Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[flameinthesun]

I think there's a subtle difference. Amorim is sticking to his principles because he believes that ultimately this is for the best for himself but also the club.

It always struck me that EtH was desperate to save his own skin and talk up the job he was doing. He abandoned "his" football in favour of face-saving results, he consistently fed us claptrap about how well we had played when we could see how dour it was and he made excuses about injuries and refereeing decisions all the time.

The point is, you or I could walk into Manchester United tomorrow, set-up in a 4-2-3-1 middle block and go through the same old tired motions, and results would be generally OK. We saw that with RvN. Amorim could have done that and soaked up the good PR, but he's chosen the hardest path because he believes its for our long term benefit.

In terms of "open heart surgery", that doesn't just mean "new players", every manager wants expensive new players - it means removing the baggage and the wasters, even if that causes short term pain.

Rashford is a prime example. EtH indulged him time and time again because he felt he needed him. He's credited for taking on Ronaldo, but Ronaldo was completely and utterly shot in that final season. He was so far off the pace it was clear he was finished. Likewise, EtH indulged Sancho many times - it was only the public criticism that saw him dropped.

I could go on...the relentless malingering of "injured" players enjoying a nice jolly, the fact Casemiro should have never stepped foot on the pitch for United again after that Panenka vs Coventry, and then again after Palace, and then again after Liverpool...but EtH kept going back to him because he felt he needed him...

EtH was tough when it suited him or when he was personally insulted, but he pandered to the players he felt were useful and allowed them to get away with murder.

No such messing around with Amorim. We have seen Rashford taking the absolute piss out of the club for three or four seasons...he lasts two or three games under Amorim and never plays again, despite Amorim acknowledging that on form, he's our best attacker. Casemiro has barely had a minute since the Newcastle debacle. A warning shot was fired at Garnacho...and look how his form has improved.

Really don't see how we can make such confident claims about Amorim e.g. no messing around from Amorim, not indulging players. He's been here 4 months and has only had a few years as a manager. Half of what you wrote you could have written 6 months into Ten Hag's reign, replacing Amorim with Ten Hag and replacing Ten Hag with Ole.

There is a chance by sticking to the principles we will eventually get better, there is also just as likely the chance that the tactics are too boring, negative, and get found out in a better league. If the later we will be saying his lack of flexibility and stubborness is what will have eventually got him the sack. At this point in time he is doing a pretty poor job based on already low expectations. I personally think this season's squad is better than the injury plagued one from last season so they shouldn't be performingas badly as they are, lets see how he finishes the season.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Like clockwork.

"Players concerned style of play doesn't suit them" carries less weight in a context where almost every single player in the squad is utterly expendable.

They should be expendable. I don't think they are that easy to be rid of, given how much some of them earn compared to their contributions. It'll have to be a long term effort.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Apparently, Sporting used a surprise Europa League elimination to its advantage in that title win, with Benfica and Porto struggling to juggle all competitions, Sporting’s reduced calendar gave them plenty of time to recover between games.
Also read that Amorims Sporting was complacent, unexciting and downright cynical, they had scored three-plus goals on only three occasions, and had often won by the skin of their teeth securing several late wins with strikes in stoppage time.

Anyway, as you say. time will tell us all we need to know.

Yeah, no. Just in their last three games they scored 3+ in all. In their last 5 actually.

Hell I went and looked it up and they scored 3+ in over 80 matches under Amorim, going on streaks of scoring 3+ in 5, 6 and 7 games in a row. Hope we can get some of that cynical unexciting stuff soon!

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Really don't see how we can make such confident claims about Amorim e.g. no messing around from Amorim, not indulging players. He's been here 4 months and has only had a few years as a manager. Half of what you wrote you could have written 6 months into Ten Hag's reign, replacing Amorim with Ten Hag and replacing Ten Hag with Ole.

There is a chance by sticking to the principles we will eventually get better, there is also just as likely the chance that the tactics are too boring, negative, and get found out in a better league. If the later we will be saying his lack of flexibility and stubborness is what will have eventually got him the sack. At this point in time he is doing a pretty poor job based on already low expectations. I personally think this season's squad is better than the injury plagued one from last season so they shouldn't be performingas badly as they are, lets see how he finishes the season.

