Rojo & Jones Must Continue as First Choice

RedRoach

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Sep 19, 2016
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There has been some debate on here about what happens with Smalling and Bailly now that they are returning to fitness given the performances of Rojo and Jones.

In my opinion, we must stick with the Rojo/Jones partnership. Quite simply, I have not seen us look this solid for such a sustained period since we had Rio and Vidic at the back. Gone is the nervousness in front of the keeper and the constant feeling that we could concede at any moment, even against the might Arsenal. We are dominating teams at the back and it is so great to see.

I've always believed in Fergie's view that great teams start from the back and once you have a solid foundation it allows the attacking players the freedom and confidence to advance forward knowing that they are well supported by a solid defence. That is the case with us now. IMO the difference is night and day when compared to last season where we played so defensively to compensate for our general nervousness at the back.

There is no doubt Smalling played well last season and often looked our best centre back, however he his part of a group of players that appear to lack a spine and the hardness to succeed at the top level. He also contributes to the general nervousness with the back four.

Bailly looks fantastic and he may well be better in the long term, but he is off to Afcon soon. As a bonus he looked great at right back so him being able to rotate in where needed is a great option to have.

Thoughts?
 
We've got great, big, rojones!
 
Rojones, the new defensive fragrance by Jo-Mo.

EDIT: Apparently if you put Jo and Mo next to each other it defaults to Mourinho.
 
I've been impressed with them but still feel like Rojo is limited. Bailly and Jones together seems like a taller, stronger and quicker partnership. Plus Bailly is better with the ball than Rojo who even while he's playing well defensively, gives it away a hell of a lot.
 
Are you really convinced it is their quality that made us keep some clean sheets lately? Nothing would make me more happier than seeing Jones fulfilling his potential but i am afraid this is only a mere coincidence.
 
Really impressed with both of them and have no problem with us sticking with it for now but I don't see the Rojo and Jones partnership as a long term solution though, both are just on the form of their lives.
 
Stick for the time being, but I'll still be pleasantly surprised if we even get another 15 games out of Jones this season. I hope I'm wrong.

Long term I think we are better with Bailly coming into the side and him partnering Jones or Smalling, but there's no point disrupting the partnership for someone who is disappearing off to Africa in a few weeks.

Edit: Wrong player,
 
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I agree they shouldn't be broken for the time being. They seem to have a good understanding and deal well with physical players.

I think the real test will come however when they face the more flair focused, skillful attackers.
 
I agree with anything that bring stability to defence. However I won't be surprised if this run ends. Soon enough some ref will notice Rojo two footed tackles + Jones call to the treatment room is hard to resist.
 
they have played well in the last few games but I think Bailly has to start once fully fit. Smalling should be worried, probably 4th choice in Mourinho's mind right now. Then again Rojo and Jones are proof of how quickly things can change.
 
Given Bailly is injured and then off to the ACN for the foreseeable yes stick with Jones and Rojo (I certainly don't want to see Smalling return anytime soon) however long term no, come February I want Bailly back in the side and then next season him and a new CB to be the long term pairing
 
Sepukku said:
Are you really convinced it is their quality that made us keep some clean sheets lately? Nothing would make me more happier than seeing Jones fulfilling his potential but i am afraid this is only a mere coincidence.
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Wat.

This logic is baffling. How is good form sustained over multiple games against good opposition a "coincidence"?

And against Arsenal, tottenham, Everton and West Brom no less. All good sides.
 
Rojo and Jones sounds like a bad 80's TV cop show. They've been great so far together, they should stay as a pair until they make a mistake or start playing badly together. Neither deserve to be dropped.
 
I think we'll have a better idea of where pretty much all our players stand at the end of the season.
I'd imagine Rojo will eventually do something stupid and not get away with it, or Jones will get another injury and Bailly will slot right in eventually. But if it's not broken don't fix it.
Given that for a while we were all shitting it at the idea of Bailly being gone for about a month it's a good dilemma to have, pretty much all our centre backs seem good enough at the minute which is brilliant.
I just wish we had the same depth and quality further up the pitch.
 
Betting on Jones to stay fit is a bad idea. There's enough history to be pessimistic about it.
 
I'm all for meritocracy... which is why I think Bailly deserves his place. I'd put him in ahead of Rojo but only for the reason that Rojo has been a booking liability for a while now. I think there's going to be a bit of a target above his head as far as referees are concerned and even if it's a harsh sending off the ref will be safe in the knowledge the media will play it off as somehow being justified because he's got away with it twice already.
 
Agreed. Big fan of Smalling and I still think he is our best pure defender individually. But it's not about individuals, and Jones and Rojo are a solid and complimentary pair. Smalling should absolutely not walk back in to the side.

Last season I think Smalling and Blind suited LvGs high line with Smallings recovery pace and Blind stepping in to midfield with the ball. I don't think they are suited as a pair for Mourinhos system, which is deeper and narrower. I definitely think both have a place in this squad, but no longer as a first choice pair in the middle. Blind as a left back most probably.

If Rojo and Jones keep performing, they keep playing. It would be daft to break it up, no matter how good Bailly and Smalling can be. The positive is that there's going to be a real fight for places. It will surely force Smalling, Bailly and Blind to up their game to fight for a place, and Rojo and Jones to keep playing at a high standard to keep their place. It's a great problem to have.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Wat.

This logic is baffling. How is good form sustained over multiple games against good opposition a "coincidence"?

