Rui Patricio
Carvalho
Renato Sanches
Adrien Silva
Joao Mario
All these players played in finals and almost all games.
Romelu Lukaku | Chelsea
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
Rui Patricio
Carvalho
Renato Sanches
Adrien Silva
Joao Mario
All these players played in finals and almost all games.
Gah feck me fair enough - got my wires crossed and somehow swapped around the 2018 and 2016 sides. Still though, I wouldn't call any of those the top players in the side for Portugal whereas for Italy the standout players were mostly those in Serie A (if you'll kindly permit me to grasp at a straw or two!)
Personally I think it speaks to the quality of the league - obviously these things don't directly translate but it's not like we're talking about some low-tier backwater. The fact that a team built on players from this league won a prestigious tournament is evidence that there is quality there.
Also I think you're hugely overlooking Atalanta. They've been very impressive in Europe of late.
Majority of Portugal players play abroad, majority of Italy players play in Serie A. Saying the Premier League is better isn’t the same as saying Serie A is just shit. Actually it’s more entertaining to watch teams like Sassuolo or Napoli than Burnley or Leicester, but that’s football taste, not the same as saying Serie A is the best league in the world.
@roonster09 is right that a couple of players still played at the time in Liga NOS but the majority of the squad still played abroad, and the point wasn’t to compare Série A with the Premier League, but for me Serie A has improved the general style of play, another thing is having the financial means to compete with England.
Different things we’re talking here.
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I watch a lot of Serie A, if I didn’t and read this forum I would think it was a Sunday level league. The caf calls every league outside the PL crap. Serie A is lower than the PL and La Liga but the level is high
Yeah. Most entertaining is a matter of taste, different people enjoy different leagues.
Currently I think La Liga is at the worst level I can remember, for me currently bellow Serie A and Bundesliga, of course on a global level the Premier is the best, and this said by someone who when joined the forum in 2016 said the Premier League at that time was hyped and that Leicester team wouldn’t had won any of the other top 4 leagues.
The PL was seriously overhyped a few years ago. Most called it the best yet Real Madrid won more CL in 5 season than we did in our history mix that in with Seville winning EL nearly every year. So most said overall level of PL was higher which was questionable.
Right now the PL is the strongest as in the top teams but the rest of the league isn’t as high as people think. The top 4 now is so high but outside is hit and miss.
I don’t know if I agree about Serie A though. Yes RM and Barca are nowhere near the level they were I still feel it’s a stronger league. Also Juve are awful and while the top teams are getting more equal and better in Serie A it’s still below La Liga for me
I know I am going a bit off topic here, but for me the turning point started exactly at 2016, with Klopp, Guardiola and Conte coming to the League and already with the vast money to invest compared with other leagues, it refreshed and improved the overall level of coaching, possibly Klopp joined 1 year before, but it’s evident the gap between the Premier and the other leagues increased, there’s no discussion on that.
Which is different to say there aren’t top coaches outside the EPL, more evident on the Bundesliga and Série A than La Liga or Ligue 1 at this point.
No one was saying Lukaku would reproduce the same numbers as in Italy, but it was clear he benefited from working under Conte.
The PL has the money for example Leeds when in the Championship got more TV money than all of the BL or Serie A. A few seasons ago the league lacked the best coaches which now it doesn’t. Add the best coaches, players and money it’s obvious why the PL is so high.
Lukaku was great in the PL he only really underwhelmed here and yes Conte made him better so he obviously will score and do well cot Chelsea.
Serie A is more competitive and yes it’s so underrated by most PL fans it still for me falls behind La Liga and maybe even BL but it’s nowhere near what it was 5 years ago and is still improving
Mate he looked better because he was in a poorer league. Serie A isn’t what it used to be at all, especially in depth. And a squad of quality Italians winning the Euros doesn’t change that fact.
I’m also still scratching my head at this new Lukaku we’re supposed to be seeing thanks to the magical whims of Antonio Conte. Don’t see anything new with his back to goal etc. He looks the exact same player to me.
From entertainment point of view this season on the Sunday night matches on BT everyone can watch the Roma vs Sassuolo or Atalanta vs Milan and you will watch entertaining football with teams pressing and creating a lot of chances, it has nothing to do with historical Série A.
With this I am not saying any Italian team this days has the chance to win the Champions League, even the Europa League only if EPL teams don’t take the competition seriously.
@MvG the point here was Lukaku on the context of Serie A, Conte and coaching, not to compare Leagues, we’re wasting time here, there’s no points to be made here, at the end of the season Chelsea fans will judge Lukaku performances, I am out of this discussion.
Lukaku goal per minute was better for Everton than Inter I’m sure. Yes Serie A is worse but if you take away Lukaku at Us then he just did his norm based on West Brom, Everton, Belgium and Inter
There’s a difference in quality between the top leagues but it’s overstated most of the time, given the way Milan and Roma ran United close over 2 legs last season, would Everton, Leicester, Arsenal, Tottenham be bossing it against them or Atalanta, Napoli? Most of the time, the difference came down to a few top teams.