This is 100% true. There is an obsession with systems and style. What was ETH football, it was never clear. Ajax had a very strong team in a poor league where they are a giant in terms of resources. They could never replicate that in the PL, his attempted high press and focus on turnovers were likened to Ajax, just it was far easier to do in his home league. It got torn apart in the PL with more physical players and better opposition every week. The best managers are ultimate pragmatists and always evolve. Fergie hired new assistants to update the tactics. Amorim being a fixed system manager with it seems one way of playing, or at least 100% stuck with 3 at the back, is a problem. Its not a common system amongst top clubs and there is a reason for that. No amount of hope will change these realities. I hope he succeeds but its looking like a very high risk bet by INEOS and going against the messages they initially gave.

 

[PlasticRed]

People can direct the anger at me if it makes them feel better. But RA is in a doom loop death spiral already.

Players cant play said formation>>>Results are bad>>>>RA criticises players in press conferences/humiliates them with extra training>>>>Persists with plan A
RA loses some fans, media criticise, RA flogs players harder

Players cant play said formation>>>Results are bad>>>>RA criticises players in press conferences/humiliates them with extra training>>>>Persists with plan A
RA loses more fans, media intensify criticism, RA flogs players harder

Players cant play said formation>>>Results are bad>>>>RA criticises players in press conferences/humiliates them with extra training>>>>Persists with plan A
Fans now disillusioned, media in negative frenzy, INEOS publicly back him

Players cant play said formation>>>Results are bad>>>>RA criticises players in press conferences/humiliates them with extra training>>>>Persists with plan A
Fired

Only thing that breaks that cycle is if RA pushes his ego to one side, admit the squad cant play his way, works with what hes got, and try and get some decent results till he overhauls the squad in the summer.

You all know this is where we are. Its sliding doors. I think he will fall on his sword rather than change.

Press leaks yesterday that players are unhappy with tactics. Id say that pushes us to level 2.

Will Amorim concede ground and adapt tactics or will he stick to his guns and we progress to level 3 with more bad results?

 

[Drainy]

Press leaks yesterday that players are unhappy with tactics. Id say that pushes us to level 2.

Will Amorim concede ground and adapt tactics or will he stick to his guns and we progress to level 3 with more bad results?

The evidence points to the approach that players who aren't happy to give their all for the plan will be dropped and kicked out

 

[romufc]

Like clockwork.



They should be expendable. I don't think they are that easy to be rid of, given how much some of them earn compared to their contributions. It'll have to be a long term effort.

Lets be honest its the Daily Mirror, they have these sort of reports every time we have some sort of a break.

These sort of journalists live for fan division, it sells more, its that simple.

I am pretty sure when INEOS brought him in, they knew he wont change and the players would have been briefed on that. There is more chance the players that dont want to change will be gone than the manager changing system.

 

[PlasticRed]

The evidence points to the approach that players who aren't happy to give their all for the plan will be dropped and kicked out

|Problelm is if they are actually good players and you need wholesale changes.

 

[swooshboy]

Apparently, Sporting used a surprise Europa League elimination to its advantage in that title win, with Benfica and Porto struggling to juggle all competitions, Sporting’s reduced calendar gave them plenty of time to recover between games.
Also read that Amorims Sporting was complacent, unexciting and downright cynical, they had scored three-plus goals on only three occasions, and had often won by the skin of their teeth securing several late wins with strikes in stoppage time.

Anyway, as you say. time will tell us all we need to know.

Ok, you have to be on a wind up. Where did you read this nonsense?

Sporting scored more than three goals in every single one of his last four games in charge. I literally only had to go through his last four matches to determine that stat is total bollocks.

If you take the 16 matches Amorim was in charge of this season, they scored more than three goals in 10 of them. That’s 62.5% of their matches. I’m struggling to think of a stat that’s more wrong than the one you claim to have read somewhere.

Yeah, no. Just in their last three games they scored 3+ in all. In their last 5 actually.

