Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

Disclaimer: I am not [yet] supportive of Amorim changing his tactics, mostly because I think this lot of players he has cannot be successful with any tactics. They SUCKED with back four under Ten Hag so I don't believe tactics is the solution for them. We need better players.

That said, I am not for harassing and dismissing people advocating that Amorim needs to keep an open mind, either. It is not a ridiculous opinion and while some of us do not [yet] share it, we have to respect people who do.

I would invite you to watch these two interesting (in my opinion videos) about how Conte and Simeone adapted and changed the tactics they had been known for, and very successful with for many years:
  1. Conte changed his back-three tactics at Napoli
  2. Simeone radically changed his defense-minded tactics to very attacking one

Just because Amorim has done back-three his entire, very short, career doesn't mean he should not be open-minded in the future. Conte and SImeone are even more successful than him and had been loyal to their tactics for longer. Didn't stop them from change. There is a time for anybody when they should be open for change.

That is my 2c
 
Zumbi said:
If you appear to argue in bad faith then don’t expect me to coddle you.

It was a general discussion about how he improved Sporting, which included winning their first league titles for twenty years (note the plural). Finding a quote from his very first year in order to suggest they were a cynical, low scoring team, whilst ignoring all the subsequent years when they won scoring shit loads of goals comes across as dishonest and/or disingenuous, or just downright clueless.
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There you go. Ending your post with an insult. Back to your usual self.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
There you go. Ending your post with an insult. Back to your usual self.
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If you can logically explain how ignoring four years of a manager’s tenure makes sense when assessing the success of that manager’s tenure, I’ll happily apologize and take a month off posting.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
Kompany had brought Burnley back up into the Prem in fine style in his first season. Surely he'd have been viewed even more highly if he'd changed tack and kept Burnley up towards the end of his second season? It's a strange argument to make that someone essentially relegates his own team by deliberately playing a style that he thinks will endear him to bigger clubs? Dogmatically sticking to your principles and ultimately being relegated is one thing, but believing there is a way that you could play that would keep the side up but choosing to play a different way to make yourself look better (even if it gets the side relegated) is a massive stretch. It melts my mind just thinking about it.
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Probably best not to then mate
 
I’m afraid Amorim is being thrown under the bus (by the players) in record time:(
 
Polar said:
I’m afraid Amorim is being thrown under the bus (by the players) in record time:(
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I really don’t think the club will side with the players anymore. I don’t know why but I feel like sacking ETH was the last straw for the club in terms of giving these players more chances, now it’s going to be on them. I think the club will work closely with Amorim to shape the squad over the next year or two. Depending on how well that goes will dictate when they will start expecting results.
 
pocco said:
I really don’t think the club will side with the players anymore. I don’t know why but I feel like sacking ETH was the last straw for the club in terms of giving these players more chances, now it’s going to be on them. I think the club will work closely with Amorim to shape the squad over the next year or two. Depending on how well that goes will dictate when they will start expecting results.
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Nearly all of them have been bought under ETH and we overhauled the team with almost all managers. There isn't a point were the club "sided" with them.
 
Kayla40TS said:
This is factually not true.

Playing 3 CBs means your fullbacks become wingbacks, play higher up the pitch, have more freedom to roam and can create situation where YOU can outnumber the other team in several areas of the pitch at once.

He's not obsessed with 3-4-3 because that's not the system he plays. He plays a 3-4-2-1. He's obsessed with that formation because he's an expert on it, it's brought him huge success and it's a very flexible attacking system.

I find it just as unfathomable today as I did yesterday that any United supporter who has paid attention for the last decade is doubting Amorim at this moment in time and not laser focused on the squad of players proving once again that they are MILES and MILES off being good enough.
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Our best results were away to City, Arsenal and Liverpool because we were forced to play a low block which suits us best. A high press and high backline would have killed us.

Our sad state is at least 80% due to the poor players, but I am not sure Amorim has what it takes to succeed at OT. If he continues like this, which he most likely will, and he might not be around in July.
 
gulli_G said:
The previous managers, a mish mash of previous manager players, doing a job for the incumbent manager at the time.
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To be fair mate there are only a small handful of players left who even played under Solskjaer never mind Jose. 80%+ of this squad was brought in or promoted by ETH.
 
Biggest drawback with inexperienced managers like Solskjaer and ETH was their targeting policy or inability to ensure quality purchases. They were clueless and simply had no idea what was required. United lacked competence to support them when it comes to player logistics.

United need to bring in very competent people who can help Amorim building up a competitive squad, but also secure long term perspective regardless of who is manager.
 