For Lukaku specifically, it’s just a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder. It’s not as if he had trouble banging in goals against PL minnows before going to Italy, and his record against big teams hardly improved over there either. It’s just a case of a player getting out of the nadir of his career, regained form and performed under less scrutiny and pressure.
For Lukaku specifically, it’s just a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder. It’s not as if he had trouble banging in goals against PL minnows before going to Italy, and his record against big teams hardly improved over there either. It’s just a case of a player getting out of the nadir of his career, regained form and performed under less scrutiny and pressure.
I actually agree with you on this. Serie A top teams are improving and the football is entertaining but it’s too do with most being close to the same level.
La Liga overall is still higher, yes its not as entertaining but the overall level is still higher
Yeah @SCP don't you know that no player can possibly get better after the age of 25 and if you say that that's possible you're being "unreasonable"??!??!??!?!?!??
Pay that dude no mind - he has a vendetta for god knows what reason. A couple pages ago he hilariously tried to call out people who correctly stated that Lukaku had improved during his spell in Italy as if he'd stumbled upon some sort of gotcha moment.
I have some curiosity regarding Atalanta vs United because I rate Gaspperini more than Ole, but having watched them the other night against AC Milan their defence didn’t seemed rock solid to say the least.
@TheMagicFoolBus it’s up to Tuchel now to take the best from Lukaku, I will remain silent on this topic.
Lukaku has improved in Italy then you factor in that he’s in his prime it’s a no brainer too see.
The problem I have is when people say he scored so much due too being in Italy but his record at Inter is just slightly better than his record overall through his career. He scored 25 league goals for Everton, bar his 2nd season here his goal scoring has always been great PL, Serie A and international
That's their MO - they just attack constantly via the flanks. Biggest tactical note is that they feature rotations down both wings at the same time - so effectively if they turn it over the centre is completely free.
On the verge of putting you on ignore now, but I did want to pount out that I didn’t specifically say age 25 AND the second post you quoted agrees with my point about Lukaku.
Good day to you, sir.
I am excited by that match but it still will mean nothing as we lost too Leipzig and then Villarreal last season then Young Boys this season.
Most Serie A teams as you pointed out are exciting but still their level is below PL and La Liga.
And they man mark, if United players are able to deal with that they will have their chances for sure.
@432JuanMata Villarreal is slightly better than Atalanta, at least so far this season, but then Champions League is different than Domestic Leagues.
Let’s keep this on Lukaku now, we’re going way out of topic here.
Oh no, I'm shaking in my boots! Please sir don't put me on ignore!!!!!!!!
That's true, you didn't say age 25 - you said that Lukaku is "pushing 30" when he turned 28 5 months ago. And you said that it's "unreasonable" to suggest that any player might improve from the ages of 26-27 on. Any other pearls of wisdom you'd care to bestow upon us that we might be able to fade at the betting markets?
Yeah agreed - should be ample space down the middle for United and Bruno might have a lot of time given his mobility. Not sure how press-resistant much of United's team is though - that might be an issue.
I said it is unreasonable to expect a player to improve his technique after over a decade in top level football or any drastic improvement when they are pushing 30 as Lukaku is now.
And luckily you lot get to witness his same limitations firsthand for the bargain price of £100m quid.
Enjoy.
Again, which is patently ridiculous. Did you not see Ronaldo improve his technique when he went to Real Madrid? Did he not become a better striker of the ball and a better runner which allowed him to hit goalscoring peaks in his career and win almost unprecedented silverware? Yes he won a Ballon d'Or at United but you have to be willfully blind and/or an idiot to say he didn't go up a level at Madrid.
And you're talking about Lukaku not improving when he's aged 26-27 under Conte. No one is talking about Lukaku getting better now that he's 28; he very obviously got better aged 26 thanks to Conte. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand?
Ronaldo improving his technique at Madrid. Now that is a ridiculous idea. You seem totally oblivious to context. Just because his numbers improved doesn’t mean he did individually. Not only was the team built around him at Madrid but he was in a much better team compared to the regular opposition. La Liga bent over backward to make sure Barca and Madrid had all the resources while the rest of the clubs had little to nowt. The gap in quality was absolutely massive most weeks whereas he was playing against much tougher league opposition prior in the Prem.
The same context applies to Lukaku to a lesser degree. But whether it’s 26-27 or 28 we’re still talking about a player who spent the better part of a decade starting regularly in top level football. Players peak earlier as well these days. Age 23-25 is the new 26-27 in terms of development. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, but it is extremely rare. Short of Vardy or Moreno I can’t think of any others.
Seriously? Is this post actually a joke?
You genuinely think Ronaldo didn't improve from age 24 on? And that his ridiculous goalscoring is solely down to differences in leagues, when in actual fact La Liga was comfortably better than the PL for the better part of a decade whilst he was there?
Clearly you didn't actually watch football during this period so you should just hold your L and move on. Ronaldo not improving at Madrid - have a word with yourself; that is up there with the most ludicrous things I've ever seen posted on this forum.