Hell I went and looked it up and they scored 3+ in over 80 matches under Amorim, going on streaks of scoring 3+ in 5, 6 and 7 games in a row. Hope we can get some of that cynical unexciting stuff soon!

It's bizarre that people are now trying to make things up to have a go at Amorim! Also, how many goals has Gyökeres scored for Sporting??

No surprise that he hasn't replied to your replies to him.

The relative strength of the Portuguese league has zero bearing on what he achieved at Sporting. He took a team that was pretty dysfunctional and hadn't enjoyed much recent success and transformed both the team and the culture at the club which resulted in winning the league and breaking the stranglehold that the two dominant teams had had on it. Sporting fans who have posted on here said that it took him time to turn things around there. But he managed to.

I have faith that we will be a much improved team next season after the summer transfer window and an actual preseason. This season has become a transition season, and I don't see the point in trying to change our approach to 4 at the back for the rest of the season, just so we can finish 8th instead of 12th. Especially when then that reduces the time that the team has to adopt to the new system in the summer.

 

[#07]

When our results are as bad as they have been it's not going to be hard to find an agent or a disaffected club official that'll source this.

Can anyone really be surprised either? Everything is bad right now, results and performances alike.

It's all well and good saying sell the players but someone has to want them.

The reality is most of the players at United currently will be at United next season. If they have lost faith in what Amorim wants, don't expect them to suddenly start playing with belief in August.

How many coaches have started this badly and gone on to challenge for titles? We are not even in the top half of the table and our wins of late have been last minute scrambles against relegation candidates and Europa League sides that we should have levels on.

 

[swooshboy]

I think there's a subtle difference. Amorim is sticking to his principles because he believes that ultimately this is for the best for himself but also the club.

It always struck me that EtH was desperate to save his own skin and talk up the job he was doing. He abandoned "his" football in favour of face-saving results, he consistently fed us claptrap about how well we had played when we could see how dour it was and he made excuses about injuries and refereeing decisions all the time.

The point is, you or I could walk into Manchester United tomorrow, set-up in a 4-2-3-1 middle block and go through the same old tired motions, and results would be generally OK. We saw that with RvN. Amorim could have done that and soaked up the good PR, but he's chosen the hardest path because he believes its for our long term benefit.

In terms of "open heart surgery", that doesn't just mean "new players", every manager wants expensive new players - it means removing the baggage and the wasters, even if that causes short term pain.

Rashford is a prime example. EtH indulged him time and time again because he felt he needed him. He's credited for taking on Ronaldo, but Ronaldo was completely and utterly shot in that final season. He was so far off the pace it was clear he was finished. Likewise, EtH indulged Sancho many times - it was only the public criticism that saw him dropped.

I could go on...the relentless malingering of "injured" players enjoying a nice jolly, the fact Casemiro should have never stepped foot on the pitch for United again after that Panenka vs Coventry, and then again after Palace, and then again after Liverpool...but EtH kept going back to him because he felt he needed him...

EtH was tough when it suited him or when he was personally insulted, but he pandered to the players he felt were useful and allowed them to get away with murder.

No such messing around with Amorim. We have seen Rashford taking the absolute piss out of the club for three or four seasons...he lasts two or three games under Amorim and never plays again, despite Amorim acknowledging that on form, he's our best attacker. Casemiro has barely had a minute since the Newcastle debacle. A warning shot was fired at Garnacho...and look how his form has improved.

Great post.

 

[JPRouve]

When our results are as bad as they have been it's not going to be hard to find an agent or a disaffected club official that'll source this.

Can anyone really be surprised either? Everything is bad right now, results and performances alike.

It's all well and good saying sell the players but someone has to want them.

The reality is most of the players at United currently will be at United next season. If they have lost faith in what Amorim wants, don't expect them to suddenly start playing with belief in August.

How many coaches have started this badly and gone on to challenge for titles? We are not even in the top half of the table and our wins of late have been last minute scrambles against relegation candidates and Europa League sides that we should have levels on.

I think Arteta would be an example, the only notable difference was that Arteta was also a rookie head coach.