VP89 said:
Thats a bit too simple of an insinuation. You think Lindelof, Malacia, Eriksen for example are looking for excuses? They don't strike me as this. Just surplus to requirements for different reasons. They show no resentment to the club.
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You don't have to show resentment to know you're onto a good thing but you're probably going to have to go and play in Turkey or Greece next season for less than half of what you're on currently. I'm sure they'd all take a renewal if you offered them one. There doesn't have to be ill feelings, it's people literally trying to say "I'm a good player, I deserve a good move and a good salary. It's this guys tactics that are wrong".
 
JPRouve said:
Nearly all of them have been bought under ETH and we overhauled the team with almost all managers. There isn't a point were the club "sided" with them.
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Every time we sack a coach we side with the players, as we effectively believe they’re capable of better. I do think ETH brought it upon himself, but I think the club is beyond the point of being so naive as to trust these players under a different coach.
 
Whoever isn't happy to play under Amorim can move on. The last thing we need are players who doubt the system and play out of sync with others.

I am not judging whether the system is good or bad, but i know the lack of belief won't do it any good.

That message by Sancho to Rashford "freedom", says it all about the attitude of these ex players. Gives me the impression like they are spoilt kids breaking free from their parents and doing whatever they want, not in a good way.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Our sad state is at least 80% due to the poor players, but I am not sure Amorim has what it takes to succeed at OT. If he continues like this, which he most likely will, and he might not be around in July.
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At Everton, David Moyes is demonstrating how a new manager can improve a team.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Does it really need repeating that we are NOT replacing most of our squad within a year? Ratcliff is axing another 200 jobs to balance the books, there is no money for new players. Out of the starting XI, 8 or 9 of them will still be our players this time next year.

These players know this too. That is why they are annoyed with these tactics that don't work.
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I expect we will sign 1-2 players this summer and they won’t be established stars.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Our best results were away to City, Arsenal and Liverpool because we were forced to play a low block which suits us best. A high press and high backline would have killed us.

Our sad state is at least 80% due to the poor players, but I am not sure Amorim has what it takes to succeed at OT. If he continues like this, which he most likely will, and he might not be around in July.
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Well you may be right. I think he's the exact right man to bring us back to the top. And to be honest, results right now don't really matter to me all that much.

For me, if this new regime brought in a hot shot young manager with a new system and a winning attacking mentality only to bin it all after eight months before even giving him a summer window and a pre-season then I'm probably done as a supporter of this club until it's fan owned.
 
pocco said:
Every time we sack a coach we side with the players, as we effectively believe they’re capable of better. I do think ETH brought it upon himself, but I think the club is beyond the point of being so naive as to trust these players under a different coach.
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Or we sack the man that was hired to build a good team and was given the means to build that good team and failed. The idea that we side with players make no sense when every manager has been given the means to overhaul the team at great cost. In reality this isn't a case of manager vs players but managers paying the price for failing at their job and the players they purchased not being good enough is the number one reason to sack them.
 
Escobar said:
They were super strong in the CL under him
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That’s not true, Amorim Sporting were knocked out group phase in 22/23 season and round of 16 the season before..

Last season Atlanta knocked his side out of Europa League at round of 16, Amorim has no real track record in European competition, let’s not kid ourselves he did what Jose did with Porto?
 
pocco said:
Every time we sack a coach we side with the players, as we effectively believe they’re capable of better. I do think ETH brought it upon himself, but I think the club is beyond the point of being so naive as to trust these players under a different coach.
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It doesn't really have anything to do with siding with the players. We signed Antony and now we are trying to move him on because he didn't perform as we would have liked him to. Same with managers, they are set expectations and when they fail to meet them they get sacked. 99.9% of football managers get to a point in any job when it's clear it isn't working and they can't turn it around. Ten Hag got to that point probably 3-4 times before he was eventually given the boot. The players were all following Ten Hags game plan and bar Rashford they were pretty much all trying their best.
 
moodyred said:
Whoever isn't happy to play under Amorim can move on. The last thing we need are players who doubt the system and play out of sync with others.

I am not judging whether the system is good or bad, but i know the lack of belief won't do it any good.

That message by Sancho to Rashford "freedom", says it all about the attitude of these ex players. Gives me the impression like they are spoilt kids breaking free from their parents and doing whatever they want, not in a good way.
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Yeah "freedom". That shows the intelligence of Sancho.

The club had to beg others to take Sancho off our hands.

On to Rashford, once a bigger club comes looking for Emery, I'm sure Villa will struggle to replace him. At that point I hope that Villa have made the deal permanent. We've seen Newcastle go down 2 years after just failing to get Champions League. He could easily be a championship player in the next 3 seasons.
 
