Reserves Draft | Aldo Staine 14-6 EAP

[Pat_Mustard]

Reckon many of us have been guilty of posting alternative and “improved” formation pics in the past – it's tempting to do so in some cases.

But IIRC we pretty much reached a consensus on this a while back (around the time when it was decided posting your own formation for feedback in the main thread was a bad idea): It's not on, really.

And one of the weightiest arguments against the practice is the very thing we've been discussing in the “next idea” thread: In theory a manager could feck up utterly initially, only to have a new set-up fed him on a silver platter, then change “his” formation – and end up gaining votes from this, directly, since random voters do not necessarily factor in anything but the formation pic in the OP.

That obviously hasn't happened here, as Ed hasn't actually changed his basic formation. But it could happen, and that's why it's – rightly – frowned upon. As a manager, it's bad enough when neutrals go out of their way to “interpret” a faulty set-up (or faulty tactics) as something other than what your opponent explicitly claims it to be – but the visual impact of formation pics is even worse. And regardless of intention, this sort of thing often ends up as some sort of attempt to – actively – improve what is perceived as faulty, rather than simply criticizing it. Which simply isn't fair on the other guy.

Again, this is an academic, general point – it obviously hasn't happened in this particular match. But I completely understand Aldo's frustration.

Agreed, and on the bolded part its actually served to limit Edgar in this match unfortunately. I'm sure he toyed with the idea of setting up in a more conventional formation at some stage, and now its difficult for him to do so.

The other unfortunate thing is that this has been an interesting match thread IMO, and limiting discussion in general is rarely good. I think avoiding posting alternative formations is a perfectly reasonable compromise though, and I'll certainly be banging the drum that any drastic early formation changes should count against the manager. Not that Edgar's switch of positions qualifies as such - I'm thinking specifically of Cal subbing two of his three midfielders within 10 minutes of our match in the All-Time Auction Draft starting .

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Agreed, and on the bolded part its actually served to limit Edgar in this match unfortunately. I'm sure he toyed with the idea of setting up in a more conventional formation at some stage, and now its difficult for him to do so.

Nah, I tole Skizzo that I would line up this way after we existed last draft. Just like out 4-3-2-1 this is one less off my bucket list now Appreciate the advise but a formation change was not on the table at any time.

Manager votes so far : 8-0.

Tactical win!

Would have been hard to beat you with a conventional team. With such a random formation it's just way too difficult. Some heated discussion but no hard feelings. Congrats on the win and all the best way ahead.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Nah, I tole Skizzo that I would line up this way after we existed last draft. Just like out 4-3-2-1 this is one less off my bucket list now Appreciate the advise but a formation change was not on the table at any time.



Would have been hard to beat you with a conventional team. With such a random formation it's just way too difficult. Some heated discussion but no hard feelings. Congrats on the win and all the best way ahead.

I doubt we've seen the last of the Edgar Christmas Tree .

Not that this game is quite over yet, but I think you did a good job here. Defensively, Hughes and Andrade were both good tactical fits at LCB and RCB and Blind was an excellent, cerebral CB in between them. Its just Nadal that never seemed to have a comfortable role here - in your current formation he looks more like a CB caught out of position than a real asset in midfield. In attack, Brady probably has an excessive responsibility for providing width and a bit more dynamism out wide would have improved things, but the goal threat is still superb and its a shame we haven't had more attention on the Dalglish/Rush partnership.

 

[Gio]

90 posts in this thread @Aldo? That has to be a record. Kudos to Edgar for attempting something novel and having the balls to pick various Liverpool players. That's almost worth a vote in itself. That said I thought Stiles and even Brady (a class act of course) were picked too early. The attack was good though but it's apex came up against a tough central core and Aldo has drafted a very impressive defence straight off the bat here. It won't require too much reinforcement to make it 'final-ready'.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Well and truly done. Attempt #1839875546 failed.

Congrats @Aldo. All the best going forward.


I need to think of a new theme for next draft.

 

[Ecstatic]

Well and truly done. Attempt #1839875546 failed.

Congrats @Aldo. All the best going forward.

I need to think of a new theme for next draft.

During the draw, I was inclined to strongly support your team because of:

- the idea of some proven partnerships like dalglish-rush
- a specific & clear style of play (Liverpool Theme)

So, I was surprised not to see a 4-4-2 system.

I am not against creative tactical systems or positioning, but I think a 2-3-3-2 system* would have been a better idea than a 3-2-3-2

Spoiler: PLEASE OPEN THE SPOILER

2-3-3-2 system is a disguised 4-4-2

In the newbies, I have lost the 1st game of my 1st draft with the following team:

ZOFF
VOGTS-BECKENBAUER-KOHLER-CABRINI
CHARLTON-FALCAO
MARADONA
HAMRIN-ROMARIO-DZAJIC

I have explained to everyone I should win given the superiority of any of my players over the other team and the versatility of my players. Big Failure.

 

[Ecstatic]

Congrats to all.

I doubt we've seen the last of the Edgar Christmas Tree .

