Reserves Draft | Sjor 9-4 Physiocrat
- Thread starter Balu
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what?
Let's say it doesn't take a long time to read all the posts related to this thread
@Šjor Bepo Can you edit the spoiler, I don't see anything?
I understand your method of dealing with Kaka and you've been honest about Kaka's abilities. I just think that playing such a tight positional plan with relatively slow players could come unstuck.
Also since it is likely you'll have more possession than me how much space will there be between the defensive lines and the forwards? Having a postionally disciplined way of holding off Kaka can work in a more counter-attacking setup but I can see this game becoming somewhat stretched.
Out of interest, what's the source for the quote for Rossi?
I understand your method of dealing with Kaka and you've been honest about Kaka's abilities. I just think that playing such a tight positional plan with relatively slow players could come unstuck.
Also since it is likely you'll have more possession than me how much space will there be between the defensive lines and the forwards? Having a postionally disciplined way of holding off Kaka can work in a more counter-attacking setup but I can see this game becoming somewhat stretched.
Out of interest, what's the source for the quote for Rossi?
I will post my comments tomorrow. Good luck!
the spoiler is from the post above, i dont know i see it normaly
others having the same problem as physio?not that i think speed and pace matters in that area of the pitch but Hassler was pretty fast for a midfielder, in fact the quickest of all midfielders on the pitch. Look at Atletico for example, they also have/had slow players in midfield(Gabi, Tiago, Koke, Raul Garcia etc.) and they mastered that game to perfection.
Fair comment and thats why we think that Hassler is crucial for our game, he is that link that will glue our defensive wall and our attacking trio + we have Gerson who can spray his passes right left and center, one of our plans is to use that "Scholes" pass to quickly switch the game from one area of the pitch to another to create 1v1 situations in open spaces for our wingers as we think we have the upper side in that battle and its a clear route to goal.
link: http://www.elgrafico.com.ar/2015/03/05/C-8004-perfil-de-pipo-rossi-el-patron-de-america.php
@Downcast we decided not to bother with it as nobody liked the idea + he already made the profiles.
the spoiler is from the post above, i dont know i see it normaly
not that i think speed and pace matters in that area of the pitch but Hassler was pretty fast for a midfielder, in fact the quickest of all midfielders on the pitch. Look at Atletico for example, they also have/had slow players in midfield(Gabi, Tiago, Koke, Raul Garcia etc.) and they mastered that game to perfection.
Fair comment and thats why we think that Hassler is crucial for our game, he is that link that will glue our defensive wall and our attacking trio + we have Gerson who can spray his passes right left and center, one of our plans is to use that "Scholes" pass to quickly switch the game from one area of the pitch to another to create 1v1 situations in open spaces for our wingers as we think we have the upper side in that battle and its a clear route to goal.
link: http://www.elgrafico.com.ar/2015/03/05/C-8004-perfil-de-pipo-rossi-el-patron-de-america.php
I can see it now. Don't know why it didn't work before.
I don't think pace is that important in midfield too it's just that combined with far from the quickest CBs and against Kaka it could become a problem. It would have been worse if you'd setup with the 4-2-3-1 I had expected so Hassler as an RCM is a good call. I know Atletico made a slow midfield work but they were specifically a counter-attacking team which you don't seem to be.
Tactically your route to goal is sound but I wouldn't underestimate the defensive capability of Neville and Evra.
Thanks for the link.
yeah, atletico is maybe a wrong example because of their style but we can use another one with Scholes - Carrick midfield, a possession based team that also defended fantastically well as a team with 2 very slow midfieldes(we have 3 of which one is pretty quick). Its what you have in head not in legs
Both Gaz and Evra are good defenders, agree with you that Pat often gets underrated as a defender but you have to look the profile of players they are facing and if they face them 1v1 in our opinion we will win that battle more often then not.