 

[swooshboy]

People can direct the anger at me if it makes them feel better. But RA is in a doom loop death spiral already.

Players cant play said formation>>>Results are bad>>>>RA criticises players in press conferences/humiliates them with extra training>>>>Persists with plan A
RA loses some fans, media criticise, RA flogs players harder

Players cant play said formation>>>Results are bad>>>>RA criticises players in press conferences/humiliates them with extra training>>>>Persists with plan A
RA loses more fans, media intensify criticism, RA flogs players harder

Players cant play said formation>>>Results are bad>>>>RA criticises players in press conferences/humiliates them with extra training>>>>Persists with plan A
Fans now disillusioned, media in negative frenzy, INEOS publicly back him

Players cant play said formation>>>Results are bad>>>>RA criticises players in press conferences/humiliates them with extra training>>>>Persists with plan A
Fired

Only thing that breaks that cycle is if RA pushes his ego to one side, admit the squad cant play his way, works with what hes got, and try and get some decent results till he overhauls the squad in the summer.

You all know this is where we are. Its sliding doors. I think he will fall on his sword rather than change.

Glad you're not being overly dramatic.

Also, I love how you think giving the players extra training is 'humiliating them'. I'm assuming you've never criticised our performances and felt the players should have worked harder? We have seen this for years with this group of players, so something has to be tried to get through to them.

 

[crossy1686]

Does it matter what the player think at this point? Most of them won't be here in a year or so.

 

[hellhunter]

Does it matter what the player think at this point? Most of them won't be here in a year or so.

Highly unlikely considering our financial situation

 

[VP89]

Does it matter what the player think at this point? Most of them won't be here in a year or so.

I hear this almost every year

 

[AndySmith1990]

With every single fecking manager we've had, we've heard rumours about players having concerns about tactics or training or their fecking eating arrangements. Just shut up and listen to the fecking instructions from the coaches. It's just a different formation, you're not being asked to play a different sport

 

[macheda14]

This is the week where we’ll have had the most training in a while our game was on Friday and now on Sunday. Hopefully we see some small small improvement (and Dorgu at lwb).

 

[Acquire Me]

I hear this almost every year

Yes, we do. That said, we know a lot of the current players are on the way out. Sancho and Eriksen are definitely out, Casemiro and Rashford are likely out, and Lindelöf, Malacia, Evans, and Antony could all be gone in the summer. Some others not mentioned might also be sold.

 

[VP89]

Yes, we do. That said, we know a lot of the current players are on the way out. Sancho and Eriksen are definitely out, Casemiro and Rashford are likely out, and Lindelöf, Malacia, Evans, and Antony could all be gone in the summer. Some others not mentioned might also be sold.

Agreed, though I feel most of these names aren't problem leaks.

I think Rashford and sancho sure. Especially Rashford of late, you don't get journalists defending you publically with opinion pieces without giving them something in return.

 

[Zico1982]

Some people keep going about the last 8 games with 6 wins, thinking that we are on the right track to get better. Let us take a look at those games though. This is my take.

United - Leicester 2-1. A win due to an off side goal in overtime after being dominated for most of the game at OT.
United - Crystal Palace 0-2. Abysmal game. One of the worst performances in the last two years.
FCSB - United 0-2. Some nice passages of play. We were wasteful up front, but else it was okay. Deserved win.
Fulham - United 0-1. Our best result. It was a 50-50 game, and we came out on top. It wasn´t great, but there was good things here and there.
United-Rangers 2-1. Lucky win against a bad Rangers. Again wasteful up front and with difficulties creating chances.
United-Brighton 1-3. Pretty much as awful as the Palace game. OT is no fortress anymore.
United-Southamton 3-1. The result looks good, but it was a narrow game with us getting dominated for most of the match against the last of the PL at home.
Arsenal-United 1-1 We won on penalties, but it is actually technically a draw. Great game. We were defending the shit out of the Gunners and fighting like a United team. By far the best of the 8 games above

That is 5 wins, a draw and 2 losses. On the surface that looks pretty okay but if you dig a little deeper the shine comes off. It is 5 home games and the wins are against Leicester, FCSB, Fulham, Rangers and Southampton. Four of those wins must be expected. Only Fulham away and the Arsenal game are really good results.

