Ronaldo creates groupings and disrupt the United locker room?

I can believe that. Had we keep playing like last season, we would be comfortably top 4 right now.

But for better or worse, Ronaldo coming in shows what a bunch of petulant children our players are.
 
flappyjay said:
In a classroom at school you didn't hangout with all the guys, you were cool with them but there were 2 or 3 who were your close friends. In all walks of life its the same even a squad of soldiers who depend on each other for life they still have those that are closer to them. From a social perspective it would be weird if there weren't any friend groups. Only problem is if these groups antagonize each other then that's a different story.
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That last sentence is exactly what cliques entail, shunning others and generally being really disruptive
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
How many fewer did we score in 2019/2020? What changed there?

Confidence is massive in football, and after that run of absolute humiliations this season, many players have never recovered that confidence. We also brought in a manager mid season after that horrendous run, with new ideas, and it appears, who has a loathing for a tonne of players.

It’s not exactly a like for like comparison. Up until those humiliations began, we’d actually scored 17 in 10 games. That rate would have put us on 90 goals for the season so far. When you remember that we had a few freak games last year (Roma), played more games (61), played in easier competitions (EL), it’s not far off, until the humiliations, 1.7 gpg over 61 games would be 104 goals.

Also @Pogue Mahone, a few other things have clearly changed.

1. Cavani is permanently injured
2. Our wide forward positions are now occupied by new players. Sancho & Elanga now play as first choice on the wings, Sancho was automatically first choice from early doors, and both offer much less goal threat than those who previously played there.
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7 of those goals 17 scored in just 3 games. The 3 games before Ronaldo joined.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
7 of those goals 17 scored in just 3 games. The 3 games before Ronaldo joined.
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pah, we scored 25 of those goals in 4 games last season.

Southampton, Roma, Leeds, Newcastle.

You’re also a little sneaky there Pogue as we won 5-1 against Leeds, then were wank for two games and could barely create a chance. Then Ronaldo played and starred in a 4-1, which all but evens up the Leeds game.

And why are we still ignoring that Martial, Rashford, Greenwood (scored 40 last season) have for the main been replaced, with wingers who don’t score? Sancho (5), Elanga (3).
 
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Majima said:
Our British players are a bunch of losers with inflated egos, on massive wages. If they've been marginalised I'm glad. Hopefully they all leave.
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I could imagine Ronaldo shoulder barging Maguire and taking his lunch money :lol:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Apparently we’ve scored FIFTY fewer goals this season than last. Ronaldo’s scored a bunch but nobody else even looks like scoring. This article is probably bollox but I’d like to hear theories on why the arrival of a player who’s scored as many goals as Ronaldo has resulted in our goals total falling off a cliff?

Complete coincidence? Something that’s changed on the pitch? Or something that’s changed off the pitch?

Can only be one of those three things, right?
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Surely the coincidence is that all of last year’s top four scorers have become hopeless all at once:

Cavani (17) perma-crocked
Greenwood (12) er, unavailable for selection
Rashford (21) form has nosedived; goal tally last season disguised underlying issues
Bruno (28) included 13 penalties

Brackets include all competitions; there have been fewer games this season because of early cup exits.

Surely Ronaldo can’t be blamed for Greenwood?

Cavani? If his injuries are made up and being used as cover for his having taken his bat home because he’s no longer the Older Statesman then that’s pathetic, and not Ronaldo’s fault in the slightest. I also very much doubt it’s true, though a weird anti-Cavani sect that’s emerged recently may well believe it.

Rashford and Bruno? It’s possible that the style of football (if you can call it that) we’ve been playing this season is less conducive to their style of play, and also less penalty-rich; consequently there may be factors affecting their numbers other than just loss of form. But the course Ole was taking to move the team on from a pure counter-attacking setup was under way well before Ronaldo was signed, so it’s possible that their collapse in scoring would have happened anyway.

I was against Ronaldo’s signing, not because I thought he’d be crap but because I knew it wasn’t being done for footballing reasons. I’d have much rather we had signed a hard working up-and-coming striker. I’m no Ronaldo fanboy, but it does seem that the arguments being made to blame his presence for our struggles this season can be countered with fact and logic.
 
Moaning and sulking because they’re being shown up no doubt, instead of making the most of a massive opportunity. Part timers.
 
Rashford was put on the right early doors to bizarrely accommodate Sancho, his form nosedived with the move. Ronaldo’s fault?