Not that this game is quite over yet, but I think you did a good job here. Defensively, Hughes and Andrade were both good tactical fits at LCB and RCB and Blind was an excellent, cerebral CB in between them. Its just Nadal that never seemed to have a comfortable role here - in your current formation he looks more like a CB caught out of position than a real asset in midfield. In attack, Brady probably has an excessive responsibility for providing width and a bit more dynamism out wide would have improved things, but the goal threat is still superb and its a shame we haven't had more attention on the Dalglish/Rush partnership.

Indeed.

 

[harms]

In the newbies, I have lost the 1st game of my 1st draft with the following team:

ZOFF
VOGTS-BECKENBAUER-KOHLER-CABRINI
CHARLTON-FALCAO
MARADONA
HAMRIN-ROMARIO-DZAJIC

It's sick, this team won't look out of place in the all-time semi, or even in the final. Arguably the midfield is a little light defensively, but other than that... What kind of team did you lose to, do you remember?
Zoff, Vogts, Beckenbuer, Kohler, Falcao, Maradona and Dzajic all have a legitimate claim to be the best ever in their positions.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

It's sick, this team won't look out of place in the all-time semi, or even in the final. Arguably the midfield is a little light defensively, but other than that... What kind of team did you lose to, do you remember?
Zoff, Vogts, Beckenbuer, Kohler, Falcao, Maradona and Dzajic all have a legitimate claim to be the best ever in their positions.

Yeah, how the feck did that team lose @Downcast ?!

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

ZOFF
VOGTS-BECKENBAUER-KOHLER-CABRINI
CHARLTON-FALCAO
MARADONA
HAMRIN-ROMARIO-DZAJIC

Great team...except for Charlton in that position. What team did your opponent have?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

subbing two of his three midfielders within 10 minutes of our match in the All-Time Auction Draft starting

Maybe we need to add in couple of rules to this draft...

- No subbing of players till half time. Just change of formation/tactics allowed with same players.
- Ban posting for formations. You can comment like "Player x and y should be swapped" or "Better off playing 4-4-2" and such...but actual drawing of a complete formation in match thread should not be allowed.

@Aldo opinions?

 

[Moby]

Good game, Edgar.

Sorry, catching a flight in a few hours. Will respond to everything as soon as I get time.

 

[harms]

Good game, Edgar.

Sorry, catching a flight in a few hours. Will respond to everything as soon as I get time.

Will you be able to set-up a game for me and Enigma?

 

[Moby]

Will you be able to set-up a game for me and Enigma?

Already done.

@Downcast vs @Tuppet will go up in another hour.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Maybe we need to add in couple of rules to this draft...

- No subbing of players till half time. Just change of formation/tactics allowed with same players.
- Ban posting for formations. You can comment like "Player x and y should be swapped" or "Better off playing 4-4-2" and such...but actual drawing of a complete formation in match thread should not be allowed.

@Aldo opinions?

Sounds good to me.

 

[Ecstatic]

It's sick, this team won't look out of place in the all-time semi, or even in the final. Arguably the midfield is a little light defensively, but other than that... What kind of team did you lose to, do you remember?
Zoff, Vogts, Beckenbuer, Kohler, Falcao, Maradona and Dzajic all have a legitimate claim to be the best ever in their positions.

Yeah, how the feck did that team lose @Downcast ?!

Great team...except for Charlton in that position. What team did your opponent have?

I no longer have access to the newbies forum & my posts there but I will ask some newbies/mode to do the research

 

[Balu]

I no longer have access to the newbies forum & my posts there but I will ask some newbies/mode to do the research

Give me a minute.

 

[Ecstatic]

Give me a minute.

Thanks !!

 

[Balu]

I no longer have access to the newbies forum & my posts there but I will ask some newbies/mode to do the research

This one? First round of a European Cup draft, which takes a bit away from your team, especially from Maradona, who never had a good run in the European Cup.

VS ​

 

[harms]

How the feck did the left team won?
They don't even know how to spell Breitner.

And if it's a European Cup winners draft what's Falcao is doing here?

 

[Ecstatic]

How the feck did the left team won?
They don't even know how to spell Breitner.

And if it's a European Cup winners draft what's Falcao is doing here?

Falcao played with Roma

 

[Ecstatic]

Thank you @Balu

 

[Balu]

And if it's a European Cup winners draft what's Falcao is doing here?

I think it was a European Cup draft, my bad for including the 'winners' there.

 

[harms]

Falcao played with Roma

He haven't won it, that was my point - but Balu already specified that the "winners" part was a mistake.

 

[Moby]

Some heated discussion but no hard feelings. Congrats on the win and all the best way ahead.

Nope, not even close to any hard feelings (apart from the one time I sneaked into another website...). In fact, I know you are well aware of what is said in the game stays in the game so I wasn't shy of throwing some banter either.
Thanks, was really fun playing with you.

 

[Moby]

Maybe we need to add in couple of rules to this draft...

- No subbing of players till half time. Just change of formation/tactics allowed with same players.
- Ban posting for formations. You can comment like "Player x and y should be swapped" or "Better off playing 4-4-2" and such...but actual drawing of a complete formation in match thread should not be allowed.

@Aldo opinions?