I would like to mention the great 2-2 game at Anfield as well. That was our best game under Amorim. We seem to only really show up when we are underdogs. Then there is less pressure from outside, and suddenly the players perform. What does that show us? The players are scared, and we can neither create nor dominate a game. Our best games are when we have to counterattack against a superior team. Then we are suddenly dangerous. It is a paradox, but we are actually doing better against the top teams than against the Brightons and Palaces of this world. You can also read something else into it. We are better, when we are not playing Amorim ball.

Ruben Amorim wants to dominate matches and play with pressing and a high standing defense. We can´t do that with the lack of tempo, crosses and creativity in the teams he is putting on the field. The keywords are playing fast CBs, no inverted Wingbacks, more first time passes and lots of crosses in the box.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

We managed to not look a shambles with Ruud at the helm as he simply tweaked ETH's tactics to make it more sensible and we looked actually like a team.

Exactly.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Exactly.

There is there argument that we played crap teams and Chelsea.. the crap teams referred to Leicester and we really struggled against them last week.. The standard of football under Amorim has been really dire, with the same players. It is quite clear that it hasn't moved us forward so far, but there is a hope that with more signings and more training time improvement will be made.

 

[justsomebloke]

Some people keep going about the last 8 games with 6 wins, thinking that we are on the right track to get better. Let us take a look at those games though. This is my take.

United - Leicester 2-1. A win due to an off side goal in overtime after being dominated for most of the game at OT.
United - Crystal Palace 0-2. Abysmal game. One of the worst performances in the last two years.
FCSB - United 0-2. Some nice passages of play. We were wasteful up front, but else it was okay. Deserved win.
Fulham - United 0-1. Our best result. It was a 50-50 game, and we came out on top. It wasn´t great, but there was good things here and there.
United-Rangers 2-1. Lucky win against a bad Rangers. Again wasteful up front and with difficulties creating chances.
United-Brighton 1-3. Pretty much as awful as the Palace game. OT is no fortress anymore.
United-Southamton 3-1. The result looks good, but it was a narrow game with us getting dominated for most of the match against the last of the PL at home.
Arsenal-United 1-1 We won on penalties, but it is actually technically a draw. Great game. We were defending the shit out of the Gunners and fighting like a United team. By far the best of the 8 games above

That is 5 wins, a draw and 2 losses. On the surface that looks pretty okay but if you dig a little deeper the shine comes off. It is 5 home games and the wins are against Leicester, FCSB, Fulham, Rangers and Southampton. Four of those wins must be expected. Only Fulham away and the Arsenal game are really good results.

I would like to mention the great 2-2 game at Anfield as well. That was our best game under Amorim. We seem to only really show up when we are underdogs. Then there is less pressure from outside, and suddenly the players perform. What does that show us? The players are scared, and we can neither create nor dominate a game. Our best games are when we have to counterattack against a superior team. Then we are suddenly dangerous. It is a paradox, but we are actually doing better against the top teams than against the Brightons and Palaces of this world. You can also read something else into it. We are better, when we are not playing Amorim ball.

Ruben Amorim wants to dominate matches and play with pressing and a high standing defense. We can´t do that with the lack of tempo, crosses and creativity in the teams he is putting on the field. The keywords are playing fast CBs, no inverted Wingbacks, more first time passes and lots of crosses in the box.

The players are scared, and we can neither create nor dominate a game. Our best games are when we have to counterattack against a superior team. Then we are suddenly dangerous. It is a paradox, but we are actually doing better against the top teams than against the Brightons and Palaces of this world. You can also read something else into it. We are better, when we are not playing Amorim ball.

This is where you run into a paradox yourself. Because we can't become a contending team by counterattacking against superior teams, or without learning to dominate games. So whether we're currently good at it or not, there is really no other way forward.

