RedCafe Cricket Draft Final RI vs MBR

[KM]

Welcome, Ladies and Gentlemen to the RedCafe Cricket Draft's final. After two weeks of blood, sweat and tears we've finally got two worthy finalist.

RedIndian vs MightbeRight.

Mightberight's writeup

Spoiler

A.Cook - The boy wonder. Perhaps already the best batsman England has ever produced, perhaps he more than anybody has been the spearhead of England's recent golden era.

C.Gayle - Gayle force's impact on the West Indies test side should not be underestimated. Averaging well over 50 in the last three years before his exile, the man has blossomed into an aggressive and effective test opening batsman who can produce big scores on a whim. Just recently he returned to the Windies test side with a 200+ runs performance. Also a very useful spinner.

R.Ponting - One of the toughest competitors the cricketing world has ever seen, and also one of the most gifted batsmen. Average of 53, 41 centuries ... just the start of a jaw-dropping middle order.

B.Lara – He’s smashed Australia, he’s smashed South Africa. He’s certainly smashed England, and he’s even smashed records that he smashed previously. A living legend of cricket.

J. Kallis - The jewel of South Africa. How many innings has this man glued together? Averaging over 57 with the bat and 32 with the ball, this man will go down as one of the all time greats - but you don't need me to tell you that.

S.Fleming (C) - Averaging over 40, it is hard to express enough how galvanizing an effect Fleming was over the years for a faltering New Zealand. According to Shane Warne, "the best greatest captain he has ever seen." Not just a scorer of big runs, Fleming uses his superior cricketing brain to his advantage to eek out more wickets and less runs as a marshall on the field. With my bowling line-up already, opposing batsmen have nowhere to hide.

M.Prior (wk) - Matty Prior, finally the wicketkeeper to replace Alec Stewart. A batting average of 43, Prior has turned England's quality batting order into a deep one. There's never any fear when Prior comes to the crease, as his 6 centuries and 22 50s in 55 matches attest to. He does not have a single weak spot against any test side, with notable innings scores for each one. His wicket keeping has also improved immeasurably; quite simply the best wicketkeeper today.

S.Pollock - What can you say about this man? A zipping seamer who could be a menace with the bat, taking the DNA of both his Father and Uncle to become one of the best all-rounders to ever grace the game. A bowling average of 23, he would have made any side in the world in his prime if even he were just pure bowler. Deadly accurate, affording no breathing space to the most refined of batsmen. An average of 32 with the bat, he's another player for your bowlers to huff and puff with against my deep batting order.

G.Swann - Burst onto the scene in late 2008 by taking two test wickets in one over in India, giving them a taste of their own medicine. Has gone on to take 188 wickets since then, and he hasn't even been in the game for four years. Averaging 29 with the ball, his economy rate is just as much a boon as his destructive innings, compiling an extraordinary hitlist in Sri Lanka earlier this year. Best in the game and an average of 22 with the bat as my number 9!

S.Akhtar - To face Shoaib, the fastest bowler alive, must be a frightening experience. Only a career marred in controversy and lack of fitness has us reluctant to elevate him to the pantheon of all time greats. But the speed demon took 170 odd wickets in just 46 tests, culminating in an ever thrilling but ever too short career. Striiiiiiiiiike.

C.Ambrose - "Curtly talk to no man." He lets the ball do the talking. There isn't a better fast bowler in the draft, truly. A mammoth of a man with his penchant for bounce. And when some of the pace left him later in his career, his intelligent seaming allowed no decline to his bowling. His average? Under 21. But it hardly needs to be said, given his legend and even his ghost as the last great pacer that haunts the current West Indies side.

Twelfth men - J. Rhodes, C. McMillan, A. Prince

RI's writeup

RI's Spinning Dervishes​

Well I can’t call them Bastards any more. Too many nice guys in there. Cringey new name but appropriate. Two greater spinners have never bowled together. And how complimentary they are – legspin and offspin, right angle turn from one and unerring accuracy from the other, flight and guile from one and endless varations from the other. 1400 wickets between the two of them. The world’s not ready for this.