Insulting another member
No. His technique did not improve. Not markedly anyway. He was already a Ballon d’Or winner, FFS.
You class A wanker.
Go sell your straw man arguments elsewhere.
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Ah yes, he just made the transition from left winger to a prolific inside left forward / striker hybrid without improving his technique or any technical aspect of his game. He had a Ballon d'Or already, which means that he can't possibly improve other aspects even though he was moving to a different team in a different league and playing a different role.
Go wash your legs, you have no idea what you're on about and it's genuinely embarrassing at this point. You tried to call others out with your shitty multi-quote post and now the level of backtracking is seriously cringeworthy. Guessing that self-reflection is beyond your capabilities but in the off chance it isn't I hope you have a word with yourself.
Rooney played wide at times to accomodate Ronaldo playing central in his final two seasons at United. So that’s yet another daft point when you actually try to make one instead of pulling straw man arguments out of your arse.
How bout you go wash your legs now. Or do anything else. As long as it doesn’t involve carrying on this obsession with me. I’m flattered but it’s getting a bit weird now.
Ta.
Sorry, was this actually an effort to make a point? Because if so it failed. "Rooney played wide at times and therefore Ronaldo didn't get any better at Madrid when he played there regularly and set records"
Were you even watching football in 08/09? Are you actually trying to argue that Ronaldo wasn't playing as a left winger at United? You are earnestly arguing that 2+2=5, all because you can't accept that Ronaldo added to his skillset whilst at Madrid. Again, this is perhaps the most absurd position I've ever seen anyone try to defend on this forum.
Again, if you want to be a coward by doing a large multiquote post with most of them out of context, then you need a thicker skin - you seem to be reacting badly to being called out; hopefully there's a pharmacy nearby to help with your obvious butthurt.
Sorry, was this actually an effort to make a point? Because if so it failed. "Rooney played wide at times and therefore Ronaldo didn't get any better at Madrid when he played there regularly and set records"
Were you even watching football in 08/09? Are you actually trying to argue that Ronaldo wasn't playing as a left winger at United? You are earnestly arguing that 2+2=5, all because you can't accept that Ronaldo added to his skillset whilst at Madrid. Again, this is perhaps the most absurd position I've ever seen anyone try to defend on this forum.
Again, if you want to be a coward by doing a large multiquote post with most of them out of context, then you need a thicker skin - you seem to be reacting badly to being called out; hopefully there's a pharmacy nearby to help with your obvious butthurt.
My point was that Ronaldo played multiple positions at United and scored in all of them. And that you weren’t aware of that because you are obviously 12 years old. To pretend he played some magical new position at Madrid is absurd. And furthermore while his goal tallies improved many like myself would say his overall game suffered for it. So it is tit for tat. For my money his United Ballon d’Or season is still as impressive as any other in his career.
But this is the last time I reply to you or see any of your posts because you are only interested in taking the piss whilst eating pot noodles and drinking flat Pepsi. I don’t know why oppo fans like you are allowed to carry on such childish nonsense on a United forum, but that is an issue for the mods. So I suppose I will just have to rely on the ignore function. Good riddance.
Insulting another member
Sad that I have to school you on your own club's history. Imagine not understanding the difference between a winger and an inside forward! Also, even if you are right and he's not playing a different position, you don't think it's going up a level to score 25+ more goals a season?
And holy feck, you actually think Ronaldo was worse at Madrid than he was at United?? My god, next time just change your bio to "dumbfeck who has no idea what he's on about", it'd save us all a lot of time.
Out of curiosity, which aspects of Ronaldo a game improved markedly as you put it? In my opinion his dribbling got worse and so was his running with the ball.
Sad that I have to school you on your own club's history. Imagine not understanding the difference between a winger and an inside forward! Also, even if you are right and he's not playing a different position, you don't think it's going up a level to score 25+ more goals a season?
And holy feck, you actually think Ronaldo was worse at Madrid than he was at United?? My god, next time just change your bio to "dumbfeck who has no idea what he's on about", it'd save us all a lot of time.
With the goals someone will argue that there are players in the EPL with more season goals than Ronaldo therefore Ronaldo is not the best EPL player of the last 20yrs and that will be ridiculous.
I don't mean to interrupt you two but it's not that far out there to suggest his technique didn't improve much from 24 on. He learned to be more efficient and effective sure, and his movement improved tenfold, but his actual technique on the ball didn't change much. If anything he learned to spend less time with it.
Imo, Ronaldo's best years were the first 2-3 years he spent at Madrid. That's where he struck the best balance between goalscoring taken to a new level and fantastic overall play.
Agreed. Not worth your time though. You’re more likely to get some shit green smiley non sequitur reply than any actual logic backing up any supposed point.
He's been banned so not much of an interruption.
Oh drag.
His movement in and around the box improved dramatically. His ability in the air, with his back to goal, and his finishing all went up a level.
Again, it's not like he was bad at any of these things whilst at Man United (or that he's even remotely comparable to Lukaku in any of these aspects) - the simple fact is that he improved upon moving to Madrid in his mid 20s.