Ronaldo vs Ronaldo

Revan said:
I have seen both of them at their best. Luis Ronaldo is a combination of nostalgia and 'what could have been'. One of the GOATs, who won one league title in Europe (playing for PSV, Barca, Inter, Real and Milan), reached only once semis of UCL, and scored less goals in UCL than Gabriel Jesus.

A good player and the best in the world for a year or two, but his peak is absurdly mythicized and his career is nowhere as good as some of the other GOATs.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like you're judging them purely based on stats and achievements.

R9s career was a disappointment but there is nothing mythicized about his peak. I am still waiting to see another player look so far ahead of their peers, especially when those peers included the likes of Maldini and Nesta. Messi is the only contender for that, not Cristiano.
 
lex talionis said:
Cristiano, without question. But I wonder how different this conclusion would be had Ronaldo was his peak self in the 1998 WC final v France.
Click to expand...

Maybe 3 World Cup wins in a row.
 
Thing is had R9 played alongside Messi, he would have not been romanticised as much because Messi would have been undoubtedly better by far.

CR7 having to share the stage with another top 3 all time contender makes his accomplishments taken for granted, he is definitely above R9 even if it isn't by a huge amount.
 
Brazilian Ronaldo had a slightly higher peak. Portuguese Ronaldo arguably had the greatest career ever, and would have 11 Balon d'Ors if not for Messi.

Brazilian Ronaldo was genuinely insane - he'd declined a bit by 2002 and still dominated the World Cup. He was like a combination of Mbappe and Messi (minus the playmaking) - that pace!

 
From 17-20 years old R9
Post 20 years old CR7 until who knows when he retires.
 
lex talionis said:
Cristiano, without question. But I wonder how different this conclusion would be had Ronaldo was his peak self in the 1998 WC final v France.
Click to expand...
France would have still won considering that they were the better team (to some degree cause they had the better player in the pitch).
 
11101 said:
Sounds to me like you're judging them purely based on stats and achievements.

R9s career was a disappointment but there is nothing mythicized about his peak. I am still waiting to see another player look so far ahead of their peers, especially when those peers included the likes of Maldini and Nesta. Messi is the only contender for that, not Cristiano.
Click to expand...
Well, achievements matter. If Ronaldo did not win WC in 2002 (and reach the finals in 1998) he would not have got the respect he got.

Similarly, it works the other way around that he failed in club level. Went to PSV for two years, they could not win the league. The season he left, they won it. He couldn’t win the league with Barca, but the season he leaves, they win the league. Joined Real after they won three UCLs in the last 5 years (including 2 months before he joined). Couldn’t win UCL, though he won the league in his first season. Then couldn’t win it, but the season he gets replaced with RvN, they won the league.

Doing fancy stepovers and having occasional games when he destroyed other teams is great, but he was never able to do it in such a consistent basis as to lead his teams to glory. And they weren’t shit teams, as I show by them winning the leagues immediately when he left. Even at his absolute peak, the gap between him and other top strikers was not as big as between RoMessi and the others. And to be fair, I think that Zidane was the better player anyway (though in a totally different position).
 
Revan said:
Well, achievements matter. If Ronaldo did not win WC in 2002 (and reach the finals in 1998) he would not have got the respect he got.

Similarly, it works the other way around that he failed in club level. Went to PSV for two years, they could not win the league. The season he left, they won it. He couldn’t win the league with Barca, but the season he leaves, they win the league. Joined Real after they won three UCLs in the last 5 years (including 2 months before he joined). Couldn’t win UCL, though he won the league in his first season. Then couldn’t win it, but the season he gets replaced with RvN, they won the league.

Doing fancy stepovers and having occasional games when he destroyed other teams is great, but he was never able to do it in such a consistent basis as to lead his teams to glory. And they weren’t shit teams, as I show by them winning the leagues immediately when he left. Even at his absolute peak, the gap between him and other top strikers was not as big as between RoMessi and the others. And to be fair, I think that Zidane was the better player anyway (though in a totally different position).
Click to expand...

Failed? :lol:

PSV. First season, Ajax were possibly the best in Europe and finished unbeaten. Second season, he missed half the season due to injury but had a 12 in 13 record.
Barcelona, maybe they would have won the league if he wasn't playing for Brazil at the same time Barcelona lost a vital game.
How is it not doing it consistently when he only failed to score in 5 league games for Barcelona after January? He scored 1 in 7 because he played through injury at a CL game. There's so many variables that occur and it isn't as simple as "Well he didn't win a league so he failed".


And we all know the 'Zidane y Pavon' era was a mess. Pavon in particular crying his eyes out on the bench because he was thrust into a position he wasn't good enough for
 
Revan said:
Well, achievements matter. If Ronaldo did not win WC in 2002 (and reach the finals in 1998) he would not have got the respect he got.