Bowling at Stretch’s team is going to be one hell of a job. Luckily I have one hell of an attack. Apologies to Akram and Ambrose but I have the greatest fast bowler of the era in my team in McGrath. He’ll get me the initial breakthrough. That middle order might make some knees tremble but McGrath, Murali and Kumble have seen a few. Kumble’s taken Ponting 7 times in 17. McGrath’s had Lara’s number 15 times in 24 games. Murali’s snaffled Kallis 6 times in 10. Once the two of my spinners get bowling together in combo, it’ll be like a mongoose and a cobra. They’ll get to the jugular and won’t let go.

Batting wise while I don’t have the middle-order of mbr, I have more than enough to give the spin-meisters plenty to work with. Smith and Lamb will hunker down to see us through Ambrose and Pollock. Once the attack’s a little worn down, Tendulkar will greet Akhtar with a towering six over third man and the middle order will settle down to milking Swann and Kallis. Plus there’s always the X-factor of Sehwag. One game in 5, he’ll tear you apart.

The way I see this, it’ll be a little like the CL final last year. Mbr’s team will come in with all the flash and fire feeling all arrogant, Murali and Kumble will stifle the feck out of them and knock them down one after the other. We’ll need a little bit of luck to go our way and Smith will have to win the toss 3 times out of 5 to give the deadly duo use of a fourth innings pitch. We’ll win it ugly but we’ll fecking win it. McGrath, Smith, Streak, Lamb and Kumble wouldn’t have it any other way. Dujon’s never played in a losing series and he’s not about to fecking start now.

Spoiler

The XI

1. Graeme Smith (c)
2. Virender Sehwag
3. Allan Lamb
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Michael Clarke
6. Aravinda de Silva
7. Jeff Dujon (wk)
8. Heath Streak
9. Anil Kumble (vc)
10. Glenn McGrath
11. Muthiah Muralitharan

I think my team’s very nicely balanced with everyone in the position they’re best suited to.

Batting

Opening – Smith and Sehwag are easily the best opening partnership in the draft. Smith (8000 runs at 50) is probably the best opener of the last decade while Sehwag (8100 at 51) is the most explosive batsman in world cricket. Nice left and right combination as well.

Middle Order - At 3 I’ve got Allan Lamb – mainstay of the English middle order for a decade. Then comes the deluge. Sachin Tendulkar has 15,000 runs at an unbelievable 55, stroke players Clarke(6000 at 49) and deSilva (6300 at 43). They’re both quality players of spin and importantly for me in the middle get their runs quickly.

Lower Order Okay its 350 for 4 and you’ve made it past my devastating opening partnership and my formidable middle order. Can you breathe a sigh of relief? No...because Dujon at 7 is a strokeplayer averaging 32 with 5 centuries, Streak almost an allrounders with an average of 23. Anil Kumble at 9 has a test century and 5 fifties and was the usual nightwatchman for India. Poor McGrath and Murali are my rabbits.

Bowling

Glenn McGrath…I’m not even going to talk about except to say 563 wickets at 21 point fecking 6. Heath Streak was a one-man attack for Zimbabwe and a superb swing bowler with 216 wickets at 28. Then the piece de reistance – Murali and Kumble. The four of them together have 2200 wickets. I've decided I can live with 4 bowlers. Murali and Kumble will hog 70% of the overs anyway and I have 4 part-timers all decent quality – Clarke, Sehwag, Tendulkar and Aravinda. feck’s sake, even Smith has a few wickets.

One thing you’ll note about the bowlers is that they won’t shirk long spells. There’s not one among them that needs to be mothered and bowled in short spells.

Dujon’s one of the all-time great keepers and an incredible athlete.

Smith’s captain and I have a bunch to choose from for Vice-Captain. Streak, Clarke, Tendulkar and deSilva were all possibilities. I went with Kumble in the end because I think he’ll be a perfect complement for Smith’s aggression and impulsiveness.

 

[KM]

Might take some stick for this, but I genuinely like RI's team more than MBR. Murali and Kumble in tandem is a wonderful thing to see, both are capable of bowling long, long spells. Plus he also has McGrath who's probably better than any of MBR's pace bowlers.

The middle order is strong of MBR but I'm still going for RI.

 

[Interval]

Aravinda at 6 is just a waste. He is a stroke player and likes the new ball.

 

[crappycraperson]

I thought about waiting to vote but will be honest.. can't seem me voting any other way here. Lamb and Streak stick out like a bit in this finale. RI's team is too dependent on the openers to blunt MBR's attack and one of them is Sehwag.... up against Pollock and Ambrose at their peak...