Otherwise, agree with your succinct summation of the matches, and what to draw from that - except the most recent one. I don't think we were dominated by Leicester in any segment of that game, and we clearly dominated them throughout the second half.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Really don't see how we can make such confident claims about Amorim e.g. no messing around from Amorim, not indulging players. He's been here 4 months and has only had a few years as a manager. Half of what you wrote you could have written 6 months into Ten Hag's reign, replacing Amorim with Ten Hag and replacing Ten Hag with Ole.

He's been here 3 months exactly - joined on 11th Nov.

 

[Zico1982]

You misunderstand me. We do have to learn how to dominate games to be a top team. It is just not working out, when we do it like we do right now. Amorim is certainly not getting the best out of the squad at the moment and some of it is wrong use of the players and dubious starting 11. You must play Maz and Yoro as cb´s for tempo with either De Ligt or Harry. Else you cannot stand high without getting overrun on counters. Dorgu on the LWB and Amad on the right. We need crosses, and these are the players able to defend AND getting to the baseline. We need a new Eriksen come summer, but until that we will have use the original to speed up our passing in the last third. We are too predictable up front.

P.S. As I saw it we got dominated by Leicester in the first half, but got better in the second after they scored.

 

[stevoc]

And this differs from any other manager in what way?

If you go back to my original commemt in that conversation you replied to.

My point was that all managers naturally think of their own career first.

 

[Krits]

Some people keep going about the last 8 games with 6 wins, thinking that we are on the right track to get better. Let us take a look at those games though. This is my take.

United - Leicester 2-1. A win due to an off side goal in overtime after being dominated for most of the game at OT.
United - Crystal Palace 0-2. Abysmal game. One of the worst performances in the last two years.
FCSB - United 0-2. Some nice passages of play. We were wasteful up front, but else it was okay. Deserved win.
Fulham - United 0-1. Our best result. It was a 50-50 game, and we came out on top. It wasn´t great, but there was good things here and there.
United-Rangers 2-1. Lucky win against a bad Rangers. Again wasteful up front and with difficulties creating chances.
United-Brighton 1-3. Pretty much as awful as the Palace game. OT is no fortress anymore.
United-Southamton 3-1. The result looks good, but it was a narrow game with us getting dominated for most of the match against the last of the PL at home.
Arsenal-United 1-1 We won on penalties, but it is actually technically a draw. Great game. We were defending the shit out of the Gunners and fighting like a United team. By far the best of the 8 games above

That is 5 wins, a draw and 2 losses. On the surface that looks pretty okay but if you dig a little deeper the shine comes off. It is 5 home games and the wins are against Leicester, FCSB, Fulham, Rangers and Southampton. Four of those wins must be expected. Only Fulham away and the Arsenal game are really good results.

I would like to mention the great 2-2 game at Anfield as well. That was our best game under Amorim. We seem to only really show up when we are underdogs. Then there is less pressure from outside, and suddenly the players perform. What does that show us? The players are scared, and we can neither create nor dominate a game. Our best games are when we have to counterattack against a superior team. Then we are suddenly dangerous. It is a paradox, but we are actually doing better against the top teams than against the Brightons and Palaces of this world. You can also read something else into it. We are better, when we are not playing Amorim ball.

Ruben Amorim wants to dominate matches and play with pressing and a high standing defense. We can´t do that with the lack of tempo, crosses and creativity in the teams he is putting on the field. The keywords are playing fast CBs, no inverted Wingbacks, more first time passes and lots of crosses in the box.

This has been true for your players for almost a decade now. Unfortunately we never built a squad designed to dominate play.

The higher ups now think this is the way to go, Amorim seems to have the confidence to push through that transition. He has mentioned from the very start, that there will be anguish in this. There will be ups and downs and then people are surprised that there are.

There are glimpses of what he is trying to do. I think only after the off season can we see if he has the ability to truly drill that in.

 

[romufc]

This has been true for your players for almost a decade now. Unfortunately we never built a squad designed to dominate play.

The higher ups now think this is the way to go, Amorim seems to have the confidence to push through that transition. He has mentioned from the very start, that there will be anguish in this. There will be ups and downs and then people are surprised that there are.

There are glimpses of what he is trying to do. I think only after the off season can we see if he has the ability to truly drill that in.

