If you want to compare Laudrup to a Brazilian player, I'd rather say Rivelino.
Remake Draft R16 | MJJ vs EAP
- Thread starter Chesterlestreet
- Start date
Good call.
Just to shift focus to MJJs team a bit. He has built a good team, but I have certain inhibitions on his choices.
One, Lobanovsky was known for his fast vertical game (and Maslov known for short passes and gradual buildup). His team needs support of fast fullbacks able to shuttle up and down. Lahm is definitely not that type.
Secondly, Reus-Torres. From what I read on the original team, the main attacker was Blohkin with Onyshchenko in a supporting role. I certainly do not see that happening with Reus-Torres. It's be vice versa here.
harms covered this too. Reshko was the one stepping out to squeeze space with Fomenko covering behind. I do not think it suits him at all. Especially with Lahm there it creates an imbalance in the team.
One, Lobanovsky was known for his fast vertical game (and Maslov known for short passes and gradual buildup). His team needs support of fast fullbacks able to shuttle up and down. Lahm is definitely not that type.
Secondly, Reus-Torres. From what I read on the original team, the main attacker was Blohkin with Onyshchenko in a supporting role. I certainly do not see that happening with Reus-Torres. It's be vice versa here.
harms covered this too. Reshko was the one stepping out to squeeze space with Fomenko covering behind. I do not think it suits him at all. Especially with Lahm there it creates an imbalance in the team.
Can't reconcile the LB and RB choices in Edgar's team. Although they look like LCB and RCB's on paper, Cruyff played with full backs in those positions, Ferrer, Sergi, Reizeger, not CB's come FB's
Yes, you could say that. But Munoz is different - IIRC he was pretty much a CB who did occasional jobs in a wider position, so I think Edgar has done well enough there.
Ferrer is more problematic, I suppose. But Vertonghen is capable of playing as a sheer fullback, so he isn't a positively poor fit for my money.
Not ideal, but not that big of an issue - that would be my take on it. It's something which can clearly be improved on, though.
Ferrer is more problematic, I suppose. But Vertonghen is capable of playing as a sheer fullback, so he isn't a positively poor fit for my money.
Not ideal, but not that big of an issue - that would be my take on it. It's something which can clearly be improved on, though.
Pedro is a good reproduction of Stoichkov so a bit surprised to see him take Salinas role who he doesn't have much in common with. Not a lot of footballers have that combination of raw pace, good dribbling/goalscoring while working their socks off as well like Stoichkov did and I thought Pedro was a damn fine replacement there.
Pique is a good pick for Koeman even if the RCB/LCB look slightly on the defensive side in comparison to what made this setup from the dreamteam so unique. They had actual full backs in the team like some have mentioned which is why Koeman rarely got the right credit for his defensive side of things. Apart from that an inspired team and the Valdivia pick was as good as it gets. I think you nailed the midfield there as well and you can see it is a replica of the dreamteam right away.´
Harms has some great analysis of Kiev. Personally I think the overall feeling of it is that the mentality of the team is intact while some players may have missed the mark slightly in terms of mirroring individual ability. I think I will wait to vote as I am a bit torn right now.
Pique is a good pick for Koeman even if the RCB/LCB look slightly on the defensive side in comparison to what made this setup from the dreamteam so unique. They had actual full backs in the team like some have mentioned which is why Koeman rarely got the right credit for his defensive side of things. Apart from that an inspired team and the Valdivia pick was as good as it gets. I think you nailed the midfield there as well and you can see it is a replica of the dreamteam right away.´
Harms has some great analysis of Kiev. Personally I think the overall feeling of it is that the mentality of the team is intact while some players may have missed the mark slightly in terms of mirroring individual ability. I think I will wait to vote as I am a bit torn right now.
Valid points as usual.
Pedro was never the main man or had the primary goal scoring responsibility in any team he's played till now. He's always a secondary striker in a supporting role...similar to what Salinas was to Stoichkov in that team. Stoichkov was the focal point (a la Villa or Suarez now in Barcelona with Messi (Laudrup/Valdivia) orchestrating things. Martial has enough the work rate and dribbling/goal scoring ability too and I believe has a far better potential to shoulder main goal scorer responsibility.