Also as good as those two spinners, if RI's team has to bowl first, he will sorely miss a third pacer. Not to mention his second pacer is above average in context of the match.

 

[Interval]

I thought about waiting to vote but will be honest.. can't seem me voting any other way here. Lamb and Streak stick out like a bit in this finale. RI's team is too dependent on the openers to blunt MBR's attack and one of them is Sehwag.... up against Pollock and Ambrose at their peak...

Also as good as those two spinners, if RI's team has to bowl first, he will sorely miss a third pacer. Not to mention his second pacer is above average in context of the match.

So does Swann.

 

[crappycraperson]

So does Swann.

Good point.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Swann is a better player than Streak and Lamb. The latter is the one that really sticks out like a sore thumb IMO. Swann's role is clearly there to plug a hole as Pollock, Ambrose, Akhtar and then the best allrounder in the last 10 years in Kallis come into play. Either way MBR has a seemingly back up for his deficiencies. If Swann underperforms, his number 5 bowler is Kallis. If Streak underperforms, you could see Murali and Kumble having to bowl a lot early on.

 

[Red-Indian]

Hey we're away. Good luck mbr.

Okay now that the pleasantries are out of The way, let's bitch about his team.

The easy target first - bowling.

People talk about the inconsistency of batsmen like Sehwag but what about bowlers like Akhtar. He spent most of his early career when he was bowling fast with averages in the 30s. He only improved that when he started bowling within himself but then needed friendly pitches to be effective. For example, he bowled 32 overs for 120 and no wicket when Sehwag tore the Pakistani bowlers a new one en route to 309 off 375.

Swann's a decent little spinner to have now that the golden age of spinning's gone but if Sachin, Sehwag, Aravinda and Clarke take a liking to him (and they will), he's quite likely to end up none for 150.

Stretch's as dependant on his 2 as I am on mine. The difference is my two will bowl 70% of the overs. So a tonking is out of the question. We'll throttle and frustrate the likes of Ponting and Lara before knocking them over.

 

[crappycraperson]

I don't think you will be throttling Pointing and Lara. They both have excellent strike rates for tests. They will either score or get out.

If you had Warne and Murali as twin spin merchants, would be different. I personally don't rate Kumble as highly as most. Took a long time to make an impact on foreign pitches for starters.

You were right about Lara vs Mcgrath though, Lara defo struggled against him big time but by same token IIRC Lara plonked Murali a lot.

 

[crappycraperson]

Also problem with Sehwag is that he will have to survive Ambrose to get to Akhtar. You need doggedness of Steve Waugh to survive Curtly bowling in his pomp, something he does not have an ounce of.

 

[Red-Indian]

I don't think you will be throttling Pointing and Lara. They both have excellent strike rates for tests. They will either score or get out.

If you had Warne and Murali as twin spin merchants, would be different. I personally don't rate Kumble as highly as most. Took a long time to make an impact on foreign pitches for starters.

You were right about Lara vs Mcgrath though, Lara defo struggled against him big time but by same token IIRC Lara plonked Murali a lot.

Throttle them enough to frustrate them into getting out is what i want to do.

Kumble didn't didn't start great on foreign pitches but got a lot better as he got older and realised his strengths and weaknesses. He was devastating in that Australia tour in 03-04.

 

[Red-Indian]

Swann is a better player than Streak and Lamb. The latter is the one that really sticks out like a sore thumb IMO. Swann's role is clearly there to plug a hole as Pollock, Ambrose, Akhtar and then the best allrounder in the last 10 years in Kallis come into play. Either way MBR has a seemingly back up for his deficiencies. If Swann underperforms, his number 5 bowler is Kallis. If Streak underperforms, you could see Murali and Kumble having to bowl a lot early on.

Kallis has a fair claim to greatest all rounder of all time not just the last 10 years (oops!). Bowlers his level though are no threat in the context of a greats test series. Average of 32.5. Not a lot better than Michael Clarke's.

Bowlers like Murali and Kumble are used to bowling a lot early on. They did it plenty for their national teams given some of the dross they were surrounded with.

