I think either of them would look fine next to a well rounded, competent midfielder. Much as they do with each other. I think it falls apart when you expect them to cover for the weaknesses of a second midfielder. Neither of them are strong enough in any area or in general to do that.
Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)
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I disagree. I think they both bring different qualities. For example I think McTominay and Pogba would have worked much better than Fred-Pogba today. I also think Fred's form has taken a serious downturn in the past few months. He was quite good around Christmas last year. He almost reminds me of myself playing football. If his touch is there and it sticks to him, he looks great. But sometimes it just leaves him and nothing can seemingly bring it back.
I still want Neves. Better than Fred, and would work quite well with Scott. Next year we sell Matic and sign Rice. McFred, Neves and Rice, fine options to play in the double pivot.
McFred can work as a decent midfield block, but everyone knows that in reality we just need one player there, so we have a bit more creativity in the team around them.
Fred and Pogba central was a pretty horrible sight in that first half.
The worst moment when Traore strolled past both, leaving acres to storm into.
Fred and Pogba central was a pretty horrible sight in that first half.
The worst moment when Traore strolled past both, leaving acres to storm into.
We want to get away from this double pivot with limited players though. We don't want 2 of those types brought in, specially not 100m of Neves/Rice.
Don't think i disagree with any of that. Fred's form has taken a dip. Don't think McTominay - Pogba will bring us much joy though.
It's interesting you say that as I was just thinking how peak Ronaldo reminded me of myself when playing with the lads, the only discernible difference I can tell of would be my balance and close control which is more like Messi's and my long passing, which is more akin to Pirlo. Apart from those two factors it feels like I'm watching myself sometimes, really freaks me out.
Wonder if it happens to anyone else.
Agree that ideally we would shift to 4-3-3. But i'm not sure Ole thinks the same way, i'm suspicious he'll continue to play with a pivot even after signing a DM. He doesn't want Bruno playing deeper, he wants him closer to the strikers. Also, more freedom to Pogba.
Another average performance
Err comparing myself with the worst of Fred is hardly like the narcissistic wank you've just had.
I thought he had a good game, passed it incisively and his positioning was good, he's not a destroyer or super quick but this notion of getting a midfielder that can allow Pogba and Bruno to play as #8's is fantasy.
Trincao did look good, caused us nearly as many problems as Adama.
Trincao did look good, caused us nearly as many problems as Adama.
I thought he played well in the first half, always looks composed under press. We could do with a player like him, we have no one similar. Carrick-esque.
I completely got your point about Fred blowing hot and cold, very self aware post by the way.
Doesn't mean you have to hate on me for being honest about my ridiculously unbelievable quality level. I'm humble enough to acknowledge though that the one thing know I don't do well enough is sufficiently articulate how good I actually am.
--Neves---Pogba--Bruno works ?
So like us today, but swapping Fred for Neves? No.
Fred might be slight of frame and easier to dribble through, but he's far more quick and agile than Neves and covers a lot more ground when we are being countered.
You think Neves would handle Adama and Trincao any better today? He might not get dribbled through as much, simply because he'll not be able to get anywhere near them and he'd be out of gas by minute 65'. He's a pretty decent passer and a good reader of the game defensively but he lacks the speed and agility to play next to two midfielders who offer almost 0 help in the protection of the defence.
Pogba and Bruno might do their bit in the press and win the ball back a few times, but they hardly ever run back to save a counter attack.
I completely got your point about Fred blowing hot and cold, very self aware post by the way.
Doesn't mean you have to hate on me for being honest about my ridiculously unbelievable quality level. I'm humble enough to acknowledge though that the one thing know I don't do well enough is sufficiently articulate how good I actually am.
He would replace Pogba not Fred.
I thought he did reasonably well. But so did Moutinho. I wouldn't say he particularly stood out over and above him, or a few other Wolves players.
He got a bit of the ball, sprayed it out wide a bit. Generally found his man. But he also had a fair bit of space to operate in so it didn't necessarily indicate what to expect against a good press. You would expect any mid linked with Man Utd to find the passes he did.
That said he was certainly Wolves deepest mid quite often and showing for the ball so you can see why some are enthused by him as an option.
He got a bit of the ball, sprayed it out wide a bit. Generally found his man. But he also had a fair bit of space to operate in so it didn't necessarily indicate what to expect against a good press. You would expect any mid linked with Man Utd to find the passes he did.
That said he was certainly Wolves deepest mid quite often and showing for the ball so you can see why some are enthused by him as an option.
He plays in team that most of the time sits back and counter attack, lets be honest.
In addition, Mouthino is helping him in that midfield so I don't think that he can run a midfield by himself.
In addition, Mouthino is helping him in that midfield so I don't think that he can run a midfield by himself.
Agreed. Would love to have him.