Its a mature way of looking at football, doesn't wash with fans who want now now now.

Its so clear that we rather face the hard times this season, weed out the players who are not good enough and get players who are. There is more than glimpses of what we want to do, last few games we have scored more cut backs than in the last 5 years.

When you want to dominate games, your striker becomes important in getting you up the field, ours dont allow that. Salah for Liverpool, although he isnt a ST, holds the ball up which allows runners to be free, Isaak the same, Brighton have that in Welbeck and Pedro, Wood for Forrest, to an extent even Havertz does it for Arsenal.

We just cannot because our strikers are a bouncing board for the ball, it bounces back to the opposition, which means we cannot risk runners forward and we cannot keep the ball long enough.

Patterns of play will be developed, I am convinced we will improve as the season goes on.

 

[stevoc]

Daily reminder that we'll start next season with at least 75% of those players. Amorim needs to find a solution for and with them

Some seem to still be under the impression the club can afford another extensive rebuild. Despite having virtually just completed one.

 

[Regalia]

It's bizarre that people are now trying to make things up to have a go at Amorim! Also, how many goals has Gyökeres scored for Sporting??

No surprise that he hasn't replied to your replies to him.

The relative strength of the Portuguese league has zero bearing on what he achieved at Sporting. He took a team that was pretty dysfunctional and hadn't enjoyed much recent success and transformed both the team and the culture at the club which resulted in winning the league and breaking the stranglehold that the two dominant teams had had on it. Sporting fans who have posted on here said that it took him time to turn things around there. But he managed to.

I have faith that we will be a much improved team next season after the summer transfer window and an actual preseason. This season has become a transition season, and I don't see the point in trying to change our approach to 4 at the back for the rest of the season, just so we can finish 8th instead of 12th. Especially when then that reduces the time that the team has to adopt to the new system in the summer.

Now we have morons outright lying to disparage the manager and play down his achievements for their own personal agenda. Clearly a WUM, as many others in this discussion have shown. Spinning anything they can to paint Amorim in a bad light, even to the point of defending wasters like Rashford. Pathetic that we have 'fans' like this, yet quite hilarious the lows people will stoop to just to preserve their own egos.

Reading through the thread, it's quite clear there are some who have already decided to hate on him regardless of what he achieves/has achieved and refuse to engage in any form of rational discussion. Funny thing is, they've also chosen the stupidest hills to die on (3-4-3, Amorim telling WBs to sit back) which clearly expose their lack of understanding of the bigger picture. Literally just need to watch 1 match video of Sporting from 3 months ago in the UCL and you'd see how they are levels above us in terms of physicality, intensity, and technical ability.

 

[stevoc]

They can go, managers have been trying to shoehorn them into their system for years.

Which managers?

 

[Patchbeard]

I do think there has been some bright 2nd halves so I'm clinging to that. I've also missed the Brighton and Palace games which probably helps my rose tinted glasses.

Think the core of:
‐‐--------------------ST
--------Garnacho---Mainoo/Zirkzee (really impressed me in this role 2nd half the other day)
Dalot------Bruno---Ugarte-----Amad
----Martinez-Maguire-Maz/Yoro

in his system is actually pretty alright.

But the glaring lack of a decent striker is really holding us back, and too often he hasn't started with Garnacho (but after the 2nd half on Friday he'll hopefully start now unless he needs a rest).

The Martinez injury has come at a bad time though, was finally looking decent again and I don't think our other LCB options are great.

 

[wolvored]

Taking out the players that were signed in he summer, TH's last window, then surely every other player has 2.5 years at most.
I dont think any player bought last summer is one of the toxic lot.
If we can offload Shaw Rashford and Casemiro, maybe even Antony, along with the end of contract players this summer, we would basically have culled the big earners, apart from Bruno.
I think then the team with new Amorim players would obviously be more amenable to his tactics. Winning games would then stop any new toxicity.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

If you go back to my original commemt in that conversation you replied to.

My point was that all managers naturally think of their own career first.

Yeah I don't think it was quite like that. But anyway what does this point even mean? If a manager is thinking of his own career (ergo, trying to be successful) then surely that means he wants/needs the club that he's working for to be successful?

