You must have missed the bit where he was a MASSIVE part in us winning everything when he was here the first time.
Who are your legends? Must be a feckin small pool of players bud.
Ronaldo will take Rooney’s record
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Who are your legends? Must be a feckin small pool of players bud.
I do mean Ronaldo!I think we’re talking crossed wires here, I was talking about Rooney and I assume you mean Ronaldo
But if it helps I think Wayne is arguably an even bigger Legend here.
Is that league? Wiki has 237 goals in 404 games for us and 237 certainly is correct. That's .59 so same thing, with ~300 games already under his belt from the wing Cristiano would need to surpass Rooney's absolute record on the way to getting that gpg
I have a lot of time for Cristiano and remember all that fondly. Actually look back thinking I should have enjoyed it even more!!!
That said, leaving and spending most of his career elsewhere is a downer. Don't hold it against him, I understand his motivations, etc. but makes legend status somewhat off the table for me. Depends on whether pool size is 10, 20 or 30 really.
For now, let's see how this return pans out.
Yeah, for me, it was the absolute pinnacle of entertainment in my time supporting the club, seeing him progress from a gangly teenager to the most entertaining dominant force that I’ve ever seen in the premier league whilst helping us win everything at the same time was just dreamland.
Those last two seasons he brought a special kind of feeling that I’ve never had with a player before or since, you were just so excited to see him play every game because you knew he’d probably win the game for us, he just ripped teams apart himself back then but played in a brilliant United side as well… but he was the main man, no doubt about that.
Is that league? Wiki has 237 goals in 404 games for us and 237 certainly is correct. That's .59 so same thing, with ~300 games already under his belt from the wing Cristiano would need to surpass Rooney's absolute record on the way to getting that gpg
Yeah, Ronnie is not getting Rooney's record unless he plays for the next 3-4 years for us, as a starter throughout. I only looked at Transfermarkt, that's probably only league
2-3 years here maybe producing 50-70 goals, added to his previous body of work certainly gets him properly into legend status I'd say.
But I'd say he'd already got there, as how many players have we had who were world player of the year while playing for us? Fingers of one hand material.
Better than thinking about them all the time eh
Agree on the former. More so because if he did that it doesn't matter if he gets us to win the league or not, not doing it wouldn't be for lack of wanting/contribution. The flipside is if we miss top 4 this year and he then wants a move to stay in CL, that's decidedly not legend material. Only God knows
WPOTY makes you a great player, not a legend. The likes of Robbo, Keane, Rio, even Giggs, were never in that conversation but it takes nothing away from them.
For me a legend is someone who will instantly come to mind for all the good stuff when looking back through history. Ronaldo will be talked about for decades so he has to be a legend.
But whether he is a United legend is open to debate
But whether he is a United legend is open to debate
Ronaldo is a legend of the game, but I think that he is definitely a United legend too. One of only four players who won the Ballon d’Or playing for us, was the talisman of Fergie’s greatest ever team that won 3 leagues, 1 UCL and reached another final, and likely will be a top 10 scorer ever for United. No player in the modern era made fans go wild as much as him. His peak was arguably the best ever, at worst second best after Best. It took United’s fans to wait 3 decades for the Best’s successor, to see a young player grow into the best player in the world while playing for us. Considering that we have only two in the entire history of the club, I think it is ridiculous to not give to Ronaldo the legendary status.
It sucks that he gave his best to Madrid, but the version (and time) he gave to United was pretty good too. For example, he has given (by the end of the season) 2 years more than Cantona, and almost the double number of matches and goals. And no one would argue that King Eric wasn’t a legend here.
Just that he was an even bigger legend for Madrid, it does not make him not a legend for us.
It sucks that he gave his best to Madrid, but the version (and time) he gave to United was pretty good too. For example, he has given (by the end of the season) 2 years more than Cantona, and almost the double number of matches and goals. And no one would argue that King Eric wasn’t a legend here.
Just that he was an even bigger legend for Madrid, it does not make him not a legend for us.
Do you really think ronaldo will stay at Utd after this season if Ole stays at the wheel and again fails to delivery a single trophy?
I believe ronaldo is a one off, his fitness, rarely injured and the odd time he is it not for long. He will win the golden boot this season imo. However when he sits down and reflects on zero team silverware why would anyone expect him to them commit his finally playing years to more of the same?
The guy is a serial winner who's played and won everything with the top managers in the game. He has also fitted into a wide range of tactics adapting his game accordingly, he must despair inside at what's happening with Ole.
Jay
I believe ronaldo is a one off, his fitness, rarely injured and the odd time he is it not for long. He will win the golden boot this season imo. However when he sits down and reflects on zero team silverware why would anyone expect him to them commit his finally playing years to more of the same?
The guy is a serial winner who's played and won everything with the top managers in the game. He has also fitted into a wide range of tactics adapting his game accordingly, he must despair inside at what's happening with Ole.
Jay
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Ronaldo didn't move to Madrid to go toe to toe with Messi. He started pining for Madrid when he became world class in 2006 and only truly lost his mantle as the worlds best player to Messi in 2009, but Fergie could only convince to stay for one more season after 2008.
I don't know. I agree with your sentiment, but he was on the cusp of signing with Man City before we swooped in. not really stuff of legends. Now that he's there we might as well enjoy him.
Realistically he could overtake Ruud this season.
If he stayed 3 seasons he could possibly end his time here in the top 5 all time goalscorers list for us, which would be incredible.