Martial had been edged out for his poor form last season by Cavani, who ended up perma injured. Unless Ronnie is injuring him in training, not sure how he can be blamed here.

Greenwood, the less said the better.

A blind man should see our wingers have been a massive problem, Sancho doesn’t score, Elanga doesn’t score, whereas Rashford and Greenwood especially were real goal threats.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
pah, we scored 25 of those goals in 4 games last season.

Southampton, Roma, Leeds, Newcastle.

You’re also a little sneaky there Pogue as we won 5-1 against Leeds, then were wank for two games and could barely create a chance. Then Ronaldo played and starred in a 4-1, which all but evens up the Leeds game.

And why are we still ignoring that Martial, Rashford, Greenwood (scored 40 last season) have for the main been replaced, with wingers who don’t score? Sancho (5), Elanga (3).
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Some of the attacking play in that game was breathtakingly brilliant. Leeds’ midfield was completely open though as, alarmingly, was ours. I was a proper Jeremiah on the tram afterwards, advising my mates not to get over-giddy. How right I was :angel:
 
No particular side is 'winning'. They're all cnuts. And I'll be glad to see the back of all of them, which is unlikely unfortunately.
 
Wasn't Greenwood's poor form also Ronaldo's fault?
Then the truth came out about him..if the "british contingent" feel like Ronaldo has affected their performances then they are all mentally weak and should not be playing for a club like United.
 
I don't know how fans can pick a side in this reported tiff. They've all been culpable in performing absolutely trash for us throughout the campaign.
 
If ETH supports Ronaldo's view about some players that are problematic, I think he might stay. But if ETH acts neutral and try not to give anyone a favour over others which I think he would do, Ronaldo will leave.
 
FrankDrebin said:
I don't know how fans can pick a side in this reported tiff. They've all been culpable in performing absolutely trash for us throughout the campaign.
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It’s got nothing to do with “picking a side”.

A single player has been accused of single-handedly destroying the esprit-de-corps of the dressing room. People (NOT all Ronaldo fanboys) have rightly pointed out that the accusation is absurd.

They have indeed all been culpable; Ronaldo has had plenty of stinkers himself, though he’s also had more good games than a lot of the others.
 
Polar said:
I had a hypothesis and when I read a credible person has facts supporting it, I off course find it interesting.

I’m not blind for opposite facts. Ronaldo’s birthday picture probably also say something. Most players attended. I would definitely not join the birthday to a person who treats me as shit and ruin my days at work, but wouldn’t be surprised if some players lack integrity. Who wasn’t there and what’s their agenda?

In the longer run I tend to think we really needed to hit the ground (poor results and disruption among players) in order to finally shake up things and smoke out players. A common understanding where everyone agree an overhaul is needed. We probably need winners mentality and professionalism before happy family.
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There you go..
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Ronaldo has never ever been cited as a poor influence in the dressing room in any of his past teams.

It's BS.
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Not entirely true. Buffon said this of him.

“Juve had the chance to win the Champions League the first year he arrived, which was the year I was at Paris Saint-Germain, and I couldn’t figure out what happened,”

“When I returned, I worked with CR7 for two years and we did well together, but I think Juve lost that DNA of being a team.

“We reached the Champions League Final in 2017 because we were a side full of experience, but above all we were a single unit and there was this competition for places within the group that was very strong. We lost that with Ronaldo.”

There‘s been a lot of talk in Italy that he broke the unity of the squad.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Not entirely true. Buffon said this of him.

“Juve had the chance to win the Champions League the first year he arrived, which was the year I was at Paris Saint-Germain, and I couldn’t figure out what happened,”

“When I returned, I worked with CR7 for two years and we did well together, but I think Juve lost that DNA of being a team.

“We reached the Champions League Final in 2017 because we were a side full of experience, but above all we were a single unit and there was this competition for places within the group that was very strong. We lost that with Ronaldo.”
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He doesn’t actually say anything there though does he?

He could absolutely be referring to Ronaldo being more of a focus which lead to some other players not quite working as a team any longer. Ronaldo personally being a poor influence isn’t even mentioned.

He has an opinion that they had a chance to win the CL in 2019, er? Yet City & Liverpool were clearly better. His reasoning “we were in the final in 2017”, erm yeah but in 2018 you went out in the quarters despite “working as a team”.