The only players left still playing currently from over the years are Bruno Maguire and Dalot. Many players are gone, Fred, McTominay, Sancho, Rashford, Martial, Bissaka, Greenwood, Antony Varane, Elanga Lingard, Mata they are all gone. So we can't say we keep siding with these players.
 
Yeah. Constantly saying "these players" is quite vague because we've already done a clear out and brought in a few new faces over the past few summers. However our recruitment has been shite, and Ruben was brought in at a shit time, but absolving him of absolutely everything that's occured on the pitch because "all the players are shite", is bonkers. The squad isn't nearly as bad as the level we're seeing on the pitch currently. That post above mentioning David Moyes getting a tune out of Everton since coming in will be ridiculed, but there's definitely an argument that our performances never really improved since Ruben took over, when that was partially the point in hiring him, and we're actually getting progressively worse.
 
Polar said:
I’m afraid Amorim is being thrown under the bus (by the players) in record time:(
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But our players are mostly young and recently brought in. I have a hard time believing that our young players have decided that we will get Amorim sacked.

I suspect its more likely that our players don't have the experience or skill in some cases to adapt to his system.
 
Woziak said:
That’s not true, Amorim Sporting were knocked out group phase in 22/23 season and round of 16 the season before..

Last season Atlanta knocked his side out of Europa League at round of 16, Amorim has no real track record in European competition, let’s not kid ourselves he did what Jose did with Porto?
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I obviously meant this season
 
I still find it incredible that after 12 years of shitshow, there are posts like "the formation is 80% of our problems".

You are so right guys, we shoud hire Moyes again, he will improve us! I bet he'll get us to 9th place, the genius bastard!

Why would we allow a young and talented manager to actually change things and implement new system and culture, that's crazy talk!
It's not working so well after 3 WHOLE MONTHS, it's obviously never going to work.
Resets and changes in football should happen in a month, tops, otherwise it's bad manager!

Throw away change, throw away vision, no need for structure or strategy.
Just go VIBESCHESTER UNITED all the way, it gave us so much success. I mean, fighting for top 4 and sporadically winning a local cup is what we should be aiming for!

We demand a short term fix immediately!
 
Toshey said:
I still find it incredible that after 12 years of shitshow, there are posts like "the formation is 80% of our problems".

You are so right guys, we shoud hire Moyes again, he will improve us! I bet he'll get us to 9th place, the genius bastard!

Why would we allow a young and talented manager to actually change things and implement new system and culture, that's crazy talk!
It's not working so well after 3 WHOLE MONTHS, it's obviously never going to work.
Resets and changes in football should happen in a month, tops, otherwise it's bad manager!

Throw away change, throw away vision, no need for structure or strategy.
Just go VIBESCHESTER UNITED all the way, it gave us so much success. I mean, fighting for top 4 and sporadically winning a local cup is what we should be aiming for!

We demand a short term fix immediately!
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So this United team should be 13th in the league right?

The manager can be underperforming as well as the team culture not being great, the two aren't mutually exclusive to each other.

It's obvious the system isn't working in it's current state, if the manager wants to stick with it then fine, but Amorim himself has suggested that things will be worse before they are better, suggesting even he knows it isn't working in it's current implementation.

Posts like this do nothing but enhance the toxicity and divide, they offer nothing logical or helpful to any form of discussion.
 
Toshey said:
I still find it incredible that after 12 years of shitshow, there are posts like "the formation is 80% of our problems".

You are so right guys, we shoud hire Moyes again, he will improve us! I bet he'll get us to 9th place, the genius bastard!

Why would we allow a young and talented manager to actually change things and implement new system and culture, that's crazy talk!
It's not working so well after 3 WHOLE MONTHS, it's obviously never going to work.
Resets and changes in football should happen in a month, tops, otherwise it's bad manager!

Throw away change, throw away vision, no need for structure or strategy.
Just go VIBESCHESTER UNITED all the way, it gave us so much success. I mean, fighting for top 4 and sporadically winning a local cup is what we should be aiming for!

We demand a short term fix immediately!
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Talk about a hyperbole. Now, the facts are: Ruben was successful in Portugal, however, his record in Europe with Sporting is not really impressive.
PL is much more competitive and of higher quality compared to Primeira Liga, so it is up to Ruben to prove that his methods will work here against the likes of City, Pool, Arsenal and others. So far our league form has been dreadful and the fans are rightfully concerned.
 
Toshey said:
I still find it incredible that after 12 years of shitshow, there are posts like "the formation is 80% of our problems".