For the second one, I'd surely agree. But seriously, nothing against people trying to get some discussion going, that's great and even here I was fine initially but of course after a few did the same it felt quite taxing to me to be up against that. And of course, in the same spirit in which we banned not posting formations for feedback once the drafting is done in the main thread, we can also perhaps enforce a rule on this. I mean, anything apart from actual full XI formations goes, that's fair enough?

The first one is trickier. Makes a lot of sense but then, what if the manager has to go offline before HT or something? But I guess even in that case, they can leave it in the thread and the thread creator updates it at HT (remind me to never create draft threads again. )

 

[Moby]

Would have been hard to beat you with a conventional team. With such a random formation it's just way too difficult.

Given the feedback perhaps would have been better going conventional, but of course kudos for the effort.

More than it being random, it wasn't provided with the required personnel, I think that much you'd agree to as well. A couple of square pegs and round holes, etc. Remember when anto tried it, he had the likes of Figueroa, Krol etc in defense. (I think he did it twice, and the first one was a bit weak) Whenever going for an unbalanced formation (be it this or a 5-4-1, basically anything that has extra men in a particular department), make sure to fill up the lesser manned area with top quality first, because the one already with extra men can do with lesser quality. Honestly though, this formation is pretty easy to play against using a modern formation. And that is coming from someone who tried a 2-3-2-3 himself in a draft elsewhere. This wasnt a standard old school one though, and I didn't quite get having no wide players anywhere on the pitch. This was my attempt.

 

[Gio]

That's nice Aldo. The only flaw is the midfield as none of them will defer to the others (arguably Moreno would, but it's a bit flaky). Replace Falcao with a more self-deprecating defensive midfielder and you'd be golden. The 2-3-2-3 is basically the same as the 4-1-2-3 in any case.

 

[Moby]

That's nice Aldo. The only flaw is the midfield as none of them will defer to the others (arguably Moreno would, but it's a bit flaky). Replace Falcao with a more self-deprecating defensive midfielder and you'd be golden. The 2-3-2-3 is basically the same as the 4-1-2-3 in any case.

Absolutely. I didn't set out for that setup off the bat and after securing The Don I picked up Nesta and Falcao as those are pretty flexible tactically, specially Nesta. After that I went in that direction which is why some of the later picks like Andrade and Zebec look a lot more natural in their roles. Andrade specially, he'll be an absolute beast in that setup and role. Was hoping for Big Dunc for the left-half role but you know - Zebec's always there.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

More than it being random, it wasn't provided with the required personnel, I think that much you'd agree to as well.

There has been attempts at 2-3-2-3 as you say and the structure of how it's built is available both in theory and has history in practice too. But a MM/3-2-3-2 is something that I have come across very rarely. I'm not even sure if any team has used it in real life.

The 2-3-2-3 is basically the same as the 4-1-2-3 in any case.

Depends on the responsibilities allocated to the fullbacks I suppose. I presume you can play a 4-1-2-3 with Alves/Zambrotta type players whereas a 2-3-2-3 would require more nuance and might require players like Lahm, Junior, Breitner.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

And @Aldo considering the need for shorter titles () would appreciate if you could remove the scoreline. Embarrassing!

 

[Moby]

But a MM/3-2-3-2 is something that I have come across very rarely. I'm not even sure if any team has used it in real life.

Yep, yours wasn't really similar to most line ups and formations I've seen. Initially I thought you had gone the conventional way but I realised pretty soon that it was something pretty unique and there was surely a lot of overlap in the middle there. Replace Brady with a LW and in an instant it looks exponentially better. When I was trying to guess your setup it looked like it was tailor made for a 4-4-2, with Brady and Michel as the wide midfielders (though it still is 'ideal' to have genuine width at least on one side etc) but then I was confused what you will do with Cuelemans. Perhaps a 4-4-2 with Cuelemans could have been interesting? Not sure how many would have taken him kindly in a 2 man midfield though.

would require more nuance and might require players like Lahm, Junior, Breitner.

From the modern ones they fit the bill. And then there are tons of half-backs who played left-half and right-half in those formations itself who would be used to performing on both ends from that position. Big Dunc, like I said, one ideal candidate. I much prefer him there in a 2-3-2-3 than in a 4-2-3-1 in the middle.

And @Aldo considering the need for shorter titles () would appreciate if you could remove the scoreline. Embarrassing!

It's only done after the games are over and not on the front page anymore. It's done with all other games and I did the same last draft I ran (40s), you're not special.

 

[Gio]

Depends on the responsibilities allocated to the fullbacks I suppose. I presume you can play a 4-1-2-3 with Alves/Zambrotta type players whereas a 2-3-2-3 would require more nuance and might require players like Lahm, Junior, Breitner.

For sure. More important IMO would be the roles of the 2 in front of the 3 - if they're just lilly-livered creatives, they won't really cut it in a modern midfield.

 

[Moby]

if they're just lilly-livered creatives, they won't really cut it in a modern midfield.

Yep, that's an absolute crucial area. Off the ball, both of them will have to be tireless and committed to the cause. No such problems with Don Alfredo or Moreno in that area.