So 2018 quarter final exit was no-ones fault
yet…
2019 quarter final exit was Ronaldo’s fault.

Kin ell :lol:
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
He doesn’t actually say anything there does he?

He could absolutely be referring to Ronaldo being more of a focus which lead to some other players not quite working as a team any longer. Ronaldo personally being a poor influence isn’t even mentioned.
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I suppose it depends how you want to interpret it. To say that Ronaldo has never been accused of undermining a team and dressing room is wrong though. It has been talked about it Italy a fair bit in the press regarding Juventus.
 
Yeah I suspect he is creating some kind of division purely based off his work ethic.

He's come into a team expecting to challenge for the title, and found a bunch of players with zero apatite for hard work and who have been pandered to and wrapped in cotton wool. He's raised the standard and suddenly Rashford, Martial, Maguire etc simply aren't up to matching his work ethic and he's making them look bad so they leak stuff to the press.

Oh Bruno and Varane are in Ronaldo's clique are they? Well well, who would have thought Bruno a driven guy who has carried this team for 2 seasons and Varane a serial winner share the same opinions as Ronaldo. We want a team full of these guys (which we used to have - high standards, serial driven winners) These guys are Manchester United players. We've had a team full of Maguires/Martials for the past 8 years and it's gotten us to this petulant mediocrity which obviously these players want to maintain as it suits them to a T. I'm looking forwards to ETH coming in and starting to clean house. I absolutely fecking gurantee that the "trouble makers" Of Ronnie, Bruno, varane etc will be going no where and the hard done by English contingent will be out the door.
 
I find it weird that people seem to be taking sides against the English players. Have the non-English players been good? Am I missing something?

Fernandes is the biggest whinger in the team; he has it on full display every match. Pogba does not give a crap. Cavani is on a permanent holiday. Do Telles and Dalot really try any hard than Wan Bissaka and Shaw? The stats don't say they do. It is just a weird thing to take sides when they are all useless.
 
Anyone who has an issue with Ronaldo is probably just insecure about their own work ethic and mentality compared to his.

I can see why Ronaldo would be an intimidating figure to a lot of the current lot.
 
Zen86 said:
There aren’t cliques in every dressing room at all. Cliques are toxic and exclusionary by definition, and yes it always impacts performance on the field. See England’s ‘golden generation’ as an example.
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Cliques are an issue generally though. Guardiola made City install a circular dressing to combat against it. He also only allows English to be spoken.
 
Revaulx said:
Did we? Drew 0-0 away (which wasn’t a bad result, but hadn’t their injury “crisis” begun by then?) and got hammered 2-4 at home.
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Yes, that´s right, we lost in that postponed game after the protests, but we beat them in the cup though, and deserved the win in the draw.

Looking at single matches is not the point anyway; for broad parts of last season we looked like a team with players working for each other. I´m not pointing at Ronaldo as "the explanation" for our fall, that would be too simple, but neither do I believe that "tactics" or "a bunch of untalented (English) losers" would serve alone as explanations either. When Lingard tells Scholes the dressing room is a mess, and when sources inside the club tell Langerød Ronaldo is a major part of that, we should not dismiss the possibility or some truth in that, just because Ronaldo is scoring goals.

That said, if we were winning games, I´m sure the atmosphere in the dressing room would have been much better.
 
This reeks of clickbait. It's clear that if the rest of the squad had half of Ronaldo's drive and work ethic we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.
 
Dve said:
Yes, that´s right, we lost in that postponed game after the protests, but we beat them in the cup though, and deserved the win in the draw.

Looking at single matches is not the point anyway; for broad parts of last season we looked like a team with players working for each other. I´m not pointing at Ronaldo as "the explanation" for our fall, that would be too simple, but neither do I believe that "tactics" or "a bunch of untalented (English) losers" would serve alone as explanations either. When Lingard tells Scholes the dressing room is a mess, and when sources inside the club tell Langerød Ronaldo is a major part of that, we should not dismiss the possibility or some truth in that, just because Ronaldo is scoring goals.