Rooney also flirted with signing with City and wanted to go to Chelsea. Denis Law actually went to go and play for City (and scored in the match that cemented our relegation). Yet, both are United’s legends.
All our legends are cnuts. Best beat his wife and was an alcoholic, Rooney shagged granny, Denis, Schemicel, cole joined City, Giggs shagged his sisters wife for 8 years and Scholes sucks toes!
How dare you compare any of them to what Scholes did. It's completely unfair to them!
I know, but did you not also get the feeling after that game with Barca that we hadn't just lost the final but also 100% lost Cristiano?
Win that and it could all have been different (two CLs in a row? hard to walk away from that!), but you knew the impotence you felt throughout would be magnified by a factor of 10x if you were him. They were playing a different ballgame, Messi was taking him over, and being Cristiano you wouldn't want to hide away in the PL and get one or two showdowns a season, you would want every week to be about you or him.
That's why I say I understand his original motives (simply liking Madrid) and those that piled on as a competitive individual. I don't have a grudge like others do/did, but it does certainly count against him as a club legend.
I think all the City stuff was agent smoke and mirrors, not half bothered by it.
The Rooney stuff was more irritating but, again, agents and hangers on do have that sort of impact these days whenever a player and the club/manager are at odds. If he threatened to go back to Everton nobody would give a rat's, it has to be rivals, ergo, treason.
Poor to have a pop at Denis in a legends discussion. If anything it should be City fans angry he left them, gave us his best years, and returned for a single season, on a free, having scored a measly 2 goals in his last season with us. WE let him go. You also don't get relegated for a single goal conceded over an entire season. He didn't just not celebrate but retired right after. Absolute legend.
Ronaldo coming back helps his Legend status immensely, not that it could be argued before, but the argument is dead now.
My point was not having pop on anyone. At the contrary, my point was that just cause Rooney flirted with City, or in case of Law, actually joining City, it does not diminish their status as a legend at all. By the same metric, it shouldn't diminish Ronaldo's status.
I guess I could use your tagline
You never know these days. Every time I see a counterargument based on what some other player does/did I get a bit pissed. Too much running down of our own players going on, constantly.
Rooney record is here to stay for many years.
He would be the first player ever on the planet to reach 800 goals at top level.2 more goals to hit 800 career goals.
Absolutley ridiculous.
Edit: There are claims of Josef Bican being on 805+ goals, but those are highly unverified as I understand it.
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How do you know this? For sure?
A player who knew Ronaldo is on record as saying he "knew" that Ronaldo was coming here months before.
Didn't the media outlets report that his former united mates all contacted him to convince him not to spoil his man utd legacy?
I can't believe some are discussing whether Ronaldo is a legend because of his interest in joining the best team in England, especially after what Rooney did in the past.
Additionally, we know how clueless our board is and how much of a push they need to do something they haven't planned on doing. If Mendez and Ronaldo didn't orchestrate this transfer, he'd still be at Juventus.
Additionally, we know how clueless our board is and how much of a push they need to do something they haven't planned on doing. If Mendez and Ronaldo didn't orchestrate this transfer, he'd still be at Juventus.
Those Bican goals includes many games from reserve/regional level, so its not exactly from top level football. and majority of his goals are scored during world war period too.
Edit: There are claims of Josef Bican being on 805+ goals, but those are highly unverified as I understand it.
Here's the all time ranking from IFFHS for offical goals scored in top level football:
1. Ronaldo - 798 goals
2. Pele - 765 goals
3. Messi - 755 goals
4. Romario - 753 goals
5. Puskas - 729 goals
6. Bican - 720 goals
7. Jones - 647 goals
8. Muller - 634 goals
9. Eusebio - 622 goals
10. Bambrick - 616 goals
And here's the ranking from RSSSF for official goals scored in all level of football (including regional/lower league/youth football)
1. Helmchen - 982 goals
2. Bican - 948 goals
3. Rooke - 886 goals
4. Ronaldo - 816 goals
5. Puskas - 806 goals
6. Deak - 795 goals
7. Messi - 782 goals
8. Romario - 780 goals
9. Pele - 775 goals
10. Lenstra - 775 goals
Apparently Helmchen never play any top level football before, all of his goals are scored in lower league from Germany. Whereas Bican scored most of his goals during world war period even they are considered at top level, but also including handful from the reserve level. Similarly, Rooke is another player benefits during the wartime even at top level, but many of his goals are also scored from lower league football in England.
Hence, the player who scored most in top level, is indeed Ronaldo.
But to be fair, players like Pele and Muller did scored a lot more "unofficial" goals in friendlies too, just that its during the era where club would earn more money holding tour of exhibition games, so, they are not qualified as official matches, and to be fair those games in general are less competitive in nature, its like pre-season friendlies or something, so it just doesn't count.
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@RedRonaldo Excellent!
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Can we just play with the star ball every match?
We say goodbye to Choccy.
Manchester United’s all time leading goalscorers
Manchester United’s all time leading goalscorers
- Wayne Rooney
253 - Sir Bobby Charlton
249 - Denis Law
237 - Jack Rowley
211 - Dennis Viollet
179 - George Best
179 - Joe Spence
168 - Ryan Giggs
168 - Mark Hughes
163 - Paul Scholes
155 - Ruud van Nistelrooy
150 - Stan Pearson
148 - David Herd
145 - Tommy Taylor
131 - Cristiano Ronaldo
128 Brian McClair
127Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
126Andy Cole
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Touching distance of Taylor then, but after that a decent gap. But then three to reel in within a short range, and after that it then starts spreading out.
Poetically, I think he will get to 7.
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