 

[cirilus]

Sporting has been found out by ECL teams. Why? They changed system mid season, they lost the ability to have good vertical press. They played well in attack, lots of good combinations and an obvious model for fast transitions and 4/4/2 defensive block.

This means that Ruben made them very solid in defence. Produced a model that creates lots of goal scoring chances. Promoted lots of youth players between 17 and 21 (Bragança, Diomande, Inacio, Catamo, Tomas, Quaresma, Israel, Chermiti, Nunes, Fernandes, Porro, and so on) and increased their value. And still won a few things.

Even not being fun at the moment, some patience could be key. Better players recruited, coach with clear philosophy and track record.

 

[JoseM4]

It's all well and good saying sell the players but someone has to want them.

The reality is most of the players at United currently will be at United next season. If they have lost faith in what Amorim wants, don't expect them to suddenly start playing with belief in August.

I expect minimal additions in the summer transfer window to improve our league position.

 

[Brazilian_Ronaldo_9]

Some seem to still be under the impression the club can afford another extensive rebuild. Despite having virtually just completed one.

It will all depend on selling our players etc Sancho, Rashford, Casemiro..

From our transfer strategy, one would assume we will be buying young athletic players who can play on the ball. Gone are the days of buying big names or players in their prime.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Does it matter what the player think at this point? Most of them won't be here in a year or so.

Probably the most important thing in the club sadly. I will say I hesitate to think this is true, though it is likely there is a lot of discussion behind the scenes from players about why things aren't working - though i would hope it's more along the lines of picking Amorim's brains to understand what he wants better, than basically giving up on his ideas already.

But the reality is, if these stories do start (as said I doubt they have yet) it is a death spiral. Players give a little less in training, get that little bit more frustrated, cliques form and then we repeat the standard United churn of stories these last few seasons which further undermines the coach. Then Neville & Co jump in and throw players under the bus and it all just compounds.

Times: 'sources speaking on condition of anonymity state Amorim was immensely popular with the players as a person but doubts surfaced quickly about this tactical knowledge being such a young coach and without experience of the PL'
Athletic: 'one source, a member of the playing staff, spoke at length about how hours on the training pitch were not translating to matches - with confusion around Amorim's specific asks and rifts forming between the players.'
Guardian: 'With the return of leaked starting XI's and questioning of Amorim's tactics, a source at the club has bemoaned Ineos decision to force Amorim into his seat during the season. There is a feeling amongst many players they would have been better served sticking with Ruud as interim and not embarking on such a tactical shuffle until pre season.'
Mail: 'This reporter, speaking with one of the academy coaches, heard that questions about whether Amorim truly appreciated United's DNA surfaced quickly. Ineos had spoken at length about respecting traditions when they came in but then they hired a foreigner! Leave means leave!'

 

[Zico1982]

Its a mature way of looking at football, doesn't wash with fans who want now now now.

Its so clear that we rather face the hard times this season, weed out the players who are not good enough and get players who are. There is more than glimpses of what we want to do, last few games we have scored more cut backs than in the last 5 years.

When you want to dominate games, your striker becomes important in getting you up the field, ours dont allow that. Salah for Liverpool, although he isnt a ST, holds the ball up which allows runners to be free, Isaak the same, Brighton have that in Welbeck and Pedro, Wood for Forrest, to an extent even Havertz does it for Arsenal.

We just cannot because our strikers are a bouncing board for the ball, it bounces back to the opposition, which means we cannot risk runners forward and we cannot keep the ball long enough.

Patterns of play will be developed, I am convinced we will improve as the season goes on.

Try to compare the passes that Salah gets to the ones that Rasmus and Zirkzee are getting from our midfield while being isolated with their backs to goal and two defenders breathing down their necks. Besides passing the ball back again, who should they set up? Maz and Dalot are still 30-40 meters down the pitch and the midfield (besides Amad) is also slow in progressing up the field. That is one of our biggest problems. We need guys like Dorgu and Amad on the sides for our 9 to work no matter who is playing there.