Julinho is considered as one of the best wingers in history, sites that do all-time lists have him in top 10 and he was voted in 1996 as the best player in history of Fiorentina even though he spent only 3 years there. He did won them Serie A in his first season there and lead them to the European Cup final in the second season where they lost to Di Stefano's Real Madrid side.
And Orsi who is considered as the greatest argentinian winger of all time, reckon he is now second best because of the certain player from Barcelona.
yeah, atletico is maybe a wrong example because of their style but we can use another one with Scholes - Carrick midfield, a possession based team that also defended fantastically well as a team with 2 very slow midfieldes(we have 3 of which one is pretty quick). Its what you have in head not in legs
Both Gaz and Evra are good defenders, agree with you that Pat often gets underrated as a defender but you have to look the profile of players they are facing and if they face them 1v1 in our opinion we will win that battle more often then not.
Julinho is considered as one of the best wingers in history, sites that do all-time lists have him in top 10 and he was voted in 1996 as the best player in history of Fiorentina even though he spent only 3 years there. He did won them Serie A in his first season there and lead them to the European Cup final in the second season where they lost to Di Stefano's Real Madrid side.
And Orsi who is considered as the greatest argentinian winger of all time, reckon he is now second best because of the certain player from Barcelona.
Your Utd comparison is helpful for thinking how your team will play- Hassler in the Hargreaves role! That said I think early Carrick was much more mobile than he later become. I remember being depressed when seeing Carrick and Scholes being paired together for their glacial pace.
I understand your wingers have great reputations and they are being utilised in their best positions I just wish I had some footage to work from to assess them better.
There is some footage of Julinho, not much but you can see glimpses of brilliance
Both sides are very good but I think he may have the best team in the draft so far. Julinho and Orsi are two fantastic dribbling wingers and his entire front three looks awesome to me. I thought Julinho was more like a 2nd round pick and they managed to pick him up really late which made their team look like it had another first pick available or something.
Förster and Wright is also up there with possibly the best centre back pairing in this draft and there just aren't any weak spots where it looks like they had to pay for it. Hummels, Samuel and Modric seem slightly out of their league here for me.
Samuel and Hummels - yes. Modric is one of the most complete midfielders in the last 10-20 years. He has his place here.
A game built for Kanchelskis. I predict him to have a big impact, especially with Kaka hovering there.
Hard to compare the teams.
On the one hand, there is a team built to win this draft with some of the best available greatest players in their positions like Forster, Orsi and Kaltz.
On the other hand, the other team did want to introduce:
- former Manchester United players who did not belong to the blocked list like Kanchelskis, Neville, Evra and Taylor
- players he has loved watching like Zagallo, Kaka and Modric
On the one hand, there is a team built to win this draft with some of the best available greatest players in their positions like Forster, Orsi and Kaltz.
On the other hand, the other team did want to introduce:
- former Manchester United players who did not belong to the blocked list like Kanchelskis, Neville, Evra and Taylor
- players he has loved watching like Zagallo, Kaka and Modric
@Šjor Bepo
Thanks for the Julinho vids, I didn't know they existed. He looks quite handy. He will be added to my winger list to pick from.
Thanks for the Julinho vids, I didn't know they existed. He looks quite handy. He will be added to my winger list to pick from.
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Thanks for the comments. I do think Hummels reputation has suffered due to his performances in recent seasons but he does have a quality peak. Samuel was at the heart of two Scudetto winning sides and was a beast. Also Modric has been one of the best CMs consistently for the last 4 years.
Aside from this match, and just in general (hope people don't factor this into the voting consideration) - the contrast between Zagallo and Julinho's careers is quite intriguing. And this isn't to take anything away from Zagallo mind, because he was undoubtedly a wonderful, wonderful footballer - and rightfully considered as one of the true Brazilian legends - as a player, and as a manager - which was the primary reason why we've made some concessions in the writeup regarding that with Kaltz's function.