Similarly, it works the other way around that he failed in club level. Went to PSV for two years, they could not win the league. The season he left, they won it. He couldn’t win the league with Barca, but the season he leaves, they win the league. Joined Real after they won three UCLs in the last 5 years (including 2 months before he joined). Couldn’t win UCL, though he won the league in his first season. Then couldn’t win it, but the season he gets replaced with RvN, they won the league.

Doing fancy stepovers and having occasional games when he destroyed other teams is great, but he was never able to do it in such a consistent basis as to lead his teams to glory. And they weren’t shit teams, as I show by them winning the leagues immediately when he left. Even at his absolute peak, the gap between him and other top strikers was not as big as between RoMessi and the others. And to be fair, I think that Zidane was the better player anyway (though in a totally different position).
Click to expand...

Zidane would tell you himself he was never the better player.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Thing is had R9 played alongside Messi, he would have not been romanticised as much because Messi would have been undoubtedly better by far.

CR7 having to share the stage with another top 3 all time contender makes his accomplishments taken for granted, he is definitely above R9 even if it isn't by a huge amount.
Click to expand...

Sorry that’s laughable, how would he look worst when he would get more chances to score?
 
altodevil said:
maxresdefault.jpg

Ronaldo Luis vs Cristiano Ronaldo
R9 vs CR7
Fat Ronaldo vs Sexy Ronaldo

Who in your opinion had the better peak? For me it is Ronaldo by a long way.

Who had the better career? Due to injuries, Cristiano probably edges it, the way I see it.
Click to expand...
Career wise it's not even close. R9 had a stunted career due to injury. Only getting to do half of what he was truly capable of. Is world cup return and win was considered miraculous as a result. CR7 has done it all bar winning the world cup. Being fit all through.
 
Revan said:
Cause Messi would have scored more than him, while having a superior all-round play.
Click to expand...

I agree but I wonder where Ronaldo would be deployed. I assume Messi is central in this imaginary line up? Ronaldo out wide would be intriguing.
 
Revan said:
Cause Messi would have scored more than him, while having a superior all-round play.
Click to expand...

Which is the same with the other Ronaldo, Messi scores more or as much as him him while having way superior all round play....
 
Righteous Steps said:
Sorry that’s laughable, how would he look worst when he would get more chances to score?
Click to expand...
I meant had R9 shared the stage with Messi the same way CR7 has, he would not have been as big a deal, because Messi would be undoubtedly better.
 
Anyone saying Brazilian Ronaldo are romantics, yes he was great and when the injuries took him we were all left with the "what could have been feeling" but Cristiano definitely had a better peak, we are talking about a player who scored 60 goals in a season. 60 freaking goals.

There's no comparison at all.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Anyone saying Brazilian Ronaldo are romantics, yes he was great and when the injuries took him we were all left with the "what could have been feeling" but Cristiano definitely had a better peak, we are talking about a player who scored 60 goals in a season. 60 freaking goals.

There's no comparison at all.
Click to expand...

In that case you would discard Maradona In pretty much the same way..

And what’s football without romanticism anyways.
 
Righteous Steps said:
In that case you would discard Maradona In pretty much the same way..

And what’s football without romanticism anyways.
Click to expand...

Maradona is more of a myth, he carried Napoli and Argentina by his own.

Ronaldo isn't close to this, yes he was a vital player but no where near Maradona's influence level.

Romanticism is a vital part I agree, after all football is an emotional game, but the difference between Ronaldo and Cristiano is so big that I dont think there shouldn't even be a debate to be honest.
 
This tread is just a bit to much.

CR7 he carried a real madrid to 4 CL trophys.
Ronaldo won 3 with a stacked team that was good even when he did not play.

I think alot of people here saw to littel of Luiz Ronaldo, if they only remeber that day on Old Trafford then yes, he was pretty insane. but,
Luiz Ronaldos best season ever at Madrid he scored 31 goals at 48 games, CR7 not ONCE came that low hes whole career at Madrid. A middel good season for CR7 would be around 50 goals.

Stat wise they are world apart. Even when breaking it down to a singel season. The tread would be far better if it was who had the singel best game.
 
Ronaldo was the better player, Cristiano had the better career. It's that easy honestly. In an era of super teams the Brazilian would've been impossible to stop. Those that say some are judging it on potential don't quite understand. It wasn't potential, Ronaldo already was arguably the best player to have played the game by the time he got injured.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Ronaldo was the better player, Cristiano had the better career. It's that easy honestly. In an era of super teams the Brazilian would've been impossible to stop. Those that say some are judging it on potential don't quite understand. It wasn't potential, Ronaldo already was arguably the best player to have played the game by the time he got injured.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't you say that a player who was guaranteed to score at least one goal a game for 10+ years is impossible to stop already? There's not much farther one can go from there really.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Wouldn't you say that a player who was guaranteed to score at least one goal a game for 10+ years is impossible to stop already? There's not much farther one can go from there really.
Click to expand...