 

[mightberight]

Can someone post my write up from within the cricket thread? Im at work

 

[crappycraperson]

RI's team is ever so romantic, but with all due respect I don't think it will be matched by effectiveness. Spinners are a risk on a pitch where the ball won't turn or make any kind of movement whatsoever, which is why two fast bowlers is, in my opinion, a big mistake. It's also true that spinners become more effective as the wicket wears, and I suspect Lara and co will tonk them all over the park if they're used too much early on - EVEN the great spinners, as they'll be dealing with great batsmen.

And let's be honest, it's not as if Ponting, Lara and Kallis have ever struggled against Sri Lanka, India or Australia (obviously not for Ricky!) at their peaks. Yes they'll get out eventually, but usually not before they make a century or at least a 50.

But I'd be confident that in ANY circumstances, and I don't care if he adds Younis, Warne, Akram, Hadlee and Holding to his attack, that a top 5 with my calibre are going to score a lot of runs before we even get to Fleming, Prior, Pollock and Swann.

And if we're talking about batting depth, RI's is a paddling pool while mine is Olympic-sized. The difference between Pollock and Streak at 8 is stark, while Swann is a more accomplished batsman than Kumble. The same case applies with the two sides' batting quality; the contrast that sums it up quite eloquently is my Ponting at 3, and his Lamb ... lambs to the slaughter, perhaps.

My bowling attack may not have the utter star power (JUST) of RI's, but I think it's far more balanced and in truth, far more venomous. Pollock's line and length is bullseye over after over, Ambrose's bounce will find an edge time after time, Akhtar will knock your head off, Swann will hamper run scoring and take crucial wickets, and Kallis will swing RI's dreams further and further away from him. McGrath was a great but can't do it on his own as a fast bowler - I've got two greats, a should-have-been-but-nearly great and an all-round great.

So he's got Streak - competent but sticks out like a sore thumb in this match - and who as a 5th bowler? Michael Clarke??

So, who will win? RI talks about my team being arrogant, and I'll take that as a compliment. We know we're the best in the competition and we're not about to lose this final. It'll be interesting and there'll be a few minor slip ups with that unusual bowling attack, but I think I have more than enough quality to take the series.

..

 

[crappycraperson]

The bowling this is an interesting one.. if you had to pick 4 bowlers out of the lot then it would go something like..

McGrath
Ambrose
Pollock
Murali

so it seems even but Kumble > Akhtar and Swann = Steak ?

MBR does have Kallis

Should be mentioned that RI was one of those who banged on about need for 5 bowlers in tests. He is changing his tune a bit now after dropping his all rounder..

 

[mightberight]

And can I just say that Clarke has bowled 2000 balls and taken 29 wiclets, while Kallis has bowled 19k, tookk 278 wickets, and has 5 five wicket hauls...there is no comparison!

 

[Stretch]

mmmm, a lot of people under rating Heath Streak here I see.

Streak = Swann? Seriously? A man that single handed carried a Zimbabwean attack? Come now lads...

 

[NM]

Will explain my vote later - off to work now. I like MBR's team, but have gone with RI, which I will explain later.

 

[Red-Indian]

mmmm, a lot of people under rating Heath Streak here I see.

Streak = Swann? Seriously? A man that single handed carried a Zimbabwean attack? Come now lads...

This when Zimbabwe weren't shit.

216 wickets at 28 in just 65 matches - I can't believe people don't rate him. If I had place him somewhere, he'd be on the level of Gillespie, Asif etc. Clearly not up there with the likes of McGrath, Ambrose, Pollock etc. but in the layer below. More than 2 wickets every innings he played folks.

 

[Red-Indian]

The bowling this is an interesting one.. if you had to pick 4 bowlers out of the lot then it would go something like..

McGrath
Ambrose
Pollock
Murali

so it seems even but Kumble > Akhtar and Swann = Steak ?

MBR does have Kallis

Should be mentioned that RI was one of those who banged on about need for 5 bowlers in tests. He is changing his tune a bit now after dropping his all rounder..

Nah if you remember right, I was one of those who said it was fine to have 4 bowlers if they were quality. I had a bit of an argument with Interval defending mightberight's attack (when he didn't have Kallis) and compared it with Australia's 90s attack. And my attack is nothing if not quality. Each of the four have carried countries on their backs.