But just as Zagallo enjoyed his prime in Brazil's great World Cup winning teams, Julinho was really unfortunate in that a half baked Brazil 1954 team (with probably 4 top players in Nilton Djalma, Beuer and Julino) came up against a Hungary team which was considered to be the best in the world (with Puskás, Kocsis, Hidegkuti, Czibor and all those legends). And by the next World Cup, he was playing in Italy, so couldn't take part in the qualifiers, and withdrew his name from the World Cup squad (even though their FA promised him a starting role). That, and Garrincha's emergence seemingly wiped Julinho's name from wider consciousness even though he was a special player for Fiorentina (him and and his successor Hamrin are considered to be their best wingers), and was considered among the best in the world for his position:
Just goes to show how timing plays a big role in the narrative surrounding players, because he's almost never picked in all-time drafts despite being considered the most talented Brazilian right winger after Garrincha and Jairzinho (who're both fixtures in fantasy setups). The same goes for Rossi because a lot of times, folk jump from Monti and Redondo to Simeone and Mascherano for Argentina - even though Rossi and *un-named player* were considered to be superior, especially for a pure DM role (un-named player* was picked once in an old draft, but Rossi has no history on Caf drafts at all, as far as we know). And one could probably extend that for Scarone too (who's considered to be the best Uruguayan attacker from their World Cup winning teams, arguably the best attacker pre-Suárez/ Enzo after Schiaffiano, and someone Meazza himself considered an idol). Should've seen minor consideration in past drafts, especially from antohan who included him in his all-time Uruguayan team:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/national-team-all-time-xis.363581/
Though in the interest of balance, and not advertising our players relentlessly, we especially dig that Taylor pick - another incredible player who goes unnoticed, and was supposed to be the final piece for Sir Matt's first great European team.
As for the crown jewel of your XI:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/favourite-non-man-united-player.409293/#post-18115722
This is kind of why we wanted to include 3 year peaks. Hummels was admittedly very good from 2010-2013 (which could've been highlighted), but that's only part of his body of work when you consider the entirety of his career.
Interpretation of 4-3-3 With Rotational Movement
The 4-4-2 Soccer Formation
1. Hummels is of course a quality player successful with Germany and Dortmund. I am not sure but many injuries in the last years. Maybe, he would have a greater reputation if he played for a club like Bayern Munchen.
Our understanding of Hummels in France
Germany 1-0 France - QF WC 2014
2. Samuel: Serie A defender of the year 2010
3. Sure, Modric deserves to be part of this draft.
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IMHO, the battle midfield is the decisive factor criterion here.
Creative support striker
Not really I think. Although 2 man midfield it's excellent quality.
The decisive factor is still both defences.
Well played @Šjor Bepo @Invictus
I think next time I should prioritise the defence more. It made me come unstuck twice before.
I think next time I should prioritise the defence more. It made me come unstuck twice before.
Good game @Physiocrat.
@Physiocrat sold himself short with a weak defense which let down an otherwise fantastic team. I was going to come back to vote on this but got busy and missed, wouldn't have made a difference anyways as with G.Neville in the team I would always give the opposition a better chance considering the talent on the field, and the other components of the defence
Samuel and Hummels - yes. Modric is one of the most complete midfielders in the last 10-20 years. He has his place here.
He is indeed a jacks of all trade and could be picked for the right setup, but for a 4-4-2 he is not too far up my list.
I rate them as players, but just not as among the best in their positions in history. Your team looks tactically spot on, maybe they I would have preferred a more defensive philosophy but that is minor details. It is just that the opponent would probably edge out anybody at this stage.
I was attempting to do a reworked version of Brazil's '58 side with him in a Didiesque role which I think would suit him very well. I'm glad you thought it was tactically spot on as cohesion and fit is what I mainly target.
@Invictus @Šjor Bepo had clearly the best team, my favourite number 1 for this draft.
@Physiocrat unlucky to play against them: I didn't want to vote against him because he has introduced 4 former MUFC players, much more the other 15 managers together.
So, well done guys
@Physiocrat unlucky to play against them: I didn't want to vote against him because he has introduced 4 former MUFC players, much more the other 15 managers together.
So, well done guys