I just don't see it.
Would rather have the b2b type of midfielder than someone who attempts the long ball with little success.
No midfielder in world football can run a midfield by himself. People wanting this elite midfielder than can allow Pogba and Bruno to play ahead of them is pure fantasy. No such guy exists. Especially if Bruno is playing as a second striker and not in midfield.
If Carrick was half the player then sure.
I thought he was very good yesterday. Would be a good signing if we get him.
We should sell Pogba this summer to avoid lose him free next summer and recruit neves and another midfielder
Need a world class player in the position to offer the attackers freedom to go forward. Neves isn't that player.
Really? So the point is to not play our 100m midfielder in the midfield? Or are you suggesting we bench Rashford (in which case Martial wouldn’t even make the bench)?
we just need a 6 with excellent passing and positional sense. Neves is that
He maybe ultimately is not of the desired quality, but is head and shoulders a better option than someone like Fred. For a reasonable fee I would get him just in order to never see Fred stumble around like a drunk man.
I think Neves would be a supreme addition to our squad and thin midfield. He would offer the opposite of Fred and McTominay with his passing through the lines and long balls, while still being good defensively. I think we would have seen a very different match and outcome of the Southampton game, as he is able to take the ball and find his team mates and not get overrun. I also think he played a good game yesterday. He was breaking up our play and playing good passes in behind our defenders quite a lot. I think he would be very good alongside McTominay where he would do the "sitting" and playmaking, and McTominay would do the running and hard work. I would be very excited if we signed this guy.
Why bump this thread? I mean he’s surely dead after a sniper shot him from the stands
Yeah I think yesterdays reaction to the goal isnt going to do any good.
It is quite likely he will be benched on merit - simply because Ronaldo is up top, Greenwood on the right, and we have enough competition for a LW role.
I don't know how many times we need to see Pogba in a double pivot to know it is not a solution.
Then there's the bizarre isea that because 4231 with Pogba and Bruno isn't working then we can just switch to 4-3-3 and have even less protection at the base of midfield. Good luck with that.
Then why cant we get rid of Pogba and sign 2 CM's to fix the problem rather begging him to sign the extension
We can buy some one who can play in double pivot or a long DM.
This. Apart from his whinging after the goal Neves wasn’t much of a factor. He’s decent, without question, but we need to go beyond decent. Neves wouldn’t be a bad signing, especially if we can offload all of James, Lingard and Donny, but there’s too much of a whiff of panic buy about if weeny dine this road.
The DM thing has been beaten to death. We know that both Fred and McTominay are box-to-box CMs. Fred plays for Brazil as a dynamic box to box presser with Casemiro sitting as the lone holding midfielder. There were posts in the Caf that suggested that Fred took Fabinho’s spot. No, Casemiro did.
Fred’s job in the Brazil 11 is to act like a ball winning terrier, and once he wins the ball, give it to Neymar or Casemiro and recycle possession. He’s not a ball possession distributor like we need to use him here. McTominay is a flat out box-to box CM.
Neves is also a box-to-box CM, NOT a classic, shield the back 4 DM, nor is he a deep lying playmaker. He literally solves none of our problems.
‘We either need a flat out shield the back 4 DM who is good in possession or a Jorginho type who sits behind his attack dogs Kante and Mount.
The more I look at it, if you are dead set on playing a 4-3-3 with our squad, you need a classic DM to play Pogba and Bruno together in a midfield 3. Someone who covers a lot of ground and has no problems playing out from the press. Kimmich, Brozovic, Casemiro, Rodri, Kante (all unavailable). Ndidi, Phillips and Rice require massive investment, so also not going to happen.
I think we’re stuck with McFred, Pogtic, and McPogba as our pairings until we solve the problem. Neves won’t solve this.
Fred’s job in the Brazil 11 is to act like a ball winning terrier, and once he wins the ball, give it to Neymar or Casemiro and recycle possession. He’s not a ball possession distributor like we need to use him here. McTominay is a flat out box-to box CM.
Neves is also a box-to-box CM, NOT a classic, shield the back 4 DM, nor is he a deep lying playmaker. He literally solves none of our problems.
‘We either need a flat out shield the back 4 DM who is good in possession or a Jorginho type who sits behind his attack dogs Kante and Mount.
The more I look at it, if you are dead set on playing a 4-3-3 with our squad, you need a classic DM to play Pogba and Bruno together in a midfield 3. Someone who covers a lot of ground and has no problems playing out from the press. Kimmich, Brozovic, Casemiro, Rodri, Kante (all unavailable). Ndidi, Phillips and Rice require massive investment, so also not going to happen.
I think we’re stuck with McFred, Pogtic, and McPogba as our pairings until we solve the problem. Neves won’t solve this.
Wtf is that, a new pokemon?
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