It’s an obvious penalty. Bizarre it wasn’t given. Not even the worst VAR call of the night. That goes to how the feck they decided Bruno touched the ball en route to Cavani.
Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion
- Thread starter Annihilate Now!
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Cavani's goal was too pretty to be ruled out. The referees are misunderstood lovers of the game.
They decided they couldn't decide, so they let the on field decision stand (no offside)
Precisely
Cancelo getting sent off for being fouled by welbeck was probably the worst. I don't even think they made the ref go see the screen for this one
Apparently it was said on German TV, that VAR didn't look at the Chelsea Penalty because Mike Dean told VAR to not look at it since he was infront of the Situation. That's why Tuchel was complaining on the Sideline
Since when do on field offside calls matter?
Feels like they need a super VAR for clear and obvious VAR mistakes.
Since when don't they?
Wasn't it just a few weeks ago where VAR didn't have any angles to draw up lines on the player in question, so they had to stick with the referees decision (offside).
Stonewall penalty for Villa denied now.
It's starting to look like this round of fixtures is the week the refs chose to go all out on the sabotage of VAR...
It's starting to look like this round of fixtures is the week the refs chose to go all out on the sabotage of VAR...
Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent. 
I mean what is this ?
I mean what is this ?
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Seriously? What is going on?
And everybody is annoyed that players dive and act like they are seriously injured after every little contact when in reality if you don‘t do it referees won‘t react.
And everybody is annoyed that players dive and act like they are seriously injured after every little contact when in reality if you don‘t do it referees won‘t react.
Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
I don't think I have ever seen Peter Waton ever disagree with a decision made by the ref or VAR except in cases where VAR disagreed with the ref, in which case he always seems to side with VAR. Pointless to have him there.
Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
"Arsenal players get sent off for far less than this"
Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
Don't think there's much in that tbh.
Ok with a yellow, same way martial should have got a yellow against spurs earlier in the season.
Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
He doesn't connect with his hand or elbow, looks more like he's attempting to push rather than hit.
Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
It's clearly one of the worst push attempts known to man. That said, with Bentekes goalscoring record, it's not really surprising he can't hit the target from less than a yard.
You're right, there might even be a case for a second yellow to El Neny for play acting. The way he fake his head and neck tilting back is pure art.
Frame rate does not have any “margin of error”. For offside...They pick the first frame showing contact with ball (pass) and then compare with position of players in corresponding camera angles. Offside / Onside decision ..
The time taken to make these decisions is shocking for fans for sure.
Before you reply with 50m/s ball speed x Player 33 m/s = 38cm between frames bla bla bla.
Remeber how shocking linesmans decisions were before this technology.
I would hate to return to this.
Christ on a bike, what a trainwreck of a post. "There is no margin of error because I can't comprehend basic maths" - a very bold assertion.
Regarding the old system that was apparently so horrendous - it was about 98% accurate. VAR has taken this to a whopping 98.9%.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ing-how-many-decisions-do-officials-get-right
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42781236
Definitely hope that 0.9% is worth the ridiculous hassle of VAR in your mind.
Firstly , I never knew that before VAR , offside decisions were “about” 98% accurate. Because they are not. You have quoted a % of all decisions in a game.
Harsh to call my post a trainwreck. “Margin of error” is not basic maths and does not apply VAR.
The point of contact (pass) (first frame showing this) is taken as reference and the offside is determined from this. Simple.
The frame before would logically show no contact (ball to foot)
There could be a point in between these frames where contact is (between 0 and 2milliseconds). But frame rate is irrelevant
From the Sky piece:
Regarding margin of error - this is simple division, that's basic maths.
Tell me is this frozen at point of contact? When the ball has clearly already left Silva's foot? This is the point - current limitations in frame rate and resolution of broadcast cameras mean that millimeter-specific decisions at the other end are farcical as they're completely within the margin of error. VAR is claiming to be objectively correct yet there is no basis for this objectivity when they literally have the VAR pick what he thinks is the best frame for when a pass was hit. It's a completely subjective decision that has not actually improved the game in any meaningful way and has in fact detracted from it hugely.
Why is it not the point that the ball makes contact with his foot?
Also “The assistant referee makes on average 50 decisions each game; 45 of these are pure offside judgements, with four of these resulting in offside flags. Their accuracy? Again, a staggering 98 per cent.”
What does that even mean? 98% of 45 offside judgements would mean 44 correct?
How do you know they were correct ? Meaningless numbers. I can’t even work out how they came up with 98% ?
Again, nothing to do with frame rate. Perhaps you are confused with resolution. You could have 1million frames per second but no better result.
If your claim is that whoever is making VAR decisions involves bias and “subjective” picking of frames the maybe the snapshot of video should be made public and so transparent.
Because very obviously that ball is not spherical in the frame used by the VAR? Which means it's after the point of contact? If that's the best frame available due to limitations in frame rate then it's hardly an objective system is it? Obviously this is distinct from resolution, which would better show when the ball has left the foot. The laws state that it's at point of contact though, and plainly 50 FPS isn't adequate to determine that accurately. The frame is chosen by the VAR - who else do you think is making that call? The lines are done by software but the actual frame on which they're superimposed is determined by the VAR.
And yes...not sure why you're struggling with the notion that on average a linesman might make one error per game? Obviously they know they're correct because this is a retrospective analysis where they've gone back and watched the footage. Is this a genuinely confusing concept?