And against Arsenal, tottenham, Everton and West Brom no less. All good sides.
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If you belive that shiet with "jones was so good vs arsenal that Sanchez was anonymous" I don't. I think players have good and bad days, like everyone else.
 
Are we going with RoJones or Jo-Jo? ;)

Seriously though, it makes sense to keep the pairing together, while individually they may not be peoples first choices theres no arguing that apart from Rojo giving a few players love taps here and there that they have done very well as a pairing. No need to change it for League games at the moment, Baillys off to Afcon and Smalling hasn't been anything like he was last season so wouldn't be advocating him being put straight back in.
 
Think Rojo,Smalling and Jones are relatively at the same level.

All deeply flawed in one way or another but can put in good perfomances when the need arises.

Only Bailly seems better and I'd rotate them around him. But obviously after the Afcon.
 
If rojo had been red carded rightfully for one or two of those tackles recently, I'm sure our views on him would be different. I've always thought he's a decent squad option though. Jones and Bailly for me.
 
Let's see how well they'll do if, for any reason, our three man midfield loses one of the links in its chain and the CBs will have to deal with more threats coming from the central channels. Their good run as a center half partnership "coincides" with the utilization of our best out and out #6 in the squad (in the form of a holding midfielder) which in itself has allowed both Herrera and Pogba to gain a few yards on the pitch and therefore take the roles that suit them best. Unless we want to believe that it's all down to the CBs and that playing two #8s with an #10/SS in front of them had nothing to do with us looking vulnerable at the back at times.

Having said that, i'm really glad they're doing well. Jones, especially, is player who has received a lot of praise from Sir Alex himself and it's true that his ridiculous injury record has made many of our fans forget that he has all it takes, in terms of ability, to become a very good modern defender. He's physical but he doesn't lack pace either and he's also very aggressive. For any big club to have a defender that can be urgent and play "in front" of the attacker is a bonus. But he still has some road to travel until he reaches top level and when he does, he'll have to prove that he's consistent too in his performances.

Generally speaking, i agree with the OP's opinion that we need to find a stable backbone sooner than later. I just don't know if we will be able to do that this season because we don't quite know yet on which players we can rely upon. In regards to our axis, only De Gea is dead certain to start every game. Carrick is 35 and Mourinho has already stated that he must be rotated, Zlatan will face similar problems (8 games in the last 24 days is a bit too much, even for him), Herrera-Pogba seem to be undroppable even in the training sessions at Carrington (the only good thing, right now) and, finally, all our CB choices -minus Blind who's not a natural CB- seem very injury prone.
 
As mentioned, I would leave Bailly till after he's finished with the Ivory Coast then partner him with Rojo. That partnership looked the best from what we have though Jones is proving to be a worthy backup. I really don't care about Smalling's form last season though he wasn't really that good anyway and very over-rated as always. He really needs to step up to get back in the side imo. But yeah very happy with Jones and Rojo at the moment.
 
To be honest even though they have both been solid I think Jones has been the more important of the two. He organises the defence well, makes key interceptions that get us up the pitch and communicates well with the rest of the team. Rojo should have probably been off twice which is what worries me, he sometimes just loses his control and makes a rash decision. It is a difficult one because Bailly goes of to the ACN in less than a month and Smalling is a better defender than Rojo but obviously the partnership has been solid and their confidence is high. I would like to see how they fair a few games without Carrick in front of them and see how solid we look then.
 
I think they've done enough to earn more of a chance... i'm pleasantly surprised that Jones has managed to stay fit, and that Rojo is taking his chance now he finally had an extended run in his preferred position.

The only thing that still worries me is Rojo's love of the odd reckless challenge. He should have had two reds recently, and if he does that in an important match it could cost us!
 
I would go with the sentiments of most on here.

Regarding Jones: are his injuries recurrent ones? ie. the same knee ligament or ankle ligament? Or has he just been unlucky with different injuries each time? Contact injuries or muscle injuries? Mourinho kinda indicated that physio was better for him, so could it be partly down to the medical team? Wondering how likely is it really that he will keep getting injured, and not just a bad run of luck behind him now.
 
As long as both are available and we are winning games, i see no reason to change them. The are forming an excellent partnership together.
 
I agree that we stick for now and bring Smalling/Bailly back to fitness via substitute appearances. No sense in breaking up a partnership that is working.

However, I think the one constant helping this duo shine is the fact they have Michael Carrick and a midfield three in front of them. This is something Bailly + Smalling had to do without in almost every game they played together, and they are still far, far better defenders so will eventually claim their places back.
 
I'd like to see Bailly brought in for Rojo as Bailly is just as beastly but better on the ball, quicker and stronger so alongside Jones would be an upgrade on what we currently play in Jones/Rojo.

As good as Rojo has been for the past month I'm still not convinced by him long term and you always worry when he goes into a 50/50 or that he'll do something rash in general, I don't mind Rojo as an alternative but not as a first choice.
 
They so far have been alright, I wouldn't call them stellar because I am annoyed with the arsenal goal. However, i believe you don't change a working formula if smalling, blind and bailly want their place back they need to earn it.
 
Is there a line of thinking that allows us to rotate both pairs as units as the season goes on?
As in no more mixing and matching, play Rojo and Jones v Middlesborough and Bailly and Smalling v West Ham?
That's just an example, I wouldn't risk losing momentum with Bailly heading off but if he stayed would it be an option?
 
Smalling sucks. Shouldn't be near the team. He did an effective job in a defensive team but in terms of reading the game he's terrible and just gets bailed out by his huge frame and pace.
 
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