You can't rate Pollock over Murali surely. Murali's likely the greatest spinner there ever was. 800 wickets at 22.7. Pollock's not in the top 10 of quicks.

 

[Stretch]

This when Zimbabwe weren't shit.

216 wickets at 28 in just 65 matches - I can't believe people don't rate him. If I had place him somewhere, he'd be on the level of Gillespie, Asif etc. Clearly not up there with the likes of McGrath, Ambrose, Pollock etc. but in the layer below. More than 2 wickets every innings he played folks.

Streak at his best was pacey and swung the ball pretty ferociously. To say he's on the level of 'Swann' is an insult to the man, no offense to Swann.

He's not Donald nor Ambrose, but he was his team's main strike bowler and could bowl loooooong spells.

I'm still undecided though. Close game this.

 

[mightberight]

Swann's average is only a point higher and hes a spinner who usually have inflated averages. I think Swanns getting a lot of underappreciation, probably because he's such a recent player and SA recently demolished England. Nearly two hundred wickets in 4 years is class - hes comparable to Streak for sure

 

[Varun]

Should be mentioned that RI was one of those who banged on about need for 5 bowlers in tests. He is changing his tune a bit now after dropping his all rounder..

With 2 absolutely top spinners in his 11, i dont really see the need for a 5th bowler tbh. He'l almost always have quality bowlers at both ends.

Tough one this..

 

[FlawlessThaw]

This when Zimbabwe weren't shit.

216 wickets at 28 in just 65 matches - I can't believe people don't rate him. If I had place him somewhere, he'd be on the level of Gillespie, Asif etc. Clearly not up there with the likes of McGrath, Ambrose, Pollock etc. but in the layer below. More than 2 wickets every innings he played folks.

Swann has a higher wickets per innings average despite not being the spearhead of England's attack. And has MBR has pointed out their averages aren't far from each other either.

They are definitely comparable players.

 

[Red-Indian]

And can I just say that Clarke has bowled 2000 balls and taken 29 wiclets, while Kallis has bowled 19k, tookk 278 wickets, and has 5 five wicket hauls...there is no comparison!

4 fifth bowlers - Clarke, Sehwag, Sachin and Aravinda. 150 wickets between them. They'll do nicely.

They won't get too many overs though. All my four top bowlers hate giving up the ball...you'll have to prise it out of their cold, dead hands.

They'll bowl with fractured jaws, dying wives and countries collapsing around them.

 

[mightberight]

The only things that will be collapsing, RI, are the rickety roofs of cricket grounds as Gayle, Ponting and Lara crush balls for 6! The point is that your part time bowlers are nothing like wicket threats, while Kallis with nearly 300 adds anothet string to my already-loaded bow.

 

[Red-Indian]

Smith's won the toss mbr so it's no feat to collapse the roofs after Sehwag and Sachin have peppered them in advance .

If we're going to talk about wickets to the bow, i'd advise you to step back and reflect in awe because my boys have 2200 of them between the four of them. Two fecking thousand and two hundred. No bowling attack in the history of cricket's had that many and I say that without bothering to research.

 

[mightberight]

I think Kumble is overrated. On his day he was sublime, but if you put into perspective that Swann's average is the same - and Kumble's home was in spin-friendly India - his career is impressive in its longevity more than anything else.

If Swann had started test cricket bit earlier he'd probably get a lot more respect.

 

[Red-Indian]

I think Kumble is overrated. On his day he was sublime, but if you put into perspective that Swann's average is the same - and Kumble's home was in spin-friendly India - his career is impressive in its longevity more than anything else.

If Swann had started test cricket bit earlier he'd probably get a lot more respect.

Kumble started sensationally. In his first 6 years of cricket, he had 138 wickets at 26. Injuries and stuff brought that down but he was a genuine great. Swann needs to do a lot more before he's mentioned in the same breath.

 

[Stretch]

Whilst I feel most here are under rating Streak, and whilst you do have a really good team and bowling attack and I wanted you to win, I just can't vote for you RI. Not with mbr having Ponting, Kallis and Lara. Those 3 are in the top 10 of all time in terms of batsmen and he's got a good enough bowling line up to remove yours over a 5 match series. RI, you were probably one great batsman away from winning this IMO. A Dravid would've done wonders to your team. Sorry mate, his team is really the best. Even if the margin is small. Was not an easy choice at all.