That means they made a wrong call for every 4 times they raise their flag. Now that makes it looks a bit worse than the 98%. Also what do you count as a non offside call? where do you draw the line between what is a correct non offside call and what is not an offside call? Depending on where you put it'll raise or decrease that % of successful call. You could say that every pass that isn't offside and isn't called offside is a correct call.
No it doesn't. That's the silliest way to possibly think about it - you're not considering the times they decide to not raise their flag - that's literally as important.
But I did. It happens every time there is a pass and they don't raise their flag which obviously would make anyone have a very high % of calls right. Now how many of the actually difficult calls they get right would be a much better stat. There's not 45 close offside calls on average in a football game. It's just nice stat to make refereeing looks better than it is.
You say VAR only added 0.9% but VAR only looks at it if there has been a goal/pen/red card. If you go with the 50 decisions a game that's almost 1 goal or other big decision every 2 games while there's only 2.68 goals per game.
You say VAR only added 0.9% but VAR only looks at it if there has been a goal/pen/red card. If you go with the 50 decisions a game that's almost 1 goal or other big decision every 2 games while there's only 2.68 goals per game.
You seem to not understand how aggregated data work mate. Also you're completely ignoring the fact that assistants have been told they have to fundamentally change the way they officiate the game - not captured in all of this is how many incorrect free kicks or corners or throws are given because the assistant has been told to default to keeping his flag down.
Also there have been 126 VAR interventions from 370 matches to date - 1 every 3 matches more or less.
Aren't they supposed to wait before they raise it and not to not raise it at all? They'd raise it if they believe there was an offside when the ball goes out of play.
That's what they're supposed to do but it certainly hasn't been happening consistently. There have been some staggeringly egregious corners given - I could be wrong but I believe Sheffield United got an appalling one against you lot in the last match.
He only keeps his flag down if he could be offside and leading to a goal chance. If the play slows down the flag goes up.
If the linesman keeps their flag down then theyre telling you they dont know if its offside or not
Since you insist on insults -
It is “Obviously” genuinely confusing how they watch footage and can retrospectively calculate errors. What footage ? VAR ?
What is “ the notion that on average a linesman might make one error per game” ? I never claimed to know any statistics on this. I only know VAR is an improvement. To add again, I hate it taking so long for decisions and celebrating a goal is now overshadowed with watching ref to see if VAR is involved.
Introducing some kind of offset to “fix” is totally flawed. Not sure why you are struggling with this. Perhaps you could explain how this would work?
Really!
You think “Linesmen are told to keep flag down on corners and throwins”?
Is this a joke ?
What are you talking about? A third party has watched footage back and determined when linesmen did or didn't make errors to study this definitively. Why are you getting hung up on the concept of someone watching match footage to spot errors?
I never said anything about introducing "some kind of offset". The point is that frame rate is a limiting factor and makes the whole thing pointless. You can't have millimeter-specific decisions made at one end whilst having a set of options for when a foot hit a ball based on frame rate. It makes the entire thing arbitrary and freeze framing should be binned until there are high frame rate cameras that are mobile at either end. Until then, the notion that VAR is somehow objective is a joke.
You know that VAR is an improvement - decision accuracy has gone from 98% to 98.9%. Is that worth all the bullshit associate with VAR? I'd suggest that it isn't even remotely close to being worthwhile, and this is notwithstanding potential improvements that VAR could be used for (e.g. being used on normal speed to quickly check whether a decision is obviously wrong).
Mate you need to work on your reading comprehension. Linesmen are being told to keep their flags down on offside decisions so that VAR can retrospectively arbitrate - this is not a matter of dispute. If play doesn't result in a goal scoring situation, teams are often getting unjustified corners and throws that would have been called back for offside pre-VAR. Yes lineos are meant to flag after the fact but it simply isn't happening at the same rate it used to.
If you going to simply insult and spout drivel then crack on.
You said , I quote , “not captured in all of this is how many corners or throws are given because the assistant has been told to default to keeping his flag down” . You know this is laughable right ? I think you mean offsides only?
On 98% linesman accuracy by reviewing footage. Again, what footage do they have that is better than VAR to review millimetre decisions. Such a flawed thing to say. Sure they can review footage where is is 1 or 2 yards clear mistake but not otherwise.
And you've taken a quote completely out of context. Congratulations. Perhaps consider reading what I was responding to before making a horse's arse of yourself?
No one said that the footage used to review is better than VAR - where on earth are you getting this from? The point is that before VAR as far as anyone could tell, decisions were right 98% of the time. With VAR, decisions are right 98.9% of the time as far as anyone can tell. If you think that a 0.9% gain in decision-making is worth the fundamental changes VAR has brought into the game then so be it and I hope you enjoy your spreadsheets.
Also, this notion that VAR is accurate in terms of ruling on millimeter decisions is fundamentally misguided - going back to the issue of frame rate that's apparently sailed over your head.
Not sure why you keep using thos bs stats while at the same time correctly saying yourself we don't have the technology to accurately tell what was actually offside and what isn't.
Agreed
Can somebody explain me, why that goal from Bale counted after the handball from Kane?
The rule is pretty clear before scoring a goal. Just has to touch the hand and it's pretty obvious.
Just because it's Golden Boy Kane?
The rule is pretty clear before scoring a goal. Just has to touch the hand and it's pretty obvious.
Just because it's Golden Boy Kane?