As for the side backs, there is a YouTube video where Bakero explains their role a bit. As per Bakero/Cruyff:
- Ferrer moved left to balance out Juan Carlos cutting infield ahead of him. It was Juan Carlos who had supporting the attack role and not Ferrer. Despite being a fullback by nature, his role was a typical stopper-type LCB iirc.
- Bakero mentions that most teams played 4-4-2 against them and the main role for the 2 side backs was to step up and handle the strikers one-vs-one man-to-man with the third CB sweeping up behind. Both Brown and Vertonghen are well capable of performing this role with Pique handling Koeman's job.
They were not full backs in any attacking sense and their attacking contribution was not exemplary or above average. Imo, it is at par from what you can expect out of Brown/Vertonghen.
One has to take into consideration - also - that the blueprint is the '92 final. This is before the emergence of Ferrer/Sergi as a duo of more or less straight fullbacks.
Munoz, as mentioned above, is a different kettle. And Ferrer operates on the opposite of his usual side, as part of a more particular tactic.
It's another example of sacrificing some typical elements in order to go with a particular XI from a particular (famous) match.
Munoz, as mentioned above, is a different kettle. And Ferrer operates on the opposite of his usual side, as part of a more particular tactic.
It's another example of sacrificing some typical elements in order to go with a particular XI from a particular (famous) match.
Great point that. I will have to sit down and watch the match as I am a bit blurred from how they played later on.
Could we have links to the full matches as well in the OP or is that against the rules of the forum?
No access to YT in office, but try to see the videos on '92 CL if there are any. As Chester said, the 'dream team' of later years operated differently (Laudrup's role, presence of Romario, Sergi etc) to the blueprint I'm remaking now.
And what I said above about making sacrifices obviously pertains to this draft - what we've gone with in terms of blueprints and whatnot - not about anything Cruyff did.
But it's a point worth...pointing out. In some cases the blueprint XI will be unquestionable and obvious, in other cases there will be certain aspects missing from what you'd opt for if going for some sort of ideal representation of the system in question.
But this has been dealt with in the main thread: We wanted to use actual XIs as much as possible, from actual matches (and preferably big/famous ones) - not stylized or idealized representations (in which case we'd have ignored the real-life problem of the foreigner quota, to use the most obvious example).
But it's a point worth...pointing out. In some cases the blueprint XI will be unquestionable and obvious, in other cases there will be certain aspects missing from what you'd opt for if going for some sort of ideal representation of the system in question.
But this has been dealt with in the main thread: We wanted to use actual XIs as much as possible, from actual matches (and preferably big/famous ones) - not stylized or idealized representations (in which case we'd have ignored the real-life problem of the foreigner quota, to use the most obvious example).
It's unfortunate MJJ was busy because further information regarding his understanding of the Dynamo Kiev side would have been the welcome.
Good game @MJJ
Understand you are busy but I do miss the all action arguments from you and @VivaJanuzaj
Understand you are busy but I do miss the all action arguments from you and @VivaJanuzaj
Sorry for that for you and @MJJ , I've been having a hectic time lately so really hard to find time to research and argue properly, not to mention participate and find time to write worthwhile posts.Good game @MJJ
Understand you are busy but I do miss the all action arguments from you and @VivaJanuzaj
Congrats mate
Cheers mate. Been watching it. An interesting thing that stood out in comparison to the later version is that both the centre backs assists Koeman in seeking long balls and in general they didn't yet have that same balance of short and long passing as later on. So much risk taking with your centre backs looking to find your strikers right away with long balls and obviously the success rate is very low there. Even free-kicks usually have Koeman sending a long ball in to the area where they'll happily take the risk of instantly losing it.
The off the ball runs from the front three were incredible and the work rate to keep it up for so long while also being an important part in pressing from the front. I'd almost ideally have seen a sort of Boateng type for the RCB/LCB to keep those long ball tactics intact. Like you said the centre backs do not go on the overlap and at most just push up field out wide to then go for a creative pass.
Congrats on the victory as well and good job MJJ(and Viva?) as well.