Roger Federer

[Blatzo]

I hadn't considered Jordan - you make a great case for him and it's hard to dispute anything you've said.

One thing I think people underestimate is the brutality of individual sports when compared with team sports - mentally more than anything else. I'd intended to mention it in my original post.

It goes beyond the obvious level of have a bad day and you're probably going to lose to things like you being the only guy in the dressing room - nobody else to rely on, nobody else to blame, nobody else to psych you up etc. - sure you might have a coach but they're not going through it with you.

 

[swooshboy]

I hadn't considered Jordan - you make a great case for him and it's hard to dispute anything you've said.

One thing I think people underestimate is the brutality of individual sports when compared with team sports - mentally more than anything else. I'd intended to mention it in my original post.

It goes beyond the obvious level of have a bad day and you're probably going to lose to things like you being the only guy in the dressing room - nobody else to rely on, nobody else to blame, nobody else to psych you up etc. - sure you might have a coach but they're not going through it with you.

That is a very valid point - I read Agassi's autobiography (which is a fantastic read btw) and that was something that he spoke about a lot. He said it was not only the fact that it is an individual sport, but that it was an individual sport that would usually last for hours - so you were on your own for a long period managing yourself throughout the game.

 

[Revan]

I personally would still put Jordan ahead of him - and that isn't to indicate any lack of appreciation for Federer's achievements or greatness.

As has been stated a few times, there aren't many athletes who are pretty much undisputed as the greatest ever within their sport. Even with Federer, some people will still say that Novak or Rafa at their peak might be better (I personally don't agree with this, but I have seen it stated a number of times). There have already been some posts regarding Ali versus Sugar Ray Robinson as to who was the greater boxer.

With Jordan, there is much less debate. He is pretty much unanimously considered to be the greatest basketball player ever. You can also consider his global reach and impact - and just because basketball is not as big in the UK should not blind us to his level of global awareness and recognition.

I think what you said about Fed and his drive to never stop improving and getting better is certainly also true of MJ. I actually wrote my dissertation on Jordan and looked at his sociological impact within sports and beyond.

To be fair, the number of people who are claiming that LeBron is better than Jordan is increasing. While, I don't particularly agree with this, there is an argument on that, so who knows how things will be looked on in 20 years from now. At least statistically wise, James totally destroys Jordan. On eye test, again probably James is better considering that he is much more athletic, larger, stronger and a better shooter.

Jordan will have always over James the killing mentality, and more rings, but I think that there will be a debate on this. It is at least as close as Federer-Nadal.

 

[Zen]

Can someone explain to me....in a thread about Roger Federer.......how 27-7-7-1.5 "totally destroys" 30-6-5-2.5 ?

LeBron is just about cementing his place as 2 for a lot, and I don't see many with any sense claiming to be number 1. The gap is still insanely massive. He could go on to get 8 rings and he probably won't go above Jordan, they are currently equal in terms of years played with LeBron not having serious injuries or missing physical prime years....and Jordan is just so far ahead. This is a guy that casually averaged a triple double when he was asked to play PG for a stretch - and if he truly valued that over beating Magic/Bird/Thomas - probably would of averaged it over a season too, just for the sake of it. Mind you, I think LeBron probably could do too....but not as casually as Jordan seemingly did things.

Jordan was a behemoth. Only dude that comes close since him is Tiger for the impact and dominance he had in his own sport. Federers a legend...but is slightly behind.

 

[Raoul]

Can someone explain to me....in a thread about Roger Federer.......how 27-7-7-1.5 "totally destroys" 30-6-5-2.5 ?

LeBron is just about cementing his place as 2 for a lot, and I don't see many with any sense claiming to be number 1. The gap is still insanely massive. He could go on to get 8 rings and he probably won't go above Jordan, they are currently equal in terms of years played with LeBron not having serious injuries or missing physical prime years....and Jordan is just so far ahead. This is a guy that casually averaged a triple double when he was asked to play PG for a stretch - and if he truly valued that over beating Magic/Bird/Thomas - probably would of averaged it over a season too, just for the sake of it. Mind you, I think LeBron probably could do too....but not as casually as Jordan seemingly did things.

Jordan was a behemoth. Only dude that comes close since him is Tiger for the impact and dominance he had in his own sport. Federers a legend...but is slightly behind.

Best to start a separate thread about the best sportsman ever.

 

[swooshboy]

Can someone explain to me....in a thread about Roger Federer.......how 27-7-7-1.5 "totally destroys" 30-6-5-2.5 ?

LeBron is just about cementing his place as 2 for a lot, and I don't see many with any sense claiming to be number 1. The gap is still insanely massive. He could go on to get 8 rings and he probably won't go above Jordan, they are currently equal in terms of years played with LeBron not having serious injuries or missing physical prime years....and Jordan is just so far ahead. This is a guy that casually averaged a triple double when he was asked to play PG for a stretch - and if he truly valued that over beating Magic/Bird/Thomas - probably would of averaged it over a season too, just for the sake of it. Mind you, I think LeBron probably could do too....but not as casually as Jordan seemingly did things.

Jordan was a behemoth. Only dude that comes close since him is Tiger for the impact and dominance he had in his own sport. Federers a legend...but is slightly behind.

Completely agree!

Great point about the triple double stretch - think it was the last 10 games of a season or something and he was moved to PG and averaged a triple-double. In a similar vein, being named defensive player of the year in the same year as winning the scoring title is something that LeBron (or anyone else) could hope to do.

 

[elmo]

Can someone explain to me....in a thread about Roger Federer.......how 27-7-7-1.5 "totally destroys" 30-6-5-2.5 ?

LeBron is just about cementing his place as 2 for a lot, and I don't see many with any sense claiming to be number 1. The gap is still insanely massive. He could go on to get 8 rings and he probably won't go above Jordan, they are currently equal in terms of years played with LeBron not having serious injuries or missing physical prime years....and Jordan is just so far ahead. This is a guy that casually averaged a triple double when he was asked to play PG for a stretch - and if he truly valued that over beating Magic/Bird/Thomas - probably would of averaged it over a season too, just for the sake of it. Mind you, I think LeBron probably could do too....but not as casually as Jordan seemingly did things.

Jordan was a behemoth. Only dude that comes close since him is Tiger for the impact and dominance he had in his own sport. Federers a legend...but is slightly behind.

Because loads of people have never watched Jordan play and think that stats determine it all because of the media's circle jerk over LeBron and his stats.

 

[elmo]

To be fair, the number of people who are claiming that LeBron is better than Jordan is increasing. While, I don't particularly agree with this, there is an argument on that, so who knows how things will be looked on in 20 years from now. At least statistically wise, James totally destroys Jordan. On eye test, again probably James is better considering that he is much more athletic, larger, stronger and a better shooter.

Jordan will have always over James the killing mentality, and more rings, but I think that there will be a debate on this. It is at least as close as Federer-Nadal.

LeBron's stats looks better because the pace of the game is increasing at a ridiculous rate. MJ would score 20ppg alone from free throws if he's playing in the current era with how easily they give free throws to superstars these days.

 

[Skills]

Because loads of people have never watched Jordan play and think that stats determine it all because of the media's circle jerk over LeBron and his stats.

There is a more of a circle jerk over Jordan than LeBron considering the entire media is full of explayers from Jordans era, constantly on about how tough and better things were back in their day.

Not saying LeBron is better than Jordan, but he's easily right up there as at worst one of the top 5 ever and most likely the 2nd best ever.