You are so right guys, we shoud hire Moyes again, he will improve us! I bet he'll get us to 9th place, the genius bastard!

Why would we allow a young and talented manager to actually change things and implement new system and culture, that's crazy talk!
It's not working so well after 3 WHOLE MONTHS, it's obviously never going to work.
Resets and changes in football should happen in a month, tops, otherwise it's bad manager!

Throw away change, throw away vision, no need for structure or strategy.
Just go VIBESCHESTER UNITED all the way, it gave us so much success. I mean, fighting for top 4 and sporadically winning a local cup is what we should be aiming for!

We demand a short term fix immediately!
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Its all good to say this and neither am I worried about Amorim (yet) but honestly what evidence do we have yet that the club has a vision, structure and strategy? Beyond the fact that there are different people in charge of football than Woodword and Arnold? We could be having a vision and strategy but nothing yet specifically visible on the ground.

- At the start of the season and while replacing ETH, as per the media we were confused between various different managers who play wildly different styles of football. Finally during the start of the season we settled for retaining ETH and then sacked him to get Amorim. What was the vision and strategy we had at the start of the season? It seems to me that we are still hoping to get the ONE as manager who can fix all our problems.

- Why is it that the youth teams play in a different style to Amorim's, if that's how the club is going to go forward?

- Why bring likes of Zirkzee if we were planning to get Amorim at some point when we know he doesn't fit his style of play?

I guess we will know soon enough during the summer if we have a better structure in place or we continue to just end up buying players that our head coach recommends especially from his old club.
 
I feel Amorim was a panic buy, but they did it in order to reset everything. They didn't want to go down the interim road.
So it's been basically preseason since he joined.
That's my read at least.
I remain hopeful and positive!
 
Toshey said:
I feel Amorim was a panic buy, but they did it in order to reset everything. They didn't want to go down the interim road.
So it's been basically preseason since he joined.
That's my read at least.
I remain hopeful and positive!
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He was clearly a panic appointment, and doing a hard pivot with our football style midseason has turned out as expected. I thought the whole point of Ashworth was to have a consistent style of play that would transcend first team coaching appointments and build a squad with this in mind. Erik should have gone the week after the cup final, and been replaced with a coach that fitted the squad we've been building. Instead we lose Ashworth and have to rip up the squad again.

Are we now committed to Amorim style football long term? If he goes do we need to hire another manager that plays the same formation ?

​

 
If we're playing a back 5 with Maguire in the centre who's as slow as a boat with defenders as wing backs and horrendous strikers for the rest of the season, it's a right off. This system can work as long as we change Maguire, have quick attacking full backs and a good striker. Hopefully we'll see this in the summer.
 
Toshey said:
I still find it incredible that after 12 years of shitshow, there are posts like "the formation is 80% of our problems".

You are so right guys, we shoud hire Moyes again, he will improve us! I bet he'll get us to 9th place, the genius bastard!

Why would we allow a young and talented manager to actually change things and implement new system and culture, that's crazy talk!
It's not working so well after 3 WHOLE MONTHS, it's obviously never going to work.
Resets and changes in football should happen in a month, tops, otherwise it's bad manager!

Throw away change, throw away vision, no need for structure or strategy.
Just go VIBESCHESTER UNITED all the way, it gave us so much success. I mean, fighting for top 4 and sporadically winning a local cup is what we should be aiming for!

We demand a short term fix immediately!
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To be fair the bolded is what most of his predecessors were also supposed to do. They all got way more than 3 months and were all heavily backed financially.
 
foolsgold said:
Erik should have gone the week after the cup final, and been replaced with a coach that fitted the squad we've been building.
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The issue is that we weren't building anything. We had no discernable style of play. At least not one that was conducive to consistently winning football matches.
 
foolsgold said:
He was clearly a panic appointment, and doing a hard pivot with our football style midseason has turned out as expected. I thought the whole point of Ashworth was to have a consistent style of play that would transcend first team coaching appointments and build a squad with this in mind. Erik should have gone the week after the cup final, and been replaced with a coach that fitted the squad we've been building. Instead we lose Ashworth and have to rip up the squad again.

Are we now committed to Amorim style football long term? If he goes do we need to hire another manager that plays the same formation ?

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A panic buy would be hiring a manager without much thought and in desperation.

Amorim was on our shortlist throughout the summer and we knew everything him before we sacked ten hag. That's not panic
 
VP89 said:
A panic buy would be hiring a manager without much thought and in desperation.

Amorim was on our shortlist throughout the summer and we knew everything him before we sacked ten hag. That's not panic
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Pulling the trigger to bring him in mid-season was panic.
 
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