 

[mightberight]

Whilst I feel most here are under rating Streak, and whilst you do have a really good team and bowling attack and I wanted you to win, I just can't vote for you RI. Not with mbr having Ponting, Kallis and Lara. Those 3 are in the top 10 of all time in terms of batsmen and he's got a good enough bowling line up to remove yours over a 5 match series. RI, you were probably one great batsman away from winning this IMO. A Dravid would've done wonders to your team. Sorry mate, his team is really the best. Even if the margin is small. Was not an easy choice at all.

 

[Red-Indian]

No worries Stretch...thanks for taking your time to think about it.

He's my semi-final buddy mbr. We semi-finalists hang together.

 

[OB]

still waiting for Aldo's well written thoughts

 

[Red-Indian]

Come on people...believe.

Just look at the current India-NZ test. Poor quality spinners wiping out poor quality batsmen. Now multiply both sides by 10 and you'll what damage my boys can do on a pitch that does a bit.

 

[Interval]

I think Kumble is overrated. On his day he was sublime, but if you put into perspective that Swann's average is the same - and Kumble's home was in spin-friendly India - his career is impressive in its longevity more than anything else.

If Swann had started test cricket bit earlier he'd probably get a lot more respect.

You're really stretching here if you're comparing Swann to Kumble. I think its the other way round. You're overrating Swann. Hugely. He'll get taken apart in India against players who can actually play spin well.

 

[zing]

Come on people...believe.

Just look at the current India-NZ test. Poor quality spinners wiping out poor quality batsmen. Now multiply both sides by 10 and you'll what damage my boys can do on a pitch that does a bit.

Cook, Gayle, Lara, Ponting, Kallis a touch better than McCullum, Guptill, Flynn, Ross Taylor and Williamson..

 

[NM]

Cook, Gayle, Lara, Ponting, Kallis a touch better than McCullum, Guptill, Flynn, Ross Taylor and Williamson..

But Kumble and Murali are also a "touch" better than Ashwin and Ojha,.

 

[zing]

But Kumble and Murali are also a "touch" better than Ashwin and Ojha,.

my point was that the diff between NZ batsmen and these batsmen is a lot more than the difference between these spinners and Kumble/Murali.

NZ batsmen are terrible

 

[NM]

Aldo votes for Red Indian. Below are his thoughts:

Hi, sorry to bother you but could you please pass on my vote? My vote goes to Red Indian in this one.

On first look, mbr's team looks star studded but if you look more into individual match ups, you would start to think otherwise. Lara is obviously the pillar of that batting order, and he has been troubled by McGrath a lot. Same goes for Kallis who found it hard to handle Glen. Ponting, who has struggled vs Harbhajan so much, would only find it more difficult against a much better off spinner in Murali. So the strength of the team, the middle order are all facing their nemesis over the years. As for Cook and Gayle, they have been very effective over the years but it's difficult to see them making much of a difference here. Not more than Sehwag and Smith anyway. So the point is, as great as that batting order is, the odds are against them given the bowling line up.

Now the other scenario, Ambrose has never dismissed Sachin in 5 games. Pollock, has given him a bother but nothing that should worry Red Indian. Viru, to be honest would be a bunny in front of Ambrose, but he still carries that unpredictability. Moreover, if Smith occupies Ambrose, Viru can take Akhtar to the cleaners and he has the record for it. It's completely opposite to the other team, as none of the MBR's bowlers have a history of dominating RI's main batsmen. That is one of the main reason I see the likes of Smith and Sachin doing well with good support from Lamb and Aravinda.

Dujon is the far superior wicket keeper and would make a brilliant combo with McGrath. Also, if you say RI's bowling line up is shallow, it still has quality while mbr has depth but fall short in quality with Swann and Akhtar. If you look at the key bowlers, they will be McGrath, Ambrose, Anil, Murali and Pollock. 3-2 in RI's favour.

 

[mightberight]

Ponting struggled so much against Murali that he only has an average of 57 against Sri Lanka! Lara wasn't just facing McGrath, he was also against the best bowling attack of all time and frequently having to carrying his side through it, and the same goes with Kallis who again has excellent averages through out that great Aussie era. And better yet in this match, there isn't a fearsome trio of quicks.