That said, if we were winning games, I´m sure the atmosphere in the dressing room would have been much better.
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The dressing room can be a mess because:

• Varane took Lindelöf spot
• Sancho got Rashford shifted to RW
• Cavani had taken Martial’s place, and was begged to stay, despite clearly stating he wanted to feck off home.
• Getting humiliated by Leicester, Liverpool, City, Watford caused (I fecking hope) massive disharmony.
• New manager came in and half the squad think he’s a prick, the other half don’t. That alone could cause a massive rift.
• Greenwood situation was horrendous for the dressing room
• Players leaving and giving zero fecks (Lingard, Pogba) is bad for the dressing room.

The way this season has gone since we got twatted by Leicester, expecting harmony in the dressing room is so stupidly naive it’s hurts my brain.

But sure, it’s one bloke’s fault, our best outfield player :lol:
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
The dressing room can be a mess because:

• Varane took Lindelöf spot
• Sancho got Rashford shifted to RW
• Cavani had taken Martial’s place, and was begged to stay, despite clearly stating he wanted to feck off home.
• Getted humiliated by Leicester, Liverpool, City, Watford caused (I fecking hope) massive disharmony.
• New manager came in and half the squad think he’s a prick, the other half don’t. That alone could cause a massive rift.
• Greenwood situation was horrendous for the dressing room

• Players leaving and giving zero fecks (Lingard, Pogba) is bad for the dressing room.

But sure, it’s one bloke’s fault, our best outfield player :lol:
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Yes, but best outfield player, which proves it cannot be true.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Cliques are an issue generally though. Guardiola made City install a circular dressing to combat against it. He also only allows English to be spoken.
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They are, and it’s only natural really. Strong leaders and culture are needed to prevent them from becoming too big an issue. We unfortunately have neither.
 
Frank Grimes said:
Was never a fan of Ronaldo coming back but he has shone a light on some of our overhyped players. If it means we're rid of this element It will have worked out well.
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I agree, going back in almost any situation is always fraught with danger for the individual and the organisation to which they return. However, in this case CR has, indeed (whether deliberately or unintentionally), shone a light. Not only to the players but also the fans, he shows or reminds us of the levels of performance we use to take for granted.

CR seems to have done what the previous managers have failed to do, stirred up a hornets nest, i.e. 'the storming' element in managing performance theory. We now need ETH to take us through the final two elements of the theory to 'norming' and then on to 'performing' , but most likely it will be with a different mix of players, so its likely that the managing performance theory cycle may need to start again!
 
Get me started on Bruno. The guy whinges as much as anyone and passes the ball like a fecking 5 year old.
 
Stop giving moronic articles like this more attention than they deserve. We all blame them, but it’s ultimately the people who read and talk about these articles that are the main problem.
 
Dve said:
Yes, that´s right, we lost in that postponed game after the protests, but we beat them in the cup though, and deserved the win in the draw.

Looking at single matches is not the point anyway; for broad parts of last season we looked like a team with players working for each other. I´m not pointing at Ronaldo as "the explanation" for our fall, that would be too simple, but neither do I believe that "tactics" or "a bunch of untalented (English) losers" would serve alone as explanations either. When Lingard tells Scholes the dressing room is a mess, and when sources inside the club tell Langerød Ronaldo is a major part of that, we should not dismiss the possibility or some truth in that, just because Ronaldo is scoring goals.

That said, if we were winning games, I´m sure the atmosphere in the dressing room would have been much better.
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We looked like a team when we had a simple plan of counterattack. I’m not sure the change of tactics helped; I just don’t think many of the players could cope.
 
Polar said:
Ronaldo has a two year contract and it doesn’t matter what Ronaldo wants (in theory).

He’s been our best player and so it wouldn’t make sense to sell him for that reason. It wouldn’t be easy to replace him without paying a shitload of money (we preferable should spend on reinforcing other positions). The exemption is if Ronaldo has CL clause in his contract.

Why should we otherwise want to sell our best and most professional player? If he is our best player, “the fitting into ETH style” isn’t a good enough argument. I’ll also argue age isn’t a valid explanation when we talk about only one more year of his contract.
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So he's under contract, he's our best and most professional player, it's hard to replace him, so if he left it must be "he's disrupting the dressing room"?

But this already happened before with Ronaldo. We have to sell him even though he was under contract, was our best player and it's impossible to replace him, did he also disrupt the dressing room back then, or do we have to sell him because that's what he wants?

Why it doesn't matter what player wants when they are in contract? Club has to sell players all the time because they want to move. Otherwise in your "theory", all transfers should be free transfers because only out-of-contract players can move?