No I remember a couple Cl Finals where he was stopped only to be bailed out by Modrić Di Maria or Bale.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Wouldn't you say that a player who was guaranteed to score at least one goal a game for 10+ years is impossible to stop already? There's not much farther one can go from there really.
Click to expand...
I suppose but he's been stopped plenty on the international stage. Ronaldo did damage differently. In a more enjoyable, workmanlike way. He'd genuinely ragdoll a defence. I can't imagine reams trying to stop him in this era of one sided games with his team able to give him the ball 100 times a match. On top of that with refs who side with the attacker all the time. It would be comical.
 
Righteous Steps said:
No I remember a couple Cl Finals where he was stopped only to be bailed out by Modrić Di Maria or Bale.
Click to expand...

I don't think being the matchwinner in every major final should be the metric espcially if the players previous goals is what got you to do the final in the first place.
 
Righteous Steps said:
No I remember a couple Cl Finals where he was stopped only to be bailed out by Modrić Di Maria or Bale.
Click to expand...
Your answer gives it away. There's a reason CR7 played "a couple of CL finals"; that's not something every player does, to say the least.
 
Shamana said:
I don't think being the matchwinner in every major final should be the metric espcially if the players previous goals is what got you to do the final in the first place.
Click to expand...

It shouldn’t but if for example someone had popped up for Ronaldo in World Cup 1998 it would do even more for his legacy, football is still very much a team game, despite anyone’s greatness.
 
Righteous Steps said:
It shouldn’t but if for example someone had popped up for Ronaldo in World Cup 1998 it would do even more for his legacy, football is still very much a team game, despite anyone’s greatness.
Click to expand...

This is why I don't much as much emphasis on that narrow window in finals as some do. Of course it matters and of course it enhances your legacy, but I prefer a sustained and consistent peak over those few moments where someone gets a winner in a final. I think Zidane as great as he was is overrated for this reason. He bossed some big games and was without doubt a great player, but I feel he gets put in the God tier a bit too often for this reason.
 
Shamana said:
This is why I don't much as much emphasis on that narrow window in finals as some do. Of course it matters and of course it enhances your legacy, but I prefer a sustained and consistent peak over those few moments where someone gets a winner in a final. I think Zidane as great as he was is overrated for this reason. He bossed some big games and was without doubt a great player, but I feel he gets put in the God tier a bit too often for this reason.
Click to expand...
In addition, world cup performances are the consistent factor in players being put in a legendary bracket, with the obvious conclusion being that world cup performances are overrated.

And it's easy to see why, football transcends just fans and enters the general consciousness during the world cup, creating national legends out of players who arguably were not as good as their legacy suggests.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Ronaldo was the better player, Cristiano had the better career. It's that easy honestly. In an era of super teams the Brazilian would've been impossible to stop. Those that say some are judging it on potential don't quite understand. It wasn't potential, Ronaldo already was arguably the best player to have played the game by the time he got injured.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with that assessment, I think CR7 is an all-time legend, but when it comes to pure talent and peak level of football, he's not above R9 or Messi for that matter.
 
R9 had a better international career and CR7 had a better club career.
Personally I think R9 was a better player. CR7 had a a better overall career.
 
Revan said:
France would have still won considering that they were the better team (to some degree cause they had the better player in the pitch).
Click to expand...

You might be right about that, but after taking a quick look at the Brazil roster to refreshify my memory as to who was on that squad, I wouldn’t be so quick to embrace that conclusion.

Just a few names beyond Ronaldo: Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Dunga, Rivaldo and Leonardo. That’s a pretty stacked squad.

We all remember Brazil getting dismembered by France, but the chaos surrounding Ronaldo that day fekked the players. Brazil we’re headed to toe as good as what was a phenomenal France side.

Point of this is to say that even though I still give the edge to Cristiano, had “proper”:lol: Ronaldo led his side to World Cup wins this would be a different conversation. But he didn’t so it’s not.
 
He'sRaldo said:
In addition, world cup performances are the consistent factor in players being put in a legendary bracket, with the obvious conclusion being that world cup performances are overrated.

And it's easy to see why, football transcends just fans and enters the general consciousness during the world cup, creating national legends out of players who arguably were not as good as their legacy suggests.
Click to expand...
It's the biggest stage in the sport. Only on this forum would people try to discredit the biggest stage in any game. Pressure breaks pipes, and that's where the most pressure is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.