinion.

 

[Bogga]

Are there any reports at all that we're supposed to be in for him or is it just us muppets that think he could do the job in case FDJ doesn't come...

 

[MrSingh2002]

That’s wishful thinking. If Neves were that cheap other clubs like Arsenal would have bought him already.




This deal would be a no brainer if Neves was a relatively cheap target. He is not. By that logic in a couple of years time we will be back on the market spending more money on a new number 6. At which point between those two players we will likely have paid close to Rice money.

Beggars can't be choosers now, we left Tchouameni, Camavinga and Kamara go over the last year. Plenty of other targets too.

It's on the club for missing so many targets that now they might have to overpay. If they have to then so be it. We reduced wages alot this summer and last year so I don't see the problem.

 

[zaafi]

Watching Leeds - Wolverhampton now and Ruben Neves starts so many attacks with his long range passing, Superb vision as well. Great all around midfielder and would improve us massively.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

Why can’t we buy neves and then look to upgrade next summer? All the top teams have strong depth on their bench. And who is to say the upgrade will always be in form and starting. We need quality depth and competition.

Because we aren't run like a proper club

 

[MackRobinson]

Doesn’t matter if he‘s not as dynamic as De Jong. He‘s a very good PL who would at least add much needed depth

 

[Biggins]

We need more than one midfielder so for me Neves is no-brainer if FDJ is unattainable.

 

[NoPace]

Lovely passing today but wasn't exactly locking down his area of the pitch. Klich came on and Wolves looked bad defensively in his area.