Why age isn't a valid explanation when we are talking about a 38-year-old forward? It may be only 1 year for us but it can be the last year for Ronaldo to play at the highest level?

Also if Ten Hag wants a different profile of forward why is it not "a good enough argument"? Do you think we should force players on managers again?

Why do you answer only 1 question among the 3 in my post? You said it was "easy" so it should not take much time/effort for you to prove your point, right?

Pogue Mahone said:
Apparently we’ve scored FIFTY fewer goals this season than last. Ronaldo’s scored a bunch but nobody else even looks like scoring. This article is probably bollox but I’d like to hear theories on why the arrival of a player who’s scored as many goals as Ronaldo has resulted in our goals total falling off a cliff?
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We also go further in CL than last season, can we also give all the credit to Ronaldo, the same as some people seem to blame Ronaldo for our form dropping in the EPL?

Also, do you think we should drop from CL into Europa League like last year? So we have a lot more games again weak opponents to score a lot more goals?

Cavani was injured almost full time this year why he was not last year. Is it because of Ronaldo too? Is Greenwood getting arrested because of Ronaldo? Rashford can't run because of Ronaldo?

Pogue Mahone said:
Complete coincidence? Something that’s changed on the pitch? Or something that’s changed off the pitch?

Can only be one of those three things, right?
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Why is that "Can only be one of those three things, right?" - It's obviously all these reasons, as in every single season:

Something that's changed on/off the pitch? We bought a lot of players, other teams also bought a lot of players. Chelsea got Tuchell for a full season. Liverpool got a healthy squad for a full season. Spurs got Conte. Arsenal got 1 more year under Arteta, and they buy a lot of players too. Do you think only changes from our team count?

I don't get why this is an argument, to be honest. Teams changed from season to season. Other teams improve. Fan's back (mean more pressure). More strict penalty rules. Other teams understand our play better. Too many reasons to list.

It's funny why people keep on harping about last season like we did so good back then, when in reality we won nothing, with low total points. Why is that? I would understand if we won something last season or played great football, but that's not the case.
 
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Revaulx said:
We looked like a team when we had a simple plan of counterattack. I’m not sure the change of tactics helped; I just don’t think many of the players could cope.
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Not sure I agree with that. Last season we were able to dominate games with possession, it wasn't all about counter attacks. That's more descriptive of how we played the season before.
 
chicha14 said:
Wasn't Greenwood's poor form also Ronaldo's fault?
Then the truth came out about him..if the "british contingent" feel like Ronaldo has affected their performances then they are all mentally weak and should not be playing for a club like United.
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The worst thing is there's probably merit to both sides being a problem. I believe Ronaldo might be a bother in the locker room (great winner, toxic loser like most greats) but there's no one else to side with because the others aren't exactly closer to United standard. What leg do they have to stand on?

Ole brought in british core to avoid cliques but unintentionally empowered exactly that. Maguire's captaincy hasn't survived Ronaldo's aura and it probably never had a chance because it wasn't earned organically. He got it as soon as he left the airport.

On the other end bringing Ronaldo without a vision for how he wanted to play or regard to locker room dynamics was more "masterclass" management. ETH already has a fair bit of homework to sort out.
 
So the narrative that he's a problem on the pitch has eroded and now they have to spin it as actually being off the pitch. Pathetic.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
A pile of shite i suspect. People are desperate to discredit Ronaldo but without him where would we be this season? He’s the least of our problems. If everyone in the squad had his mentality we wouldn’t be in this position.
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A different flavour of nowhere?
 
Nah, a correct translation should be - Ronaldo upsets some of the spineless, over paid laggards at Manchester United because he has brought back the culture of seniority and accountability that used to exist in successful United teams, a culture that those who are gutless, social media-addicted and happy to collect ridiculous salaries without producing find threatening.

Ronaldo is a pure winner, is still hungry for success despite his multi millions and staggeringly successful record and has to put up with those kinds of players. If Ten Hag is going to be successful, he will not be able to do it just based on youthful hunger and talent - United sorely need a return to leadership from older players.
 
Ronaldo's gang :lol: I can clearly see Juan Mata arriving on his Harley in a leather jacket blowing cigarette smoke in Harry Maguire's scared face.
 
Let's face it, Ronaldo walks into carraington and sees Jones, Lingard, Maguire, Shaw, Mctominay, Martial and thinks WTF.

Can't blame him for avoiding them.
 
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